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Official Feedback Thread: Guardian Fighter changes
amenar
Member, NW_CrypticDev Posts: 90 Arc User
Sorry for the delay everyone. For more details on the how and why of the changes, please check out the dev blogs.
Feedback Desired
We’d like you all to focus on playing the class in various content and giving us feedback. There are many changes that are meant to work together as a whole, so we'd appreciate feedback after playing with the changes, more than just reactions to the patch notes themselves.
If you find a bug or have feedback, please follow the guidelines below when posting:
• Respond to this forum post.
• Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
• Format: Please use “Bold” face text for the Type & Spec then type your feedback in the body of your post. If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use BLUE.
• (Bonus: Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Examples:
Bug: Power: Enforced Threat
This power seems to have no effect
Here are the patch notes:
Feedback Desired
We’d like you all to focus on playing the class in various content and giving us feedback. There are many changes that are meant to work together as a whole, so we'd appreciate feedback after playing with the changes, more than just reactions to the patch notes themselves.
If you find a bug or have feedback, please follow the guidelines below when posting:
• Respond to this forum post.
• Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
• Format: Please use “Bold” face text for the Type & Spec then type your feedback in the body of your post. If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use BLUE.
• (Bonus: Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Examples:
Bug: Power: Enforced Threat
This power seems to have no effect
Here are the patch notes:
- Aggravating Strike: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
- Anvil of Doom: Increased the delay between when you activate the power and when you can swing again by 0.3s. The amount of time between when you activate the power and when you can move is unchanged.
- Anvil of Doom: No longer deals double damage to targets below 40% health. Instead, deals full damage again over 5 seconds to targets below 50% health.
- Anvil of Doom: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
- Anvil of Doom: Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 16s.
- Bull Charge: This power was unintentionally receiving 20% more damage per rank up, instead of the stated 10% per rank up. This has been corrected, however, the base damage of the power has also been increased ~10%. Net change at Rank 4 is a damage reduction of ~10%.
- Cleave: Cone radius increased to 200°, up from 180°.
- Cleave: Now generates 5% of your Stamina per swing, as long as you are hitting at least 1 target.
- Combat Superiority: No longer grants 10% bonus damage to the target. Instead, now grants 5% bonus damage to the target and the target will deal 5% less damage to you. Ranking up this power will now increase both of these effects by 1% for every rank.
- Combat Superiority: No longer lasts 5s for each Rank of the power. Instead, lasts 8s at all ranks. Additionally, Rank 5 of the Conqueror Feat Tactical Superiority will no longer cause this effect to be "always on."
- Commander's Strike: Increased the damage at Rank 1, and decreased the damage bonus gained for Rank Ups to 10%, down from 15%. Net effect is ~10% more damage at Rank 1, and a very slight damage increase at Rank 4.
- Commander's Strike: Now generates Action Points at roughly the same rate as other Encounter powers, instead of generating no Action Points.
- Commander's Strike: Now has an activation time of 0.8s, instead of having no activation time.
- Commander's Strike: Range reduced to 12', down from 13'.
- Commander's Strike: Recharge time increased to 12s, up from 10s.
- Commander's Strike: Reworked the buff this power provides. First, instead of triggering the one-shot bonus damage from any damage dealing power, it now only triggers from Encounter powers, insuring a decent amount of damage is dealt. Second, instead of only working against the specific target that was hit by Commander's Strike, it now triggers when hitting any Marked target. This should make it easier for your allies to find an appropriate target to get the benefit. The buff duration is no longer increased by ranking this power up.
- Commander's Strike: This power is now properly affected by damage bufs, debuffs, and damage resistances.
- Crescendo: Increased the damage of the first for hits by 25%. This has increased the overall damage of this power by ~10%.
- Crushing Surge: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
- Desperate Survival: Increased the HP threshold at Rank 1 to 35%, up from 30%. This means at Rank 4, the threshold is now 50%, up from 45%.
- Desperate Survival: Now grants 3% Deflect chance at Rank 1, up from 1%. Fixed the tooltip to not say 1/2/3%. This means the amount of Deflect granted at Rank 4 is now 6%, up from 4%.
- Enduring Warrior: In addition to its existing effects, now also increases the amount of healing you receive.
- Enforced Threat: Damage increased ~50%.
- Enforced Threat: Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 15s.
- Enforced Threat: Target cap reduced to 10, down from 20.
- Enforced Threat: Updated the rank up information to show that this power gains an additional 10% damage per rank. This is the existing behavior, and this is just a display change.
- Feat: Improved Reaction: No longer shared with the Great Weapon Fighter. Replaced with a new Feat, Iron Focus. Has the same effect on Ferocious Reaction as Improved Reaction did, but also grants Frontline Surge a chance (100% at max rank) to Taunt and Mark affected targets. The Great Weapon Fighter Feat Improved Reaction is unchanged.
- Feat: Jagged Blades: Now actually deals the amount of damage it states. Previously, this power did about 2/3 of the stated damage. In addition, it deals this damage over 10s, instead of over 15s.
- Feat: Powerful Strike: In addition to its current effect, now also causes Line Breaker Assault to lower its recharge time for every target hit.
- Feat: Staying Power: This debuff should now last the same length as the base debuff provided by Weapon Master's Strike.
- Feat: Tactical Superiority: No longer causes Combat Superiority to be "always on" at Rank 5 of this Feat. Instead, now grants a 1% damage bonus per rank at all times.
- Ferocious Reaction: Base cooldown reduced to 3 minutes, and rank ups now only reduce the cooldown by 30s. This means the cooldown at rank 4 has been decreased to 90s, down from 120s.
- Ferocious Reaction: Updated the tooltip to clarify that the damage resistance buff lasts 10s, not 5s as previously stated.
- Flourish: Damage increased ~12%.
- Flourish: Now requires a target to activate, so you will be less likely to miss.
- Flourish: Range increased to 18', up rom 17'.
- Flourish: Recharge time reduced to 13s, down from 14s.
- Frontline Surge: Damage increased ~34%.
- Frontline Surge: Increased the delay between when you activate the power and when you can swing again by 0.2s. The amount of time between when you activate the power and when you can move is unchanged, and now matches the swing delay.
- Frontline Surge: Is now properly considered AoE damage.
- Frontline Surge: Now affected by the newly renamed Protector Feat, Iron Focus (previously Improved Reaction). This Feat now grants a chance (100% at max rank) to Taunt and Mark affected targets.
- Frontline Surge: Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 19s.
- Griffon's Wrath: No longer gains bonus charges when ranking up. Instead, starts with 3 charges at Rank 1, and gains damage on rank up.
- Griffon's Wrath: Now refills a charge every 12s, down from every 15s.
- Griffon's Wrath: Now requires a target to activate, so you will be less likely to miss.
- Griffon's Wrath: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
- Indomitable Strength: Damage increased ~8%.
- Indomitable Strength: Increased the damage debuff to 20%, up from 10%.
- Indomitable Strength: Range increased to 15', up from 11'.
- Into the Fray: No longer increases damage by a percentage of your damage resistance. Now grants a flat +15% damage bonus, + 5% more per rank.
- Into the Fray: Now also increases the amount of Temp HP conversion with each rank up.
- Kneebreaker: Now deals an additional burst of damage on the first hit. This has increased the total damage dealt by this power by ~17% at Rank 4.
- Kneebreaker: Now deals damage every 1s, instead of every 0.5s, but the damage per tick has been doubled. This change has no effect on the total damage dealt, just the number of combat floaters on the screen.
- Kneebreaker: Now requires a target to activate, so you will be less likely to miss.
- Kneebreaker: Range increased to 12', up from 11'.
- Line Breaker Assault: Activation time has been reduced to 0.8s, down from 1s.
- Line Breaker Assault: No longer gains bonus damage based on the number of targets hit, and now gains 10% bonus damage per rank instead of 20%. However, the base damage has been increased greatly, such that damage at Rank 4 has been increased by ~43%.
- Line Breaker Assault: No longer generates additional AP when hitting multiple targets.
- Line Breaker Assault: No longer generates damage resistance based on the number of targets hit. Instead, always grants 10% DR. Additionally, this buff no longer increases in duration as the power is ranked up.
- Line Breaker Assault: Now Dazes targets for 1.5s.
- Line Breaker Assault: Now has a range of 30', up from 25'.
- Line Breaker Assault: Now has a target cap of 5, down from 10.
- Line Breaker Assault: This power has had a large overhaul in functionality. Instead of dealing damage in an area around the end of your movement, you now deal damage to the targets you move through. It gains additional benefit from the Tactician Feat Powerful Strike.
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Comments
It's not listed so I'll assume it's a bug. WMS is 'snapping' to primary target, focusing camera on it and accordingly moving GF to face enemy. This change makes WMS hits highly uneffective versus smaller and sparser groups of enemies. I'd prefer to hit 'between' enemies and hurt both of them, instead of being focused on one and do nothing to other enemy. Camera movement makes GF vulnerable to crowd control effects. Positioning is crucial for surviving, the split seconds required to move mouse toward threat may decide about life and death.
Feedback: Power: Weapon Master Strike
WMS is a strictly AoE at-will, in one enemy fight it's used solely to apply debuff, making it deal more damage to single target is pointless and making it snap to primary target is a really, really bad idea.
Solution: Make WMS deal equal damage to all targets (preferably the secondary target damage), and do something with this awful snapping.
Feedback: Power: Tide of Iron
Tide of Iron: The Damage Resistance debuff now only applies for the caster, instead of the entire party.
This literally kills this at-will, debuff was the only reason why people used it, it's a garbage now and increasing damage won't help. Lower the debuff but please don't make it caster-only.
Feedback: Power: Steel Grace
I absolutely love this change, the speed bonus is gonna help GFs catch up to party, better initiate fights and dodge red spots. Crit and Deflect bonuses are also really convenient, this two are the hardest to stack on GF. All I'd want to see now is an appropriate artifact offhand bonus to it, for example additional 2.5% run speed.
Bug: Power: Desperate Survival
Slotting Desperate Survival turns deflect chance into negative.
*Bug report with screenshots*
On the other hand, it doesn't make a bad case for speccing back into IV to have Threatening Rush again.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Quite a few changes here, but the one that really makes me cringe is the cooldown increase. Players are using this power for utility, and making it castable less often reduces the GF's mobility. I also keep it feated on my Tactician build for quick interrupts and synergy with
Pin DownCrushing Pin (I get these feat names mixed up). Being able to interrupt a target on short notice is really important in solo play when you don't have the instant-DPS to do stuff like keep the black dragon dudes from hulking out. I'm not really enough of a high-end player to pull that off (nor using a crit-DPS-oriented Conq build), but I've been able to compensate for the lower damage capacity of a Tactician with positioning and timing.Maybe we're supposed to replace it with Linebreaker, which was initially poorly received. I suppose that's worth a shot.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Awesome change,but not for the right power.GFs are slow snails and thus both Iron Vanguards and Sword Masters should have this,not just SMs.
ps:Theres no option to use blue color,im not familiar with this "simple html".
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Tide of Iron: The Damage Resistance debuff now only applies for the caster, instead of the entire party.
This is totally unnecessary. Tide of Iron also has a rather long animation, and there is a risk to use it.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
This Power is still bugged to where you are still un-immune to certain control effects like stun, daze, or disables. Activation time is way too long as this hinders the 10s you get with this Daily. This has been a big issue for a very long time.
Feedback: Power: Anvil of Doom
Making this a DoT can be easily cancelled out by healing. Instead, change it to when your target is below 50% Health do an additional hit of full damage in a single blow. This would still Nerf Anvil of Doom and quite frankly id be fine with it and so would every other GF because this is our finisher. @amenar That would make it a lot better.
Feedback: Power: Into The Fray
Increase the base damage buff of ITF to a flat 35% so each additional additional rank is a 10% increase to Temp HP, Run Speed +3, and 5% Increase to Damage (Max Damage is 50%). This is ideal because you have already made GF's build no longer revolve around defense. Here is why I suggest these changes happen.
Additionally, I would love to see run speed increased to 3 from 2, as the GF is naturally slow, it would be good if this happens knowing ITF will still be somewhat Viable.
Temp HP doesn't serve any purpose at all. I don't even think it procs Wrathful Warrior, but it should be raised to 40% of your max HP (Similar to the Paladins Templars Wrath)because this would make ITF a significant buff to use after the Major nerf.
These changes provided for this Encounter Power would make it ideal to use and would make ITF more than Viable.
Feedback: Power: Griffions Wrath
Increase the stun time of Griffons Wrath
Bug: Daily: <b class="Bold">Indomitable Strength
Perhaps this was fixed with the increased range, but the problem is that it misses the target you are aiming at so that you often drain your action points and do the animation, but the actual daily does not happen. Please fix this.
Bug: At-will: Threatening Rush
Often when the target moves you are (most of the time) doing the animation of threatening rush, but never hitting the desired target. A fix to this would probably to increase the range on it, as trying to hit a target now is very annoying.
Example: Troll is moving to SW because of agro. Troll is moving, I am following the troll, I use
Threatening Rush to go to him, I never see the mark debuff on the target, nor did I see any kind of damage at all, all I see is the animation.
Bug: Daily: Crescendo
Exactly Like Indomitable Strength, you use the daily, the animation goes, AP is lost, but you never see the actual damage nor prone nor stun work.
Bug: Feat: Grit
I have tested this a lot. It seems to never work with neither mine nor a clerics healing spells. This feat seems to be bugged. I never gain any Temporary HP, nor do I ever see "Grit" on my screen.
Bug: Feat: Pin Down
You do not even notice the .3 seconds at all. Such a minimal difference it should be changed. Increase the feat to .5/0.5/1. It needs a complete rework.
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PATH FEEDBACK
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT @amenar @terramak @strumslingerProtector Path: The Damage Reduction of Iron Guard is very annoying to obtain. We HAVE TO hit the target to reduce their damage to us and allies. You should make it where when we are hit and when we hit an enemy their damage is reduced by 5% (Stacking up to 5 times) 25% or 1/4 damage reduced. To tank, their should be an added bonus of some sort, like their is on the Conquerer tree (DPS) (10% Crit at 5 stacks on top of the 25% damage buff), like an added bonus of Damage Resistance and Deflection at the end feat on top of Iron Guard.
For example: (Additionally, each time you are struck in combat Gain up to 10% Damage Resistance and a 10% Deflection Chance) 1% each time you are struck in combat stacking up to 10%. Each hit to you would add 1% to Damage Resistance and Deflection Chance up to 10%. I played a Protector for 4 Modules, and I feel this "Tank" tree is at a major DR disadvantage, as well as not used by many for the fact KV is very laggy. And people prefer buffs/ support on the TACTICIAN tree.
Most people want Tac tanks for PvE and Conq tanks for PvP but never Protector Tanks. Could we see something Change with "Iron Guard"? Since after all the Protector Tree is the TANK tree. Especially fighting bosses, it's a pain in the butt when all we can really do is reduce their damage. Deflect helps, but the DR we would gain at the end feat would help, and would really help in PvE. Change something about this please.
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Conquerer Path: Overall, the feats in this are outstanding. I love it for PvP, as well as doing some damage in PvE. However, some of these feats are a little outdated and some simply do not need to be there. Below I have listed the ones viable and the ones that simply do not need to be there and why.
Feat: Cruel Cut Style: This is put at the top of the list for the fact that Cleave as a move over all is absolute ****. I can see why you would want to increase the damage by 15% and an additional 5% with the artifact Class Feature. This At-Will either needs to be seriously looked at, or removed because it sucks. What this should be replaced with is Piercing Surge: Crushing Surge now deals 3/6/9/12/15% more damage. Since Crushing Surge is the best At-Will we have.
Feat: Reinforced Surge: This should be completely replaced with Battle Trample for the Iron Vanguard as Battle Trample is a more DPS aimed feat. The Tactician Tree is all about stuns and keeping foes where they ought to be and Reinforced Surge would be a great addition to the already "Terrifying Menace" Feat to accompany it. Simply literally switch Battle Trample with Reinforced Surge.
Reckless Attacker: Keep the added benefits when ever you are struck gain a 5% increase to damage and a 5% increase to Critical Chance, But also add some form of Critical Severity and Combat Advantage to the end Feat. The Conquerer's Path Description is all about heavy blows, critical, and combat advantage. Nowhere is there Combat Advantage on the Path. Nor any form of increasing Critical Severity. So the description for Reckless Attacker would be this,
When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker.
Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and critical chance by 2%, and critical severity by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up 5 times. Additionally, your utilization of Combat Advantage is increased by 10%. This would be the best option and would make up for Into the Frays significant nerf.
At 5 stacks this equals, 25% increase to damage, 10% increased Critical Chance as well as 10% Critical Severity, and Combat Advantage is universally increased by 10% (Kind of like a boon if you get what I am saying).
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I don't even know where to begin with Tactician, since the nerf on Fray you should probably add a lot more to this path and Protector path more than anything else. They need some love. They really do.
All I can say is that these are some LONG STANDING issues and you need to rethink the Protector and Tactician and some parts of the Conquerer path as well.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Destroying everything else like Tide of Iron only harms the class's usefulness for the party.
I'd like to see a redesign of the God awful Protector tree and a revamp of the Tactician tree rather than a boatload of nerfs to Conquerer. It's very obvious that you only want GFs to tank. That's fine. But give us some tank functionality. A capstone that reduces enemy damage? Garbage. Contributes very little to our overall survival. I'd like to see a second double huge post with buffs and reworks to Protector and Tactician rather than one list nerfing the class into oblivion.
I mean, it's just silly. The sentinel tree is better designed in that regard, though it just doesn't work for the GWF in it's current form.
That is a hug list of changes! How can there possibly be a need after 3+ years to make so many changes to a class? Its like you have changed 2/3rds of all the abilities. If I had to make such a long list of changes to one of my pieces of work after 3 years, I would be embarrassed. This is not sending a good message out to the playing group. How can you be certain of the effects of so many changes? Can't you simply change a few of the abilities causing issues and fix a couple of bugs. Is there really a need to fiddle with everything? This type of approach will be bad for the game, as a player I find this list overwhelming to understand. I suggest you reduce the change log considerably and focus on the key "problems" and fix those.
Bug: Power: Lunging Strike
Damage has also been decreased by 25%, either you have not listed that or it is a bug
Comment - why nerf LS, it is not overly powerful, it is a necessary utility for pugging with a GF to catch up with other faster classes. It definitely does not need a damage nerf.
Absolutely agree with this. The only reason to slot this is for the debuff. If you give cleave a 5% stamina increase there is no reason to slot this skill at all. There is no point debuffing for our meagre DPS, especially after the nerfs you are proposing. Also the GF needs to keep some party debuffs available as you are also removing most of the ITF buff. If you cripple this class too much you will lose players.
Comment - Enforced Threat
the increased damage is good, it somewhat offsets the ITF nerf and help with aggro. But is it necessary to reduce the numbers it affects by 50%.
I read the post on how Cryptic decided to buff the HR based, on how its powers and pathways were being utilized or not being utilized. And perhaps, you did the same thing with the GF. But, the list (with 35 separate powers and paragon feats) is overwhelming. And, as the reports roll in on the changes showing bugged features, against the design they are supposed to have, theory crafting, based on what is available, will be very difficult.
Finally, the changes are not minor. The proposed changes are not merely a removal of bugged or overpowered buffs, but a redesign of the GF class (once again), causing a shift in play style. Perhaps the devs do not understand that a mere respec token will not make GFs viable with the new changes. Artifact powers, gear, artifacts, insignias, enchants, etc, might need to be switched to have the GF fit into the role that is available for it. This is no small cost of time, effort, and...most likely...money. Some players will have the resources to do it instantaneously. Others, perhaps not, and may abandon the class altogether.
Adapting to the new meta, as Bethel urged, is one thing. Swinging back and forth on a pendulum every few modules (mod 4, mod 6, mod 10) is another. Boredom does not come from familiarity with the class, but with the lack of end game content.
Because I love the GF, I will continue playing it, to find a way to be viable in a role that exists somewhere in all of those changes, but I caution the developers that such dramatic shifts are unwelcomed.
Thanks for reading!
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
Almost all GFs are completely and utterly built around maximizing their Defense and Damage Resistance. On themselves and their companions. I'm still in shock...
I believe this is not devs' initial intends ,for it only reviews its negative effect when a few opportunist start to exploited it in pvp.
I understand that devs have already put great amount of effort and time on class balance, and I also aware that a totally balanced game shall never be created. But I could hope, I hope that with myself and all the other loyal players' feedback, devs could pay a bit more attention on knight challenge's potential , and make a complete patch at the release of the next Mode.
Thanks for your efforts, only work together shall we make Neverwinter Online a more outstanding game among all the other MMOs.
hmm... now lets see... most of the players has 150~200k HP hmm.... what do you think...?
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Blocking after activating this removes a charge and puts it on cooldown, even if blocking right away.
Feedback: Knight's Challenge
Considering how much of a double edged sword this encounter is, I don't see how it has to be changed.
I personally don't like, or use it, but I have no problem escaping from GF's whenever they choose to target me with it, unless there are some massive CC effects at work, in which case, I'm usually going to die anyway.
If Knights challenge gets nerfed, hopefully Devs will add some burst to other classes so there is a challenge for GWFs