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People complain about the Warlock, but have them actually played the Hunter Ranger?

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  • jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User

    Oh God this one is really a pain in the HAMSTER. Haven't you got a girlfriend to molest? Only Neverwinter for you?

    It's a pity forums haven't got ignore list. If it have someone tell me please! :D



    P.S.: I don't care about a. your opinions, b. your builds, c. your replies.

    Mine builds aren't up for you but for the players benefitting from them. You don't? It's your affairs, I don't care the least. :)

    Look, buddy. If you're not looking for criticism of your builds or your theories, you can always start a religion. Considering you haven't, and this is a forum where people exchange ideas and theories, and which is open to anyone capable of poking holes in said theories and ideas, you might be in the wrong place.

    It's the way knowledge works. Someone comes up with a theory, proves it - which, in your case, according to thefabricant hasn't happened - and then it reaches the open market of ideas. That's when other people who disagree with you start to attack your ideas. These attacks shouldn't be taken personal - to err is human - and should be welcomed. If you really want to help people with the game, and geniunely want to improve our knowledge of the mechanics, you should welcome it.

    Sure, players might benefit from what you know. It might help them. However, it might not be optimal. It might not be gospel. Someone else might've found something - and, considering we have a limited amount of feats - which outperforms your choices.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
    Aurelius the Awkward - Level 70 Pathfinder Ranger
    We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    If you say that mine Righteous is 'wrong' you are clearly trolling so I don't see the point to spend mine precious time with you. I'm not trolling, if I see a weak spot I just say it in a polite manner. I'm not prejudiced, even with an harasser like you.

    I'm not going to troll your threads. I just said one time I don't trust you about 2k ECC run, that's it. I'm not there continuosly harassing people in every thread.

    I didn't say righteous is wrong, I said the way you built righteous is wrong. Straight up, look at your feat tree, you missing one of the most important righteous feats. If you actually read what I wrote, you would know what. If you spent less time cluttering the forums with these misinformed threads, without doing any substantive testing and more time doing substantive testing, your content would be on the whole a lot more refined and there would be less criticism of it. Furthermore, once you realize you building your characters (both CW and DC) sub optimally and build them correctly, maybe you will actually be able to beat eCC legit properly (with a 2k group perhaps, which is possible if you actually READ my thread rather then dismissing it since if you can't do something no-one can) rather then being, I quote from your thread on it, "carried" by a stronger party. Try out zerg's CW build, or perhaps diogene's DC build, you should see a huge improvement in your over all performance. Both of those guides are properly thought out and well tested and I guarantee you will see a huge improvement in performance.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    If you say that mine Righteous is 'wrong' you are clearly trolling so I don't see the point to spend mine precious time with you. I'm not trolling, if I see a weak spot I just say it in a polite manner. I'm not prejudiced, even with an harasser like you.

    I'm not going to troll your threads. I just said one time I don't trust you about 2k ECC run, that's it. I'm not there continuosly harassing people in every thread.

    I didn't say righteous is wrong, I said the way you built righteous is wrong. Straight up, look at your feat tree, you missing one of the most important righteous feats. If you actually read what I wrote, you would know what. If you spent less time cluttering the forums with these misinformed threads, without doing any substantive testing and more time doing substantive testing, your content would be on the whole a lot more refined and there would be less criticism of it. Furthermore, once you realize you building your characters (both CW and DC) sub optimally and build them correctly, maybe you will actually be able to beat eCC legit properly (with a 2k group perhaps, which is possible if you actually READ my thread rather then dismissing it since if you can't do something no-one can) rather then being, I quote from your thread on it, "carried" by a stronger party. Try out zerg's CW build, or perhaps diogene's DC build, you should see a huge improvement in your over all performance. Both of those guides are properly thought out and well tested and I guarantee you will see a huge improvement in performance.
    And you say 'wrong' for 1 Feat?

    1st. With that Feat you have to slot BoTS, with BoTS you renounce to the healing of Astral Seal.

    2nd. With that Feat you have to renounce at Piercing Light (useful in PVP) or Lasting Wishes, and since I do PVP and don't overheal I preferred to be more strong in those aspects (the lettering 'hybrid PVE/PVP build' is there for a reason).

    3rd. If all builds are created identical there is no need to post them. There is no Holy Word here, there are choices to be made that affects everyones gameplay. Different features aren't there just for sport. But if you think your builds are Holy Words you are free to believe it.

    4th. Learn some modesty and ask why choices have been made before saying 'wrong'. 'I don't like it because...' would have been more polite.

    If you understood well, if you don't eat your slice of presumption and follow your path straight. I'm out of this polemic.

    P.S.: I read it, and didn't find it convincing, moreover the HR part. It's mine opinion. And I already said that with a >3k premade with 1 DC, 2 CWs, 1 OP and 1 TR (except the TR, me with 2.2k, those were 3.5k from a very famous BiS oriented guild, not exactly newbies...) it took so long. I don't want even to imagine how it would take with a 2k group even if everything accurate like a clock.
    Since you are playing righteous, why do you care about the healing of astral seal exactly? The point of righteous is to provide debuffs and then as a secondary, deal damage. Furthermore, brand of the sun has the additional benefit of generating a ton of divinity, allowing you to spam empowered abilities in a way that your at will choice never will.

    Secondly, on the account of build diversity, well, nice idea, just remember, if you struggling with content (which you admit you are) then maybe you should try out something tried and tested, or do some proper research (which you haven't) and likely end up with a build similar to the existing ones anyhow.

    Also, "slice of presumption," "polemic?" If you can't take constructive criticism and respond to it appropriately, then don't post. If you want real polemic, look on http://nwo-uncensored.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=33dc01d088a00508c8ebd13ba2a5d4c1
    That is where you see real verbal attacks. I am telling you, if you do proper testing you will get different results and your guides would be better if you substantiate them. Furthermore
    and famous deemed by who? if these groups of yours can't beat eCC with a 2k group then they evidently not that great. You seem to confuse "not a newbie" with knowing what you doing, there are plenty of people and quite frankly, I count you in this category, who obviously haven't the faintest clue how to play, who aren't necessarily new to the game.

    Also, I would recommend reading posts by @jaegernl he is a hr who has posted a lot of constructive feedback in this thread, both on how to play hr and on other matters.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    In mine opinion that isn't a viable route. Leaders without proper mitigation are useless, there are far better DPSers, to everyone its role. I'm already buffing through Condeming Gaze (Divine Glow/Astral Seal)/Weapons of Light/Hallowed Ground and debuffing (Divine Glow), plus I'm Healing and Mitigating. Allaround. Without Mitigation and healing the party is dead, I've experimented that too. You opinion can differ and I can accept it without problems, I would not go that route, period. I can DPS if the party is OP and don't need mitigation and healing, otherwise for a normal party I always go hybrid. And I often play with normal parties so I don't need to show everyone mine DPS.

    I responded appropriately. That phrase is to say 'if you want to troll and insult, like with all previous posts in multiple threads, go ahead alone'. If you want to be constructive I'm always open to discussion.

    P.S.: I don't see were I have criticized jaegernl posts, I appreciate everyone who bring information to the thread. It seems that for most people Combat isn't viable. No one said Trappers are useless, nor the OP or am I wrong?
    And I play usually with a very good Trapper, I already know Trapper is good (not more valuable than a TR, imho).

    There is a saying "jack of all trades and master of none" which is what applies to your builds, you can be really good at one thing, or you can be bad at all of them which is what I find when I read your builds. Ultimately, I sincerely hope no new players read your guides and go that route, because they will likely be wasting a respec token later on, on second thoughts, cryptic needs the revenue, maybe they should go your guide so they have to buy zen to change out later.

    I consider your builds to be false advertising, you claim they can do all these wonderful things but in the end are lacklustre and fall short. For example, your MoF Oppressor build, please do not ever recommend to anyone they ever go that route, its downright atrocious for pve.

    I would be happy if you would stick in all your guides.."Does not follow conventional wisdom and not recommended for a new player" as that then prevents any newbie wanting to learn from potentially making a mistake that they regret later on.
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  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    [quote]I'm not complaining at all about CW. I would like to see Thaumaturge and Renegade DPS both nerfed to fall behind TR and HR levels for a coherence standpoint. But need Oppressor to retain the party buff against a boss.[/quote]

    Trappers are better controllers than Thaum/renegade, maybe even oppressors too. And they often out damage my renegade.

    The best DPS I've ever grouped with is a TR, next is a few SWs, then every GWF. After that it's HRs and CWs.

    My renegade would never use shield, on tab, or otherwise.
  • jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    And you say 'wrong' for 1 Feat?

    1st. With that Feat you have to slot BoTS, with BoTS you renounce to the healing of Astral Seal.

    *BUZZER*

    WRONG.

    You don't need BoTS for it to work. Any DoT will do. My Righteous Annointed Champion applies Bear Your Sins just fine.

    Even Fire of the Gods will proc Bear Your Sins.

    You see, mate, this is what I mean with your theory and poking holes in it. You claim you need Brand of the Sun for it to work. No, you don't. The whole reason why this is an awesome feat is because Fire of the Gods - which procs on ANY CRIT - will trigger it. You have to crit a mob ONCE for it to take effect. Any half-decent Righteous DC will have decent amounts of crit and will apply it quickly enough. Hell, some of their skills don't even have a target cap and are spammable in Divine Mode.

    If it was just BoTS that would apply it, yes, it'd be a horrible feat because applying BoTS to every single mob is horridly ineffective. But, surprise surprise, it's not the only way to apply it.
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
    Aurelius the Awkward - Level 70 Pathfinder Ranger
    We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
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  • jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    Do you even math, bro?



    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
    Aurelius the Awkward - Level 70 Pathfinder Ranger
    We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    There is a saying "jack of all trades and master of none" which is what applies to your builds, you can be really good at one thing, or you can be bad at all of them which is what I find when I read your builds. Ultimately, I sincerely hope no new players read your guides and go that route, because they will likely be wasting a respec token later on, on second thoughts, cryptic needs the revenue, maybe they should go your guide so they have to buy zen to change out later.

    I would be happy if you would stick in all your guides.."Does not follow conventional wisdom and not recommended for a new player" as that then prevents any newbie wanting to learn from potentially making a mistake that they regret later on.

    Wrong again. 'Jack of all Trades' doesn't mean 'bad at all'. Retry. And yes, I'm a Jack of all Trades. Give more time to learn what it means.
    It's your opinion, I'm fine with it.
    I would like to see in yours 'It's Holy Word, eat it and be satisfied'. :D
    See? You still there. Not wasting more time, good luck and happy gaming.
    You seem to think that I believe that only my opinion is right and yet I can show you posts where I have admitted I am wrong, furthermore, I do disagree with zerg on some things about CW, but the difference is, the differences between the way he builds CW and the way I build CW is a few % in either direction and actually is merely a case of being personal preference. I have never said that the way I do things is 100% correct, what I am arguing here though is what you (case in point you here, not necessarily everyone, please take note) are doing is definitely wrong.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Guys, calm down, while a little bickering is nice to watch, it is a little derailing to the original question.

    Maybe you are playing and building from different perspectives. Afro runs PuGs with more or less geared/ skilled players.

    thefabricant and some of the other players who commented are ppl who know what they are doing and why they are doing it. While on a personal note, I would prefer their choices, I dont run PuG with my rightous DC, bc ppl complain about the heal and without a decent tank or dps/ CC I grab aggro from my heals combined with the dps and I die.

    Maybe his builds are best for his grouping, I dont know. With good gear and good players, you can run optimized builds for your class, maxing their effects in group play. For example (with the exeption af damage crazy mass pulls from SWs battleing for top DPS) I use HP set on my DC. I would not recomment this for a PuG group.

    Sometimes you have to optimize your build for your own or your groups needs. For some reason I have bad fps since the last mod got introduced, despite my efforts to find the problem. My friend sometimes comment on my chars 'porting' from one point to the other (do dodge), so I need a little more surviveability. A friend had problems keeping up with the dps of other CWs, so he went for MOF/ renegade, to boost the support aspect.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • vrubenvruben Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Op, I am not sure if you are inexperienced or just not geared inside the game but I can tell you that Hunter Rangers are not the push over class you are claining them to be. I fought two rangers today in domination named "Ripper and I think his name was Deadshot, and I can tell you, after being CCed by them for 6 minutes on my GF until dead, your class is anything but weak.

    You guys are CC kings and if you have high deflect on your character can actually be very tanky. The only class that I can see that is hurting inside this game currently are Warlocks.
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  • osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    @Fruben: As a GF you kill a BiS Hr in one rotation.
    Ofc if you have expirience and the right build.

    Examples where your own skill and expirience is far far lower than of your opponent are not valid for discussing class balance.

    If you think a HR is tanky and you play GF, you are very inexpirienced. Especially against someone like Deadshot, because he is not using Lonewolf feature.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    asterotg said:

    Guys, calm down, while a little bickering is nice to watch, it is a little derailing to the original question.

    Maybe you are playing and building from different perspectives. Afro runs PuGs with more or less geared/ skilled players.

    thefabricant and some of the other players who commented are ppl who know what they are doing and why they are doing it. While on a personal note, I would prefer their choices, I dont run PuG with my rightous DC, bc ppl complain about the heal and without a decent tank or dps/ CC I grab aggro from my heals combined with the dps and I die.

    Maybe his builds are best for his grouping, I dont know. With good gear and good players, you can run optimized builds for your class, maxing their effects in group play. For example (with the exeption af damage crazy mass pulls from SWs battleing for top DPS) I use HP set on my DC. I would not recomment this for a PuG group.

    Sometimes you have to optimize your build for your own or your groups needs. For some reason I have bad fps since the last mod got introduced, despite my efforts to find the problem. My friend sometimes comment on my chars 'porting' from one point to the other (do dodge), so I need a little more surviveability. A friend had problems keeping up with the dps of other CWs, so he went for MOF/ renegade, to boost the support aspect.

    'No glove fit everyones hand'. I concur. A wrong build would not let you complete end game content. In fact yesterday I ran an ECC with a proper Righteous DPS and it was a bloodbath, a very painful run. Moreover for me that was tanking (GF) and left alone (no sinergy at all). I don't like at all Righteous who does not mitigate and heals in a party setup while in mobs content, they often gets kicked for a reason (different is the story against bosses, for example in Valindra there is no point on putting on the ground an Astral Shield, I burn her out with Forgemaster... there a BYS can be helpful but I ran very mixed content and I'm more comfortable with other Feats for my style of play, everyone can switch one of those off and insert what they need, builds are there as landmarks to compare point of views. Then if you find synergy with a specific party go DPS but join a PUG and you will see people curse you. Mine is a very versatile one.

    Anyway the topic has derailled. It verted on the HR Combat tree, let's talk about the HR if we want to carry on with the discussion.
    A wrong build will let you complete end game content...as its easy enough for 4 other people to carry you, which as you have stated before, they have.
  • hypnoticbeasthypnoticbeast Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    sangrine said:


    How can I get close before GWF and SW already cleared the path.
    1. Marauder's Rush

    How can I efficiently evade AoE without Sprint.
    1. Marauder's Escape
    2. Fox cunning
    3. Press shift once or twice.


    Inefficient. Thanks for pointing it out. Not wasting more time with the class. With shift you dodge completely an AoE? At least it can bee good played ranged.

    x blinxon: Both buffs through Feats. Renegade Capstone is unreliable (it provide diverse buffs, sometimes you don't need the Heal for example, sometimes you need it provide something different) and Renegade is still less efficient in CC.

    x sangrine: Bosses matters the most, I agree on that. It should be dealt by developers if they want to fix that tree (just apply all buffs should be enough eventually). To me it's the only deal breaker.

    First off this is a SUPPORT class. HRs are the ninja of the woods. So trapper yes that makes sense. This is a class that REQUIRES YOU to be patient and look at what's in front of you and asses the best way to move. THEY are not rouges. TR are thieves HR are ninja, close but not the same. Now if you want a combo for a HR try this. Marauders rush on a target(s) use your best melee encounters, slash away for a second or two. THEN ghost out with Marauders retreat follow that up with your best bow encounters and keep shooting. This move combo works great because your target(s) will have a big purple "?" over there heads for half the fight. And NOT hitting YOU. When the bad guys do get a bead on you repeat step 1. And if you want a tree stick with trapper it covers your evasion and root skills and that's what you need to survive. It will take you a few try's and tweaking of your gear, but try the above and then see if don't like it. It's sounds like your whole complaint is the fact that you "can't get out off harms way" fast enough? Marauder's Escape, the Shift is short but has no delay between so you can hit shift and get "out of harms" fast and if your in the red but transparent when an attack go's off no worries you wont get hit. In short the HR is a guerrilla warfare class. IE hit and run tactics, not up in your face like a TW. You want to keep them on the move and confusing the target. Hope that helps anyone else who might be having issues.
    Post edited by hypnoticbeast on
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  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    CBA about reading all three pages but is not as bad as OP is saying. It's just inexperience and lack of knowledge about the tree IMO. Just know when to dodge and use Fox Shift. Damage is low idd due to cr@ppy Combat feats but survivability is unparalleled due to Lifesteal feats. I hardly ever drop below 50% HP.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • hypnoticbeasthypnoticbeast Member Posts: 108 Arc User

    Every class has, at least, one support tree: Instigator, Scoundrel, Renegade, Virtuous, Righteous, Tactician, etc. Often they deal big damage too.

    HRs are strikers and no, I don't believe they CC more than CWs. Most classes have good CC too.

    Trappers are good, have I to repeat infinitely? It's OT.

    Dude they are not a striker. Strike means "to hit" as in close. This is a HUNTER main is a BOW. HR use a BOW like a CW use's magic missile. You need to change your thinking on this. You want "GREAT BIG KILL THEM ALL DAMAGE". From a "SNIPER" if modern terms will help. The the first two trees lean to the storm warden Trapper leans to pathfinder. I have had a storm warden that I went in blades He sucked, then I went bow He did better. I went path finder and trapper. They never see me coming and most of the time are dead before they can react. Him I stuck with. Remember there is big big damage in the Hunter you just has look for it.
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  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User


    Dude they are not a striker. Strike means "to hit" as in close.

    bullets, missles and bombs strike targets.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    lirithiel said:

    CBA about reading all three pages but is not as bad as OP is saying. It's just inexperience and lack of knowledge about the tree IMO. Just know when to dodge and use Fox Shift. Damage is low idd due to cr@ppy Combat feats but survivability is unparalleled due to Lifesteal feats. I hardly ever drop below 50% HP.

    Since you are a Combat your knowledge is important. Can you tell us what a Combat bring to a party and what lack? How is DPS compared to CWs and TRs when you do a dungeon run? How to play it to make it viable in PVE and in PVP? Or isn't it viable in any case except for soloing?
    Legion made a thread on the HR forum about his Combat build and while he admits damage isn't high, he feels he can contribute fine in dungeon runs. What Combat lacks most is damage without a doubt. Crowd control is absent completely. They will never match TRs or CWs unless those players are really bad. In my limited experience running dungeons as Combat in Mod 6 and 7 damage is low. However, running solo content is super fun and easily doable.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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  • darkstarcrashdarkstarcrash Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    The feats in the Combat tree give you increased life steal, deflection and self-healing. Survivability is higher than the other trees (especially compared to Archery) -- so it is fair that the damage is lower.

    Combat is going to be the easiest tree for soloing, but it won't be the highest damage in dungeons when your survivability is already covered by the tank and healer in your group. So for dungeons, archery and trapper are the better choices -- and for most people, the added CC of trapper makes it the best choice for group play.

    I don't see a problem with different trees having different strengths.
  • meiramimeirami Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    how can you pursue your opponents? How can you actually evade attacks (AoE) when melee?

    Because you aren't (or at least shouldn't be) playing a tank, you move to the side or behind the target(s) where you get flailed at considerably less. Just like the other squishy melee class, TR, would do. You evade attacks by pressing Shift (and yes, sometimes more than once if that's what it takes). It's that simple. Occasionally, you can simply use the WASD keys or Space (most cone attacks). If you time your attack correctly, Fox Shift can move you out of the harm's way, too, like jaegernl said.

    As for cap closers, you can use Fox Shift, Slasher's Mark or even Marauder's Rush. If you really are falling badly behind rest of your teammates, maybe invest invest in more movement.
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