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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › Player Feedback (PC)

People complain about the Warlock, but have them actually played the Hunter Ranger?

arcofortep12arcofortep12 Member Posts: 2,265 Arc User
edited September 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
It seems the most horrific class. It gives you the chance to play melee with a tree but you just can't: how can you pursue your opponents? How can you actually evade attacks (AoE) when melee? Lifesteal isn't going to save you there (get hitted and you are dead). And why have you high Critical Severity when you can't ever Crit enough?
I wanted to try Combat but I just deleted mine new toon after watching that Feat tree, it make me shiver. Something in Combat can make some sense for PVP (but one can't create a toon just for half content) but without an ability tu pursue opponents it's just a waste of time resources.
It's all about Roots, get out of Roots and everything become unplayable. As a CW I can play all trees (except Oppressor against a boss is useless), as a a GWF the same (maybe Sentinel is less attracting now, useless against a boss too), as a DC the same, GF the same. I cannot say to have played SW for now but it clearly share the same fate of the HR, only one tree playable and STRONG (far more than the best of an HR in PVE, less so in PVP), one decent for PVP but not for PVE and the other completely broken.
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- All I say it's just my opinion. Peace. -
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Post edited by arcofortep12 on
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Comments

  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    I have not played my HR much since Mod 6, but before then it was extremely powerful, in PVE and especially in PVP. I did not have much trouble with the issues you mention.

    Can't speak to post level 60 or other Mod 6 / Mod 7 changes.
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

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  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    HRs are horrible at lower levels, and or with bad gear. I'm afraid it's also pretty much trapper or nothing for pve and pve, though some brave pve types still go archer. Get a good build for crit and lifesteal over 3k item level however, and you can really do some damage in both pve and pvp.

    Expensive though, especially these days.

    Oh yes. It's also pathfinder for tne win.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    HRs are a lot easier to play than SWs, the reason you aren't doing well is because you are playing it wrong. The combat is indeed the survability tree and if you dress it to a 2k-2,5k you will have no issue with survability. But the real true is that at the end, even when you can play succesfully all 3 paths, trapper beat on DPS the archers thanks to root damage and at same time beat the combat on survability because of the almost perma daze with the rigth rotation, so you can play all the trees but there is one tree that beat the other 2 on every aspect. My main is a trapper and my 2nd toon used to be a templock, now logically I just can play the HR because SWs was almost removed as playable class after Mod6. Ive tried all i could with my SW, first continue as a templock and I level him like that to 70 and it didnt matter what I did it was still useless. Then I've moved to fury and I've managed to deliver more damage but with 2,2 IL it was still useless trying to solo the mini dungeons. The only way you was supposed to play the SWs after Mod6 it was abusing a glitch with the pet as I didnt feel like paying for a respect just to be able to be a cheater I just ignore him (now he is even more useless as I can't even use him as a leadership toon).

    So to the OP, after playing both toons on the different configurations I can tell you that HRs is so much better than SWs that they aren't even close to be on same category, but probably thats because now SWs cant even reach the green companion category.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    can't say for PvE as I haven't seen too much of them there, but when I see them, they do OK damage. (maybe about 70% of top paingiver usually), however in PvP they can be very different, the bad HRs are soooooooooo easy to kill, but the good HRs would give you a lot of headache... it has a lot to do with gear/build/skill and experience. :)
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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    For solo PVE even combat HRs are better than SWs...
  • s1lv3rdrgnforums1lv3rdrgnforum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 264 Arc User
    My opinion? I disagree with almost everything in this thread. Yes, Trapper is the way to go. Yes, HR is largely dependant on skill. SW and HR are neither bad classes or underpowered. Lifesteal is awful since mod 6 .. when you take a tree that is all about lifesteal .. expect it to suck. in PvE - for the most part - GWF, CW, HR, TR and SW (all dps classes essentially) are all pretty much around the same level. CW and GWF shine more or less depending on the dungeon. GWF/TR is still king of single target while CW/SW still do a ton of AoE. Trapper HR really fits in somewhere in the middle with a lot of CC. All classes suck at lvl 10... ;)
    Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR
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    Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    I find my fury SW and my archery HR can do about the same amount of damage, except for one little thing. My fury SW can survive much better than my HR can, mostly due to lifesteal. When my HR only has 5.5% and the SW has 23.8% it makes a big difference. Now my other HR and SW are both not easy to play, but that is more because of lack of gear. Once geared they should play much better. They are a trapper and temptation. Now granted, none of these are my mains, so.....
  • xeezertxeezert Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 29 Arc User
    When mod 6 began I struggled with my archer and decided to turn her into a trapper and I hated it so I bit the bullet and went full archer again. What worked for me solo wise was stacking HP and running with a healer companion (I use angel). In groups as long as a capable tank is pulling the aggro it's pretty easy to put up decent numbers and stay alive. This is my favorite toon to play, currently.

    I also had a combat HR and prior to the lifesteal changes he had insane survivability. Once that was gone, I didn't have much success with him anymore. I tried many different combos of stacking deflect, HP or life steal but one can only tinker so much so he became a trapper.

    Idk, I kinda feel like trapper is a faceroll spec (cycle encounters/tab/cycle encounters/tab) and don't really enjoy playing it as much as the other hr trees which feel more dynamic. Not to say they don't bring value to a party, because they certainly do.

    I'm glad others have gotten combat to work. I just couldn't pull it off and ran out of patience trying. If the devs ever see fit to adjust the feat tree I'll certainly give it another go.
    Dragons are ruining my life.
  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    what'd ya expect from a class who's 1st encounter power is run away.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    HR is really strong, you just need to know how to play it. Ask @jaegernl for advice, I am sure he is willing to help out :p
    (I know hes going to hate me for bringing him up here, when he eventually reads this :p)
    Our Imaginary Friends are better than yours.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    arcofortep12 said:

    You made valid points but please don't go off-topic. This thread is about the Combat tree. I already know that Archery and Trapper are somewhat viable with the latter doing some damage near to a TR level (both are the weakest strikers in Neverwinter but at least TR are strongers in single target), more so since you are just pew-pewing... but I wanted to play a Combat Hunter Ranger and I don't see any point in doing it. Since it's a melee fighter where is the Sprint of a GWF/SW or the roll of a TR? How can it evade AoE with that ridicolous Shift instead of Sprint/Roll? How can it pursue itsue opponent if they can Sprint and he could only walk? SW get Sprint even if it's a ranged class, how HR it's supposed to deal with it? It's bound to lose all the action in PVE and have the necessity to shift to ranged stance, where it has absolutely no buff, in PVP.

    Well, Oppressor CW is quite bad and temptation warlock outright sucks. In every class there are particular paths which are "not so great" the point is, there is a way to build hr that is viable. Saying HR sucks and then saying you only mean the combat path is a bit silly because there are still ways to build it. If you want to build it the worst way and then complain because the worst way is bad, that is up to you.
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  • blinxonblinxon Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    thefabricant said:

    Saying HR sucks and then saying you only mean the combat path is a bit silly because there are still ways to build it. If you want to build it the worst way and then complain because the worst way is bad, that is up to you.

    Best answer so far B)
    Congratz


  • solerrosolerro Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    thefabricant said:



    Well, Oppressor CW is quite bad and temptation warlock outright sucks. In every class there are particular paths which are "not so great" the point is, there is a way to build hr that is viable. Saying HR sucks and then saying you only mean the combat path is a bit silly because there are still ways to build it. If you want to build it the worst way and then complain because the worst way is bad, that is up to you.

    This... when you see HR's at the top of PvP and HR's at the top of DPS in PvE while in the same stroke SW generally gets demolished in PvP and rarely tops DPS in PvE with equivalent gear scores/skill.

    I've played both, SW is generally woefully behind with exception of a glitch, the problem is that glitch requires your ghost pet and can generally HAMSTER off your tank with aggro issues, and the rest of the party if said aggro issues spin the dragon and get everyone tail whipped in LoL etc.

    Saying a class does well once they are overgeared is silly. All classes do well once they are overgeared, the difference is that I could solo content on all my other classes without serious issues at level 70. SW without a strong healer pet and planning out your attack approach can be an exercise in frustration. Even then you will feel like molasses compared to your other characters.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2015
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  • blinxonblinxon Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    arcofortep12 said:

    Nope, Oppressor is very good. I played it with great success both in PVP and PVE. It's only problem is it can't DPS Bosses (but still is a good debuffer and very good mobs controller)..

    Opresser is very good in PVE? Untrue.
    And SW can match the DPS from a GWF? Maybe i play a different game...
  • mattsacremattsacre Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    The biggest trick with the melee tree is ironicly to keep changing stance out of melee, you massively improve your dps etc if you sitch back and forth between a range stance and melee, read the descriptions for jebeezs sake. You vastly increase DPS percentages when you do so.

    If I give you 200 dps per shot every 2 sec., and I give you 200 dps per swing every 2 sec. your dps is 100sec. BUT if you change stance and you get a boost of 5% or 10% etc AND you get a boost in resistances while doing so, why sit in 1 spot and keep potting or swinging? Change stance and get 110 or 120sec and less taken dmg!

    The SW don't get that option, 1 tree is totally designed on LS skill, when they made it a random/crit/proc thing instead of a % return thing they nerfed that tree to dirt.

    The other tree is based on vampiric stuff and exploding curses, same thing, it's based off LS once again, you can't count on it proccing enough to let you live long enough to syphon off health.

    The only viable tree currently is the Pet driven tree, your pet keeps the agro off you to keep you alive while you DoT them up, once you hit the tree cap skill your pet becomes a huge tanker, so much it can steal agro from party. The problem (until this patch perhaps) is the pet tended to lag behind and get stuck on features, so when you needed him to tank for you he was MIA.

    The biggest advantage a HR has over a SW (even outside the trapper tree) is his roots and slows etc. far outstrip a SW roots, the SW roots un-root on second hit, that's why they are called templocks. The second afvantage a HR has over the SW is the HR's dodge ACTUALLY dodges, and he get 3 for a stamina charge. The SW gets 1 (2 if specs) for a charge and it don't actually mitigate dmg, nor dodge speed him up. Even despite it's name and description leading you to believe it would..shadow stepping indeed :)

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    rickcase276 said:

    I find my fury SW and my archery HR can do about the same amount of damage, except for one little thing. My fury SW can survive much better than my HR can, mostly due to lifesteal. When my HR only has 5.5% and the SW has 23.8% it makes a big difference. Now my other HR and SW are both not easy to play, but that is more because of lack of gear. Once geared they should play much better. They are a trapper and temptation. Now granted, none of these are my mains, so.....

    If you're talking about solo play then your HR must be the worst in the game. I had no issue with archery wiping out mobs in a blink of an eye while my SW only started throwing out attacks.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2015
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    arcofortep12 said:

    mattsacre said:

    The biggest trick with the melee tree is ironicly to keep changing stance out of melee, you massively improve your dps etc if you sitch back and forth between a range stance and melee, read the descriptions for jebeezs sake. You vastly increase DPS percentages when you do so.

    If I give you 200 dps per shot every 2 sec., and I give you 200 dps per swing every 2 sec. your dps is 100sec. BUT if you change stance and you get a boost of 5% or 10% etc AND you get a boost in resistances while doing so, why sit in 1 spot and keep potting or swinging? Change stance and get 110 or 120sec and less taken dmg!

    The SW don't get that option, 1 tree is totally designed on LS skill, when they made it a random/crit/proc thing instead of a % return thing they nerfed that tree to dirt.

    The other tree is based on vampiric stuff and exploding curses, same thing, it's based off LS once again, you can't count on it proccing enough to let you live long enough to syphon off health.

    The only viable tree currently is the Pet driven tree, your pet keeps the agro off you to keep you alive while you DoT them up, once you hit the tree cap skill your pet becomes a huge tanker, so much it can steal agro from party. The problem (until this patch perhaps) is the pet tended to lag behind and get stuck on features, so when you needed him to tank for you he was MIA.

    The biggest advantage a HR has over a SW (even outside the trapper tree) is his roots and slows etc. far outstrip a SW roots, the SW roots un-root on second hit, that's why they are called templocks. The second afvantage a HR has over the SW is the HR's dodge ACTUALLY dodges, and he get 3 for a stamina charge. The SW gets 1 (2 if specs) for a charge and it don't actually mitigate dmg, nor dodge speed him up. Even despite it's name and description leading you to believe it would..shadow stepping indeed :)

    Are you talking about Aspect of the Serpent? I call that a stupid unwelcome annoyance more than a Class Feature... thanks to bring that out too. But you must not read me... How can I get close before GWF and SW already cleared the path? How can I efficiently evade AoE without Sprint? Deflect don't work, Life Steal don't mitigate anything if you get one/two-shotted you are just dead no time to recover.

    Slow in party environment is less important than Daze (TR) or Prone (GWF). SW don't need to dodge, unlike CW he don't need to stay close to freeze mobs. It can let GF, GWF and CW take all the aggro.

    Obviously I agree about 1 tree completely broken for the SW, but I suppose Combat is in the same water... not only by watching at its Feats and mechanics but talking with friends Trappers too; they say it isn't viable at all in PVE and it isn't competitive in PVP anymore.
    You complaining because a controller/dps does less damage then a pure dps class? don't get me wrong, GWF probably does more damage then it should, but both gwf and sw should still likely do more damage then hr anyhow. I am fine with my CW dealing less damage then a properly played gwf, because my CW isn't a pure dps class the way a gwf is.
    Our Imaginary Friends are better than yours.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2015
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  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    arcofortep12 said:

    I'm not complaining at all about CW. I would like to see Thaumaturge and Renegade DPS both nerfed to fall behind TR and HR levels for a coherence standpoint. But need Oppressor to retain the party buff against a boss.

    Not sure about HR, but they are definitely behind TR levels. However, when I compared experienced HR players with experienced CW players - HRs usually got the upper hand.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2015
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  • blinxonblinxon Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    arcofortep12 said:


    x blinxon: You are wrong about Oppressor. About soloing not a single problem, you froze costantly foes. In party it buffs party members DPS (Frigid Winds, Controlled Momentum) and CC better than Thaum and Renegade.

    Erm...nop, sir. Your wrong. Renegade is the best for grp play. I think you have to read the skills again from renegade.


  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    You are wrong about Oppressor. About soloing not a single problem, you froze costantly foes. In party it buffs party members DPS (Frigid Winds, Controlled Momentum) and CC better than Thaum and Renegade. Only problem is the boss unaffected by 'Frozen', without party DPS boost it's just weak there.
    Killing dungeon mobs is easy. Killing bosses is not so easy.
    PvE players should spec for killing bosses.
    Renegade CW can solo very well with shield on tab because renegade can heal himself.
    The buffs/heals from Chaos Magic and Uncertain allegiance are superior to Frigid Winds and Controlled Momentum, especially because Uncertain allegiance and Chaos magic work on bosses.
    Renegade CW can also give combat advantage, although party may already have it.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User

    How can I get close before GWF and SW already cleared the path.
    1. Marauder's Rush

    How can I efficiently evade AoE without Sprint.
    1. Marauder's Escape
    2. Fox cunning
    3. Press shift once or twice.
  • fatgunsfatguns Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    Ehm, fox cunning and Trappers are realy good DPSers if they are played right in PVE
  • glubtalglubtal Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I have only played a HR all the way, and still do, started as a combatter, then briefly an archer, and at last I bite the bullet and went trapper. Since I have so much time only playing my trapper I think its fair to say I'm good at it. In PvE I usually have as much dps with my 3300 ilvl as a gwf/cw with 2500 ilvl. I dont mind the gwf's dealing out more dps, since..well. I lock, mark, trap and control enemies which hopefully the tank appreciate, but a cw can control as much as I,,At best a HR is like a CW's retar-ded cousin,,I guess thats why theres so few of us left...
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited September 2015
    This content has been removed.
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