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Official Feedback Thread: Guardian Fighter changes

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  • edited July 2016
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  • alaingrayalaingray Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    amenar said:

    • Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: Now only increases your damage against other player by 50%, instead of 100%. Unchanged against critters.
    Feedback: Knight's Challenge. May be, change damage up against critters by 50% too, but make KC action as Knight's Valor, i.e. permanent and deactivatable buff?
    Please, friends, discuss this.
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  • d66723225d66723225 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
    Feedback: Feat: Reckless Attacker
    In the gf class balance post it is said that there is concern about the burst damage of the gf class and consequently the burst powers have been nerfed. However in the same sentence is also said that the sustained damage of the gf is considered too low. I propose to change how this feat works from being 'struck' in combat to 'striking' in combat. This will result in less burst damage from the gf after he has been hiding behind his shield for a time while boosting the sustained damage side of things by rewarding being able to land consecutive hits. This change feels like it would suit an offensive oriented tree more. Additionally to offset the damage loss by the nerfs on a couple encounters it might be suitable to buff the percentages given by each stack of the feat to 6% damage and 3% critical strike so that the sustained damage is increased as that appears to be a goal of the gf changes.

    Feedback: Power: Weapon master strike
    Thank you for reverting the target lock changes to this power. This will keep the power nice and fluid to use. However by removing the double damage component to the main target from it without increasing its overall damage this has effectively also resulted into a loss of sustained damage. Reducing the sustained damage of the gf is contrary to what is claimed in the gf class balance post so I propose to increase its damage by 10-20%.

    I will conduct more tests regarding the updated powers once the new patch hits preview.
  • einsiegeinsieg Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    d66723225 said:


    Feedback: Power: Weapon master strike
    Thank you for reverting the target lock changes to this power. This will keep the power nice and fluid to use. However by removing the double damage component to the main target from it without increasing its overall damage this has effectively also resulted into a loss of sustained damage. Reducing the sustained damage of the gf is contrary to what is claimed in the gf class balance post so I propose to increase its damage by 10-20%.

    I will conduct more tests regarding the updated powers once the new patch hits preview.

    The goal of this Mod is also to make Cleave a viable alternative to Weapon Master's Strike. I worry that buffing WMS's damage more is going to null that entirely. If we do that, then Cleave needs to be buffed again as well.
  • edited July 2016
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  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Member Posts: 604 Arc User
    royinever said:


    Anvil of Doom

    the problem with that encounter too much dmg dealing was because of the self buffs gf could get , but now after the correct fixes to those buffs , i think double dmg for targets under 50% need to be return to not feel this encounter useless cause i think u wont see any gf use it with the current state

    Why is Anvil of Doom useless? In the end it will deal more damage than it used to. Currently it deals double damage when the target has 40% HP or less. Now it will deal double damage when under 50% HP, while half of that damage is a DoT. So actually the damage was increased.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User



    Ya, I think the ITF change is way too much. Some kind of hard cap was needed, but not a change that destroys everybody's efforts to stack Defense and DR.

    True, but i would not get it as low as it is, now there isn't much incentivation to bring a GF instead another DPS to a good self survive party, at least +10% at rank 4 buff would be reasonable.

  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited July 2016

    royinever said:


    Anvil of Doom

    the problem with that encounter too much dmg dealing was because of the self buffs gf could get , but now after the correct fixes to those buffs , i think double dmg for targets under 50% need to be return to not feel this encounter useless cause i think u wont see any gf use it with the current state

    Why is Anvil of Doom useless? In the end it will deal more damage than it used to. Currently it deals double damage when the target has 40% HP or less. Now it will deal double damage when under 50% HP, while half of that damage is a DoT. So actually the damage was increased.
    No it does not. It does the single damage plus the DoT over 5 seconds. which is pathetic. it should just be returned to an additional hit that isn't a dot and is simply an additional hit when below 50% health, so that targets are dead and they don't have a chance to heal. It is a finishing move that was meant to be used to decimate enemies, and now it is a joke over time.
    Post edited by theguiido on
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Feedback:
    Villain's Menace:

    Reducing its duration while keeping tha damage bonus ,does not decrease the DPS of the pvp GFs.While it severelly hurts pve Gfs.
    Suggestion:
    Reduce its damage bonus from 20% to 10% .Rework its time 6s +2s rank up for total 12 s.

    Feedback:
    Lunging Strike:

    This is a PVE utility/solo power that never got any attention to pvp.it never created any problem and it is a power that helps GFs in their tanking role ,especially vs bosses.
    Suggestion:
    Reduce its preview ICD from 12s to 10s

    Feedback:
    Steel Defense

    This is a PVE feature aswell.it was barely used in pvp and does not created problems.
    With the long activation/animation times of Gf class,it is never 6 s to begin with.
    Suggestion:
    Reduce its preview time ,to 3s +0.5s per rank up (4.5s max)

    Feedback:
    Tide of Iron

    This was and is a pve power ,a must for endgame GFs.
    reducing its efficiency to only affect the caster is a severe adjustment.
    Suggestion:
    Rework ToI to give 10% damage bonus to party down from 20%

    Alternatively,remove the damage bonus completely and any buff and just give it a single mark.

    Feedback:
    Commander's Strike

    Make this power lock to a target.
    it is still awkward to use .

    Suggestion:
    Shield warrior Wrath

    You missed this one ,this is a common used pvp feature.The pvp style is turtling,using ITF and then Bull+Anvil
    By playing with that style and all the DoTs around the stacks of SWW are always or near always up.rework it,people will still complain.

    Suggestion:
    Flourish

    Flourish empowered feat ,Stunning Flourish never got updated .5 feat points for 1s?And this affected by any control resistance...
    Increase Stunning Flourish to 1,5s or 2s .
    Make other builds except burst GFs viable.

    Suggestion:
    Flourish

    Either change the tooltip "blinding speed" or ,please decrease its cast time :)

    Suggestion:
    Iron Warrior

    Great power,fine as it is.if it had a lower activation/animation time.please consider to tweak it a little.

    Suggestion:
    Griffon's Wrath

    Improve its stun to 1,2s or 1,5s.now it is unnoticable...

    ------------------------------

    And finally please please can you look at the camera closing in and out bug?For anyone that does not play with default FoV55,activating ET or almost 50% of Gf powers ,makes camera to shake in to fov55 and then back to manualy set Fov.
    it is extremely irritating ,some get nausea.(me at least)

    if you have time and it is easy to fix please look into this!!! (Tr powers also have same problem,dazing strike for example,other classes have less of a problem)









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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    FEEDBACK: I'd appreciate it if the devs worked on PvE balance because no one plays PvP.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    What is the deeper sense of knights challange?
    I guess a tank with low damgeoutput is given a tool to focus his poor damage on one single target, a power to deal with solo content I would say.
    If that class already has a damage tree, wich is on par with every other striker in game, there is no need for such an encounter.
    Maybe a higher tierfeat in the tactition and protectortree schould give that power a full 100% bonus from normal 50%?
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Member Posts: 604 Arc User
    theguiido said:

    No it does not. It does the single damage plus the DoT over 5 seconds. which is pathetic. it should just be returned to an additional hit that isn't a dot and is simply an additional hit when below 50% health, so that targets are dead and they don't have a chance to heal. It is a finishing move that was meant to be used to decimate enemies, and now it is a joke over time.

    A finishing move against a PVE boss with millions of HP? Funny.

    It is still more damage in a fight against a PVE boss since the additional damage - which is said to be the same as the original one, but spread over five seconds - kicks in earlier at 50% and not 40%.

    PvP is a different story where one hit may be enough to kill - and which was the reason why it got changed I guess.
  • ortuinaortuina Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    dolrey said:

    But maybe then there will be need to improve tactician a bit more (for example add additional +5-10% to [Into the fray]).

    It may be, but not more than 10%. For four modules (M6, M7, M8, M9) many GF's have forgotten why they needs sword and shield, and have become slaves of one button. They must suffer the deserved punishment.
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    amenar said:

    Howdy ya'll, more upcoming patch notes. These should hit preview next week sometime.

    • Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Should have an easier time hitting targets at steep angles.
    • Guardian Fighter: Combat Superiority: Should no longer be prevented from proccing if you have 5 ranks in the Feat Tactical Superiority.
    • Guardian Fighter: Desperate Survival: Will no longer make you have negative Deflection chance.
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Balanced Shield Fighter: Now properly states "Aggravating Strike" instead of "Stab."
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Brawling Warrior: Now works with Rank 4 Knight's Valor.
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Grit: Now properly triggered by Crushing Surge and Fighter's Recovery.
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Powerful Strikes: Should now actually reduce the cooldown of Line Break Assault.
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Staying Power: Improved tooltip wording.
    • Guardian Fighter: Feat: Wrathful Warrior: Reworked implementation to be much more reliable.
    • Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: No longer locks you in place during activation.
    • Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: Now only increases your damage against other player by 50%, instead of 100%. Unchanged against critters.
    • Guardian Fighter: Line Breaker Assault: Activation time has been reduced to 0.7s, down from 1s.
    • Guardian Fighter: Line Breaker Assault: Now Dazes targets for 2s.
    • Guardian Fighter: Villain's Menace: Activation time reduced from 1.8s down to 1.6s, and it can now combo into other powers 0.4s early. This means if you cast Villain's Menace and immediately start activating other powers, you will be able to start them as early as 1.2s after activation.
    • Guardian Fighter: Weapon Master's Strike: Reverted the changes that increased damage to the primary target and caused you to lock on to the primary target.
    Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: No longer locks you in place during activation.

    I love you man! in a no HAMSTER fashion, just love all around !
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    I would like to second the thing about Tide Of Iron.

    Please don't remove the party benefit, this is the only reason we're slotting this at will (mostly) for boss fights.
    Giving the debuff for caster only will make this skill obsolete.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • jobsalotofworkjobsalotofwork Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 189 Arc User
    Overwhelming impact

    This protector feat is underwhelming. Could we change it too increase the cap on guarded assault from 15% of max hit points to 25% and add 5% to reflected damage, and to increase the damage from supremacy of steel. Increasing the damage of reflecting builds a bit.

    Iron guard

    This could use a buff. I was thinking add increase max hp via 2% per point of con much like the OP heroic feat.

    Surging tide

    Could we get this changed so ToI becomes a party buff again? Even if at a reduced amount this would help keep tactician competitive as a buff/debuff path.

  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    A Reworked Suggestion for Knight's Challenge:

    1. Link the damage given multiplier and the damage received multiplier to % stamina remaining.

    2. At 100% stamina, the damage given multiplier could be 2x damage (a damage bonus), along with 2x damage received (a penalty). However, at 0% stamina, the damage given is half damage (a penalty) while also taking half damage (a bonus).

    3. Make KC a 10 second buff. Every second KC drains 10% of stamina.

    How would this work in PvE builds?
    2. For GFs that run Conqueror, they will feel the effects of both 2x damage given and received. A small amount of stamina regain will keep the 2x multiplier.
    3. For Protectors who slot more stamina and might run KC in certain situations, they would run the gamut of having more damage given and received, have a longer time when their dmg given would be multiplied (more stamina period). Feats with less than 30% stamina would be useful again with KC. Also, the Protector line could be tankier at low stamina (the dmg received bonus).
    4. For Tacticians, it would be the same as Conquerors, but without the dps boost of the Conq Capstone.

    How would this work in PvP scenarios?
    1. Stamina drains and wards will have real uses against GFs. Now, the GF who wants to run KC will have to slot some Stamina Wards to prevent it from reducing dmg given down to half and become a glorified tank in PvP.
    2. It gives opposing players a mechanism to hound the GF into guard to drain stamina even more through coordinated attacks, to keep it from retaliating with a chain of control.
    3. Also, stamina gain choices by the GF would need to be made, which would eliminate other potential builds.
    4. And, just maybe, cleave with its stamina gain would be used more... I would not know really, but whatever.... just a guess.
    5. Running KC will drain stamina/guard, and open the GF up for counter attack.

    I know some guilds have sworn off the drains and wards, but they are in the game. Why not make it more interesting in PvP. It would take skill to use KC and to attack against it.
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    eion311 said:

    Feedback: Enforced Threat (Target cap reduced to 10, down from 20.)
    Why is this change even needed? If it is actually going to be put on live, I'd like to see an additional change. Remove the terrible mechanic of my marked targets losing their mark if they hit me.

    I certainly wouldn't mind. It's not difficult to keep a mark up against a single target, but when you've got a pack of trash and they all insist on running behind you to stab you in the back, I really wish that didn't make the marks drop.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    It seems rather clear that they want to see less SM and more IV . As an IV Protector I am still waiting to see something that makes it a much better choice as a tank ty. With my base 20k Defense and 45 AC I still can do all the same stuff on my 8 k Defense and 18 AC toons so what it the point in stacking either of them when you cant see any real difference. And with the armor in this game everyone can run around with over 100k health so again whats the real point in all of this if you dont do anything to Protector to make it a nicer option ?
  • varixo#7114 varixo Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Ok, all cool (or no) but what with GF shield bug?
    Bug: Sometimes I click Shift and then shiled rises up with delay 1-2s or never... it is main cause why I dead on Orcus and on rest bosses...
  • edited July 2016
    This content has been removed.
  • puravidacrpuravidacr Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    kemi1984 said:

    I would like to second the thing about Tide Of Iron.

    Please don't remove the party benefit, this is the only reason we're slotting this at will (mostly) for boss fights.
    Giving the debuff for caster only will make this skill obsolete.

    + This and the other multiple times it has been mentioned in this thread
  • ilsilenziosoilsilenzioso Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Hi all.

    I'd like to see an improvement on Protector path, because is weird that the tank path of a tank class is the less used.

    I have a suggestion about the capstone.

    Now is: Iron Guard- with every melee hit on an enemy, you reduce its damage by 5%. Maximum 20% damage reduction.

    My suggestion: additionally, you builds threat when struck by a foe.
    additionally, you and your allies (maximum 4) deals 5% more damage on marked enemies.

    So, the capstone will now provide incoming damage reduction, a little damage buff (but only on marked target) and, most important, the gf will be able to build a lot more threat.

    I'm thinking at pve, and don't know if this can be too much for pvp, but maybe a dedicated pvp player can figure out.

    Regards
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    macjae said:

    A Reworked Suggestion for Knight's Challenge
    *snip*

    I think reworking that power to make it more complex is far more effort than it's worth. The only really necessary change is a bonus reduction in PvP, which they're already giving it (going from 100% bonus to 50% against players).

    The change you're proposing also works out to be a boost in both ends in the hands of a decent GF. The GF gets to decide when to apply his double damage. Then someone else would counterattack and the GF's block would go down? The problem with your model in this case is that the GF's risk factor by losing his block gets reduced, because he'll take less damage, culminating in half damage without stamina. That means losing his block isn't going to be that much of a penalty in the end. The half damage also wouldn't be an effective penalty, as the GF would presumably time his big burst attack to occur with the full bonus, not with the penalty applied.

    You would effectively be reducing the risk, which is low to begin with, but which is still one of the things that makes this a special and interesting power. If anything, if they make any further changes to this power, it should be to reinstate a little of that risk factor to it, by removing the ability to toggle it off. Or maybe a modification of your idea: Have it drain some stamina while active, without changing the bonus either way. That would put it more in line with the original risk/reward factors (being that it was designed when GF block could be worn down by damage, draining stamina over time definitely emulates that, and it originally couldn't be toggled off).

    However, ultimately, it's presently a simple and effective power that's useful in some situations in PvE, but broken in PvP. The minimum possible amount of change to get it to a well-balanced state is generally preferable to a more complex mechanical rework.
    Yeah, suggestion is completely untested. Just throwing it out there. Something more complex that is unique to the GF's stamina/guard feature would be interesting. It would make how the GF plays in both PvP and PvE and how those who play against the GF in PvP a much more complex interaction. Basically, if KC drains stamina, then its usage becomes nuanced. Hence, the suggestion... The complexity may make its use be less, but really... Who knows...

    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    .

    theguiido said:

    No it does not. It does the single damage plus the DoT over 5 seconds. which is pathetic. it should just be returned to an additional hit that isn't a dot and is simply an additional hit when below 50% health, so that targets are dead and they don't have a chance to heal. It is a finishing move that was meant to be used to decimate enemies, and now it is a joke over time.

    A finishing move against a PVE boss with millions of HP? Funny.

    It is still more damage in a fight against a PVE boss since the additional damage - which is said to be the same as the original one, but spread over five seconds - kicks in earlier at 50% and not 40%.

    PvP is a different story where one hit may be enough to kill - and which was the reason why it got changed I guess.
    Yeah my point being, literally just take out the DoT and just make it do additional single damage not over time when at 50% instead of double damage
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    d66723225 said:

    Feedback: Feat: Reckless Attacker
    In the gf class balance post it is said that there is concern about the burst damage of the gf class and consequently the burst powers have been nerfed. However in the same sentence is also said that the sustained damage of the gf is considered too low. I propose to change how this feat works from being 'struck' in combat to 'striking' in combat. This will result in less burst damage from the gf after he has been hiding behind his shield for a time while boosting the sustained damage side of things by rewarding being able to land consecutive hits. This change feels like it would suit an offensive oriented tree more. Additionally to offset the damage loss by the nerfs on a couple encounters it might be suitable to buff the percentages given by each stack of the feat to 6% damage and 3% critical strike so that the sustained damage is increased as that appears to be a goal of the gf changes.

    Feedback: Power: Weapon master strike
    Thank you for reverting the target lock changes to this power. This will keep the power nice and fluid to use. However by removing the double damage component to the main target from it without increasing its overall damage this has effectively also resulted into a loss of sustained damage. Reducing the sustained damage of the gf is contrary to what is claimed in the gf class balance post so I propose to increase its damage by 10-20%.

    I will conduct more tests regarding the updated powers once the new patch hits preview.

    Or because of the Fray nerf leave it the way it is. They can then add an increase to critical severity by 3% and add a 10% combat advantage damage at the end feat how the path specifically says in it's description lol

    a 1% increase to damage and critical chance would be a nice touch(6% increase to damage, 3% increase to critical chance a 3% increase to critical severity, and then just have a 10% combat advantage damage increase when you slot 1/1 for reckless attacker.) but for now that shouldn't receive any kind of nerfs to burst damage. Especially after the fray nerf. If they made it so you have to hit the target then they should add critical severity and combat advantage as well as an increase to damage and critical chance.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
  • theguiidotheguiido Member Posts: 467 Arc User
    mroczpal said:

    Ok, all cool (or no) but what with GF shield bug?
    Bug: Sometimes I click Shift and then shiled rises up with delay 1-2s or never... it is main cause why I dead on Orcus and on rest bosses...

    +1 to this, this has been a problem for me since mod 5.
    Proteus
    Guardian Fighter
    TLO
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
    Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
This discussion has been closed.