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[Suggestion] Remove Life Steal & Buff Regen
benja32gonsales
Member Posts: 236 Bounty Hunter
I find that life steal in PvE is too much and also I find that pure melee classes here are much more punished since you have to use potions from the begining while some ranged classes can almost forget them (I have a HR, a GF and a GWF and that is what I felt), so I thought that one way to normalize the HP gain is to buff regeneration, maybe a 10-25% of what it is now for every class except pure melee clases, these should have a buff on regeneration of 25-35%, and then remove life steal completely from the game.
A healer DC could be more requested, apart from the point of view that refill the HP bar on a second with a skill/encounter/power I've rarely seen on other games, and it's worse cause it's a base stat, a base stat that is allowing us to refill the HP in one second...
A healer DC could be more requested, apart from the point of view that refill the HP bar on a second with a skill/encounter/power I've rarely seen on other games, and it's worse cause it's a base stat, a base stat that is allowing us to refill the HP in one second...
Post edited by benja32gonsales on
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I like the fact that self healing can come from two different stats. And each have their place within PvP. PvE Lifesteal outstrips Regen by far.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Self-sustenance without mutual support should be made impossible no matter how high your defense/damage resistance is, left exclusively only to DCs.
As it is, not withstanding whether its PvE or PvP, some builds/specs are like Wolverine™ and healing factor, and thus usually makes the DC useless. It also allows warped and imbalanced parties for quick and easy dungeon runs, leaving out other classes such as GF or HR or TRs in any real roles. Ooh, I'm damaged, sprint and take a jog around the next node, or stealth and dance or little, or do the marauder's and then the Moonwalk for a bit and 50~60% of inflicted damage recovered... who needs DCs except as an insurance?
HRs boasting how they can group up mobs and wade through it with all the deflect heals, or GWFs simply going toe-to-toe against large number of mobs without flinching... yeah, this might make you feel all heroic and powerful and it is gratifying for sure, but in terms of gameplay stuff like that is abnormal, makes obsolete the role-based class distinction and party formation, and should be disallowed.
The very fact that every character, every class has some glaring weaknesses, is at the heart of the motive for making multi-class parties, hence the RPG aspect of the game. When you're so powerful as to be able to confront every situation yourself without fear of death -- then the game breaks.
That's why PvE is so danged easy and broken, and that's why nothing's ever gonna balance out the dominance of the simple GWFmeatshield + multi CW combos in PvE gameplay. The only thing that can deterr this trend is actual threat of death -- mobs more powerful, smart, and player self-heals/sustenance much weaker, so that no one or two class can simply gang up and defeat mobs with just CCs and DPS. '
For that reason, regen and lifesteal both need a nerf, even if it displeases many players.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I wasn't aware anyone was forcing you to make use of the stats. If you honestly feel like you are cheating by their use, don't use them.
No one is
EDIT:
I don't think I have to say this, but when you find something unfair because it's broken and OP, you just don't use it, you go to te forum and make suggestion to reduce/remove it's effect to improve the game, like I'm trying.
I agree, but the in this game the cooldowns for potions is too high, and at least pure melee classes like GFs and GWFs need a reliable way to recover their HP, without being too OP for PvE, it can be done by having maybe a second regen tick healing a 25% of the normal one or buffing regen.
lifesteal is the only reason why gwf is still playable after the overnerf of unstoppable
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Removing it seems a bit much though but halving it is a good idea imo. I am a DC, often i stand in the back buffing/debuffing (only thing we can do right now because healing isn't necessary) and see dps classes get fully healed by one good shot. Our self healing has been nerfed to the ground and dps can heal themselves better now then a healer can heal himself (or others for that matter) "That isn't normal".
Everyone here that wants to keep lifesteal as is, is just selfish and doesn't see the big picture of all the classes and group play. GF and DC haven't been needed in dungeons for a long time now and "that isn't normal". We DC's only are wanted for is buffing/debuffing just to give the dps classes bigger numbers and a hard on. This game runs on dps, gameplay shows it and achievements show it. PVE solo stuff is easy enough to do without any lifesteal and PVE group is so posed to be hard but isn't, just through 5x dps in a dugeon and there fine. I am going to say it one more time: "That isn't normal"
I am assuming your talking about pvp we are talking about pve. Keep your lifesteal in pvp i dont care but it should be lowered in pve. Because if you have trouble in pve then your just bad or doing content above what your supposed to do.
Isn't it amazing how pre-conceptions simply lock down a certain image and never makes it change?
I thought it was pretty obvious that the nerf to Unstoppable for destroyer build GWFs simply meant that the destroyers would now be considered a DPS with SOME tanking qualities, but generally much weaker than sentinels, and hence would need to be played like a DPS, not like a tank.
Instead, despite the nerf, for many people the GWF is still not a mobile swordsman type... and they still think of the Hulk-Smash type brain-dead, charge straight, never move, never flinch, never back-away type of a class.
Overnerf? If you want Unstoppable to be like it was, you could always go sentinel, no?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
go sentinel and deal less damage than DC ? sentinel is useless for pve, there is only 1 pve tree for gwf and its destroyer
in PvP Unstoppable is fine even for destro, but im not a fan of being oneshot in PvE when im forced to tank bosses. lifesteal is only way melee dps can survive, and if you are talking about braindead classes then its ranged dps not melee. GWF dont have invulnerability frames, so we need to facetank some attacks, or we can always run and hide behind some ranged dps so they are killed instead
ranged classes can ignore most of the attacks since most monsters attack in melee range and most red circles are melee range. we already have to waste a lot of time evading bigger attacks or being knocked back through ability that SHOULD make us immune to cc while ranged can just bash their face against keyboard
its the dungeon mechanics and lack of challenging content not lifesteal, having a tank in eLoL is nice, and in guild we usually run with cleric cause the buffs are nice and we dont really care if it takes 1 min more to roflstomp the pathetic content of that dungeon
I dare anyone of these people to get rid of as much lifesteal as possible and try running with a soft class like a melle hr in pvE (edit).
You are so soft that any AoE you get hit by in boss fights will take you 80% down. I guess thats when you would want the HR to start circling and waiting for that regen huh?
The only way that some classes are viable is through lifesteal.
All dps classes care about is dps and have no defense stats to speak of, why? because lifesteal will keep them alive.
Support classes feel useless at the moment and only reason you take a cleric with you is: more damage.
When you cant heal yourself instantly damage become dangerous again and you will watch out in red cirkels and will be happy when a gf takes some mobs of your back and that the cleric throws down astral shield and hallowed ground.
Tone down lifesteal, it will improve group diversity, challenge and teamwork.
I dont know the specifics of all the classes but what would happen if all the points from lifesteal went into defense?
I might take your down to 50% instead of 80%.
so how would it change life of my 17.8k gs GWF
Dragon HE
forget about them, i couldnt do them without a cleric in party, so on top of waiting 5~15 min on dragon i would have to spend time looking for cleric while ranged classes could still easily do them, and nobody would look for GWF since the encounter favors ranged classes(i could solo most of the dragons on a 10k gs SW if i had enough time to kill them without getting hit once) while on gwf i often take 15k+ dmg hits or lose a lot of time running out of red circles
IWD dailies - doable but would have to wait between encounters to regen
IWD 2/3 heroics - forget about them, cant do without healer, can do them easily now
IWD/ToD lairs - slow as f... would have to rest often
Dungeons - forget about dungeons since nobody would want GWF's if they can take CW's and keep mobs cc'd all the time, and GWF's would need a cleric constantly healing them
so your group diversity would consist of having 1 GF, 1 DC/Tempt SW and 3 ranged dps(pref CW), everything else would suck rear end
in the end i would be forced to quit because my character would become completely useless
Or use potions. I know, it costs gold, but it works. I'm doing the IWD dailies with dps spells only and tanking at close range dragon encounters with my 25k HPs and 35% DR cleric, so you can certainly do it better than me.
Tone down life steal not remove it that's my standpoint. i also have a gwf and dragons hit hard but also telegraph red area's so walk away for a few seconds.
And my vision for group diversity would be to have 1 support character that can be aggro/tank gf, mitigation/healer cleric or Tempt warlock. The other 4 whatever you like. Right now there is 0 support characters that is my problem and having the DPS/LS combo be not so ridiculous might help that.
For a 17.8k gs GWF i really think your exaggerating that a decrease in lifesteal effectiveness makes your class unplayable.
It's not just exaggeration it's either not knowing at all some basic game mechanics (potions) or being dishonnest. Lifesteal isn't required in any kind of content. Not even solo stuff. In the meantime when I play my CW I get 50k health from steal time, 60k from shards and up to 100k from oppressive force. I'm of course not talking about the massive continuous stream of HPs from conduit of ice or icy terrain. The way lifesteal works with anything and especially aoe spells makes us play in god mode plain and simple. The more stuff you have around you the easier self-healing for absurd amounts of health is easy.
and please do tell me how well 8.5k heal on 12sec cd from potions help when you get hit for around 4~5k from these ranged mobs(shamans or smth) that spawn in IWD totem HE ? even normal mobs hot for 1~2k, those potions are useful only when u cant steal life. i have played mmo where potion drinking was so needed it was worked in standard rotation, dont want to play another one
I forgot to mention I have a 13k GWF with litteraly 0 lifesteal. I don't play it often but yes IWD encounters aren't an issue. At all. When you get hit pop unstoppable and then use the encounter healing you... If that's not enough then a potion will help. Please don't force me to make a video to post it you don't want me to do that to you.
With righteousness our self heals are bad we cant even do half of what a dps class can do with lifesteal and to do that we need our healing encounters so we don't do damage at that point while the dps class does damage AND has more healing. <-- This was part of my point of my first post here. To compensate for that i have a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of defensive stats. Meanwhile dps classes (mostly gwf funny enough) focus on power, power, power, power and lifesteal. Its out of control.
Im still on the opinion to make Lifesteal less effective not remove it btw.
Melee TR, softest class in the game and the hardest to play effectively. I am also partially color blind. I got my LS down to just over 500. The game is still way too easy. I can drop gear to increase the challenge (still would be easy) but it is hard enough to get a group now and I would certainly have worse (if any) luck getting a group with all my gear save my weapons gone.
LS does need a serious nerf, though, it heals far too much currently.