ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
@vortican The way @asterdahl explained it was that the Masterwork Professions would require resources only made available to people who could complete quests given out via the Explorer's Guild. While these resources are sellable on the AH, they're only available through the Explorer's Guild which means you either have to be part of a guild with a high level Stronghold, or possible pay exorbitant prices on the AH.
And I don't think that's very fun...to start an epic quest to craft the very best things you can, to be at the pinnacle of your profession...by raiding...the Auction House...what a letdown.
When Underdark goes live for Neverwinter, guilds with high-ranking strongholds will find a new contact, “The Artisan,” who offers quests for crafters who have raised a given profession to Rank 25. These quests are long, difficult, and require a number of new resources. Many of these resources will only be available through explorer’s charts, a new consumable item available from high ranking explorer’s guilds
Again, so many roadblocks to Masterwork Professions...they might as well not exists if your required to have a high ranking explorer's guild to even get started...
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited October 2015
I will reserver full judgment on these posts for preview and final releases. But my first impressions are that of general disappointment.
I will first state the things I like as IDEAS and PLANNED content in module 8: 1) Variety in a boss-encounter that will require attention and team work to finish (although it didnt work out so well in Tiamat when there was no variety... I mean...it has been a year and still people stand on the clerics and aggro mobs and breath attacks to them...). 2) Unbounded rewards and implementation of a more liberal trade bar market
And....that is about it.
Here is what I am disappointed about: 1) More arti weapons and/or arti gear (rings???) that may (or may not obsolete current arti gear AND mod 8 drops that are bound)
2) Putting the Mastercrafting behind a Guild Boon Structure that some guilds will not build or would not choose as one of the first 2 structures (GH9) AND doing this after some guilds have already built two boon structures (*cough..being too elite works against you as well*) and who might have to make a painful choice to do it as a third structure (GH13) or tear one built and start over (to the waste of millions in AD). This is not exactly SEEMLESS integration between Mod 8 and Mod 7.
3) Locking out Mastercrafting as a normal means for players of every play style to participate (call it a grind wall, a pay wall, a play wall, or whatever).
4) The documented interview that gives the impression that mod 8 AND FUTURE MODULES will follow the same pathway as integrated old content with grinding, HEs, and the like, as if it ENRICHES the players experience. This is probably the most depressing statement in the whole interview and in the plan of the release. Integrating WotC modules is one thing. Integrating them by putting a few HEs and quests in old zones is another.
5) No new dungeons (Demogorgon is not a dungeon).
6) No announced return of OLD dungeons.
7) There seems to be a choice between continuing on in campaign progress OR using the achieve refinement as an AD source. This means the 'new AD source' would only be for those who have completed the campaign and have no more need for the refinement items.
"Astral Diamonds Conversion – This task is available after you have completed processing Faerzress. It will convert a quantity of Faerzress into 4000 rough astral diamonds. It requires 600 Faerzress, 150 Demonic Ichor and 20 hours. It is repeatable."
8) The 2xRP status of arti weapons does not solve the issue of the refinement problem with all arti gear. It is a means of alleviating the fact that new arti weapons replaces OLD arti weapons, and that is it. But, the 6Mil+ rp is still needed, and if the new rings are also Arti gear, that will be 2 more sinks in the game.
The announced module, by all appearances from the interview and the short dev responses, seems intent on reducing the casual nature of this game and continuing down the trajectory of transforming Neverwinter into the hardcore only, grind games of yesteryear.
I am hoping that my measured response here can be useful to Cryptic that such a pathway has already reduced the enjoyable content in the game and the continued progress down such a path will erode it further. Please reconsider.
from the interview it seems like more strongholdish grind for professions, more artifacts ppl are sick of, more elemental shitfusion gear, basically more of same HAMSTER that made 80% of players leave already
@ironzerg79 I can understand feeling let down if you're not into the guild thing or find it intimidating to build the structure in order to get those resources more expediently. I'm not sure how my own guild will handle it. However, we do not know what the prices on the AH will be. I imagine the resources will be expensive in the beginning but fall as more supply reaches the market as it happens with most things. However, it sounds like the way the designers' envisioned this is true; they did not intend it to be something everyone took advantage of. Many players don't even bother with professions. The doofae abusing leadership to generate tons of AD certainly didn't. It may be high-level content but high-level hardcore players deserve interesting content as well. Not everyone was able to successfully navigate Castle Never either. Should it have been abolished or toned down so that everyone could play it?
Heck, I've been playing this game since the beginning of beta and I'm STILL riding a damn slow HAMSTER horse. I could save my AD and buy a mount or whip out the credit card and pay for it, but I choose to focus on other things. Am I jealous of all the wallet warriors who have orange everything or do I accept that I will never get there, because I'm sure as hell not investing the time it takes to grind that HAMSTER out or paying out the HAMSTER for the reward of top end uber-gear. It's just a choice. There SHOULD be a huge mountain to climb to get epic stuff. It's hard enough getting professions to level 25. If you're going to invest the time to do masterwork professions, let it be a challenge. It's only one aspect of this mod.
I am much more concerned about the campaign itself. If it's a massive grind like getting your last Tyranny of Dragons boons or getting from level 60 to 70, it will be disappointing. Otherwise, I'm OK with some stuff being out of reach of players who aren't willing to invest the time or resources required (like me for some things) and that includes Strongholds.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
@vortican I agree it should be a challenge, but they're aiming the challenge at the wrong group of people. In my opinion, crafting should be a gear route for those who aren't part of large guilds.
With how crushingly expensive it is to upgrade Stronghold stuff, especially after the the first few levels, there's no logical reason to invest in a subpar boon structure (in place of one of the more powerful ones) in order to have the privilege of a long grind towards crafted gear. The guilds even capable of this feat are far better off just investing in the more powerful boons and fighting Demogorgon for the BEST gear, instead of settling for ALMOST the best gear via crafting.
So it doesn't make sense. They're giving the crafting route to those small groups of players who benefit the least from it.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
What they need to do is go into all enemy drop tables and replace some of the random green items with green, unbound stronghold currency vouchers. At the very least, this will make running all this content provide a better source to aid your stronghold.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
7) There seems to be a choice between continuing on in campaign progress OR using the achieve refinement as an AD source. This means the 'new AD source' would only be for those who have completed the campaign and have no more need for the refinement items.
"Astral Diamonds Conversion – This task is available after you have completed processing Faerzress. It will convert a quantity of Faerzress into 4000 rough astral diamonds. It requires 600 Faerzress, 150 Demonic Ichor and 20 hours. It is repeatable."
And that does not matter because it is only a drop of the bucket because there is 400 Demonic Ichor weekly cap. If you put everything for AD, you can get only 10666 AD per week. They make it sounds like a big candy. "There are new ways to make AD". No, it is so small that you can't taste anything.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
level 1: green level 2: blue level 3: purple level 4: orange level 5: cyan
seems to fit perfectly.
I'd like to dispel any speculation that these new rings will be artifacts, they will not. The only way to obtain higher ranks of these rings is to get them to drop. The higher the rank, the stronger the effect.
I was extremely hopeful at the thought of Masterwork crafting being a meaningful, alternate path for character advancement, and it seems like those hopes are being crushed. Please reconsider.
"When Underdark goes live for Neverwinter, guilds with high-ranking strongholds will find a new contact, “The Artisan,” who offers quests for crafters who have raised a given profession to Rank 25."
Does this mean that if i'm not part of a big guild, I won' t be able to progress?
Is that another joke? Like those 8k stat stronghold buffs i'll never get, no mather how much money I invest in that piece of garbage code you call a game? Please explain why, as a member of a small guild, I should keep on playing?
the BoE equip at the end of the process, in order to not let Bots sell them devs have tied those items to a uber high/useless SH building than Bots will take ages to develop
While there are certainly tough design decisions that sometimes need to be made in order to prevent or mitigate exploiting and bots, the decision to tie masterwork professions to strongholds and make it difficult overall was not one of them.
The design decisions made were exclusively to provide crafters with an endgame that was difficult, required cooperation with other guild crafters or trade deals and auction house management. In addition, there is a lack of worthwhile items with high sell values for crafters to create right now. By making these tasks difficult and requiring a heavy investment from the crafter, we can also balance that payoff to be worthwhile.
the 400 Demonic Ichor weekly cap is following the same path, and serve as a imposed artificial block to the rushers in order to make the new campain last 2 months instead of 35 days (or more 'cose we all know that doing 2 months straight of HE/10 men raid to get the boons is unhuman and very few of us will keep the track).
Actually, the choice to move to a weekly cap on ichor was one designed to improve the experience for players. While you'll get a daily bonus for running a particular piece of content indicated by the campaign window, you have the freedom to choose between running a little bit of content every day or running a lot of content in a small number of days.
In this way, your equipment progression isn't tied into the campaign with daily tasks gating you back from progressing. You won't have lost an opportunity to progress towards new equipment if you happen to not be able to play for a few days.
@ghoulz66 I understand and I am disappointed too with no new dungeons. But I had much fun with shore of tuern and some fun with Kessel, so it is some new content to be happy for me.
the BoE equip at the end of the process, in order to not let Bots sell them devs have tied those items to a uber high/useless SH building than Bots will take ages to develop
While there are certainly tough design decisions that sometimes need to be made in order to prevent or mitigate exploiting and bots, the decision to tie masterwork professions to strongholds and make it difficult overall was not one of them.
The design decisions made were exclusively to provide crafters with an endgame that was difficult, required cooperation with other guild crafters or trade deals and auction house management. In addition, there is a lack of worthwhile items with high sell values for crafters to create right now. By making these tasks difficult and requiring a heavy investment from the crafter, we can also balance that payoff to be worthwhile.
the 400 Demonic Ichor weekly cap is following the same path, and serve as a imposed artificial block to the rushers in order to make the new campain last 2 months instead of 35 days (or more 'cose we all know that doing 2 months straight of HE/10 men raid to get the boons is unhuman and very few of us will keep the track).
Actually, the choice to move to a weekly cap on ichor was one designed to improve the experience for players. While you'll get a daily bonus for running a particular piece of content indicated by the campaign window, you have the freedom to choose between running a little bit of content every day or running a lot of content in a small number of days.
In this way, your equipment progression isn't tied into the campaign with daily tasks gating you back from progressing. You won't have lost an opportunity to progress towards new equipment if you happen to not be able to play for a few days.
You're taking away freedom from players by restricting the amount of progress they can make in a week. Then you're trying to imply you're giving them more freedom : |
On the French forums, moderators said that some old dungeons will come back at the Mod 8 launch. Can you please confirm this? If this is true, why you didn't start talking about this at the begining of the dev blogs?
People are upset from all this announcments because they wanted dungeons so hard... It would have been a stepfor restoring the faith, and make mod 8 as a savior, instead of loosing hope and making him another "I will skip it" like stronghold pvp is.
oh just great add another clutter into our "Limited" packbags with 2 new sets of armors and various weapons???
Devs, we dont have much room in our bags. tired of going over my bags finding outdated items or discard something that i dont want to lose. say NO to vouchers in our bags! these got to move to currencies or new inventory tabs.
Masterwork professions tied to high level strongholds building ??????? .. Are you ******** kidding us ?. Yet another part of the game that a large part of your playerbase will never see. Please don't do this. I get that you want it to be difficult and rewarding, but difficult shouldn't mean "imposible".
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
They contain difficult new recipes for high-quality items that are competitive with equipment from content like epic dungeons and the Greed of the Dragonflight. Think of masterwork as endgame for professions..
Compete with SH gear, meaning it's an option for solo player to NOT get left in the dust. But nvm, they will be left out, if you gate them behind SHs.
Sorry for "bashing" you this way, but, again and from my own PoV, your team is doing a really big mistake ignoring "solo" players and small and medium guilds on all this "revamp" of the game.
+1
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited October 2015
The problem is...you're designing content for your players, right?
So you have Masterwork Professions. Up to this point, professions have been something that's been open to everyone who plays the game...And the endgame was already a bit exclusive because of the requirement of Mithral Tools to craft what competitive end game gear there is.
Now you're spending a lot of time and resources to add a new, more meaningful level of progression to Professions, aimed at allowing people to craft competitive end-game gear. Which is awesome. It also sounds like you're adding a lot of quests and hoops to jump through, which is also actually a good thing...it makes those who chose to follow that path more dedicated to their chosen path...which is again, a great thing.
Now here's the problem.
First gate: Level 25 profession. This makes sense. No problem here.
[Maybe Second gate: I'm assuming you'll need high level tools. They're not crazy expensive anymore, but it's still going to gate people out of the content who don't have them. But I'll give you a pass here because we don't know.]
Second gate: You need to be part of a guild, or at least have access to a Stronghold. You've just cut another slice off the population that can participate.
Third gate: You require the Stronghold guild to have built and Explorer's Guild to readily obtain the resources. That slices off even more people, since you have to be part of a guild, with a high enough level Stronghold that has an Explorer's Guild. And yes, I know you said resources could be sold on the AH but then...
Alternate third gate: You're holding people hostage to said small slice of players who are a) Part of a guild b) Have a Stronghold high enough to get the Artisan to show up c) Invested in an Explorer's Guild and d) Are willing and enable to put stuff up on the AH for sale.
So you're just gated off that content you've invested time and resources in, with the hopes of getting a return in the form of more player investment in the game, yet you're limiting who can participate...which makes no sense at all.
The Underdark announcement talked about exciting new features, and Masterwork Professions was one of them...with a big asterisks next to it now...*Not all players will qualify to participate.
That's a real bummer because the system, from what I can see on the Preview initially, looks really cool.
If only other MMO's had done similar gating of endgame content, excluding it from a large portion of their playerbase .
Ohhh wait, there is this kinda succesfull game called World of Warcraft. Wanna know when their playerbase exploded ?? . After launching the Wrath of the Lichking expansion. An expansion that made content alot more accesable to all kinds of players and playstyles.
Please learn from others mistakes, no need to repeat them
If only other MMO's had done similar gating of endgame content, excluding it from a large portion of their playerbase .
Ohhh wait, there is this kinda succesfull game called World of Warcraft. Wanna know when their playerbase exploded ?? . After launching the Wrath of the Lichking expansion. An expansion that made content alot more accesable to all kinds of players and playstyles.
Please learn from others mistakes, no need to repeat them
Ah, raiding Naxx & Ulduar, good memories in a good guild.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
level 1: green level 2: blue level 3: purple level 4: orange level 5: cyan
seems to fit perfectly.
I'd like to dispel any speculation that these new rings will be artifacts, they will not. The only way to obtain higher ranks of these rings is to get them to drop. The higher the rank, the stronger the effect.
Comments
And I don't think that's very fun...to start an epic quest to craft the very best things you can, to be at the pinnacle of your profession...by raiding...the Auction House...what a letdown.
I will first state the things I like as IDEAS and PLANNED content in module 8:
1) Variety in a boss-encounter that will require attention and team work to finish (although it didnt work out so well in Tiamat when there was no variety... I mean...it has been a year and still people stand on the clerics and aggro mobs and breath attacks to them...).
2) Unbounded rewards and implementation of a more liberal trade bar market
And....that is about it.
Here is what I am disappointed about:
1) More arti weapons and/or arti gear (rings???) that may (or may not obsolete current arti gear AND mod 8 drops that are bound)
2) Putting the Mastercrafting behind a Guild Boon Structure that some guilds will not build or would not choose as one of the first 2 structures (GH9) AND doing this after some guilds have already built two boon structures (*cough..being too elite works against you as well*) and who might have to make a painful choice to do it as a third structure (GH13) or tear one built and start over (to the waste of millions in AD). This is not exactly SEEMLESS integration between Mod 8 and Mod 7.
3) Locking out Mastercrafting as a normal means for players of every play style to participate (call it a grind wall, a pay wall, a play wall, or whatever).
4) The documented interview that gives the impression that mod 8 AND FUTURE MODULES will follow the same pathway as integrated old content with grinding, HEs, and the like, as if it ENRICHES the players experience. This is probably the most depressing statement in the whole interview and in the plan of the release. Integrating WotC modules is one thing. Integrating them by putting a few HEs and quests in old zones is another.
5) No new dungeons (Demogorgon is not a dungeon).
6) No announced return of OLD dungeons.
7) There seems to be a choice between continuing on in campaign progress OR using the achieve refinement as an AD source. This means the 'new AD source' would only be for those who have completed the campaign and have no more need for the refinement items.
"Astral Diamonds Conversion – This task is available after you have completed processing Faerzress. It will convert a quantity of Faerzress into 4000 rough astral diamonds.
It requires 600 Faerzress, 150 Demonic Ichor and 20 hours. It is repeatable."
8) The 2xRP status of arti weapons does not solve the issue of the refinement problem with all arti gear. It is a means of alleviating the fact that new arti weapons replaces OLD arti weapons, and that is it. But, the 6Mil+ rp is still needed, and if the new rings are also Arti gear, that will be 2 more sinks in the game.
The announced module, by all appearances from the interview and the short dev responses, seems intent on reducing the casual nature of this game and continuing down the trajectory of transforming Neverwinter into the hardcore only, grind games of yesteryear.
I am hoping that my measured response here can be useful to Cryptic that such a pathway has already reduced the enjoyable content in the game and the continued progress down such a path will erode it further. Please reconsider.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
guess im skipping til mod9, armored warfare it is
Heck, I've been playing this game since the beginning of beta and I'm STILL riding a damn slow HAMSTER horse. I could save my AD and buy a mount or whip out the credit card and pay for it, but I choose to focus on other things. Am I jealous of all the wallet warriors who have orange everything or do I accept that I will never get there, because I'm sure as hell not investing the time it takes to grind that HAMSTER out or paying out the HAMSTER for the reward of top end uber-gear. It's just a choice. There SHOULD be a huge mountain to climb to get epic stuff. It's hard enough getting professions to level 25. If you're going to invest the time to do masterwork professions, let it be a challenge. It's only one aspect of this mod.
I am much more concerned about the campaign itself. If it's a massive grind like getting your last Tyranny of Dragons boons or getting from level 60 to 70, it will be disappointing. Otherwise, I'm OK with some stuff being out of reach of players who aren't willing to invest the time or resources required (like me for some things) and that includes Strongholds.
With how crushingly expensive it is to upgrade Stronghold stuff, especially after the the first few levels, there's no logical reason to invest in a subpar boon structure (in place of one of the more powerful ones) in order to have the privilege of a long grind towards crafted gear. The guilds even capable of this feat are far better off just investing in the more powerful boons and fighting Demogorgon for the BEST gear, instead of settling for ALMOST the best gear via crafting.
So it doesn't make sense. They're giving the crafting route to those small groups of players who benefit the least from it.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Does this mean that if i'm not part of a big guild, I won' t be able to progress?
Is that another joke? Like those 8k stat stronghold buffs i'll never get, no mather how much money I invest in that piece of garbage code you call a game? Please explain why, as a member of a small guild, I should keep on playing?
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
The design decisions made were exclusively to provide crafters with an endgame that was difficult, required cooperation with other guild crafters or trade deals and auction house management. In addition, there is a lack of worthwhile items with high sell values for crafters to create right now. By making these tasks difficult and requiring a heavy investment from the crafter, we can also balance that payoff to be worthwhile.
Actually, the choice to move to a weekly cap on ichor was one designed to improve the experience for players. While you'll get a daily bonus for running a particular piece of content indicated by the campaign window, you have the freedom to choose between running a little bit of content every day or running a lot of content in a small number of days.
In this way, your equipment progression isn't tied into the campaign with daily tasks gating you back from progressing. You won't have lost an opportunity to progress towards new equipment if you happen to not be able to play for a few days.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
You're taking away freedom from players by restricting the amount of progress they can make in a week. Then you're trying to imply you're giving them more freedom : |
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
On the French forums, moderators said that some old dungeons will come back at the Mod 8 launch. Can you please confirm this? If this is true, why you didn't start talking about this at the begining of the dev blogs?
People are upset from all this announcments because they wanted dungeons so hard... It would have been a stepfor restoring the faith, and make mod 8 as a savior, instead of loosing hope and making him another "I will skip it" like stronghold pvp is.
add another clutter into our "Limited" packbags with 2 new sets of armors and various weapons???
Devs, we dont have much room in our bags. tired of going over my bags finding outdated items or discard something that i dont want to lose.
say NO to vouchers in our bags! these got to move to currencies or new inventory tabs.
Are you ******** kidding us ?.
Yet another part of the game that a large part of your playerbase will never see. Please don't do this.
I get that you want it to be difficult and rewarding, but difficult shouldn't mean "imposible".
Compete with SH gear, meaning it's an option for solo player to NOT get left in the dust. But nvm, they will be left out, if you gate them behind SHs.
So you have Masterwork Professions. Up to this point, professions have been something that's been open to everyone who plays the game...And the endgame was already a bit exclusive because of the requirement of Mithral Tools to craft what competitive end game gear there is.
Now you're spending a lot of time and resources to add a new, more meaningful level of progression to Professions, aimed at allowing people to craft competitive end-game gear. Which is awesome. It also sounds like you're adding a lot of quests and hoops to jump through, which is also actually a good thing...it makes those who chose to follow that path more dedicated to their chosen path...which is again, a great thing.
Now here's the problem.
First gate: Level 25 profession. This makes sense. No problem here.
[Maybe Second gate: I'm assuming you'll need high level tools. They're not crazy expensive anymore, but it's still
going to gate people out of the content who don't have them. But I'll give you a pass here because we don't know.]
Second gate: You need to be part of a guild, or at least have access to a Stronghold. You've just cut another slice off the population that can participate.
Third gate: You require the Stronghold guild to have built and Explorer's Guild to readily obtain the resources. That slices off even more people, since you have to be part of a guild, with a high enough level Stronghold that has an Explorer's Guild. And yes, I know you said resources could be sold on the AH but then...
Alternate third gate: You're holding people hostage to said small slice of players who are a) Part of a guild b) Have a Stronghold high enough to get the Artisan to show up c) Invested in an Explorer's Guild and d) Are willing and enable to put stuff up on the AH for sale.
So you're just gated off that content you've invested time and resources in, with the hopes of getting a return in the form of more player investment in the game, yet you're limiting who can participate...which makes no sense at all.
The Underdark announcement talked about exciting new features, and Masterwork Professions was one of them...with a big asterisks next to it now...*Not all players will qualify to participate.
That's a real bummer because the system, from what I can see on the Preview initially, looks really cool.
Ohhh wait, there is this kinda succesfull game called World of Warcraft. Wanna know when their playerbase exploded ?? .
After launching the Wrath of the Lichking expansion. An expansion that made content alot more accesable to all kinds of players and playstyles.
Please learn from others mistakes, no need to repeat them
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............