Overflow bag changes, thumbs down

greywynd · June 2017

hirogarde said:

Just had a thought on this... What about a single bag-slot for a "Gems Bag?" It could only hold those things that show up as "refinement" in the AH.

"Gems" by definition in the game seem to be enchantments, enhancements, runestones and insignias.

Unknown · June 2017

This content has been removed.

dsn1118 · June 2017

I am calling devs from here.There is a solution for this.

REMOVE THE 2XRP EVENT.

No more carrying refinement items around but then they cant make people buy more bags so no real possibility of this happening

greywynd · June 2017

Easiest fix would be to make all stacks capable of triple digits instead of maxing at 99.

litaaers · June 2017

dsn1118 said:
I am calling devs from here.There is a solution for this.

REMOVE THE 2XRP EVENT.

No more carrying refinement items around but then they cant make people buy more bags so no real possibility of this happening

The reason removing the 2X RP event won't happen is because:
1) It isn't the cause of the issue
2) People aren't stupid*

Some people believe that if they refine BtC RP during the non-2X timeframe, they feel they are 'losing' something, when in reality, they are merely just not getting an extra benefit. When these people take this idea to the extreme, they keep every piece of RP they get until a 2X RP event, and they feel burdened, as they are being 'forced' to do this.

I am NOT saying that inventory issues don't exist, or that changes shouldn't occur!!!

I AM saying that if people don't have the room right now, use the bound items as you get them. Or sell the Unbound items when you get a full stack. If you hoard, own it and don't make bigger problems for yourself.

* Standard disclaimers apply. Exceptions will occur. YMMV.

plasticbat · June 2017

They want you to buy bags. They want you to solve the storage issue. I do not expect they will ease any of these to help you to solve this issue. You need to find a way to solve this yourself. They may give you some spaces back once a while but very soon they will have a way to take them all back. Remember the useful item tab. I predicted they will take the spaces back and more. They did. Think about the recent free epic mount. I think it is a very good thing and I still do. However, my conspiracy theory side always makes me think they have a "plan".

micky1p00 · June 2017

litaaers said:

dsn1118 said:
I am calling devs from here.There is a solution for this.

REMOVE THE 2XRP EVENT.

No more carrying refinement items around but then they cant make people buy more bags so no real possibility of this happening
The reason removing the 2X RP event won't happen is because:
1) It isn't the cause of the issue
2) People aren't stupid*

Some people believe that if they refine BtC RP during the non-2X timeframe, they feel they are 'losing' something, when in reality, they are merely just not getting an extra benefit. When these people take this idea to the extreme, they keep every piece of RP they get until a 2X RP event, and they feel burdened, as they are being 'forced' to do this.

I am NOT saying that inventory issues don't exist, or that changes shouldn't occur!!!

I AM saying that if people don't have the room right now, use the bound items as you get them. Or sell the Unbound items when you get a full stack. If you hoard, own it and don't make bigger problems for yourself.

* Standard disclaimers apply. Exceptions will occur. YMMV.

Hmm wouldn't "not getting an extra benefit" will be the same as "loosing the extra benefit" when the benefit is assured ? I'm maybe not a native English speaker... but you know.....

Also some of us can actually plan ahead a bit and thus actually can afford the gear and resources to play end-game. The ability to plan ahead and not to succumb to immediate gratification is one of the things that separate adults from children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX_oy9614HQ

So being smart and actually saving stuff for when they give the most benefit, when those events are assured is not the same as hoarding.

*the video is for the marshmallows

greywynd · June 2017

If you're piling things up for later use, it's hoarding.

micky1p00 · June 2017

greywynd said:
If you're piling things up for later use, it's hoarding.

Hoarding usually refers to piling up stuff just in case they will need it. With the result of the items usually unused.
-> "lets carry this HAMSTER for unknown time, maybe to the end of time, maybe it will be useful one day"

While in this case it will be akin to investment or plainly for gain.
-> "carry around the HAMSTER for x time and you will get double it's worth"

beckylunatic · June 2017

I'd define hoarding, but Janne already did. There is a difference between keeping things because they might become more useful or valuable, and keeping things because you actually know they will be.

Real-life example, if real-life was more like Neverwinter. I save returnable cans and bottles for the deposit, and periodically take them to the depot to cash in, unless ~~beggars~~ children come around for a bottle drive first. If there was a double bottle deposit event every 4 months, I could take my bottles in more frequently than during the events, but I'd be losing money on them, because I know the event will happen when they are worth more. (It would also hellaciously back up the bottle sorters during events and probably put them out of work the rest of the year so it's a good thing life isn't like this.)

litaaers · June 2017

I see your point. I only make note of the idea that keeping nearly all of the items isn't always in a persons best interest, and each person must weigh the value gained against the cost (in this case, if the inventory space could be used better). When people ask for the game to change to accomodate a decision they make (usually one with a consequence, see: Guild Boon Plots), it doesn't make sense for the game overall.

greywynd · June 2017

micky1p00 said:

Hoarding usually refers to piling up stuff just in case they will need it. With the result of the items usually unused.
-> "lets carry this HAMSTER for unknown time, maybe to the end of time, maybe it will be useful one day"

While in this case it will be akin to investment or plainly for gain.
-> "carry around the HAMSTER for x time and you will get double it's worth"

hoard
[hawrd, hohrd]
noun
1.a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.:
a vast hoard of silver.
verb (used with object)
2.to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place:
to hoard food during a shortage.
verb (used without object)
3.to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.

micky1p00 · June 2017

greywynd said:

micky1p00 said:

Hoarding usually refers to piling up stuff just in case they will need it. With the result of the items usually unused.
-> "lets carry this HAMSTER for unknown time, maybe to the end of time, maybe it will be useful one day"

While in this case it will be akin to investment or plainly for gain.
-> "carry around the HAMSTER for x time and you will get double it's worth"
hoard
[hawrd, hohrd]
noun
1.a supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc.:
a vast hoard of silver.
verb (used with object)
2.to accumulate for preservation, future use, etc., in a hidden or carefully guarded place:
to hoard food during a shortage.
verb (used without object)
3.to accumulate money, food, or the like, in a hidden or carefully guarded place for preservation, future use, etc.

And ?

I'm not sure why you posted this. If you don't see the difference, and the nuance in the usage that I've tried to explain, try asking here, https://english.stackexchange.com/
I think they will be able to explain much better than I can.

beckylunatic · June 2017

There is hoarding like a wily and wealthy dragon, and there is hoarding like a Collyer.

pitshade · June 2017

There is also hoarding like a castle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding_(castle)

greywynd · June 2017

Because each and every definition there lists "against future use" or some variation. Which seems to not be hoarding to some.

plasticbat · June 2017

Yes, hoarding is good and we were encouraged to do so in real life because in the definition saving money for future use is considered hoarding. In real life, those refused to or do not know hoarding money usually need help when they get old.

litaaers · June 2017

I guess the negative connotation of hoarding comes about when the collection and storage of the items in question start to impede the normal functioning of the person involved.

I save plenty of RP for 2xRP. But since I get only a small amount of BtC Power/Stab/Union stones, and even fewer BtC Enchants, I tend to put them in the grinder each day.

greywynd · June 2017

When any given character can't function properly, it's time to use some of what is put up so there is room to do stuff.

urabask · June 2017

micky1p00 said:

greywynd said:
If you're piling things up for later use, it's hoarding.
Hoarding usually refers to piling up stuff just in case they will need it. With the result of the items usually unused.
-> "lets carry this HAMSTER for unknown time, maybe to the end of time, maybe it will be useful one day"

While in this case it will be akin to investment or plainly for gain.
-> "carry around the HAMSTER for x time and you will get double it's worth"

Hoarding only refers to the accumulation of a hoard which has itself has a pretty broad definition depending on the dictionary you use. If you could only accumulate a hoard for "just in case"/future use that would preclude the concept of compulsive hoarding. Compulsive hoarders hoard items due to a mental disability not because they're saving for future use.

linaduin · June 2017

I don't understand the reasons for limiting inventory at all but, even assuming that there is a reason, why not limit the number of inventory slots rather than the number of bag slots. That way any number of small, medium or large bags could be used to reach the maximum inventory. This way smaller bags wouldn't be a negative for a toon.

LOTRO's overflow system has a timer on it. Items in overflow remain there for one hour after which they expire. You have one hour from time of acquisition to get to someplace where you can deal with them before they disappear. That seemed a good system. Forgiving, but couldn't be exploited for semi-permanent storage.

greywynd · June 2017

linaduin said:
I don't understand the reasons for limiting inventory at all but, even assuming that there is a reason, why not limit the number of inventory slots rather than the number of bag slots. That way any number of small, medium or large bags could be used to reach the maximum inventory. This way smaller bags wouldn't be a negative for a toon.

LOTRO's overflow system has a timer on it. Items in overflow remain there for one hour after which they expire. You have one hour from time of acquisition to get to someplace where you can deal with them before they disappear. That seemed a good system. Forgiving, but couldn't be exploited for semi-permanent storage.

Because they make money by selling (bigger) bags.

litaaers · June 2017

Everyone should just thank their lucky stars that they chose not to include Encumbrance in NW.

linaduin · June 2017

greywynd said:

linaduin said:
I don't understand the reasons for limiting inventory at all but, even assuming that there is a reason, why not limit the number of inventory slots rather than the number of bag slots. That way any number of small, medium or large bags could be used to reach the maximum inventory. This way smaller bags wouldn't be a negative for a toon.

LOTRO's overflow system has a timer on it. Items in overflow remain there for one hour after which they expire. You have one hour from time of acquisition to get to someplace where you can deal with them before they disappear. That seemed a good system. Forgiving, but couldn't be exploited for semi-permanent storage.
Because they make money by selling (bigger) bags.

But they could make more money selling more bags or more inventory slots?

litaaers · June 2017

The current inventory/bag/slot setup is likely a combination of micro-transaction monetization and data transfer concerns. Having (potentially) unlimited inventory would create network issues if people decided to terrorize the servers by loading up and swap from zone to zone. And, as I mentioned above, Encumbrance is supposed to play a role in the fantasy world of NW.

Finally, like Y2K, they may not have planned for people to have such massive inventories, and might be trying to work around the issue.

greywynd · June 2017

linaduin said:

But they could make more money selling more bags or more inventory slots?

You can buy more inventory slots. In your personal bank.

minotaur2857 · June 2017

linaduin said:

greywynd said:

linaduin said:
I don't understand the reasons for limiting inventory at all but, even assuming that there is a reason, why not limit the number of inventory slots rather than the number of bag slots. That way any number of small, medium or large bags could be used to reach the maximum inventory. This way smaller bags wouldn't be a negative for a toon.

LOTRO's overflow system has a timer on it. Items in overflow remain there for one hour after which they expire. You have one hour from time of acquisition to get to someplace where you can deal with them before they disappear. That seemed a good system. Forgiving, but couldn't be exploited for semi-permanent storage.
Because they make money by selling (bigger) bags.
But they could make more money selling more bags or more inventory slots?

They would have made waaaay more money off me if I felt bags were value for money, or you could have paid for 3-4 bags and got one for each char on the account. If bags were half the price I'd have bought significantly more than twice as many.

plasticbat · June 2017

greywynd said:

linaduin said:

But they could make more money selling more bags or more inventory slots?
You can buy more inventory slots. In your personal bank.

You can't buy more inventory slot in the personal bank if it is already max'ed out.
If you max out personal bank slot, shared bank slot and bags, you need to find "other ways" to deal with that.

beckylunatic · June 2017

Back to the subject of what activities are impacted by items in overflow, I discovered that you cannot remove an item from the bank if an item is in overflow. Which means that sorting your inventory is impeded by the need to sort your inventory....

Yes, I had a free space. This just adds intermediate steps to the process of rearranging items in order to clear overflow inventory.

nitocris83 · June 2017

Just a heads up that I haven't lost sight of this thread. Even after announcing that M12 would bring in a new bag slot, I'll still continue to escalate concerns with how overflow changes can impact gameplay.

Overflow bag changes, thumbs down

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