Great Weapon Fighter
Determination gain will no longer be subject to variance. This will make Determination gain more normalized."
Sounds good to me
Mark: Mark effects will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Awesome!
Roar: This power has been fixed to no longer silence opponents for 2 seconds. Instead it correctly interrupts power usage. If a power is successfully interrupted, that power will be locked out for 2 seconds. This effect will no longer pierce CC immunity. Roar will no longer Root players for 2 seconds.
Much needed!
Takedown: This power now deals ~30% less damage.
Takedown: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
I am fine with this AS LONG AS the stun is long enough.
Unstoppable: Unstoppable now grants 5-10% damage resist when activated (down from 25-50%)
This is frankly just stupid. This just killed the class for PVP. Sentinels already delt no damage, Destroyers were ONLY somewhat tanky due to roar stun + Unstoppable recovery heal. I could see a nerf of maybe 20-40% (down from 25-50%) but this is ridiculous guys... With the other changes, I actually think the GWF would be fairly inline with whats intended... This just killed GWFs in PVP.
Sentinel's Aegis Feat: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
Unstoppable Recovery Feat: The heal from this feat will now properly respect healing depression.
So you removed the added defense which was pretty attractive to make Unstoppable do what it currently does? Nobody even had issues killing Sentinels on Mod 3...
Guys seriously, I have NEVER been one to shy away from talking about my own class and own enchants need a re-balance. But all of these nerfs are WAY over the top.
Already changing takedown+roar+unstoppable recovery + threat rush was already probably more than enough to hurt the class.. Think of it this way.
YOu gave NO survival mechanics to the GWF now. Unstoppable was the only thing that kept them alive because sprint is utterly worthless in dodging attacks. Maybe change sprint over to a teleport/roll/escape mechanic and MAYBE this will work, but with ZERO ways to avoid taking damage and zero ways to even chain attacks off, its going to make the class dead.
Also, I like the Threat Rush change but in order to make this work, there needs to be a "guarantee" it connects. Because right now you rubberband SO badly that its not even reliable - which is why the ONLY way to catch people was a ranged stun/prone (roar or FLS) followed by takedown+Indom Battle Strike (IBS).
Thats the combo that made people mad because you cant avoid roar really. Nerfing roar, nerfing threat rush, nerfing takedown are all fine, but it should stay with that...
i totally agree ...GWF are useless...may be u moderators got this feedback when a GWF who is heavily equppied with gear kills whole team in pvp..but look at this ,,,to have unstoppable it requires for him to take dmg, and unstoppable animation is not instant like blink or dodge,u guys previously nerfed GWF healing while unstoppable gaining him temporary hit ppoints which is quite useless , to catch a opponent GWF uses sprint, but what escape option he has,,,if its a tanking ability its easy for a cw, hr or tr to bring him down..have u guys sword master feat is totally useless now in pvp..u gave cw high cc options, 3 blinks, and aoe skills, u gave tr permanent stealth , 2 dodges , one dmg immune skill, hr omg this one is awesome, roots targets even they dodge , gwf gets rooted in unstoppable , 5 dodges when every encounter against him can be avoided and most of all a range attacker, with the kind of gear provided he is defensive enough and does hugh dmg, GF shielded and prone options ofcourse,,now please judge the possiblity as ur system queses us for pvp...a 10k GWF gets queued against 15k of anyone of these toons..so what options does he have. may be u guys got a opinion when top GWF 's performed in pvp. but try to judge on low level or trying to gear up toons .
GWF are never ever powerful. its only the final gear and fully enchant ...if u have a hr, tr or cw of 15k with fully geared and lvl 10 enchants ,,one of them can easily take down a GWF of 16k..as u can see swordmaster feat is useless in pvp, now iron vanguard is also useless,,seriously nerfing the GWF unstoppable ,,has'nt it got nerfed enough already, temporary hit points, now dmg reduction almost 80% of original, No man .. u moderators cannot decide pvp and pve as a same..besides ur que system is so pathetic..a 10k toon gets qued against 15k...so other toon have enough options to survive but what about GWF, cannot blink, cannot dodge, cannot swift, cannot block, dat was the reason unstoppable is used to have some survivability for enough time to run out of battle but the others have enought abilities,,,ranger, cw and tr ..besides to activate unstoppable it requires to take dmg, and its animation is so slow when compared to blink or dodge...please think again ,,its a request
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited July 2014
It's dissapointing how a class that was well positioned got nerfed to the ground, the other classes are receiving a lot of buffs while the GWF is just terrible now, only viable for PvE but according to what I've seen lately, lower DPS than HR and SW even if they have worse gear.
Werent you the one who claimed at other player "ey!! i hope DEVs listen to you! it will mean more buffs for me due good players will adapt to the new system" when we were talking about "how unviable went GWFs for both PvE and PvP????
(sorry, i know this is O.T. but i think both his post and mine must stay here, not on the other thread)
Good to see that someone is watching every step I make, I feel like I have fan club, thanks.
Btw, you are wrong. From a PvE PoV, I'm just saying that the other classes are receiving bigger buffs than those received by the GWF, HR and SW are dealing much more dmg than the "Destroyer". I don't think I've ever mentioned that the GWF is unviable for PvE, when I mention that is "terrible" is because other characters with worse equipment are able to outdps you, that's not right.
It's dissapointing how a class that was well positioned got nerfed to the ground, the other classes are receiving a lot of buffs while the GWF is just terrible now, only viable for PvE but according to what I've seen lately, lower DPS than HR and SW even if they have worse gear.
True
GWF destroyer is not the destroyer any more ,Power rangers will take her place .
The only thing can make gwf better is her survivability but this was taken from us also our dps is decreased by huge amount .
Why is HR better cuz all hr skill have auto target not effected by laag rollback rubberbanding.
So the role of good dps taken away from GWF destro cuz PVP balance i dont think this balance.
I can understand SW cuz he have nothing to protect her self but HR ?
I currently suck with sprint, so can't comment on this much; always mainly used this for getting from point A to point B and following up on an assault before.
I've been trying for the past 10 minutes or so with another GWF to interrupt our IBS, so far haven't succeeded, its ~1s casting time. This also voids all of our prones since they are now exclusively in our dailies. The GWF I was testing with also tried on a CW and the interrupt wasn't even working for him.
Only semi-valid option since it has SOME range, but you HAVE to be IV for it.
You can't even really use roar since its now supposed to put the power on a 3s cooldown (going off of memory, but one of the dev's said the cooldown it should go to) when it happens (completely negligible). Avalanche of Steel is an option due to the immunity frames, but, again, its a daily so its not always an option and we forfeit a more useful daily; its more of an "oh ****" daily as far as PvP goes. There is also Mighty Leap which is literally the ONLY option we have outside of Avalanche to "avoid" damage with a dodge, but we forfeit a more useful power that can actually do damage or give us some cc in PvP.
I agree that Takedown needed its prone to be removed, the devs said they want prone to be a somewhat more special effect, not for some skill that can be used every 6 secs.
That doesn't mean that the GWF needs some way to defend himself, but no takedown prone anymore please.
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and this is the "balance" both whiners and DEVs wants on PvP for GWFs??? O__oUu
So, here is my feedback:
Swordmaster GWF-class need a BOOST overall right now.
First, they need a PRONE as GFs, HRs, CWs and even WARLOCKS classes have.
Make Flourish CC inmune, with faster animation and RANGED (give it the range that Creshedo has) and PRONE as FLS still does
Steel Blitz needs a buff on damage and more proc rate
Steel Grace must be fixed. It only works son PvE, not on PvP
Roar must ROOT enemies
BTW, i accept suggestions about my performance, if any. XD
Edit to add a new video
BUMP! I hope the developers are watching this review and go for further GWF boost. Planning to quit / delete account if Mod 4 don't hold substantial value. Not in the mood to make another class - going to play another game. There is plenty of evidence here.
If they can't figure it out, it means the developers lack understanding of the game mechanics and I don't want to be a part of it. What is really bad , is they are making a tank melee class which can't even stand out on a 1v1. Group wise it's worse. Looking for a different game already.
I agree that Takedown needed its prone to be removed, the devs said they want prone to be a somewhat more special effect, not for some skill that can be used every 6 secs.
That doesn't mean that the GWF needs some way to defend himself, but no takedown prone anymore please.
Then they are contradicting themselves by putting that 4s prone on the SW.
13 seconds, but its duration is to the point where the SW takes away nearly all or a good chunk of your hp in that time (if they are geared). I got the time from a SW I just randomly asked.
Yeah, I think prone should be left just for dailies or stuff like that. it's way too much for regular skills.
I both agree and disagree with that. I see prones not much of a problem for encounters if they arent as common. Takedown was very reasonable prone given its easy to miss with it, it such a short ranged prone. The only problem was follow up attacks, whenever you did get hit with Takedown, its followed by a array of more prones from the fighters. Or alternatively the other way away, with frontline surge and then takedown/bullrush and then either daily. It was a garranteed CC chain that you could do nothing about once you're caught in it just once.
Boar Rush from HR also prones, but it also has a half second period where the HR cant do anything afterwards, only giving half a second more a free hit, and then the player can retaliate.
The only prones CW's have is the Ice Knife, which doesnt make much a difference, with the amount of control they have normally.
TR's whisperknife path's prone, is the only prone they have, doesnt do nearly as much damage as CW's Iceknife, only boon to the daily is they are CC immune during the animation.
Prones in general were never really a problem until GWF's started getting prone stacking abilities from Frontline surge and the daily. And thats when things became a problem. Not to mention prones arent affected by tenacity. Which if they were, even that wouldnt be much of a problem. As they'll HAVE to use takedown to even have a chance to go through thier CC chain, using frontline surge as a start attack will have someone who has a good bit of cc resist be able to recover before they can follow it up.
I cant say anything about scourge warlock, thats one of the skills I havent had a chance to test and look at.
But the key problem from analysing above was that prones were never a problem until GWF's began getting abilities to stack these prones. With the introduction of Iron Vanguard, they gotten almost as many prones as all the other classes combined. before this happened that prone from Takedown was essential, as most of thier attacks were difficult to land, even takedown itself. A successful takedown will at least keep a moving or unsuspecting target long enough to get another hit on. It also helped in combating perma stealth rogues, as these prone messed up thier rotation to keep them perma stealth or hold them still long enough to actually hurt them. GWF's were essentially a counter to that playstyle, and without any prones they can use, permastealth rogues will have no counter.
That GWF had less than 1/4 of his GS in def stats. Glass Cannon.
Warlocks are VERY Dangerous. My 15k gs CW (9k Atk 6k Def) vs 10k gs Warlock (6k atk 4k def)
I lost in 1 single rotation of Warlock attacks.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to say to use Punishing Charge as an interrupt but was instead mentioning it because the post I replied to I though was the same poster that mentioned the CW being 80' away. I see now it was not and I misquoted and even typo added one to many uses of the word "interrupt" which I see made my statement confusing a bit. Punishing Charge and Sprint can be used to close that distance quickly.
You show facts (videos / pictures), argues (either using the reason, sometimes with hate) and now the cw "tab" is , optionally, the full version of unstoppable.
not have much to argue now, just compare. gwf using "punishing charge" vs the new super shield. battle fury vs fray, stack system vs full hr base damage.
what say now? what say? nor in pvp - which by the way I do not play - this wretched class will have time.
I play only the GWF, I have no other toons. I play GWF because I like to wade into battle and do massive DPS. On live I am rarely out damaged by only extraordinary CW's. I hold my own in PvP by being able to kill quickly with my spec. I'm not the unkillable juggernaut people make the GWF out to be.
I played briefly on Preview the other night, and I was disgusted. Did the Lostmauth "skirmish"? and I was significantly out damaged by an HR. I could not pull any agro off him, I could not off tank as I could not take any damage without being killed. I could not even sustain any dps for any length of time for running for my life.
This is not the playing experience I want nor expect from a GWF, I'm very happy to see the buff's to classes that are lacking them, but the Dev's have smashed the entrie reason I enjoy Neverwinter into the ground.
and this is the "balance" both whiners and DEVs wants on PvP for GWFs??? O__oUu
So, here is my feedback:
Swordmaster GWF-class need a BOOST overall right now.
First, they need a PRONE as GFs, HRs, CWs and even WARLOCKS classes have.
Make Flourish CC inmune, with faster animation and RANGED (give it the range that Creshedo has) and PRONE as FLS still does
Steel Blitz needs a buff on damage and more proc rate
Steel Grace must be fixed. It only works son PvE, not on PvP
Roar must ROOT enemies
BTW, i accept suggestions about my performance, if any. XD
Edit to add a new video
all i needed to see was the GWF vs HR lol at how OP wildsmedicine still is at 10 stacks that and the new lone wolf lets them get 40-45% deflect just beyond ridiculous
Then they are contradicting themselves by putting that 4s prone on the SW.
That Prone shouldn't last 4 seconds on players and is getting fixed in the next build. And the general desire to have prone be something that is a little more difficult to get (because it does shut off a not insubstantial portion of your defenses on many classes), is still part of this. Harrowstorm requires you to sacrifice all the damage it can deal for the prone (or time it well and only clip the end, which is a substantial skill play).
That Prone shouldn't last 4 seconds on players and is getting fixed in the next build. And the general desire to have prone be something that is a little more difficult to get (because it does shut off a not insubstantial portion of your defenses on many classes), is still part of this. Harrowstorm requires you to sacrifice all the damage it can deal for the prone (or time it well and only clip the end, which is a substantial skill play).
That Prone shouldn't last 4 seconds on players and is getting fixed in the next build. And the general desire to have prone be something that is a little more difficult to get (because it does shut off a not insubstantial portion of your defenses on many classes), is still part of this. Harrowstorm requires you to sacrifice all the damage it can deal for the prone (or time it well and only clip the end, which is a substantial skill play).
With the nerf to our UNSTOPPABLE, and TR and FLS, don't you think that we have to sacrifice our HP just to get close to the enemy and TAKEDOWN them?If u talking about skill then yes TAKEDOWN require some skill to use them successfully. U can revert back the reduced cooldown we get from the feat.But please give it the prone and the base damage back.It is a very short range and slow power after all.
With the nerf to our UNSTOPPABLE, and TR and FLS, don't you think that we have to sacrifice our HP just to get close to the enemy and TAKEDOWN them?If u talking about skill then yes TAKEDOWN require some skill to use them successfully. U can revert back the reduced cooldown we get from the feat.But please give it the prone and the base damage back.It is a very short range and slow power after all.
Sprinting gives DR and cc immunity so you aren't giving up HP to get close. Takedown's effect (prone) takes place instantly while the animation hasn't even completed, so it is not slow at all. Also it should really have any range (if it kept the prone), the fact it lasted so long in its current state is ridiculous.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The main problem on what you say is that other classes but TR (which have Perma Stealth) have PRONES encounter moves... You can hide it all you want and you can hide it as you want with your rhetoric but the problem is still there and the same: other classes aside GWF and TR have prone encounter moves. Your way to "balance" the game is, just, a bad one. Given all buffs other classes have, GWF-class should have, at least, the same "capabilities" as others classes have, otherwise, you will still keep the same problem all time but with other classes and making the same mistake over and over again.
TR's do not have prone encounter moves. The only prone they have is the Whisperknife daily. I gave an overlook on all the current classes's prones a page ago.
Comments
i totally agree ...GWF are useless...may be u moderators got this feedback when a GWF who is heavily equppied with gear kills whole team in pvp..but look at this ,,,to have unstoppable it requires for him to take dmg, and unstoppable animation is not instant like blink or dodge,u guys previously nerfed GWF healing while unstoppable gaining him temporary hit ppoints which is quite useless , to catch a opponent GWF uses sprint, but what escape option he has,,,if its a tanking ability its easy for a cw, hr or tr to bring him down..have u guys sword master feat is totally useless now in pvp..u gave cw high cc options, 3 blinks, and aoe skills, u gave tr permanent stealth , 2 dodges , one dmg immune skill, hr omg this one is awesome, roots targets even they dodge , gwf gets rooted in unstoppable , 5 dodges when every encounter against him can be avoided and most of all a range attacker, with the kind of gear provided he is defensive enough and does hugh dmg, GF shielded and prone options ofcourse,,now please judge the possiblity as ur system queses us for pvp...a 10k GWF gets queued against 15k of anyone of these toons..so what options does he have. may be u guys got a opinion when top GWF 's performed in pvp. but try to judge on low level or trying to gear up toons .
Good to see that someone is watching every step I make, I feel like I have fan club, thanks.
Btw, you are wrong. From a PvE PoV, I'm just saying that the other classes are receiving bigger buffs than those received by the GWF, HR and SW are dealing much more dmg than the "Destroyer". I don't think I've ever mentioned that the GWF is unviable for PvE, when I mention that is "terrible" is because other characters with worse equipment are able to outdps you, that's not right.
True
GWF destroyer is not the destroyer any more ,Power rangers will take her place .
The only thing can make gwf better is her survivability but this was taken from us also our dps is decreased by huge amount .
Why is HR better cuz all hr skill have auto target not effected by laag rollback rubberbanding.
So the role of good dps taken away from GWF destro cuz PVP balance i dont think this balance.
I can understand SW cuz he have nothing to protect her self but HR ?
You can't even really use roar since its now supposed to put the power on a 3s cooldown (going off of memory, but one of the dev's said the cooldown it should go to) when it happens (completely negligible). Avalanche of Steel is an option due to the immunity frames, but, again, its a daily so its not always an option and we forfeit a more useful daily; its more of an "oh ****" daily as far as PvP goes. There is also Mighty Leap which is literally the ONLY option we have outside of Avalanche to "avoid" damage with a dodge, but we forfeit a more useful power that can actually do damage or give us some cc in PvP.
That doesn't mean that the GWF needs some way to defend himself, but no takedown prone anymore please.
BUMP! I hope the developers are watching this review and go for further GWF boost. Planning to quit / delete account if Mod 4 don't hold substantial value. Not in the mood to make another class - going to play another game. There is plenty of evidence here.
If they can't figure it out, it means the developers lack understanding of the game mechanics and I don't want to be a part of it. What is really bad , is they are making a tank melee class which can't even stand out on a 1v1. Group wise it's worse. Looking for a different game already.
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Then they are contradicting themselves by putting that 4s prone on the SW.
I both agree and disagree with that. I see prones not much of a problem for encounters if they arent as common. Takedown was very reasonable prone given its easy to miss with it, it such a short ranged prone. The only problem was follow up attacks, whenever you did get hit with Takedown, its followed by a array of more prones from the fighters. Or alternatively the other way away, with frontline surge and then takedown/bullrush and then either daily. It was a garranteed CC chain that you could do nothing about once you're caught in it just once.
Boar Rush from HR also prones, but it also has a half second period where the HR cant do anything afterwards, only giving half a second more a free hit, and then the player can retaliate.
The only prones CW's have is the Ice Knife, which doesnt make much a difference, with the amount of control they have normally.
TR's whisperknife path's prone, is the only prone they have, doesnt do nearly as much damage as CW's Iceknife, only boon to the daily is they are CC immune during the animation.
Prones in general were never really a problem until GWF's started getting prone stacking abilities from Frontline surge and the daily. And thats when things became a problem. Not to mention prones arent affected by tenacity. Which if they were, even that wouldnt be much of a problem. As they'll HAVE to use takedown to even have a chance to go through thier CC chain, using frontline surge as a start attack will have someone who has a good bit of cc resist be able to recover before they can follow it up.
I cant say anything about scourge warlock, thats one of the skills I havent had a chance to test and look at.
But the key problem from analysing above was that prones were never a problem until GWF's began getting abilities to stack these prones. With the introduction of Iron Vanguard, they gotten almost as many prones as all the other classes combined. before this happened that prone from Takedown was essential, as most of thier attacks were difficult to land, even takedown itself. A successful takedown will at least keep a moving or unsuspecting target long enough to get another hit on. It also helped in combating perma stealth rogues, as these prone messed up thier rotation to keep them perma stealth or hold them still long enough to actually hurt them. GWF's were essentially a counter to that playstyle, and without any prones they can use, permastealth rogues will have no counter.
Warlocks are VERY Dangerous. My 15k gs CW (9k Atk 6k Def) vs 10k gs Warlock (6k atk 4k def)
I lost in 1 single rotation of Warlock attacks.
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not have much to argue now, just compare. gwf using "punishing charge" vs the new super shield. battle fury vs fray, stack system vs full hr base damage.
what say now? what say? nor in pvp - which by the way I do not play - this wretched class will have time.
I played briefly on Preview the other night, and I was disgusted. Did the Lostmauth "skirmish"? and I was significantly out damaged by an HR. I could not pull any agro off him, I could not off tank as I could not take any damage without being killed. I could not even sustain any dps for any length of time for running for my life.
This is not the playing experience I want nor expect from a GWF, I'm very happy to see the buff's to classes that are lacking them, but the Dev's have smashed the entrie reason I enjoy Neverwinter into the ground.
all i needed to see was the GWF vs HR lol at how OP wildsmedicine still is at 10 stacks that and the new lone wolf lets them get 40-45% deflect just beyond ridiculous
That Prone shouldn't last 4 seconds on players and is getting fixed in the next build. And the general desire to have prone be something that is a little more difficult to get (because it does shut off a not insubstantial portion of your defenses on many classes), is still part of this. Harrowstorm requires you to sacrifice all the damage it can deal for the prone (or time it well and only clip the end, which is a substantial skill play).
Good. sounded overpowered in PvP. :P
It's evil, you have no idea.
With the nerf to our UNSTOPPABLE, and TR and FLS, don't you think that we have to sacrifice our HP just to get close to the enemy and TAKEDOWN them?If u talking about skill then yes TAKEDOWN require some skill to use them successfully. U can revert back the reduced cooldown we get from the feat.But please give it the prone and the base damage back.It is a very short range and slow power after all.
Sprinting gives DR and cc immunity so you aren't giving up HP to get close. Takedown's effect (prone) takes place instantly while the animation hasn't even completed, so it is not slow at all. Also it should really have any range (if it kept the prone), the fact it lasted so long in its current state is ridiculous.
TR's do not have prone encounter moves. The only prone they have is the Whisperknife daily. I gave an overlook on all the current classes's prones a page ago.