myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I have one question for the Diehard Greed Community... Why not use the system the Developers put in place for you i believe the option is called "Round Robbin". That would ensure your "EQUAL CHANCE FOR EVERYBODY" while not forcing the need this greed that drama.
Round robin takes turns handing loot. It is not a random chance for each piece of loot, but goes in order.
While random in a way it is not a truly random system.
So if I just got that residuum the drop before that purple epic drop at the boss im out of luck.
If they instituted a truly random 20% drop for all players on a team, they could leave need and greed exactly how it is and I am fairly sure 90% of the community would be using the 20% chance option. (Which is EXACTLY what greed runs accomplish.)
I don't think anyone cares about the "Greed Runs" people do, the problem is that this Greed disease is infecting the community to the point where people in the que and people who have not asked nor stated any loot rolls, that greed is conceived as "Standard Looting Rules".
I have no problems with people getting kicked for needing in greed groups, but just the nature of the Greed group mentality is negatively affecting non "Greed Run" groups and it happens a lot in the que, probably every time i run a dungeon que someone is kicked for not adhering to someones perceived "Standard Looting Rules" which no one ever states ahead of time, and if you don't realize that you need to use the que more often.
Round robin takes turns handing loot. It is not a random chance for each piece of loot, but goes in order.
While random in a way it is not a truly random system.
So if I just got that residuum the drop before that purple epic drop at the boss im out of luck.
Sounds like a genuine 20% chance to me, 1 out of the 5 gets it every time, same chance you just don't get to roll (no one says you have to pick up that residuum its you prerogative). I guess you just like being able to see what it is so you have the opportunity to kick people for what ever reason. Round Robin pretty much ensures no kicks because of loot because no one knows what it is, except the person who got it.
I have no problems with people getting kicked for needing in greed groups, but just the nature of the Greed group mentality is negatively affecting non "Greed Run" groups and it happens a lot in the que, probably every time i run a dungeon que someone is kicked for not adhering to someones perceived "Standard Looting Rules" which no one ever states ahead of time, and if you don't realize that you need to use the que more often.
If you think of the two modes of looting it is no surprise that the 'needers' get kicked.
You are in effect saying to a random group of people you don't know that you deserve the drop and they don't.
You can justify it as "well i actually need this item" all you want, but to the other 4 in your group who have no idea whether you need the item or not you are just saying "I am more important than the 4 of you."
I greed or pass on everything else. And that shouldn't matter anyway: If you need in something, it doesn't matter if I greed or pass because you'll get it anyway. If you don't need, you shouldn't care what I roll because you dont really need it. If I don't need an item (need = I want to use it) I don't care what everyone else rolls.
So you are placing the "needs" of a single player above all the other players? Don't be so selfish and narrow-minded. Every single party member came into this dungeon to get a chance at a loot. Everyone should have an equal chance.
If you did that stunt in a greed run, I do hope someone in their right mind kicks you for being self-centered. This is a game and there are other people in the game who also want stuff out of dungeons. There are 4 other people who put in the effort to clear that dungeon with you.
I am really disappointed at the attitude and lack of self-awareness by some people.
Sounds like a genuine 20% chance to me, 1 out of the 5 gets it every time, same chance you just don't get to roll (no one says you have to pick up that residuum its you prerogative). I guess you just like being able to see what it is so you have the opportunity to kick people for what ever reason. Round Robin pretty much ensures no kicks because of loot because no one knows what it is, except the person who got it.
Yeah , so it is your turn to get the epic item, and someone else picks up the residuum to get themselves the epic item as they are next in line. Just leads to a whole other way to 'ninja' the loot.
It is not 20% for each player on each drop is the gist of it.
If you think of the two modes of looting it is no surprise that the 'needers' get kicked.
You are in effect saying to a random group of people you don't know that you deserve the drop and they don't.
You can justify it as "well i actually need this item" all you want, but to the other 4 in your group who have no idea whether you need the item or not you are just saying "I am more important than the 4 of you."
You can't just make up rules and expect the whole community to follow them just because you think its the fairest, that is just not how things work. The game is designed with Need, Greed and Pass, if your not in a "Greed Run" then there is no justification for kicking because people did not following player created rules that were never stated.
Sounds like a genuine 20% chance to me, 1 out of the 5 gets it every time, same chance you just don't get to roll (no one says you have to pick up that residuum its you prerogative). I guess you just like being able to see what it is so you have the opportunity to kick people for what ever reason. Round Robin pretty much ensures no kicks because of loot because no one knows what it is, except the person who got it.
Except the only loot that truly matters is the last one. That's where the 20% chance matters. Please do not make counter-arguments for the sake of playing devil's advocate because you are a proponent of the "need" system. Don't play ignorant to the fact that most of the other blue drops in the dungeon aren't even worth 10% of the final boss drop.
You can't just make up rules and expect the whole community to follow them just because you think its the fairest, that is just not how things work. The game is designed with Need, Greed and Pass, if your not in a "Greed Run" then there is no justification for kicking because people did not following player created rules that were never stated.
Which is why you ask at the beginning of each run what type of run it is........
Why would you encourage the restriction of discussion ie the whole point of a forum when it's already highly controlled?
The same themes/explanations/rationales have been repeated too many times. I think everyone gets the pro/con of the need/greed dilemma. If you haven't figured out the reasons by now, after 38+ pages of discussion, there's a cognitive problem lurking under the surface . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
You can't just make up rules and expect the whole community to follow them just because you think its the fairest, that is just not how things work. The game is designed with Need, Greed and Pass, if your not in a "Greed Run" then there is no justification for kicking because people did not following player created rules that were never stated.
If you are not in a greed run, there is EVERY reason for you to get kicked for needing.
You are in a group with 4 randoms who are just as invested in the dungeon as you are, regardless of your perceived 'need' of an item, you are still placing your needs above the rest of this RANDOM team you are in.
If you think that randoms won't kick you for taking the loot at the end of a dungeon you are mistaken.
It is justifiable and right to boot the one guy in a random group that thinks they should get the good BoE drop at the end of the dungeon.
That is why it is infecting the random groups, because it is unfair for people to need on items and screw the rest of the group out of their chance at a drop.
Saying it is unfair for one guy to not be able to vote 'need' while saying that the 4 other guys in group who want an equal chance at loot are greedy is laughable.
Here is some word problems type math for you.
1 guy doesn' want to share chance of loot with group = GREED
5 guys who split chance at loot 5 ways = FAIRNESS
Yeah , so it is your turn to get the epic item, and someone else picks up the residuum to get themselves the epic item as they are next in line. Just leads to a whole other way to 'ninja' the loot.
It is not 20% for each player on each drop is the gist of it.
LOL we are getting really paranoid here aren't we... first you guys just assume everyone who needs is ninja, then if you did round robin you sure that someone will accurately predict how to ensure they get the epic drop, jaded much. I smoke alot of weed and i'm not that paranoid. You need to see every item and all the rolls to satisfy that paranoid brain of your because otherwise if you didn't get the drop you'll just assume someone cheated to get it eh... Have a little faith in people for the most part from what i've noticed, most people are not trying to abuse the system. Now if you project your intentions on to others, it might seem different from that perspective.
Which is why you ask at the beginning of each run what type of run it is........
Ok so now a new player created rule: Everyone needs to ask at the entrance of a dungeon weather its pre-made or que or risk being kicked for following what up until now have been standard looting rules through the whole lvling experience.
Have any other Player created rules everyone should use their psychic abilities to know that they should do? Because if not apparently it well within people rights to just start kicking. You people make me sick!
The same themes/explanations/rationales have been repeated too many times. I think everyone gets the pro/con of the need/greed dilemma. If you haven't figured out the reasons by now, after 38+ pages of discussion, there's a cognitive problem lurking under the surface . . .
It's not the moderators job to decide when a thread is over if the topic doesn't violate the rules. Even if they do it here anyway. Decide for yourself when you want to stop contributing to a topic. The thread will die naturally.
LOL we are getting really paranoid here aren't we... first you guys just assume everyone who needs is ninja, then if you did round robin you sure that someone will accurately predict how to ensure they get the epic drop, jaded much. I smoke alot of weed and i'm not that paranoid. You need to see every item and all the rolls to satisfy that paranoid brain of your because otherwise if you didn't get the drop you'll just assume someone cheated to get it eh... Have a little faith in people for the most part from what i've noticed, most people are not trying to abuse the system. Now if you project your intentions on to others, it might seem different from that perspective.
Not paranoid, experienced at playing with this community.
You can go ahead and have faith in random strangers on the internet, but experience has proven that not trusting them is smarter.
Yes I have been in round robin stupidity in a GG delve and people were trying to not loot items, and accusing people of grabbing loot so that someone else couldn't get the drop at the end.
And it is not hard to say count to 5 and watch your loot rolls.
With 5 people in a group, you can have a fairly good idea of exactly which drop the cycle is on.
This ABSOLUTELY leads to 'ninja' activity trying to move the loot cycle along in an advantageous way.
Your whole argument amounts to "we have a fair way to equally distribute loot(round robin) which gives people a 20% chance at the loot" (which it doesn't), while saying that 'greed' which gives EVERYONE an equal 20% chance at ALL drops is bad.
Rofl. Go smoke another one.
Ok so now a new player created rule: Everyone needs to ask at the entrance of a dungeon weather its pre-made or que or risk being kicked for following what up until now have been standard looting rules through the whole lvling experience.
Have any other Player created rules everyone should use their psychic abilities to know that they should do? Because if not apparently it well within people rights to just start kicking. You people make me sick!
Correct. It is a player created rule that has surpassed enough popularity (it is better than need runs for obvious reasons according to a lot of players) that it commands the attention of players of *gasp, wait for it* looking at your party chat. I know, I know, it does make you sick to ask players the unenviable task of reading their party chat once. I would like to apologize on behalf of half the server's population. I do not know where psychic abilities come in, so I apologize for that again.
In conclusion, we have to live in a world where we need to read party chat once. Brace yourselves people.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Yes I have been in round robin stupidity in a GG delve and people were trying to not loot items, and accusing people of grabbing loot so that someone else couldn't get the drop at the end.
That actually is stupid. By the time you can see an item in a Round Robin setup, the game has decided that item belongs to you, whether you wanted it or not, whether you pick it up or not. Drops you see are all for you.
Correct. It is a player created rule that has surpassed enough popularity (it is better than need runs for obvious reasons according to a lot of players) that it commands the attention of players of *gasp, wait for it* looking at your party chat. I know, I know, it does make you sick to ask players the unenviable task of reading their party chat once. I would like to apologize on behalf of half the server's population. I do not know where psychic abilities come in, so I apologize for that again.
In conclusion, we have to live in a world where we need to read party chat once. Brace yourselves people.
All your sarcasm aside. The problem is that you elitists think that all new players should...
1. Disregard all previous looting rules they used the whole time while leveling.
2. They should just psychically know to ask loot roll even tho they may not understand the need greed system.
3. They should read all text in the party and they should know what a "Greed Run" is even though they might not even speak the same language or just not understand what you mean.
4. If no one said anything they should again use their psychic intuition to ask the loot rules, even though they may not understand what loot rules are because they haven't encountered it till now.
Hell they might not even understand the difference between BoE and BoP. And what happens when they don't do all the things listed and need on an upgraded piece of gear they could use, thats right lets just blindly kick them, no one ever talks to the people and explain why or try to come to an understanding before they kick, they just kick without warning, and thus those players are most likely to repeat the experience, and this is what you call fair, i think its appalling. Just so you can further upgrade over geared chars and then complain that the content is too easy.
All your sarcasm aside. The problem is that you elitists think that all new players should...
1. Disregard all previous looting rules they used the whole time while leveling.
2. They should just psychically know to ask loot roll even tho they may not understand the need greed system.
3. They should read all text in the party and they should know what a "Greed Run" is even though they might not even speak the same language or just not understand what you mean.
4. If no one said anything they should again use their psychic intuition to ask the loot rules, even though they may not understand what loot rules are because they haven't encountered it till now.
And what happens when they don't do all the things listed and need on an upgraded piece of gear they could use, thats right lets just blindly kick them, no one ever talks to the people and explain why or try to come to an understanding before they kick, they just kick without warning, and thus those players are most likely to repeat the experience, and this is what you call fair, i think its appalling. Just so you can further upgrade over geared chars and then complain that the content is too easy.
Reading party chat is now elitism. I have no words.
Then you go on this tangent about power creep etc that has nothing to do with setting up the run the whole party agrees on. I do have words for that but I won't entertain it since it has nothing to do with the thread topic.
lol ya thats what i said... your ignorance has no bounds...
Well a couple of your points were pretty illogical and based on false assumptions so rather than engage in your borderline trollish/devil's advocate-comments, I didn't tackle them
Anyway, learning to read party chat solves the dilemma of not being familiar with Greed rules.
If you don't like the rules set up by majority of the party, the group disbands. Easy.
Reading party chat is now elitism. I have no words.
Then you go on this tangent about power creep etc that has nothing to do with setting up the run the whole party agrees on. I do have words for that but I won't entertain it since it has nothing to do with the thread topic.
Are you literate or what I'm talking about groups in the que... and it has everything to do with the topic, which is the greed mentality which spills over into the que system where a lot of people get kicked for not adhering to made up rules, that were never stated. Try doing what you think others should READ....
Well a couple of your points were pretty illogical and based on false assumptions so rather than engage in your borderline trollish/devil's advocate-comments, I didn't tackle them
Anyway, learning to read party chat solves the dilemma of not being familiar with Greed rules.
If you don't like the rules set up by majority of the party, the group disbands. Easy.
That is what is killing the que system and you are still assuming people speak english and understand what "Greed Run" means, i know its hard for you buy try thinking about it from a perspective other then yours...
Can't believe that this thread is still going, I kinda feel like it should have been locked a while ago, it's turned into a "My method of looting is better than yours, so that means your a ****" **nudges mods**
Are you literate or what I'm talking about groups in the que... and it has everything to do with the topic, which is the greed mentality which spills over into the que system where a lot of people get kicked for not adhering to made up rules, that were never stated. Try doing what you think others should READ....
Yes I am literate thank you for noticing. I think it should be explicitly stated that you are doing a greed run at the start unless that was the advertised run on the channel. Otherwise, learning to read party chat is not too much to ask of any player doing level 60 epic dungeons
Can't believe that this thread is still going, I kinda feel like it should have been locked a while ago, it's turned into a "My method of looting is better than yours, so that means your a ****" **nudges mods**
Really? I don't see that. I see me arguing that people have different ways of running loot system in parties and that the loot rules should be stated and agreed upon at the beginning to prevent disagreements and miscommunications.
Now if certain posters in the thread are muddying the conversation up, perhaps it would be better to weed them out rather than the whole topic don't you think?
Yes I am literate thank you for noticing. I think it should be explicitly stated that you are doing a greed run at the start unless that was the advertised run on the channel. Otherwise, learning to read party chat is not too much to ask of any player doing level 60 epic dungeons
Let me just clear the air i personally don't need but i have seen it in almost every run a player get kicked for needing and i feel sorry for the newer players because they probably have no idea why they got kicked in the first place, which is sad, and the fact that people like you think its perfectly acceptable is discouraging to say the least.
Let me just clear the air i personally don't need but i have seen it in almost every run a player get kicked for needing and i feel sorry for the newer players because they probably have no idea why they got kicked in the first place, which is sad, and the fact that people like you think its perfectly acceptable is discouraging to say the least.
What's discouraging to me is that players can't be expected to read party chat.
Comments
I can't believe this thread has not been locked by now.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Why would you encourage the restriction of discussion ie the whole point of a forum when it's already highly controlled?
Round robin takes turns handing loot. It is not a random chance for each piece of loot, but goes in order.
While random in a way it is not a truly random system.
So if I just got that residuum the drop before that purple epic drop at the boss im out of luck.
If they instituted a truly random 20% drop for all players on a team, they could leave need and greed exactly how it is and I am fairly sure 90% of the community would be using the 20% chance option. (Which is EXACTLY what greed runs accomplish.)
WTB Class Reroll please
Sounds like a genuine 20% chance to me, 1 out of the 5 gets it every time, same chance you just don't get to roll (no one says you have to pick up that residuum its you prerogative). I guess you just like being able to see what it is so you have the opportunity to kick people for what ever reason. Round Robin pretty much ensures no kicks because of loot because no one knows what it is, except the person who got it.
If you think of the two modes of looting it is no surprise that the 'needers' get kicked.
You are in effect saying to a random group of people you don't know that you deserve the drop and they don't.
You can justify it as "well i actually need this item" all you want, but to the other 4 in your group who have no idea whether you need the item or not you are just saying "I am more important than the 4 of you."
So you are placing the "needs" of a single player above all the other players? Don't be so selfish and narrow-minded. Every single party member came into this dungeon to get a chance at a loot. Everyone should have an equal chance.
If you did that stunt in a greed run, I do hope someone in their right mind kicks you for being self-centered. This is a game and there are other people in the game who also want stuff out of dungeons. There are 4 other people who put in the effort to clear that dungeon with you.
I am really disappointed at the attitude and lack of self-awareness by some people.
Yeah , so it is your turn to get the epic item, and someone else picks up the residuum to get themselves the epic item as they are next in line. Just leads to a whole other way to 'ninja' the loot.
It is not 20% for each player on each drop is the gist of it.
You can't just make up rules and expect the whole community to follow them just because you think its the fairest, that is just not how things work. The game is designed with Need, Greed and Pass, if your not in a "Greed Run" then there is no justification for kicking because people did not following player created rules that were never stated.
Except the only loot that truly matters is the last one. That's where the 20% chance matters. Please do not make counter-arguments for the sake of playing devil's advocate because you are a proponent of the "need" system. Don't play ignorant to the fact that most of the other blue drops in the dungeon aren't even worth 10% of the final boss drop.
Which is why you ask at the beginning of each run what type of run it is........
The same themes/explanations/rationales have been repeated too many times. I think everyone gets the pro/con of the need/greed dilemma. If you haven't figured out the reasons by now, after 38+ pages of discussion, there's a cognitive problem lurking under the surface . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
If you are not in a greed run, there is EVERY reason for you to get kicked for needing.
You are in a group with 4 randoms who are just as invested in the dungeon as you are, regardless of your perceived 'need' of an item, you are still placing your needs above the rest of this RANDOM team you are in.
If you think that randoms won't kick you for taking the loot at the end of a dungeon you are mistaken.
It is justifiable and right to boot the one guy in a random group that thinks they should get the good BoE drop at the end of the dungeon.
That is why it is infecting the random groups, because it is unfair for people to need on items and screw the rest of the group out of their chance at a drop.
Saying it is unfair for one guy to not be able to vote 'need' while saying that the 4 other guys in group who want an equal chance at loot are greedy is laughable.
Here is some word problems type math for you.
1 guy doesn' want to share chance of loot with group = GREED
5 guys who split chance at loot 5 ways = FAIRNESS
Ok so now a new player created rule: Everyone needs to ask at the entrance of a dungeon weather its pre-made or que or risk being kicked for following what up until now have been standard looting rules through the whole lvling experience.
Have any other Player created rules everyone should use their psychic abilities to know that they should do? Because if not apparently it well within people rights to just start kicking. You people make me sick!
It's not the moderators job to decide when a thread is over if the topic doesn't violate the rules. Even if they do it here anyway. Decide for yourself when you want to stop contributing to a topic. The thread will die naturally.
Not paranoid, experienced at playing with this community.
You can go ahead and have faith in random strangers on the internet, but experience has proven that not trusting them is smarter.
Yes I have been in round robin stupidity in a GG delve and people were trying to not loot items, and accusing people of grabbing loot so that someone else couldn't get the drop at the end.
And it is not hard to say count to 5 and watch your loot rolls.
With 5 people in a group, you can have a fairly good idea of exactly which drop the cycle is on.
This ABSOLUTELY leads to 'ninja' activity trying to move the loot cycle along in an advantageous way.
Your whole argument amounts to "we have a fair way to equally distribute loot(round robin) which gives people a 20% chance at the loot" (which it doesn't), while saying that 'greed' which gives EVERYONE an equal 20% chance at ALL drops is bad.
Rofl. Go smoke another one.
Correct. It is a player created rule that has surpassed enough popularity (it is better than need runs for obvious reasons according to a lot of players) that it commands the attention of players of *gasp, wait for it* looking at your party chat. I know, I know, it does make you sick to ask players the unenviable task of reading their party chat once. I would like to apologize on behalf of half the server's population. I do not know where psychic abilities come in, so I apologize for that again.
In conclusion, we have to live in a world where we need to read party chat once. Brace yourselves people.
That actually is stupid. By the time you can see an item in a Round Robin setup, the game has decided that item belongs to you, whether you wanted it or not, whether you pick it up or not. Drops you see are all for you.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
1. Disregard all previous looting rules they used the whole time while leveling.
2. They should just psychically know to ask loot roll even tho they may not understand the need greed system.
3. They should read all text in the party and they should know what a "Greed Run" is even though they might not even speak the same language or just not understand what you mean.
4. If no one said anything they should again use their psychic intuition to ask the loot rules, even though they may not understand what loot rules are because they haven't encountered it till now.
Hell they might not even understand the difference between BoE and BoP. And what happens when they don't do all the things listed and need on an upgraded piece of gear they could use, thats right lets just blindly kick them, no one ever talks to the people and explain why or try to come to an understanding before they kick, they just kick without warning, and thus those players are most likely to repeat the experience, and this is what you call fair, i think its appalling. Just so you can further upgrade over geared chars and then complain that the content is too easy.
Reading party chat is now elitism. I have no words.
Then you go on this tangent about power creep etc that has nothing to do with setting up the run the whole party agrees on. I do have words for that but I won't entertain it since it has nothing to do with the thread topic.
Well a couple of your points were pretty illogical and based on false assumptions so rather than engage in your borderline trollish/devil's advocate-comments, I didn't tackle them
Anyway, learning to read party chat solves the dilemma of not being familiar with Greed rules.
If you don't like the rules set up by majority of the party, the group disbands. Easy.
Are you literate or what I'm talking about groups in the que... and it has everything to do with the topic, which is the greed mentality which spills over into the que system where a lot of people get kicked for not adhering to made up rules, that were never stated. Try doing what you think others should READ....
That is what is killing the que system and you are still assuming people speak english and understand what "Greed Run" means, i know its hard for you buy try thinking about it from a perspective other then yours...
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Yes I am literate thank you for noticing. I think it should be explicitly stated that you are doing a greed run at the start unless that was the advertised run on the channel. Otherwise, learning to read party chat is not too much to ask of any player doing level 60 epic dungeons
Really? I don't see that. I see me arguing that people have different ways of running loot system in parties and that the loot rules should be stated and agreed upon at the beginning to prevent disagreements and miscommunications.
Now if certain posters in the thread are muddying the conversation up, perhaps it would be better to weed them out rather than the whole topic don't you think?
Let me just clear the air i personally don't need but i have seen it in almost every run a player get kicked for needing and i feel sorry for the newer players because they probably have no idea why they got kicked in the first place, which is sad, and the fact that people like you think its perfectly acceptable is discouraging to say the least.
What's discouraging to me is that players can't be expected to read party chat.