@preechr - Are you sure they will forget? Most players will not forget about obtaining RAD, especially when they are accustomed to getting them easy anyway...
If new level 70 (players) that in time qualify for epic dungeon RQ "forget" about the normal dungeon and skirmish RQ's that is upon them, they will still be there for those that realize the possibility of getting a slightly longer normal dungeon/skirmish means very little and those that can handle RQ'ing higher content.
There are a number of improvements, essentially:
- more time for players that in the past ran 2+2 (normal dungeons, skirmishes). - less RAD in circulation. - unpopular queues popping faster since RQ's will involve "all" content of a section. - players that run higher content being rewarded for their efforts. - AFK farmers/bots will be effected. - less server issues (lag) if the number of players that claim they will stop playing in fact do. - etc.
On any given night, I will take 4 new 70s 5500+ IL from my guild and/or alliance and run the T1s on my AC/DC loadout... it doesn't take long and everybody gets 20-30k RAD in salvage, plus they are learning to fight like a team After that, the guys below 6400 IL drop out and we pick up someone that can do actual dps and we run the 4 T2 dungeons for another 30-40K RAD each
Sure, I advise new people to run their 2xdungeons, 2xskirmishes every day, but running 2 CTs and 2 MotH is more of a chore, where running the epics is actually playing the game and making an honest profit, so no, if excluded from epic RQs until they have completed SKT campaign, at least my guys will have been in the habit of making AD in other ways for so long that they will look at the small RAD reward for what will probably be a huge waste of time and skip the epic RQ, just like people that will already be qualified for it when it comes out in 12b
So, no, maybe not forget, but someone that just finished grinding out SKT (if they even bother*) won't be excited that they can finally participate in epic RQs... they will be moving on to RD and Chult and then whatever's next, and they will hopefully be running those same T1-T2 private que salvage runs with freshly 70 guildmates I really do not see an epic RQ that includes FBI and MSP being successful AT ALL, and I don't think MSVA should be included in the epic Skirmish RQ... Not because people need the RAD, but because it makes the threshold unreasonably high
*As I said in my first post, I'm pretty sure there will come a day when new players are skipping over SOMI/SKT altogether, as it really offers NOTHING other than IL from the otherwise lackluster boons and a chance at +5 rings for Con Artist pets I only bought the campaign completion for it on my DC because people in my alliance were always needing DCs for MSVA... my other toons won't be wasting their time out there, and my DC won't be wasting time fishing, questing or running HEs so he can open the chests because when we run them we do them 5-6 times in a row
SKT introduced unrealistic upkeep and variable uptimes on gear, things that no player in any game that's ever tried implementing either or both has enjoyed or appreciated, much less preferred RD weapons continued the silliness, but now that SH weapons are an option, they are BiS simply because they lack variable uptimes, even though their price is atrocious because Cryptic walled off fartouched residuum in MSP
70+ gear progression is already bypassing SKT altogether, and I think the only logical explanation for epic RQs requiring SKT completion is a sad attempt to keep that campaign relevant, which ironically will kill epic RQs instead
Dev time is precious, and imo is more wisely spent fixing broken things and building awesome new things rather than forcing users to play with broken things and building new broken things to reinforce old broken things
Chult campaign progression is a breath of fresh air, and I pray its a sign of great things to come... Unlike 10, 11 and 11b, mod 12 doesn't seem scared of making us more powerful, instead hinting we will soon be facing even tougher challenges that will require further growth... The boons are fairly straight forward and at least a little less stingy than they have been lately and the campaign offers clear and solid choices that feel a lot less grindy than anything released in the last couple of years
If Mod 13 was simply making SKT more like that, getting rid of everfrost and upkeep/variable uptime on gear, making the key situation more reasonable and the boons valuable, I doubt many would complain about a lack of new content... rather I believe if SKT were made more fun and rewarding to play through, PEOPLE WOULD HAPPILY PLAY IT (shocking, I know)
Even if that ever happened, I'd still say including MSP and FBI in epic RQs was a mistake, but maybe MSVA could fit in epic trials RQ...
All the above is just another way of explaining the same point again, so if TL, DR
I don't think new game features that are so obviously flawed should be introduced
@kieranmtorn - Even if the values of bonding stones were changed back then to what they will be after the nerf players would have STILL have done whatever it is they did to get them to r12 anyway so what is the difference? Then after Mod 12b would STILL do whatever it is they will do to get them to r13 and r14, again, what is the difference?
What it seems to be is a number of players got a taste of that OP bonding stone power and don't want to run content without it because it will be more difficult and or they spent money and additional ranks are on the way, yet no one is "really" complaining about enchantments even though they are getting additional ranks as well which furthers leans things towards OP bonding stone withdrawal...
There would have been very little difference for players to "buy up" to non-OP r12's, then buy up to r13 and r14 other than not knowing the power the OP bonding stones would have provided. Again, the players that chose to spend money did so via their own free will, a number of players got r12's via in-game work. So what's the argument, players wouldn't have spent money on "normalized" r12 bonding stones?
@preechr what you feel is "actually playing the game" and "making an honest profit" doesn't define what is. Players that play differently are playing no more, no less and make just as honest of a profit.
Players may deem XYZ boons as things other than positive though they still have their relevance and choosing to skip them is the choice of the player and also the repercussions.
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@asterdahl . I Have a question why in pvp private queue you allow to have any composition you like but you dont give rewards? Why this do not apply also to pve? To use the private queue more for testings and give no reward at all. OR if you use private queue to get rewards only if you are 1 heal 1 tank 3 dps. You create unbalance with the freedom you give to the players.
Uh, the reason "private PVE" gives rewards and private PVP doesn't is that, private or public, the PVE fights back and it's the same fight no matter if you're queueing with friends or with players from PE zone who can barely find their mouse buttons. Whereas in PVP, it's trivially easy to farm rewards infinitely WITHOUT fighting if you get to pick both teams.
(As well, tanks and healers are A) in short supply and not required for T1 or T2 dungeons unless you're wearing bad gear, just awful at Neverwinter, or both. Forcing people running T1s and T2s to take a tank AND a healer into every dungeon is just a waste of time and a disadvantage to people playing DPS classes)
Hey everyone! Thank you all for your patience the last few days, I have not had a chance to respond to the thread—but I have been keeping an eye on it. Below I've included replies to a few questions that have come up, I will be catching up with more questions as time permits.
For the meatiest part of this post—see my final response, which outlines some improvements to rewards for Spellplague Caverns (Master) which I know many of you have been hoping for.
why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues
I've touched on this already, but I'll try to be more explicit—that said—I can't promise you'll find this explanation satisfactory:
We would like you all to engage in random queues, and the bonus AD is the incentive.
If we left the AD bonus rewards as-is on the maps themselves, we couldn't also add valuable rewards to the random queues because that would mean getting both. Obviously everyone would be happy to be awarded twice as much AD, but there are factors at play that prevent us from doing that. The economy is not built to support that much AD coming in. Additionally, if we just gave out massive RP rewards for each queue, on top of the existing AD rewards, we would crush the value of RP.
I understand that for those of you who preferred to private queue you'd prefer the old bonuses were still accessible, but both the random queue feature as well as upcoming adjustments to leaver penalties and vote kicks, as well as the new player bonuses are all meant to help improve the queue culture in Neverwinter.
Right now, we don't think that culture is very good, and that's on us. First and foremost the game design informs the culture that develops in the game. For a long time, the team hasn't paid close attention to the queue culture, and so the culture has developed in its own way, with very few rules and restrictions and no incentives to help one another.
If a group looks like it's going to have a few wipes, or perhaps even be a bit slower than average, in a lot of cases, people would rather not do it. I don't blame those of you who feel like putting up with a slow run or helping new players is not worth it, because currently it's not. We're working on changing that now, but that means some bumps and some painful changes to those who were perfectly satisfied with the way things worked before.
Overall we don't see this as a play just for new players, but the gains for hardcore players are long term and harder to see. We believe that these cultural shifts will help to improve the overall skill of the player base. That means long term, less bad groups you need to leave, and less times you need to completely carry the group.
And there you have it, hopefully you can understand—even if that's not a consolation for the fact that private queues won't receive the old bonus AD.
Can you update the information in the first page to the latest version of the change? It is hard to find the new adjustment and people get confused with the old information. Thanks.
EDIT: Update to add cyan colour.
Yes! I apologize that this isn't already the case, I have been quite busy but will aim to have that updated soon!
Here is my specific question: why did you combine all epic dungeons in one random queue instead of breaking out T1, T2, and T3.
The simple answer is—that's far too many random queues. The queue system has so many affordances (ways you can interact with it) as it is, that we'd like to keep it simple. Beyond just wanting to keep the system easy to understand—there's only so much rough AD daily bonuses per day from random queues we can give out that the economy can support. We're already cutting that pie into slices as small as we feel comfortable cutting them. If they get small enough there's little motivation to run them. (Many of you are already indicating you won't feel motivated to run some of them, and of course we'll be watching the data and making adjustments.)
On top of simplicity and the amount of daily bonus rewards the economy can absorb, if we break up the random queues into something that granular, we're also talking about breaking up the pools of players. If there's tier 1, 2 and 3, you might have a lot of end game players in 3, a lot of fresh 70s in 1 and very few players in 2. We'd like to divide our queued players as little as possible so things can pop nice and quick.
This extends to also respecting your play time and not overloading people with even more dailies. If we want people to feel motivated to do all of the daily random queues and there are 10 of them, and because we divided up the pool of players looking to do queued content into even more categories—some of those queues can take a while to pop—the daily commitment for random queues is going to be way too high. When there are already lots of other dailies in Neverwinter we'd like to not exacerbate that problem.
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
At this point, it seems obvious that someone at Cryptic, probably above the Devs ordered them to do *something* to make the queues pop faster and get people to run the neglected content.
There are times when things might play out like you're describing, but I assure you this is not one of them. In my above response to kopfgeld07, I talked about the queue culture in Neverwinter and how random queues and new player bonuses are a step towards improving that culture.
The design team on Neverwinter has historically neglected things that impact the quality of the culture, and thus things are quite unrestricted right now, so this may feel like a punishment for those who are already satisfied. But punishment isn't the goal. One thing I will say is—once we get to a place where we can rely on players not always queuing manually for the fastest piece of content in a bracket, we can start to look at making overall rewards improvements that our hands were previously tied from making (by the fact path-of-least-resistance funnel that existed.)
They aren't going to make tiers because that is going to allow people to continue skipping MSP and other content that isn't rewarding
One thing I would like to take a moment to announce is that we're making the following adjustments to rewards in Fangbreaker and Spellplague Caverns (Master) for Module 12B. These are changes that we've been looking into making based on feedback, and now that you may randomly end up in Spellplague as part of Random: Epic Dungeon, we want to make sure you don't feel like you landed a dud.
Here are the pertinent patch notes that you should be seeing on preview in the not too distant future:
A piece of elven equipment is now guaranteed from both chests in Fangbreaker Island.
A piece of elven equipment is now guaranteed from both chests in Spellplague Caverns (Master).
Both chests in Spellplague Caverns (Master) now have a chance of granting an Ostorian ring.
The final boss in Spellplague Caverns (Master) now drops a Wicked Enchantment, Rank 8; as opposed to a chance of either a Rank 5, 6 or 7. (The chance of dropping a wicked enchantment has not been reduced.)
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
It's not the 11k. 11k Is trivial.
It's SKT ! I'm not going to run thought that again. The patron doesn't solve it. And the buyout token will not repay-itself, if I compare what I get as is, and compared what I will be able to gain if unlocking it.
So no, not doing random queues on my DC. And here is the issue you want to solve (especially support classes) and why it's still an issue.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
pretty much what micky1poo said above, some of your campaigns are ridiculously long to unlock the dungeon at the end, and that is fine, but needing to do that on every character you want to use to enjoy content just makes it feel awful. Mod 8 underdark was awesome because I could get demogorgon unlocked and then have it available to play on all my characters, i could fill parties that were forming as I wished because i had the dungeon unlocked on everyone without spending a month per character to unlock it like in RD and SKT.
Chult feels better somehow, though that is probably because i did the campaign first on my gwf and then went through with my DC after. But yeah, no matter what your random queue says about needing a tank class or healing class for SKT content or MSP I am not going to suffer through those campaigns again, and I think a lot of people are in that same boat, not for an extra 1k Raw ad per run lol.
Make the dungeon unlock as long as you want, lock all the boons in a campaign behind actually doing the campaign, but if you make the dungeons unlock for the whole account after you unlock it on one character I guarantee you that you will solve an awful lot of your queue culture problem, especially when combined with your new random queue incentives.
what players are mostly trying to tell you is that they would probably be fine with random queues if the classes that they play were able to queue fast to get into a dungeon, but DPS is a huge percentage of the population and tanks and healers are much less so, so no matter what your DPS exclusive players are going to be left hanging for a lot longer than they want to be. But if you give them account unlocked dungeons they will be able to un-mothball their DC or OP that they got tired of playing because it wasn't fun with the endless dailies and they will happily do dungeons on them again.
We know the queue situation very well, and long term your random queue system will probably help heal the queue situation, but it isn't going to do it fast enough or with enough impact when mod 12.5 launches to not have an impact on how much AD your casual player can earn in the limited time they can play, and so they will feel upset and then they will leave.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I know there are some problems with the rewards you want to grant for Heroes Accord, but you could relieve a lot of angst by moving FBI and mSP in with ToNG and out of the Epic Dungeon queue. Would it really be so bad if someone got a little end game progress out of FBI or mSP?
There is a wide gap between those dungeons and CN, not to mention the very long campaign requirements to unlock them that others are talking about (and shaving a week off for one character for 50k AD is just silly). Grouping FBI, mSP, and ToNG together makes so much more sense.
and to expand on what micky1poo said about the campaign completion tokens not being profitable...
If i bought the SKT campaign token for my OP it would cost me 1.5 mil AD, and then i also need to go through RD as well which would take a lot of time, and all this so that hopefully I can start making some _extra_ AD... except that i spent 1.5 mil on the SKT token because I hate that campaign so if i make 25k RAD with my OP per day because I have started playing him, lets bump that up to 35k because salvage, that means i need to play my OP every single day, and get 35k rad per day! for 43 bloody days before i start making any sort of profit off that character at all
Now tell me why the hell I would do that? why would anyone roll up a new toon if they are essentially going to be losing AD for months before they can finally start making some again and move forward. Alts are supposed to be there for extra enjoyment, not to be an extra burden.
your new patron system is great for new players who are genuinely rolling up new classes, but most of us are established and just want the alts so we have class that can fill holes in parties and perhaps make a bit of extra AD if we feel like it or have the time, my alts don't care about being BIS and getting all the boons and experiencing the campaign storyline. I've been there and done that on my main already and going through it faster on my alts is going to suck anyways especially when all i want is the dungeon... most people don't love their friends enough to go through that suffering, especially when in addition the patron tokens cost quite a large sum of campaign currency. I quit going into SKT and RD the day i finished them because there was nothing drawing my back, so now I have to spend like 3 weeks in each zone doing everything all over again, so that my alt that i just want to play sometimes can now go through the campaign faster... so essentially I am still doing the full campaign, just on 2 different characters.
for some people that system is going to be fine because they never left those zones, but remember that in the earlier campaigns that have rewarding dailies and weeklies... those campaign currencies are all used for Strongholds... so once again you are telling people to chose between their guilds and their own personal benefit. It sucks being faced with that choice and it is something that you devs have never seemed to grasp unfortunately
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Okay, that was much better a response than before. Not saying I agree with everything, but it actually addressed all of the important questions this time.
there's only so much rough AD daily bonuses per day from random queues we can give out that the economy can support
Okay I understand that splitting dungeons into multiple queues and giving them each individual rewards is too much. I am not going to random queue for T3+ for 2k AD. It just isn't going to happen. However, why do you need to split the bonus? Why not have one bonus for all the tiers? You could even give a bonus for the tier you run, but the dungeon and tier bonus can only be obtained once per day. There are ways around that problem.
I understand that for those of you who preferred to private queue you'd prefer the old bonuses were still accessible, but both the random queue feature as well as upcoming adjustments to leaver penalties and vote kicks, as well as the new player bonuses are all meant to help improve the queue culture in Neverwinter.
The main issue I have with this, is that it becomes very difficult to play with my friends. I must obey the queue restrictions, so that limits which friends I can bring, and if they disconnect, walk away from the keyboard for a minute, or start goofing off, they could get replaced. I know that this second part has been partially resolved with the increase to 5 minutes. I will have to see if that fixes the disconnecting friends getting kicked issue, but it would be nice if we had to vote-kick them before they got replaced.
One thing I would like to take a moment to announce is that we're making the following adjustments to rewards in Fangbreaker and Spellplague Caverns (Master) for Module 12B. These are changes that we've been looking into making based on feedback
What about all of the bonus loot from the keygate changes being bound? Currently FBI and etos can drop unbound bonus loot, while msp has a 100% chance of being bound. Is this actually working as intended?
there's only so much rough AD daily bonuses per day from random queues we can give out that the economy can support
I feel like I need to add another point to this. The developers do understand that everyone is bypassing this limit by sending salvage to their alts, where salvage has always been the main source of AD in the first place? It's actually possible to max your AD for the day in 1 or 2 dungeon runs if you salvage everything on the main character. This is part of why the dungeons that don't drop salvage are considered worthless (the other being bound bonus loot, or no unique reward). With 53 character slots, it is possible to refine 1.9 million RAD from salvage per day, and then transfer it back to the main toon. I actually have been doubting for awhile why the cap even exists, since we bypass it almost completely using this method.
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
Hey everyone! Thank you all for your patience the last few days, I have not had a chance to respond to the thread—but I have been keeping an eye on it. Below I've included replies to a few questions that have come up, I will be catching up with more questions as time permits.
For the meatiest part of this post—see my final response, which outlines some improvements to rewards for Spellplague Caverns (Master) which I know many of you have been hoping for.
why do you penalize old players with removing rewards from private queues
I've touched on this already, but I'll try to be more explicit—that said—I can't promise you'll find this explanation satisfactory:
We would like you all to engage in random queues, and the bonus AD is the incentive.
If we left the AD bonus rewards as-is on the maps themselves, we couldn't also add valuable rewards to the random queues because that would mean getting both. Obviously everyone would be happy to be awarded twice as much AD, but there are factors at play that prevent us from doing that. The economy is not built to support that much AD coming in. Additionally, if we just gave out massive RP rewards for each queue, on top of the existing AD rewards, we would crush the value of RP.
I understand that for those of you who preferred to private queue you'd prefer the old bonuses were still accessible, but both the random queue feature as well as upcoming adjustments to leaver penalties and vote kicks, as well as the new player bonuses are all meant to help improve the queue culture in Neverwinter.
Right now, we don't think that culture is very good, and that's on us. First and foremost the game design informs the culture that develops in the game. For a long time, the team hasn't paid close attention to the queue culture, and so the culture has developed in its own way, with very few rules and restrictions and no incentives to help one another.
If a group looks like it's going to have a few wipes, or perhaps even be a bit slower than average, in a lot of cases, people would rather not do it. I don't blame those of you who feel like putting up with a slow run or helping new players is not worth it, because currently it's not. We're working on changing that now, but that means some bumps and some painful changes to those who were perfectly satisfied with the way things worked before.
Overall we don't see this as a play just for new players, but the gains for hardcore players are long term and harder to see. We believe that these cultural shifts will help to improve the overall skill of the player base. That means long term, less bad groups you need to leave, and less times you need to completely carry the group.
And there you have it, hopefully you can understand—even if that's not a consolation for the fact that private queues won't receive the old bonus AD.
No, just no. I do not understand this, there are to many questions unanswered!
You don't want us to get RAD from private queues cause you fear the impact on economy? Fine! Reward RAD to private and random queues and cut them by half!
No word about the bag of seals? Just more ways to get seals for doing random queues? Really? What's the difference to private queues? Is the dungeon/ skirmish less harder, less competition if running private? No? So what the hell?
No word about guild quests for dungeon shards? Now you'll give us the opportunity to show our true face! Running random queues for own progression or doing private runs for shards and almost no other reward! How generous of you for giving me the decision to be either an egoist, an altruist or a denier of all this! SPLENDID!
And what happens if someone of your premade group got an OOPS! and has to restart the game? They will be bumbed and replaced with another peep! Or you are to low to make the present dungeon, what happens next? You can't switch characters like in private groups so deal with it and take the leaver penality? Thanks you very much!
Do you know what will happen to your fine and precious random queues? I will tell you: People will use them to build premade groups of five with one or more characters not having FBI or MSP unlocked to avoid these! This and ONLY this will happen!
People will always find ways to avoid your "improvements"! People will never let you force them to do stuff they don't want to do! Believe it or not, you can't controll us so stop making the game less fun!
Congratulations! You made it! Today my guild gave up and decided to leave the game. Of course i'll go with them because they're my friends but i never wanted to go. So this is seven less people playing your game due to your "game design". I hope you're happy with what you've done because i'm not. Have a nice time everyone.
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
you are the hero we needed. Thank you so much for doing this, hopefully my predictions actually pan out now.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Do you know what will happen to your fine and precious random queues? I will tell you: People will use them to build premade groups of five with one or more characters not having FBI or MSP unlocked to avoid these! This and ONLY this will happen!
If you had properly read the post you would have seen that gaming the system in this manner will not be possible. The devs have also stated that they will be working on making it so that when someone disconnects that they will have more time to log back in and rejoin before they are kicked out.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Do you know what will happen to your fine and precious random queues? I will tell you: People will use them to build premade groups of five with one or more characters not having FBI or MSP unlocked to avoid these! This and ONLY this will happen!
If you had properly read the post you would have seen that gaming the system in this manner will not be possible. The devs have also stated that they will be working on making it so that when someone disconnects that they will have more time to log back in and rejoin before they are kicked out.
So? What about being to weak and the need to switch to another class for completing the run? And why should it be impossible to have accounts with not having unlocked high end dungeons? That's pretty easy.
That's just like the devs - reading the full text and only answering half of it.
here kopfgeld07, i will quote the relevant part about not being able to game the system in the way that you describe from the original post on the first page.
Additionally, if there are any other requirements for queues such as campaign completion, you must meet those requirements as well. Simply put, you must be eligible for every queue in a random queue’s full list before you can queue. The full list will be displayed in the description of the random queue, with queues you are ineligible for sorted to the top in red. As always the specific reason you are ineligible can be viewed by selecting that queue manually.
and you are correct, I didn't address the ability to switch classes because your current team is too weak and can't beat the dungeon with that class combo. I didn't address it because that is a valid complaint that you have and I was only pointing out that you didn't bother to read and understand other portions of the random queue system before you opened your mouth. Complaining about stuff the devs have already addressed a few times in this thread just bogs them down and makes them slower in getting to your actual feedback of how you fear the random queue system will force very disparate class combos together that will largely be unable to complete the content and thus result in a lot of failed runs, wasted time and deeply unhappy players.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
This is a very welcome change (and the loot changes along with it) although in the long run I will unlock FBI on all my chars, it will help my less completionist friends. I guess in time we will see the success rates of PUGs in MSP and FBI. Perhaps they will surprise me.
I still have issues funneling level 70 chars into the leveling dungeons. A desire to fix the scaling system is a good thing but it should be bundled with the change. The atmosphere in dungeons in this game has always been toxic in Queue made and /lfg&zone pugs and if you are serious about wanting to improve the atmosphere in Epic Content, it shouldn't be done by making the situation worse in leveling dungeons. As long as the over leveled characters can ignore the mobs, they will have vastly different expectations about how to run the content.
Please fix the bugged timer in Prophecy of Madness before this change goes live.
As for the Trials, unlocking MSVA requires completion of FBI. Will this be unchanged? Also, the rewards for the different trials aren't in line with their difficulty. Demogorgon has easy keys to farm for its chest and grants tiered rewards upon completion. Tiamat gives better rewards if the Coffer level is high enough and the keys aren't hard to get. Svardborg rarely grants loot upon completion and locks its 3 chests with campaign keys that are quite honestly a chore to farm and it is by far the hardest trial. There should be additional rewards for completion if it can be a random draw and not just a means to upgrade relic weapons.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
2
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,435Arc User
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
That is great. I actually tried to get my alt character to advance SKT campaign to at least FBI ready in last weekend. After doing one set of daily, I gave up.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
here kopfgeld07, i will quote the relevant part about not being able to game the system in the way that you describe from the original post on the first page.
Additionally, if there are any other requirements for queues such as campaign completion, you must meet those requirements as well. Simply put, you must be eligible for every queue in a random queue’s full list before you can queue. The full list will be displayed in the description of the random queue, with queues you are ineligible for sorted to the top in red. As always the specific reason you are ineligible can be viewed by selecting that queue manually.
and you are correct, I didn't address the ability to switch classes because your current team is too weak and can't beat the dungeon with that class combo. I didn't address it because that is a valid complaint that you have and I was only pointing out that you didn't bother to read and understand other portions of the random queue system before you opened your mouth. Complaining about stuff the devs have already addressed a few times in this thread just bogs them down and makes them slower in getting to your actual feedback of how you fear the random queue system will force very disparate class combos together that will largely be unable to complete the content and thus result in a lot of failed runs, wasted time and deeply unhappy players.
Well, you got a point. It's 1:1 now. But this means you can't do the random queues with 5 people if one of them don't have unlocked all queues. This is even worse than my original thought.. This way you can't help new people getting RAD and seal bags from dungeons so they have to do it on their own with random queues. As a guild with high end people and a fresh lvl 70 you're screwed, this is frickin ridiculous...
@asterdahl Please tell me this is not going to happen, pretty please. New players can't rely on older players due to this, it just can't be true. 'Put a lot of fresh lvl 70s in a random queue and see what happens - The Game'? How will this help?
Well, you got a point. It's 1:1 now. But this means you can't do the random queues with 5 people if one of them don't have unlocked all queues. This is even worse than my original thought.. This way you can't help new people getting RAD and seal bags from dungeons so they have to do it on their own with random queues. As a guild with high end people and a fresh lvl 70 you're screwed, this is frickin ridiculous...
If you want AD and don't have MSP/FBI unlocked, you need to queue for a random LEVELLING dungeon.
Good news: one levelling dungeon will get you as much AD as two private epic dungeons do currently. Bad news: It's a levelling dungeon. You'll one-shot everything and be bored to tears. Good news: at least it gives a bunch of AD? And because you're one-shotting everything, it won't take all THAT long? And if you go with a friend you can just /follow them and they'll one-shot everything for you and you can go make a sandwich or something and then next time they can /follow you to even it out.
Well, you got a point. It's 1:1 now. But this means you can't do the random queues with 5 people if one of them don't have unlocked all queues. This is even worse than my original thought.. This way you can't help new people getting RAD and seal bags from dungeons so they have to do it on their own with random queues. As a guild with high end people and a fresh lvl 70 you're screwed, this is frickin ridiculous...
If you want AD and don't have MSP/FBI unlocked, you need to queue for a random LEVELLING dungeon.
Good news: one levelling dungeon will get you as much AD as two private epic dungeons do currently. Bad news: It's a levelling dungeon. You'll one-shot everything and be bored to tears. Good news: at least it gives a bunch of AD? And because you're one-shotting everything, it won't take all THAT long? And if you go with a friend you can just /follow them and they'll one-shot everything for you and you can go make a sandwich or something and then next time they can /follow you to even it out.
And if i want my bag of seals, AD and dungeon shards? At this time it's a single run and i feel rewarded for it. Doing three runs to get the same or slightly more isn't worth my time.
@asterdahl Wow you have finally seen the benefits of an account wide unlock on content.. This is great and from your post it also indicates you are going to apply it to everything else. Good job. Now let Always Summer oops Neverwinter rise.
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
I can't complain... how do I respond? Awesome change, and fixes what was going to be one of the bigger flaws in the new random queue system.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
0
therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
The design team on Neverwinter has historically neglected things that impact the quality of the culture, and thus things are quite unrestricted right now, so this may feel like a punishment for those who are already satisfied. But punishment isn't the goal. One thing I will say is—once we get to a place where we can rely on players not always queuing manually for the fastest piece of content in a bracket, we can start to look at making overall rewards improvements that our hands were previously tied from making (by the fact path-of-least-resistance funnel that existed.)
So you are basically saying that it is OUR fault that the rewards are as bad as they are? Did I get that right? You claim that if we players only ran all content equally, you weren't prevented by management from providing better rewards...? That's really strong meat...
One thing I would like to take a moment to announce is that we're making the following adjustments to rewards in Fangbreaker and Spellplague Caverns (Master) for Module 12B. These are changes that we've been looking into making based on feedback, and now that you may randomly end up in Spellplague as part of Random: Epic Dungeon, we want to make sure you don't feel like you landed a dud.
Here are the pertinent patch notes that you should be seeing on preview in the not too distant future:
A piece of elven equipment is now guaranteed from both chests in Fangbreaker Island.
A piece of elven equipment is now guaranteed from both chests in Spellplague Caverns (Master).
Both chests in Spellplague Caverns (Master) now have a chance of granting an Ostorian ring.
The final boss in Spellplague Caverns (Master) now drops a Wicked Enchantment, Rank 8; as opposed to a chance of either a Rank 5, 6 or 7. (The chance of dropping a wicked enchantment has not been reduced.)
Erm... and you really think that we rejoice because of this... improvement of rewards? Seriously, the eToS chest GUARANTEES a piece of elven equpiment, too. And I run 6 or 7 eToS (maybe more) in the same time I run a single FBI or MSP. If a chance of ostorian ring would not mean 80% +1, 10% +2, 7% +3, 2.99999999999% +4 and 0.00000000001% +5, but rather a chance several magnitues better that that for the +5, it MIGHT be an incentive. And for me personally it would be a greater incentive if the chance for the R8 enchantment was not restricted to the wicked one only, but also for the brutal.
No, all in all I do not think that a lot of the community will rejoice upon this announcement...
@asterdahl thanks for the account wide unlock, that's fantastic.
One thing I would suggest with epic random queues would be some kind of extra bonus or incentive for T3s so that if the queue pops FBI or MSP, people are more likely to go "oooh..!" instead of "nooo..!".
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Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
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Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
@asterdahl thanks for the account wide unlock, that's fantastic.
One thing I would suggest with epic random queues would be some kind of extra bonus or incentive for T3s so that if the queue pops FBI or MSP, people are more likely to go "oooh..!" instead of "nooo..!".
If people q for FBI or MSP , random q , it would be more like : " OMG, abandon the ship ! Not enough dmg ! Kick me please !"
1
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Done.
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
asterdahl just comes here and:
Bam! Done! One of the best changes mod 12b will have.
Comments
After that, the guys below 6400 IL drop out and we pick up someone that can do actual dps and we run the 4 T2 dungeons for another 30-40K RAD each
Sure, I advise new people to run their 2xdungeons, 2xskirmishes every day, but running 2 CTs and 2 MotH is more of a chore, where running the epics is actually playing the game and making an honest profit, so no, if excluded from epic RQs until they have completed SKT campaign, at least my guys will have been in the habit of making AD in other ways for so long that they will look at the small RAD reward for what will probably be a huge waste of time and skip the epic RQ, just like people that will already be qualified for it when it comes out in 12b
So, no, maybe not forget, but someone that just finished grinding out SKT (if they even bother*) won't be excited that they can finally participate in epic RQs... they will be moving on to RD and Chult and then whatever's next, and they will hopefully be running those same T1-T2 private que salvage runs with freshly 70 guildmates
I really do not see an epic RQ that includes FBI and MSP being successful AT ALL, and I don't think MSVA should be included in the epic Skirmish RQ... Not because people need the RAD, but because it makes the threshold unreasonably high
*As I said in my first post, I'm pretty sure there will come a day when new players are skipping over SOMI/SKT altogether, as it really offers NOTHING other than IL from the otherwise lackluster boons and a chance at +5 rings for Con Artist pets
I only bought the campaign completion for it on my DC because people in my alliance were always needing DCs for MSVA... my other toons won't be wasting their time out there, and my DC won't be wasting time fishing, questing or running HEs so he can open the chests because when we run them we do them 5-6 times in a row
SKT introduced unrealistic upkeep and variable uptimes on gear, things that no player in any game that's ever tried implementing either or both has enjoyed or appreciated, much less preferred
RD weapons continued the silliness, but now that SH weapons are an option, they are BiS simply because they lack variable uptimes, even though their price is atrocious because Cryptic walled off fartouched residuum in MSP
70+ gear progression is already bypassing SKT altogether, and I think the only logical explanation for epic RQs requiring SKT completion is a sad attempt to keep that campaign relevant, which ironically will kill epic RQs instead
Dev time is precious, and imo is more wisely spent fixing broken things and building awesome new things rather than forcing users to play with broken things and building new broken things to reinforce old broken things
Chult campaign progression is a breath of fresh air, and I pray its a sign of great things to come... Unlike 10, 11 and 11b, mod 12 doesn't seem scared of making us more powerful, instead hinting we will soon be facing even tougher challenges that will require further growth... The boons are fairly straight forward and at least a little less stingy than they have been lately and the campaign offers clear and solid choices that feel a lot less grindy than anything released in the last couple of years
If Mod 13 was simply making SKT more like that, getting rid of everfrost and upkeep/variable uptime on gear, making the key situation more reasonable and the boons valuable, I doubt many would complain about a lack of new content... rather I believe if SKT were made more fun and rewarding to play through, PEOPLE WOULD HAPPILY PLAY IT (shocking, I know)
Even if that ever happened, I'd still say including MSP and FBI in epic RQs was a mistake, but maybe MSVA could fit in epic trials RQ...
All the above is just another way of explaining the same point again, so if TL, DR
I don't think new game features that are so obviously flawed should be introduced
What it seems to be is a number of players got a taste of that OP bonding stone power and don't want to run content without it because it will be more difficult and or they spent money and additional ranks are on the way, yet no one is "really" complaining about enchantments even though they are getting additional ranks as well which furthers leans things towards OP bonding stone withdrawal...
There would have been very little difference for players to "buy up" to non-OP r12's, then buy up to r13 and r14 other than not knowing the power the OP bonding stones would have provided. Again, the players that chose to spend money did so via their own free will, a number of players got r12's via in-game work. So what's the argument, players wouldn't have spent money on "normalized" r12 bonding stones?
@preechr what you feel is "actually playing the game" and "making an honest profit" doesn't define what is. Players that play differently are playing no more, no less and make just as honest of a profit.
Players may deem XYZ boons as things other than positive though they still have their relevance and choosing to skip them is the choice of the player and also the repercussions.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
(As well, tanks and healers are A) in short supply and
For the meatiest part of this post—see my final response, which outlines some improvements to rewards for Spellplague Caverns (Master) which I know many of you have been hoping for. I've touched on this already, but I'll try to be more explicit—that said—I can't promise you'll find this explanation satisfactory:
We would like you all to engage in random queues, and the bonus AD is the incentive.
If we left the AD bonus rewards as-is on the maps themselves, we couldn't also add valuable rewards to the random queues because that would mean getting both. Obviously everyone would be happy to be awarded twice as much AD, but there are factors at play that prevent us from doing that. The economy is not built to support that much AD coming in. Additionally, if we just gave out massive RP rewards for each queue, on top of the existing AD rewards, we would crush the value of RP.
I understand that for those of you who preferred to private queue you'd prefer the old bonuses were still accessible, but both the random queue feature as well as upcoming adjustments to leaver penalties and vote kicks, as well as the new player bonuses are all meant to help improve the queue culture in Neverwinter.
Right now, we don't think that culture is very good, and that's on us. First and foremost the game design informs the culture that develops in the game. For a long time, the team hasn't paid close attention to the queue culture, and so the culture has developed in its own way, with very few rules and restrictions and no incentives to help one another.
If a group looks like it's going to have a few wipes, or perhaps even be a bit slower than average, in a lot of cases, people would rather not do it. I don't blame those of you who feel like putting up with a slow run or helping new players is not worth it, because currently it's not. We're working on changing that now, but that means some bumps and some painful changes to those who were perfectly satisfied with the way things worked before.
Overall we don't see this as a play just for new players, but the gains for hardcore players are long term and harder to see. We believe that these cultural shifts will help to improve the overall skill of the player base. That means long term, less bad groups you need to leave, and less times you need to completely carry the group.
And there you have it, hopefully you can understand—even if that's not a consolation for the fact that private queues won't receive the old bonus AD. Yes! I apologize that this isn't already the case, I have been quite busy but will aim to have that updated soon! The simple answer is—that's far too many random queues. The queue system has so many affordances (ways you can interact with it) as it is, that we'd like to keep it simple. Beyond just wanting to keep the system easy to understand—there's only so much rough AD daily bonuses per day from random queues we can give out that the economy can support. We're already cutting that pie into slices as small as we feel comfortable cutting them. If they get small enough there's little motivation to run them. (Many of you are already indicating you won't feel motivated to run some of them, and of course we'll be watching the data and making adjustments.)
On top of simplicity and the amount of daily bonus rewards the economy can absorb, if we break up the random queues into something that granular, we're also talking about breaking up the pools of players. If there's tier 1, 2 and 3, you might have a lot of end game players in 3, a lot of fresh 70s in 1 and very few players in 2. We'd like to divide our queued players as little as possible so things can pop nice and quick.
This extends to also respecting your play time and not overloading people with even more dailies. If we want people to feel motivated to do all of the daily random queues and there are 10 of them, and because we divided up the pool of players looking to do queued content into even more categories—some of those queues can take a while to pop—the daily commitment for random queues is going to be way too high. When there are already lots of other dailies in Neverwinter we'd like to not exacerbate that problem.
We hear a lot of you saying you're not going to be able to do the random epic dungeon right away because you're not at 11k yet. I've already mentioned getting 11k is going to be easier than ever, and our data is showing a lot of you already have a character at 11k, so we're not overly concerned about this. Gaining access to that random queue will be something to aspire to for a short while, and we think overall it won't be that time consuming for most people to get there when it goes live. There are times when things might play out like you're describing, but I assure you this is not one of them. In my above response to kopfgeld07, I talked about the queue culture in Neverwinter and how random queues and new player bonuses are a step towards improving that culture.
The design team on Neverwinter has historically neglected things that impact the quality of the culture, and thus things are quite unrestricted right now, so this may feel like a punishment for those who are already satisfied. But punishment isn't the goal. One thing I will say is—once we get to a place where we can rely on players not always queuing manually for the fastest piece of content in a bracket, we can start to look at making overall rewards improvements that our hands were previously tied from making (by the fact path-of-least-resistance funnel that existed.) One thing I would like to take a moment to announce is that we're making the following adjustments to rewards in Fangbreaker and Spellplague Caverns (Master) for Module 12B. These are changes that we've been looking into making based on feedback, and now that you may randomly end up in Spellplague as part of Random: Epic Dungeon, we want to make sure you don't feel like you landed a dud.
Here are the pertinent patch notes that you should be seeing on preview in the not too distant future:
It's SKT ! I'm not going to run thought that again. The patron doesn't solve it. And the buyout token will not repay-itself, if I compare what I get as is, and compared what I will be able to gain if unlocking it.
So no, not doing random queues on my DC. And here is the issue you want to solve (especially support classes) and why it's still an issue.
Give me account dungeon unlock, and I can actually do stuff.
Chult feels better somehow, though that is probably because i did the campaign first on my gwf and then went through with my DC after. But yeah, no matter what your random queue says about needing a tank class or healing class for SKT content or MSP I am not going to suffer through those campaigns again, and I think a lot of people are in that same boat, not for an extra 1k Raw ad per run lol.
Make the dungeon unlock as long as you want, lock all the boons in a campaign behind actually doing the campaign, but if you make the dungeons unlock for the whole account after you unlock it on one character I guarantee you that you will solve an awful lot of your queue culture problem, especially when combined with your new random queue incentives.
what players are mostly trying to tell you is that they would probably be fine with random queues if the classes that they play were able to queue fast to get into a dungeon, but DPS is a huge percentage of the population and tanks and healers are much less so, so no matter what your DPS exclusive players are going to be left hanging for a lot longer than they want to be. But if you give them account unlocked dungeons they will be able to un-mothball their DC or OP that they got tired of playing because it wasn't fun with the endless dailies and they will happily do dungeons on them again.
We know the queue situation very well, and long term your random queue system will probably help heal the queue situation, but it isn't going to do it fast enough or with enough impact when mod 12.5 launches to not have an impact on how much AD your casual player can earn in the limited time they can play, and so they will feel upset and then they will leave.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
There is a wide gap between those dungeons and CN, not to mention the very long campaign requirements to unlock them that others are talking about (and shaving a week off for one character for 50k AD is just silly). Grouping FBI, mSP, and ToNG together makes so much more sense.
If i bought the SKT campaign token for my OP it would cost me 1.5 mil AD, and then i also need to go through RD as well which would take a lot of time, and all this so that hopefully I can start making some _extra_ AD... except that i spent 1.5 mil on the SKT token because I hate that campaign so if i make 25k RAD with my OP per day because I have started playing him, lets bump that up to 35k because salvage, that means i need to play my OP every single day, and get 35k rad per day! for 43 bloody days before i start making any sort of profit off that character at all
Now tell me why the hell I would do that? why would anyone roll up a new toon if they are essentially going to be losing AD for months before they can finally start making some again and move forward. Alts are supposed to be there for extra enjoyment, not to be an extra burden.
your new patron system is great for new players who are genuinely rolling up new classes, but most of us are established and just want the alts so we have class that can fill holes in parties and perhaps make a bit of extra AD if we feel like it or have the time, my alts don't care about being BIS and getting all the boons and experiencing the campaign storyline. I've been there and done that on my main already and going through it faster on my alts is going to suck anyways especially when all i want is the dungeon... most people don't love their friends enough to go through that suffering, especially when in addition the patron tokens cost quite a large sum of campaign currency. I quit going into SKT and RD the day i finished them because there was nothing drawing my back, so now I have to spend like 3 weeks in each zone doing everything all over again, so that my alt that i just want to play sometimes can now go through the campaign faster... so essentially I am still doing the full campaign, just on 2 different characters.
for some people that system is going to be fine because they never left those zones, but remember that in the earlier campaigns that have rewarding dailies and weeklies... those campaign currencies are all used for Strongholds... so once again you are telling people to chose between their guilds and their own personal benefit. It sucks being faced with that choice and it is something that you devs have never seemed to grasp unfortunately
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
I've just implemented an account unlock for Fangbreaker Island locally and will be doing so for all other queues that require an unlock from a campaign. Once all of the unlocks are in, this change will be pushed to preview and go live alongside random queues.
The way the account unlock will work: once any character on your account has completed the task, the next time you log in on any character that's level 70—a notification will appear in the middle of your screen that looks like an achievement that will read like "Fangbreaker Island: Account Unlock"—at that point, the task will be automatically completed in the campaign and you will be able to access the queue.
For those who have already completed the task on one character on your account, please note: you must log into the character who has completed the task at least one time once the changes go live for the account unlock to register on other characters.
Will this change retroactively apply to SP, T9G, and any future campaign restricted dungeons?Wait a sec.
That's nice.
But will it work this way moving forwards?
You don't want us to get RAD from private queues cause you fear the impact on economy? Fine! Reward RAD to private and random queues and cut them by half!
No word about the bag of seals? Just more ways to get seals for doing random queues? Really? What's the difference to private queues? Is the dungeon/ skirmish less harder, less competition if running private? No? So what the hell?
No word about guild quests for dungeon shards? Now you'll give us the opportunity to show our true face! Running random queues for own progression or doing private runs for shards and almost no other reward! How generous of you for giving me the decision to be either an egoist, an altruist or a denier of all this! SPLENDID!
And what happens if someone of your premade group got an OOPS! and has to restart the game? They will be bumbed and replaced with another peep! Or you are to low to make the present dungeon, what happens next? You can't switch characters like in private groups so deal with it and take the leaver penality? Thanks you very much!
Do you know what will happen to your fine and precious random queues? I will tell you:
People will use them to build premade groups of five with one or more characters not having FBI or MSP unlocked to avoid these! This and ONLY this will happen!
People will always find ways to avoid your "improvements"! People will never let you force them to do stuff they don't want to do! Believe it or not, you can't controll us so stop making the game less fun!
You have seen this? Good job mates, good job..
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
And why should it be impossible to have accounts with not having unlocked high end dungeons? That's pretty easy.
That's just like the devs - reading the full text and only answering half of it.
and you are correct, I didn't address the ability to switch classes because your current team is too weak and can't beat the dungeon with that class combo. I didn't address it because that is a valid complaint that you have and I was only pointing out that you didn't bother to read and understand other portions of the random queue system before you opened your mouth. Complaining about stuff the devs have already addressed a few times in this thread just bogs them down and makes them slower in getting to your actual feedback of how you fear the random queue system will force very disparate class combos together that will largely be unable to complete the content and thus result in a lot of failed runs, wasted time and deeply unhappy players.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I still have issues funneling level 70 chars into the leveling dungeons. A desire to fix the scaling system is a good thing but it should be bundled with the change. The atmosphere in dungeons in this game has always been toxic in Queue made and /lfg&zone pugs and if you are serious about wanting to improve the atmosphere in Epic Content, it shouldn't be done by making the situation worse in leveling dungeons. As long as the over leveled characters can ignore the mobs, they will have vastly different expectations about how to run the content.
Please fix the bugged timer in Prophecy of Madness before this change goes live.
As for the Trials, unlocking MSVA requires completion of FBI. Will this be unchanged? Also, the rewards for the different trials aren't in line with their difficulty. Demogorgon has easy keys to farm for its chest and grants tiered rewards upon completion. Tiamat gives better rewards if the Coffer level is high enough and the keys aren't hard to get. Svardborg rarely grants loot upon completion and locks its 3 chests with campaign keys that are quite honestly a chore to farm and it is by far the hardest trial. There should be additional rewards for completion if it can be a random draw and not just a means to upgrade relic weapons.
This way you can't help new people getting RAD and seal bags from dungeons so they have to do it on their own with random queues. As a guild with high end people and a fresh lvl 70 you're screwed, this is frickin ridiculous...
@asterdahl
Please tell me this is not going to happen, pretty please. New players can't rely on older players due to this, it just can't be true. 'Put a lot of fresh lvl 70s in a random queue and see what happens - The Game'? How will this help?
Good news: one levelling dungeon will get you as much AD as two private epic dungeons do currently.
Bad news: It's a levelling dungeon. You'll one-shot everything and be bored to tears.
Good news: at least it gives a bunch of AD? And because you're one-shotting everything, it won't take all THAT long? And if you go with a friend you can just /follow them and they'll one-shot everything for you and you can go make a sandwich or something and then next time they can /follow you to even it out.
Wow you have finally seen the benefits of an account wide unlock on content.. This is great and from your post it also indicates you are going to apply it to everything else. Good job. Now let Always Summer oops Neverwinter rise.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
No, all in all I do not think that a lot of the community will rejoice upon this announcement...
One thing I would suggest with epic random queues would be some kind of extra bonus or incentive for T3s so that if the queue pops FBI or MSP, people are more likely to go "oooh..!" instead of "nooo..!".
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Bam! Done! One of the best changes mod 12b will have.