Greetings Adventurers!
With some changes coming to the way Power interacts with player powers, we thought this was a good time to fix some issues with the Great Weapon Fighter and try to better define his Destroyer and Sentinel trees.
Overview
Deep Gash and Student of the Sword were both fairly problematic feats, being that they were very easy to reach, and Deep Gash was receiving way more damage than was ever intended. In some cases it could make up nearly 30% of the total damage output to some Great Weapon Fighters. Given this we wanted to fix this bug and move a lot of that damage deeper down the Destroyer tree to make them a much stronger DPS presence and provide them a more clear play cycle that rewarded smart use of powers and Unstoppable. To accomplish that goal we have made the following changes.
Feats: Steely Defense: This feat now correctly grants 4/8/12/16/20% of your Defense as Power.
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat no longer gains additional damage from the power that applies it.
Feats: Deep Gash: This feat can no longer crit. This feat now applies a bleed that ticks for 4/8/12/16/20% of your Power (up from 3/6/9/12/15%).
Feats: Deep Gash: This power no longer ticks immediately upon application. New applications will not reset the tick timer. Additionally this DoT now lasts 6 seconds (up from 5). It still ticks 6 times total.
Feats: Student of the Sword: REWORK Your Critical Strikes now lower your target's Damage Resistance to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect cannot stack.
Feats: Executioner's Strike: Indomitable Battle Strike now deals a bonus 6/12/18/24/30% bonus damage as the target's health diminishes (up from 2/3/6/8/10%).
Feats: Relentless Battle Fury: NEW This feat now grants an additional effect. Activating Roar, Takedown, or Battle Fury now grants you Relentless. Relentless causes you to ignore an additional 1/2/3/4/5% of the target's resistance. Relentless lasts 5 seconds.
Feats: Focused Destroyer: This feat now grants an additional .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% bonus damage per stack of Destroyer.
Feats: Battle Awareness: Savage advance now grants shorter cooldowns for 15 seconds (up from 5).
Feats: Destroyer's Purpose: NEW This feat now grants an additional effect. When you deal damage while Unstoppable, you gain a stack of Destroyer's Purpose (max 20). Each stack of Destroyer's Purpose increases your damage by 1%. Destroyer's Purpose lasts 20 seconds.
Ty god i still have my CW, those chances will make my CW more needed and then poor GWF's will be like TR's ur 15 min of glory has ended, ty crypt/pwe, and great work keep destroing that useless class and rise up my CW. Mod 3 party 4x CW 1 x dc(not always)
Where do you guys see something about Roar in the initial post of this thread?
I remember Roar bringing decent Determination, that was long ago, then it got nerfed.
1: if forbidden to post videos, ask the moderator to pass to the dev before deleting the link. My priority is not to win the argument or gain views.
2: all the notes have been given throughout the topic and considerations / brackets are evident. The "standard iv" or "sm single" station near the "ok". Never said otherwise.
3:yeah ... I did not hit the critical ibs in the first video ... hahha. bad luck, but what matters is the message..
Power giving more dps in Preview, the gwf damage in Preview should be 125% of live damage. The dev's will to make it a pure dps class instead of a somehow buff-giver for the whole party should mean a damage on Preview rising to 160% of the current damage on Live. So far, the charts on the Live server barely show a 80%, that's not even the half of what it should be.
Either double the base damage of any Atwill-Encounter-daily, or make the stacks 5% instead of the current 1%
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
still no improvments for swordmaster and change of focused mark
Hmm..not sure on that . It took me a long time to get off the fence and go IV when mod 2 came out , now I think I'll be going back for no other reason than weapon masters strike . SM will be the only GWF path left w/ any type of debuff at all and its a pretty considerable one at that . The changes to Destroyer helps SM a lot . As for the posts about improving Sentinel the way I feel about it is you can't have your cake and eat it too , you can choose to be **** near invincible PvP or able to hold your own PvE , not both ..we're GWF's not CW's .
As for focused mark , the only thing that will tempt me to stay IV is threatening rush markng targets . To think any experienced player will continue to use student of the sword is laughable when I can take a 2nd tier Sentinel feat and do 15% more damage to marked targets , 15% damage > 5% debuff (for myself only) Its a no brainer , SotS will be dropped by every GWF like a bad habit . Actually if the devs decide to leave it as they plan to they might as well just take it out altogether , it will just be one of those feats you have to take to progress as instigator at the most .
1. For example I have 6000 Power and Rank 5 Deep Gash (the reworked one), am I gonna do a confirmed 240 damage per tick of Deep Gash or will this number be affected by external bonuses other than the removed criticals and initial power applied?
2. About new applications does not reset the tick timer for Deep Gash, may you elaborate a little further on this?
Thanks!
If u have 6000 power, on preview your DG damage should be 1200(6000*20/100=1200 or 20% of 6000)
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hmm..not sure on that . It took me a long time to get off the fence and go IV when mod 2 came out , now I think I'll be going back for no other reason than weapon masters strike . SM will be the only GWF path left w/ any type of debuff at all and its a pretty considerable one at that . The changes to Destroyer helps SM a lot . As for the posts about improving Sentinel the way I feel about it is you can't have your cake and eat it too , you can choose to be **** near invincible PvP or able to hold your own PvE , not both ..we're GWF's not CW's .
As for focused mark , the only thing that will tempt me to stay IV is threatening rush markng targets . To think any experienced player will continue to use student of the sword is laughable when I can take a 2nd tier Sentinel feat and do 15% more damage to marked targets , 15% damage > 5% debuff (for myself only) Its a no brainer , SotS will be dropped by every GWF like a bad habit . Actually if the devs decide to leave it as they plan to they might as well just take it out altogether , it will just be one of those feats you have to take to progress as instigator at the most .
disagree. If you had 3 at wills then TR would be ok, and you could build around using TR for marks.
Since you don't, it's a waste. and since marks drop and the bonus goes away the second the mobs attack then its not 15%. its 15% for at most 1 attack (usually wasted on an at will) every time you stop doing DPS to use TR, ignoring the fact that you gave up half your at will dmg to slot TR over sure strike.
I've tested this consistently. No TR user has ever come close to the dmg of a sure strike user at same gear/skill. And now that At Wills play an even larger part of our dmg totals, you can't make up for this loss of dps with deep gash. The contrast in dmg will be far more noticable.
its 5% more dmg vs every mob you crit (ie every mob you attack) all the time, vs what, unstoppable recovery or 5% deflect? those are the 2 tier 1 sent feats.
Then you have the option of gaining 15% dmg vs marked targets, which works out to like maybe 2 or 3% dmg at the most (at the loss of your single target DPS at will, which is huge), vs Vicious Advantage, which is 5% crit and 5% dmg basically 80% of the time. higher if you group with an HR or renegade CW.
sots is definitely weaker now, but it's still a 5% dps increase, the same as deep gash, and better than anything else tier 1 in terms of dps.
If I were to bet, it seems that these bonus damage (bf /destroyer porpose ) is just being added to my already calculated critical of my base damage, and not itself multiplied by the power according to my severity, so ...
please, fix that.
ps:if rentless has the same effect as sos, I'm not so sure it's working.
disagree. If you had 3 at wills then TR would be ok, and you could build around using TR for marks.
Since you don't, it's a waste. and since marks drop and the bonus goes away the second the mobs attack then its not 15%. its 15% for at most 1 attack (usually wasted on an at will) every time you stop doing DPS to use TR, ignoring the fact that you gave up half your at will dmg to slot TR over sure strike.
I've tested this consistently. No TR user has ever come close to the dmg of a sure strike user at same gear/skill. And now that At Wills play an even larger part of our dmg totals, you can't make up for this loss of dps with deep gash. The contrast in dmg will be far more noticable.
its 5% more dmg vs every mob you crit (ie every mob you attack) all the time, vs what, unstoppable recovery or 5% deflect? those are the 2 tier 1 sent feats.
Then you have the option of gaining 15% dmg vs marked targets, which works out to like maybe 2 or 3% dmg at the most (at the loss of your single target DPS at will, which is huge), vs Vicious Advantage, which is 5% crit and 5% dmg basically 80% of the time. higher if you group with an HR or renegade CW.
sots is definitely weaker now, but it's still a 5% dps increase, the same as deep gash, and better than anything else tier 1 in terms of dps.
Valid points you've made and I cant disagree with the logic , I haven't tested anything on preview . I haven't noticed any drop in dps using TR live , I lead in with it follow up w/ FLS then Nsf and the targets are still marked , the 3rd part is IBS which normaly marks them again at which point Im unstoppable going nuts with WS . The only time I slot SS is when I'm fighting a boss although auto target w/ TR also has worked well for me . I try not to attack anything alone if I can avoid it but I do agree SS is best single target attack . Yeah I would never build 'around' TR . I don't agree with the 3% at the most , TR marks the ads adjacent to the target which usually is everything I can hit with my 5 target cap encounter powers which will be 15% . I don't see sure strike being anywhere close to what it is now , we'll no longer be 'resetting the tick timer' every hit , as well as the deep gashes not critting and the damage is pretty bad . Who knows though , W/ Vicious advantage as well you might be right dps wise I'll still test it when mod 3 comes out and see for myself. Deep gash being fixed should be done , nerfing the life out of student of the sword should not .
I would like to chime in and say I agree with intothefade's comments that Threatening Rush, and the Mark's it provide, are hard to keep up with the speed of our other At-Will's.
Also, after quite a bit of testing, I've been finding that for a Destroyer spec the Swordmaster Paragon Path may in fact be overall better in PvE for DPS than Iron Vanguard. Particularly with the combination of Weapon Masters Strike's debuff and the 40% max stacks of Destroyer's Purpose, it leads to absurd crits with Perfect Vorpal on Indomitable Battle Strike w/o combat advantage.
Is it the same as live? Doubt it, but it's been really good in testing thus far... :cool:
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would like to chime in and say I agree with intothefade's comments that Threatening Rush, and the Mark's it provide, are hard to keep up with the speed of our other At-Will's.
Also, after quite a bit of testing, I've been finding that for a Destroyer spec the Swordmaster Paragon Path may in fact be overall better in PvE for DPS than Iron Vanguard. Particularly with the combination of Weapon Masters Strike's debuff and the 40% max stacks of Destroyer's Purpose, it leads to absurd crits with Perfect Vorpal on Indomitable Battle Strike w/o combat advantage.
Is it the same as live? Doubt it, but it's been really good in testing thus far... :cool:
When you say "same as live" are you talking total dps or just big crit numbers? because my IBS crits are much, much higher on PTR than live, though total dps is down.
When you say "same as live" are you talking total dps or just big crit numbers? because my IBS crits are much, much higher on PTR than live, though total dps is down.
No because it is not like the other dungeons. More like a solo dungeon. Mass of weak foes with no abilities, no teleport, nothing. Too easy to be always in fight. Never disturbed by anything. Very steady damage, incoming and delivered.
Testings in PK will only conclusions relevant only for situations where the gwf can just charge head first while the CWs conveniently keep sing-ing the foes for him.
By lack of new charts the same statements stand: at best 60% of live damage with the 1% stacks, at best 80% of life damage with the 2% stacks, where 125% is the expected result if overall damage was kept the same and 150-200% the needed result to compensate for the loss of the SotS.
would be interesting if the friend dev answer if this is the "ultimate destroyer", and if not, what is the projection of damage/utility in relation to live.
I'm so discouraged about the future of the class, I have just entered the game to manage the professions.
Projection of damage? The first post has not been changed, it is still 20 stacks of 1% and 20 seconds. This is the projection of damage.
60% of the live damage, and SotS gone. This is the future of the class.
Gwf is now a Gateway class, with only Kolatmaster in the actual game, endlessly running PK, carefully avoiding to use ACT or any damage parser, trying to keep alive his dream of a viable class, against all evidence.
this is the point of having a real projection of damage. if, according to the projection is that the gwf is fine now (or close), there is not reason to keep doing tests, or trying to explain, for all possible angles, why gwf is doomed to the next module.
With that in mind you need to bring Destroyer DPS down to ~50% of it's current value while keeping Sentinel DPS roughly the same and buffing Instigator DPS. Right now you are nerfing Sentinel and Instigator DPS while trying to keep Destroyer DPS roughly the same. This is not solving anything, to be completely honest. In fact, you are looking completely in the wrong direction. Sentinel threat and survivability is more than fine, that never was an issue in PvE. The issue for most classes can be boiled down to "not enough dps" or "not enough control/support". For Sentinel that would be the first statement, while it would be both for the Instigator.
If you want to make tanking more desirable you should start looking at control/support spells and/or feats. Come and Get It is a nice place to start for example. Tie it closer to the Sentinel tree by giving it a feat that increases the range and adds a taunt to the targets. Make the marks more permanent and add a bonus for the rest of the group when attacking a marked target.
I'd want to have on of those Sentinels in my group!
Control or DPS-Buffs are the way to go because DPS and control is everything that counts in high-end PvE scenarios. Stacking DPS is a reality and will not stop with the next module. The classes that will do fine are those who provide either the most DPS or the best control/support.
HR are considered to be useless in PvE because they lack control/buffs and deal only average DPS.
TR are considered to be useless in PvE because they lack control/buffs and deal only below-average DPS.
GF are considered to be useless in PvE because they hit like a wet noodle while only offering a medium amount of control/buffs.
Instigators are unless in PvE because... What are Instigators supposed to be anyway?
Sentinels are less desirable in PvE because they have less DPS than a Destroyer while not offering more control/buffs.
And this is the direction you should be looking at in terms of PvE performance. Your proposed changes aren't really helping anyone except Destroyers who are the least ones to actually need any help. Your changes are making the Sentinel even less useful for groups and I have to ask why that is...
destroyer with 50% of the dps of live was the destroyer of module 1. know what players do when they saw one gwf ? Abandoned the party. This is not an exaggeration.
Gwf is now a Gateway class, with only Kolatmaster in the actual game, endlessly running PK, carefully avoiding to use ACT or any damage parser, trying to keep alive his dream of a viable class, against all evidence.
Hating much mi amigo? lol
<< image removed >>
I'm not sure where you get the information about 'endlessly running PK', but it is slightly inaccurate, though I do run it. I like running all dungeons honestly...
'Carefully avoiding' ACT/Damage parser is also inaccurate in the sense I am 'avoiding' them. I am not a 'tech guy', never used a program like that before, this is my first MMO, etc. So I don't use it, and I make sure I state (in any data that I share) that it's my opinion and I have not used parsing programs like ACT. Full transparency and all that jazz!
It's all good though bud, keep on harping if that's what you want to spend your day doing as it is no skin off my back! :cool:
I'll keep playing a game, and a class, I enjoy... Pretty simple concept since we can all do whatever we want for fun.
We have to wait what they'll do with the CWs. In the current form, there is no place for GWFs in high-end runs. The overall damage output will decrease, but what really hurts in this context is the SotS nerf. The new content might even call for tanks (remains to be seen), but then with the power rework +buff advantage GFs should outperform them. Not to say that GWFs can't hold aggro whatsoever and deal a good amount of damage, which the GF is capable of doing.
I made some changes in my build and went to the new scenario. this can not be serious ... I'm skidding across the ice, taking shots that takes 2/3 of my hp while cw is the distance doing 3/4x my damage. this can not be serious. not want to harm the cw player ? ok; but and gwf player?
ps:roar is not building no determination now. I need to use roar and to build determination out by damage, ie, to reach my maximum damage (ridiculous by the way) is even more frustrating.
and do not need to comment on the threat of the class is an embarrassment now .
I made some changes in my build and went to the new scenario. this can not be serious ... I'm skidding across the ice, taking shots that takes 2/3 of my hp while cw is the distance doing 3/4x my damage. this can not be serious. not want to harm the cw player ? ok; but and gwf player?
ps:roar is not building no determination now. I need to use roar and to build determination out by damage, ie, to reach my maximum damage (ridiculous by the way) is even more frustrating.
and do not need to comment on the threat of the class is now an embarrassment.
Seems like you ran into one of these bugged 2-3 HEs in Icewind Pass. Alone I don't stand a chance on my CW as well. They have 175k HP and deal 7k damage (not counting Black Ice damage) per swing when they should have 30k HP dealing 3.5k damage. It's not a fair measurement.
With my Destro GWF the nerfs in solo PVE are hardly noticable, I can comfortably run unbugged 2-3 HEs and even do some 3-5 HEs, though the time runs out most of the time. Deep Gash and to a lesser extent SotS only hurt fights against high HP / DD mobs.
not really, I played with 3 cw. one of fire and other 2 standard (I play in Portuguese, I do not know the English name). the fire was ok. also did more damage than me, but in single has sensed a slight superiority of gwf.
the other 2 ... is a surreal difference.
ps:by rotating the 3 were thau.
ps2:is not a criticism in particular the cw. I saw rogues also doing a good job there. not yet seen any gf, by the way ... is another discussion, but as the idea seems to be approaching the fighters ... is a bad idea ..
Comments
I remember Roar bringing decent Determination, that was long ago, then it got nerfed.
live:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzSCg-bt7NE
preview:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W49jsvlOZZk
ps:
1: if forbidden to post videos, ask the moderator to pass to the dev before deleting the link. My priority is not to win the argument or gain views.
2: all the notes have been given throughout the topic and considerations / brackets are evident. The "standard iv" or "sm single" station near the "ok". Never said otherwise.
3:yeah ... I did not hit the critical ibs in the first video ... hahha. bad luck, but what matters is the message..
Either double the base damage of any Atwill-Encounter-daily, or make the stacks 5% instead of the current 1%
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Hmm..not sure on that . It took me a long time to get off the fence and go IV when mod 2 came out , now I think I'll be going back for no other reason than weapon masters strike . SM will be the only GWF path left w/ any type of debuff at all and its a pretty considerable one at that . The changes to Destroyer helps SM a lot . As for the posts about improving Sentinel the way I feel about it is you can't have your cake and eat it too , you can choose to be **** near invincible PvP or able to hold your own PvE , not both ..we're GWF's not CW's .
As for focused mark , the only thing that will tempt me to stay IV is threatening rush markng targets . To think any experienced player will continue to use student of the sword is laughable when I can take a 2nd tier Sentinel feat and do 15% more damage to marked targets , 15% damage > 5% debuff (for myself only) Its a no brainer , SotS will be dropped by every GWF like a bad habit . Actually if the devs decide to leave it as they plan to they might as well just take it out altogether , it will just be one of those feats you have to take to progress as instigator at the most .
If u have 6000 power, on preview your DG damage should be 1200(6000*20/100=1200 or 20% of 6000)
disagree. If you had 3 at wills then TR would be ok, and you could build around using TR for marks.
Since you don't, it's a waste. and since marks drop and the bonus goes away the second the mobs attack then its not 15%. its 15% for at most 1 attack (usually wasted on an at will) every time you stop doing DPS to use TR, ignoring the fact that you gave up half your at will dmg to slot TR over sure strike.
I've tested this consistently. No TR user has ever come close to the dmg of a sure strike user at same gear/skill. And now that At Wills play an even larger part of our dmg totals, you can't make up for this loss of dps with deep gash. The contrast in dmg will be far more noticable.
its 5% more dmg vs every mob you crit (ie every mob you attack) all the time, vs what, unstoppable recovery or 5% deflect? those are the 2 tier 1 sent feats.
Then you have the option of gaining 15% dmg vs marked targets, which works out to like maybe 2 or 3% dmg at the most (at the loss of your single target DPS at will, which is huge), vs Vicious Advantage, which is 5% crit and 5% dmg basically 80% of the time. higher if you group with an HR or renegade CW.
sots is definitely weaker now, but it's still a 5% dps increase, the same as deep gash, and better than anything else tier 1 in terms of dps.
I really do not understand the situation, so ... I'll just post the pictures (140% severity test using frontline surge).
0 boost damage:
focused destroyer (only):
bf (only)
destroyer porpose (only)
If I were to bet, it seems that these bonus damage (bf /destroyer porpose ) is just being added to my already calculated critical of my base damage, and not itself multiplied by the power according to my severity, so ...
please, fix that.
ps:if rentless has the same effect as sos, I'm not so sure it's working.
Valid points you've made and I cant disagree with the logic , I haven't tested anything on preview . I haven't noticed any drop in dps using TR live , I lead in with it follow up w/ FLS then Nsf and the targets are still marked , the 3rd part is IBS which normaly marks them again at which point Im unstoppable going nuts with WS . The only time I slot SS is when I'm fighting a boss although auto target w/ TR also has worked well for me . I try not to attack anything alone if I can avoid it but I do agree SS is best single target attack . Yeah I would never build 'around' TR . I don't agree with the 3% at the most , TR marks the ads adjacent to the target which usually is everything I can hit with my 5 target cap encounter powers which will be 15% . I don't see sure strike being anywhere close to what it is now , we'll no longer be 'resetting the tick timer' every hit , as well as the deep gashes not critting and the damage is pretty bad . Who knows though , W/ Vicious advantage as well you might be right dps wise I'll still test it when mod 3 comes out and see for myself. Deep gash being fixed should be done , nerfing the life out of student of the sword should not .
Also, after quite a bit of testing, I've been finding that for a Destroyer spec the Swordmaster Paragon Path may in fact be overall better in PvE for DPS than Iron Vanguard. Particularly with the combination of Weapon Masters Strike's debuff and the 40% max stacks of Destroyer's Purpose, it leads to absurd crits with Perfect Vorpal on Indomitable Battle Strike w/o combat advantage.
Is it the same as live? Doubt it, but it's been really good in testing thus far... :cool:
When you say "same as live" are you talking total dps or just big crit numbers? because my IBS crits are much, much higher on PTR than live, though total dps is down.
Hopefully the tests are not being done in Pirate King dungeon.
IMO Deep Gash shouldn't be affected by defense nor deflection. One already overcame both to cause the bleeding wound.
No because it is not like the other dungeons. More like a solo dungeon. Mass of weak foes with no abilities, no teleport, nothing. Too easy to be always in fight. Never disturbed by anything. Very steady damage, incoming and delivered.
Testings in PK will only conclusions relevant only for situations where the gwf can just charge head first while the CWs conveniently keep sing-ing the foes for him.
By lack of new charts the same statements stand: at best 60% of live damage with the 1% stacks, at best 80% of life damage with the 2% stacks, where 125% is the expected result if overall damage was kept the same and 150-200% the needed result to compensate for the loss of the SotS.
I'm so discouraged about the future of the class, I have just entered the game to manage the professions.
60% of the live damage, and SotS gone. This is the future of the class.
Gwf is now a Gateway class, with only Kolatmaster in the actual game, endlessly running PK, carefully avoiding to use ACT or any damage parser, trying to keep alive his dream of a viable class, against all evidence.
destroyer with 50% of the dps of live was the destroyer of module 1. know what players do when they saw one gwf ? Abandoned the party. This is not an exaggeration.
<< image removed >>
I'm not sure where you get the information about 'endlessly running PK', but it is slightly inaccurate, though I do run it. I like running all dungeons honestly...
'Carefully avoiding' ACT/Damage parser is also inaccurate in the sense I am 'avoiding' them. I am not a 'tech guy', never used a program like that before, this is my first MMO, etc. So I don't use it, and I make sure I state (in any data that I share) that it's my opinion and I have not used parsing programs like ACT. Full transparency and all that jazz!
It's all good though bud, keep on harping if that's what you want to spend your day doing as it is no skin off my back! :cool:
I'll keep playing a game, and a class, I enjoy... Pretty simple concept since we can all do whatever we want for fun.
Keep rocking ese!
I made some changes in my build and went to the new scenario. this can not be serious ... I'm skidding across the ice, taking shots that takes 2/3 of my hp while cw is the distance doing 3/4x my damage. this can not be serious. not want to harm the cw player ? ok; but and gwf player?
ps:roar is not building no determination now. I need to use roar and to build determination out by damage, ie, to reach my maximum damage (ridiculous by the way) is even more frustrating.
and do not need to comment on the threat of the class is an embarrassment now .
Seems like you ran into one of these bugged 2-3 HEs in Icewind Pass. Alone I don't stand a chance on my CW as well. They have 175k HP and deal 7k damage (not counting Black Ice damage) per swing when they should have 30k HP dealing 3.5k damage. It's not a fair measurement.
With my Destro GWF the nerfs in solo PVE are hardly noticable, I can comfortably run unbugged 2-3 HEs and even do some 3-5 HEs, though the time runs out most of the time. Deep Gash and to a lesser extent SotS only hurt fights against high HP / DD mobs.
the other 2 ... is a surreal difference.
ps:by rotating the 3 were thau.
ps2:is not a criticism in particular the cw. I saw rogues also doing a good job there. not yet seen any gf, by the way ... is another discussion, but as the idea seems to be approaching the fighters ... is a bad idea ..