im a 16k+ GWF and I am almost allways the top dps in the dungens but only by a little bit to CW that are equaly as geared and skilled im not doing 10m more damage than a 19k cw no im usualy around 1m highter than them I don't think they should nerf gwf at all I think they should buff TRs and HR and make there class
A statement like that is part of the problem , too many people are concerned about where they place in paingiver rather than the group goal . Some people don't realize that its that CW that is enabling you to lay down that type of damage . The next time you pat yourself on the back for being such an awesome paingiver wise up and realize singularity and CC is what made that possible . I promise you if the CW changed his rotations for pure damage you wouldn't come close .
Everyone has to accept Deep Gash is broken . 16+ Inflated gs means nothing to me , I don't look at it , I look at your power . My 14.5gs GWF w/ 7800 power , +the boons + staggering onslaught gets my power over 9600 and trumps your 16+gs with 5400 in crit . That said I hope some things going to be put in place to take up the power vacuum . Power is the only thing that really scales w/o a cap and all classes benefit from it .
I still believe destroyers purpose alleviates the deep gash pill we all gotta swallow but I think what Warpet has said is also a good addition , maybe not the 20% increase in at wills but uncapping targets I am definitely on board with . CW's are uncapped and it would go a long way to equaling the playing field as far as AoE goes .
I don't know enough about TRs to chime in on that , what I do know is that anyone can clean trash and I have never seen Valindra burned down faster than Skintreads TR did . Once again the TR is the unsung hero that doesn't place in your paingiver chart but takes care of business when it counts .
1 - when projected that "the current gwf will be 80% of that with this change was" based on the logs, it takes into account that the base damage of all classes increased with this change in power, however, comparatively 'd be further back than we were?
You were never supposed to have 40% of your damage come from a mere first line 5 point feat. But since cryptic left this bug run rampant for months, now you feel entitled to this kind of dps and you will not have DG carrying your way into #1/2 Paingiver anymore.
It's a necessary nerf that in the future may open new alternatives to the class.
I do agree to the SOTS nerf was overdone.
Part of the reason no one wants anything but gwf and cws for dungeons is because of their massive Dps advantage over other classes. If we bring them more in line then the toolset that other classes offer will not be so overshadowed by that stupid paingiver box.
gwf SHOULD have done that kind of dps from start, or a bit less, though it should come from other sources. GWF is either tank(smth this game doesnt need) or pure no utility aoe dps, so they should be #1 in paingiver, problem is that cw, who should be doing MUCH lower damage as a SUPPORT class(like GF and DC),and even then cw would be really strong cause cw has more utility than both of them combined, rest of classes would be balanced in terms of damage then with minor changes(tr should be doing 150% gwf dmg on single target though)
Paladin Master Race
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1 - when projected that "the current gwf will be 80% of that with this change was" based on the logs, it takes into account that the base damage of all classes increased with this change in power, however, comparatively 'd be further back than we were?
Not a sarcastic question. I have this doubt.
no the 80% figure is based on mathematical calculation of damage profiles, ie 50% of our dmg is being reduced to 5% with DG changes, the remaining 50% is being multiplied by the 47.5% increased dmg from the new changes (destroyer and destroyer's purpose) resulting in roughly 80% of live dmg. This doesn't take into consideration the SOTS nerf though.
on Preview all classes seem to be doing more dmg due to the power change. players who stack power benefit the most, and GWFs stack power more than anyone else due to the current DG mechanics. It's best to compare against known players/builds. ie currently my 16k+ gwf does about the same dmg as an 12k CW. with Dest purpose being doubled will need to run more dungeons to determine how well gwf stacks against cw's in terms of dmg, though i'm guessing atleast equivalent to 14k cw.
for the record my 15.5k CW is doing about 22% more dmg than he does on live, and already does more dmg than my 16.4k GWF on live.
gwf SHOULD have done that kind of dps from start, or a bit less, though it should come from other sources. GWF is either tank(smth this game doesnt need) or pure no utility aoe dps, so they should be #1 in paingiver,
GWfs are tanks?
Good to know!
I pull a singu and all mobs are on me...
no the 80% figure is based on mathematical calculation of damage profiles, ie 50% of our dmg is being reduced to 5% with DG changes, the remaining 50% is being multiplied by the 47.5% increased dmg from the new changes (destroyer and destroyer's purpose) resulting in roughly 80% of live dmg. This doesn't take into consideration the SOTS nerf though.
on Preview all classes seem to be doing more dmg due to the power change. players who stack power benefit the most, and GWFs stack power more than anyone else due to the current DG mechanics. It's best to compare against known players/builds. ie currently my 16k+ gwf does about the same dmg as an 12k CW. with Dest purpose being doubled will need to run more dungeons to determine how well gwf stacks against cw's in terms of dmg, though i'm guessing atleast equivalent to 14k cw.
for the record my 15.5k CW is doing about 22% more dmg than he does on live, and already does more dmg than my 16.4k GWF on live.
hmmm; i see... well ... I'll wait for the destroyer porpose reach 5% per stack, my reaping striker have the damage fixed and snakes earn wings.
you just need use the bf to have a projection of what will be gwf with +20% in this pool damage... and... meh...
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And who said that your CW should have do less dmg than your gwf...?
I do more dmg with my R7 Gwfs than R8-9 Cws so...
yeah and i've topped paingiver on my TR the last 5 DDs i ran, over the last few days, against R8 GWF and CWs. Sometimes by 4-5mil, as much as 8mil more. I did 18 mil dmg in SP on a TR ffs.
it doesn't mean anything. inexperience, bad builds, bad feats, etc. Right now CW edges out GWF in dmg dealt at equivalent skill/gear, regardless of how many non-dps CWs you run with and destroy on the paingiver chart.
I was merely responding to the question if the dmg estimates from PTR took into consideration the power changes. Everyone is benefiting from the power rework, gwf who stack power most of all. So you should be careful when running dungeons on PTR and thinking, "oh look, i'm almost doing as much dmg on PTR as i am on live, so the nerf isn't that bad." Don't forget everyone else is also doing more dmg so you can't just compare PTR dmg dealt to live dmg dealt. look at any decent CW on PTR before you say the nerf isn't that bad, they are gaining as much as you are from power and aren't having to overcome at -55% dmg nerf.
Hey guys, after looking at some damage parses and doing some runs internally we are making a change to Destroyer's Purpose.
Destroyer's Purpose: This feat now gives 2% (up from 1%) per stack and now lasts 25 seconds (up from 20 seconds).
This change increases the benefit for managing to keep Destroyer's Purpose up while making it slightly easier to maintain.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Thanks for listening to our feedback.
But don't you think that makes the other tree (instigator and sentinel) irrelevant ? Will we have all to respec Destroyer to be of use in PVE ?
As others said, I think that's the base damage that should be up (either by increasing At-will and encounter damage, increaasing target cap, or removing damage debuff on multiple targets)
The buff to destroyer capstone is great, but giving other trees some usefulness would have been better
I know this might sound like an insane idea, but how about fixing Deep Gash as intended and leave everything else the same? GWF's don't need a buff to IBS and they don't need a nerf to any other feats or skills. Fix the broken feat and leave it at that.
I know this might sound like an insane idea, but how about fixing Deep Gash as intended and leave everything else the same? GWF's don't need a buff to IBS and they don't need a nerf to any other feats or skills. Fix the broken feat and leave it at that.
well that really is an insane idea, because bugged deep gash is what made GWF PvE viable. Fixing it = nerfing GWF damage without giving buffs to cover the dps loss will bring GWFS back to useless tier (worse than mod 1)
well that really is an insane idea, because bugged deep gash is what made GWF PvE viable. Fixing it = nerfing GWF damage without giving buffs to cover the dps loss will bring GWFS back to useless tier (worse than mod 1)
His calculations suggest that looks like the Destroyer line AS THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW will be running at 75-80% of current DPS while the other lines (Sentinel in particular) will be at 50-60%.
well that really is an insane idea, because bugged deep gash is what made GWF PvE viable. Fixing it = nerfing GWF damage without giving buffs to cover the dps loss will bring GWFS back to useless tier (worse than mod 1)
The thing is. They have to fix and not NERF DG otherwise they are forcing every single GWF to respec to a much more squishy destroyer to make 80% of the damage of a live sentinel. No way
His calculations suggest that looks like the Destroyer line AS THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW will be running at 75-80% of current DPS while the other lines (Sentinel in particular) will be at 50-60%.
With the change in efficiency of the Power stat, the damage on Preview should be, everything else equal, 125% of the damage on Live server. As the gwf loses its SotS debuff, to keep the class as wanted as it is now in parties would need to allow it to compensate for all the DPS lost by the other people in the party. Maybe like 200% of the gwf current DPS on Live server.
For the moment, with the 1% version of the 20 stacks, the charts have shown that Preview DPS is 60% of Live DPS. Will the 2% version (announced for Friday) bring the DPS up to 200% of the Live DPS? Charts will tell.
With the change in efficiency of the Power stat, the damage on Preview should be, everything else equal, 125% of the damage on Live server. As the gwf loses its SotS debuff, to keep the class as wanted as it is now in parties would need to allow it to compensate for all the DPS lost by the other people in the party. Maybe like 200% of the gwf current DPS on Live server.
For the moment, with the 1% version of the 20 stacks, the charts have shown that Preview DPS is 60% of Live DPS. Will the 2% version (announced for Friday) bring the DPS up to 200% of the Live DPS? Charts will tell.
people will keep looking at the top end (CW) because.... well duh.. it is the top end. They will keep doing it unless the CW's dps gets nerfed, which every other class is happily waiting.
would be interesting if someone explain me what is the function of gwf, destroyer or not, for module 3 before saying that the problem is the cw.
The usefulness of gwf, primarily a sword master, is zero now ... oh, I forgot, slam and wicked strike bring damage reduction ... gwf will be the king of lfg...
bring a nerf to the cw, depending on the proportion, will transform nw a double dragon (nintendo1). and even in this scenario, the gwf remains the most affected given that its quality is well failed to defender (and will be worse now without the threat brought about by damage).
in other words, the unstoppable, that people respect , will only serve to reduce the damage of the red areas that were destined for another... what not cease to be a passive stealth.
GWFs aren't somehow entitled to be better than GFs, TRs or HRs
Better, not. More DPS, yes. Gwf are not asking for more healing, or more Def, or more CC, or more debuff. As a DPS class they're asking for DPS. And that's generally speaking, when you globally consider all the classes. So far in mod3, gwf's DPS is at 50% of what the devs claim it is (allegedly it is the same DPS but now coming from IBS/FD rather than DG/SotS) and 30% of what it should be.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Certainly not. DPS is all they have. Or better said, they have nothing in other respects, and too few as far as DPS is concerned.
Better, not. More DPS, yes. Gwf are not asking for more healing, or more Def, or more CC, or more debuff. As a DPS class they're asking for DPS. And that's generally speaking, when you globally consider all the classes. So far in mod3, gwf's DPS is at 50% of what the devs claim it is (allegedly it is the same DPS but now coming from IBS/FD rather than DG/SotS) and 30% of what it should be.
So, no more gwf that kill most other classes in one rotation, while the whole enemy party is trying to kill him.....can't be that bad
So, no more gwf that kill most other classes in one rotation, while the whole enemy party is trying to kill him.....can't be that bad
l2p and farm some gear? gwfs could only kill trash geared players in 1 rotation, hunters could probably 1shot those ppl. gwf was a bit too strong but it was fixed with heal changes(threatening rush could use some changes though), you arent supposed to facetank gwf on any other class than gf, but ofc its easier just to come to forums and cry, and devs who play cw(only logical reason i can think of why cw's are holy cows of neverwinter) like crying kids so they nerf gwf damage by 50% so gwf players have reason to buy zen to reroll cw(unless they want to spend 45min in lfg during dd trying to get dungeons they overgear by a ton... AGAIN)
this gwf damage change MIGHT be ok IF they fixed cw, but atm its CW-Online again. is there any reason to play any other class in pve(unless you really want to play the class and be a dead weight to your party) ?
A new build will hopefully hit Preview at noon today. Please sink some time into testing the changes and let us know how it feels!
Thank you for the continued feedback!
it will be better for sure but think destroyer feat will become to op since it will give 40% damage boost?think it would be better if u improved at waills by some 20% and aoe encounters targets caps and damage and keeped old 20% from destroyer feat
Comments
1 - when projected that "the current gwf will be 80% of that with this change was" based on the logs, it takes into account that the base damage of all classes increased with this change in power, however, comparatively 'd be further back than we were?
Not a sarcastic question. I have this doubt.
gwf SHOULD have done that kind of dps from start, or a bit less, though it should come from other sources. GWF is either tank(smth this game doesnt need) or pure no utility aoe dps, so they should be #1 in paingiver, problem is that cw, who should be doing MUCH lower damage as a SUPPORT class(like GF and DC),and even then cw would be really strong cause cw has more utility than both of them combined, rest of classes would be balanced in terms of damage then with minor changes(tr should be doing 150% gwf dmg on single target though)
no the 80% figure is based on mathematical calculation of damage profiles, ie 50% of our dmg is being reduced to 5% with DG changes, the remaining 50% is being multiplied by the 47.5% increased dmg from the new changes (destroyer and destroyer's purpose) resulting in roughly 80% of live dmg. This doesn't take into consideration the SOTS nerf though.
on Preview all classes seem to be doing more dmg due to the power change. players who stack power benefit the most, and GWFs stack power more than anyone else due to the current DG mechanics. It's best to compare against known players/builds. ie currently my 16k+ gwf does about the same dmg as an 12k CW. with Dest purpose being doubled will need to run more dungeons to determine how well gwf stacks against cw's in terms of dmg, though i'm guessing atleast equivalent to 14k cw.
for the record my 15.5k CW is doing about 22% more dmg than he does on live, and already does more dmg than my 16.4k GWF on live.
The most unknown word in the world.
And who said that your CW should have do less dmg than your gwf...?
I do more dmg with my R7 Gwfs than R8-9 Cws so...
GWfs are tanks?
Good to know!
I pull a singu and all mobs are on me...
hmmm; i see... well ... I'll wait for the destroyer porpose reach 5% per stack, my reaping striker have the damage fixed and snakes earn wings.
you just need use the bf to have a projection of what will be gwf with +20% in this pool damage... and... meh...
it doesn't mean anything. inexperience, bad builds, bad feats, etc. Right now CW edges out GWF in dmg dealt at equivalent skill/gear, regardless of how many non-dps CWs you run with and destroy on the paingiver chart.
I was merely responding to the question if the dmg estimates from PTR took into consideration the power changes. Everyone is benefiting from the power rework, gwf who stack power most of all. So you should be careful when running dungeons on PTR and thinking, "oh look, i'm almost doing as much dmg on PTR as i am on live, so the nerf isn't that bad." Don't forget everyone else is also doing more dmg so you can't just compare PTR dmg dealt to live dmg dealt. look at any decent CW on PTR before you say the nerf isn't that bad, they are gaining as much as you are from power and aren't having to overcome at -55% dmg nerf.
Thanks for listening to our feedback.
But don't you think that makes the other tree (instigator and sentinel) irrelevant ? Will we have all to respec Destroyer to be of use in PVE ?
As others said, I think that's the base damage that should be up (either by increasing At-will and encounter damage, increaasing target cap, or removing damage debuff on multiple targets)
The buff to destroyer capstone is great, but giving other trees some usefulness would have been better
well that really is an insane idea, because bugged deep gash is what made GWF PvE viable. Fixing it = nerfing GWF damage without giving buffs to cover the dps loss will bring GWFS back to useless tier (worse than mod 1)
Not that bad - see interfade's post:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635191-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes&p=7668641&viewfull=1#post7668641
His calculations suggest that looks like the Destroyer line AS THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW will be running at 75-80% of current DPS while the other lines (Sentinel in particular) will be at 50-60%.
The thing is. They have to fix and not NERF DG otherwise they are forcing every single GWF to respec to a much more squishy destroyer to make 80% of the damage of a live sentinel. No way
With the change in efficiency of the Power stat, the damage on Preview should be, everything else equal, 125% of the damage on Live server. As the gwf loses its SotS debuff, to keep the class as wanted as it is now in parties would need to allow it to compensate for all the DPS lost by the other people in the party. Maybe like 200% of the gwf current DPS on Live server.
For the moment, with the 1% version of the 20 stacks, the charts have shown that Preview DPS is 60% of Live DPS. Will the 2% version (announced for Friday) bring the DPS up to 200% of the Live DPS? Charts will tell.
i doubt 200%
The usefulness of gwf, primarily a sword master, is zero now ... oh, I forgot, slam and wicked strike bring damage reduction ... gwf will be the king of lfg...
bring a nerf to the cw, depending on the proportion, will transform nw a double dragon (nintendo1). and even in this scenario, the gwf remains the most affected given that its quality is well failed to defender (and will be worse now without the threat brought about by damage).
in other words, the unstoppable, that people respect , will only serve to reduce the damage of the red areas that were destined for another... what not cease to be a passive stealth.
But this video was one of the best things I've seen about the game in recent months ... hahaha
the imbalance between the classes found sense after the pvp joke .
Certainly not. DPS is all they have. Or better said, they have nothing in other respects, and too few as far as DPS is concerned.
Better, not. More DPS, yes. Gwf are not asking for more healing, or more Def, or more CC, or more debuff. As a DPS class they're asking for DPS. And that's generally speaking, when you globally consider all the classes. So far in mod3, gwf's DPS is at 50% of what the devs claim it is (allegedly it is the same DPS but now coming from IBS/FD rather than DG/SotS) and 30% of what it should be.
So, no more gwf that kill most other classes in one rotation, while the whole enemy party is trying to kill him.....can't be that bad
l2p and farm some gear? gwfs could only kill trash geared players in 1 rotation, hunters could probably 1shot those ppl. gwf was a bit too strong but it was fixed with heal changes(threatening rush could use some changes though), you arent supposed to facetank gwf on any other class than gf, but ofc its easier just to come to forums and cry, and devs who play cw(only logical reason i can think of why cw's are holy cows of neverwinter) like crying kids so they nerf gwf damage by 50% so gwf players have reason to buy zen to reroll cw(unless they want to spend 45min in lfg during dd trying to get dungeons they overgear by a ton... AGAIN)
this gwf damage change MIGHT be ok IF they fixed cw, but atm its CW-Online again. is there any reason to play any other class in pve(unless you really want to play the class and be a dead weight to your party) ?
Thank you for the continued feedback!
it will be better for sure