The only problem with making a raid for 17-20k GS people is that it would need to drop even better equipment than what they currently have, and then the distance between them and other players would be even greater, and I don't know if that's what the devs want.
The only problem with making a raid for 17-20k GS people is that it would need to drop even better equipment than what they currently have, and then the distance between them and other players would be even greater, and I don't know if that's what the devs want.
I don't know how you see that as a problem seeing how they "balance" CW or GF or how they add those blue dragons enchantments, however, if they added hardcore dungeons i would be happy even if they put them the MC's weapon with 20+ stats on them (that would be 0.1% diference with the dimishing returns) or some title to show that you made that incredibly hard dungeon.
If you ask me, enchants should never go further than rank 7, artifacts shouldn't go over purple quality and weapon/armor enchants should be capped at lesser (without the "lesser" name of course just called "vorpal enchantment" without rank)
That would probably make the game much more balanced and content would be still challenging for most people.
But if the devs made that now, after the amount of money people have spent in overgearing, hell would break loose XD (not that I would care but still)
So you want to play the "what's to blame: the overgeared player or the lack of content?" game. Alright. I'll play.
I'm not saying Cryptic has no fault in all this, but these BiS people knew very well that if they can sleep through the hardest dungeon with 15k, there's no reason to go over it. The fact they do so anyway, is not something you can blame Cryptic for. However, you can blame them for allowing people to get that high. If they didn't want anyone over 15k, there's also no need to have enchantments over R7. In theory.
In Cryptic's defense, they underestimated the dangers bots bring in a game and let them go unchecked for over a year. Biggest mistake they made so far.
While some players used legitimate means to upgrade their gear, the refining points have to come from somewhere and at first those weren't available in the CS. And the drop rate isn't nearly sufficient to get BiS in half a year playing. That was never the game's intend as can clearly be concluded by the lack of content for people above 15k GS. Ok, maybe the new skirmish and dungeon raise the bar a little, but I haven't tried those, so I can't comment on that.
So, who's to blame here? I'd say the blame is on both sides:
- The BiS people knew very well they were overgearing in a game that lacks content for such power, but didn't care and went through with it anyway.
- Cryptic did not take enough measures to make sure people's power was kept in check and fight the botted supply of shards and the excess amount of botted refining points.
Either way, if the BiS people think Cryptic is going to make content for these people and just skip the whole 15-20k content they have planned for the next few years, they are in for a huge disappointment. It's not gonna happen. The damage is done, there's no reversing it without a complete wipe of the server. You have 2 choices: be bored or power down. I estimate it'll be another year, possibly 2, before content for your power level will be available.
All Cryptic can do is fight the excess of refining points/AD available (and not being stupid and put them in the CS like they do now >.>) and try to keep the game on track for majority of the players who do have the normal ratings for the current state of the game.
How can you even say that its the players fault for getting overgeard for content? I mean seriously. The gear is there for the players to acquire, and if they get it its not their fault cryptic has no challenges for that gear.
You dont even have to have rank 10s to be overgeared for content anymore. Since module 1 we have had 5 different sets of BOONS. That it self is enough for overgearing to any content. + gear + artifacts + enchants. If they are available people will gear up their characters. They wont exactly wait for content to get released where that gear is needed. I mean your logic is so silly.
You say take off your gear so that the content gets harder. I mean whats the point of even running that content then if the gear you get from it will make everything too easy to run? According to your logic we should all run arround naked because the boons and artifacts are more then enough to keep everything easy.
Seriously man. Just reading your posts makes me want to punch a whale. Just the grind infested boon farming has brought our gearscore too high for any content available. Forget about the gear, that gives you really nothing. Its all about the artifacts, enchants and boons. Those are the ones making the biggest difference in the game. And that is not the players fault ! Of course players are going to max out their characters. Are you suggesting we wait for Cryptic to release harder content to gear up and boon up our characters?
Also, our characters grow stronger by every mod. only by boons. nothing else. and much stronger that is. while the content has the same difficulty.
Isent a part of the game moving forward? Are you still on your sharandar boons then i guess?
How long do you suggest we hold off the boon farming? The content hasent changed, at all ! The dungeons still has same difficulty while our characters are much stronger then when those dungeons were released
You dont see any problems with this?
So you want to play the "what's to blame: the overgeared player or the lack of content?" game. Alright. I'll play.
I'm not saying Cryptic has no fault in all this, but these BiS people knew very well that if they can sleep through the hardest dungeon with 15k, there's no reason to go over it. The fact they do so anyway, is not something you can blame Cryptic for. However, you can blame them for allowing people to get that high. If they didn't want anyone over 15k, there's also no need to have enchantments over R7. In theory.
In Cryptic's defense, they underestimated the dangers bots bring in a game and let them go unchecked for over a year. Biggest mistake they made so far.
While some players used legitimate means to upgrade their gear, the refining points have to come from somewhere and at first those weren't available in the CS. And the drop rate isn't nearly sufficient to get BiS in half a year playing. That was never the game's intend as can clearly be concluded by the lack of content for people above 15k GS. Ok, maybe the new epic skirmish and dungeon raise the bar a little, but I haven't tried those, so I won't count them for the moment.
So, who's to blame here? I'd say the blame is on both sides:
- The BiS people knew very well they were overgearing in a game that lacks content for such power, but didn't care and went through with it anyway. So they have absolutely no right to complain about content in my opinion.
- Cryptic did not take enough measures to make sure people's power was kept in check and fight the botted supply of shards and the excess amount of botted refining points. They let people gain BiS very easily, and now they have to pay for it with comments from players being bored, justified or not.
Either way, if the BiS people think Cryptic is going to make content for these people and just skip the whole 15-20k content they have planned for the next few years, they are in for a huge disappointment. It's not gonna happen. The damage is done, there's no reversing it without a complete wipe of the server. You have 2 choices: be bored or power down. I estimate it'll be another year, possibly 2, before content for your power level will be available.
All Cryptic can do is fight the excess of refining points/AD available (and not being stupid and put them in the CS like they do now >.>) and try to keep the game on track for majority of the players who do have the normal ratings for the current state of the game.
Note that I'm not picking sides here. I'm merely applying logic to the problem. If you want to be BiS, by all means, go for it. I don't care. But don't come crying to me when you find yourself bored.
People will never say: "Oh, I'm destroying every dungeon with my guild, let's stop geting gear and wait 1 or 2 years until they add hard stuff" and other guy: "Yeah, there are bots right now and that's why everything is cheap on the AH, don't buy a thing until they are expensive!!!!!", I can't blame those ppl cause I wouldn't do that too, all I can say is:
1- Cryptic should know what's the biggest GS you can get on each phase of the game, for example if on beta it was 12.456 gs they should have a dungeon for 11k, if on mod 3 it was 19.343 then at that point a 18K GS dungeon had to be able, etc... (the purporse is not to have a dungeon only doable for the 0.1% of the population, but its to have a feel that u wont overgear PvE soon and even if u are BiS to don't fall asleep on the runs)
2- Remove the easy game mechanics like red areas to know where the boss will hit or Life Steal, such things make the game even more easier...
Then even if you are BiS you could have some sort of challenge, im not saying it should destroy BiS players, just give them something to do and don't fall asleep.
other thing that i pointed out is that the mechanic of the game make things easier too, the boss fight are made to dont need a tank and not 1 hit even the squishest player, dodgeable and pretty slow, also the trash mobs are nothing u should be aware of, etc...
The only problem with making a raid for 17-20k GS people is that it would need to drop even better equipment than what they currently have, and then the distance between them and other players would be even greater, and I don't know if that's what the devs want.
You're wrong.
If the devs would truly care for the casuals/F2P, they would have never introduced Artifact Gear which is available to even less people than Rank 10s and Perfects ever were.
Now there not only a gap between BiS and casual, there's a pretty big gap at the top too, with that legendary belt offering +4 in some stat you desire. The gap will grow soon even larger, as the artifact weapon will be the nail in the coffin for most people. Refining both wep and belt is probably a 50 million AD affair. Many of us are not poor, yet this obscene amount of AD is beyond our capabilities.
So I'd devs are introducing new powerful gear like candy.
If the devs would truly care for the casuals/F2P, they would have never introduced Artifact Gear which is available to even less people than Rank 10s and Perfects ever were.
Now there not only a gap between BiS and casual, there's a pretty big gap at the top too, with that legendary belt offering +4 in some stat you desire. The gap will grow soon even larger, as the artifact weapon will be the nail in the coffin for most people. Refining both wep and belt is probably a 50 million AD affair. Many of us are not poor, yet this obscene amount of AD is beyond our capabilities.
So I'd devs are introducing new powerful gear like candy.
Yep. If DEVs dont introduce gear with MUCH Greater stats, this game is going to hell faster then it is already.
Boons, artifacts, enchants and anything with refining should only be a small addition to the stats the gear provides you. REAL STATS should come from gear.
If you ask me, enchants should never go further than rank 7, artifacts shouldn't go over purple quality and weapon/armor enchants should be capped at lesser (without the "lesser" name of course just called "vorpal enchantment" without rank)
That would probably make the game much more balanced and content would be still challenging for most people.
But if the devs made that now, after the amount of money people have spent in overgearing, hell would break loose XD (not that I would care but still)
That's the thing. All content is easy in R7s and epic arti already. What PVE needs is a dungeon that is brutally hard. That you feel like a hero for beating. That casuals will not be able to survive. This does not hurt the player base. Look a couple months into the game you can beat all content. There are no mountains to climb. You make new toons to beat the same content differently. Sure it gives the high end players something to do but what else? You hit 60, you grind up a T1 and use it to get a T2. At that point you are ready for CN/ VT/ MC. And then off in the distance is that holy beast of a dungeon that people brag about beating. And you know you've got as many months in getting ready to try to fight it as you have already played. Enough months for the devs to come up with an even more impossible challenge.
These dungeons already exist. They are called CN/VT/EDV.
CN/EDV was constantly cleared by people with 10-12k GS TOPS.
VT was cleared by people 12-13k because then we only have 1 set of boons still.
Those dungeons are still made for 10-13k people. As soon as you get all your gear and hit 13k, the only thing for you left to do, is jump arround in PE
The problem seems to be you have an unreasonable sense of entitlement. Not every player is entitled to do all content.
Why should the devs spend hours upon hours developing a dungeon that maybe 70% of the population won't ever be able to complete? Cryptic caters to the middle because that's where the money and the people are.
CN/EDV was constantly cleared by people with 10-12k GS TOPS.
VT was cleared by people 12-13k because then we only have 1 set of boons still.
Those dungeons are still made for 10-13k people. As soon as you get all your gear and hit 13k, the only thing for you left to do, is jump arround in PE
I am talking about casual players, not the hardcore gamers who race to the highest gear score right away.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of casual players right now, even if their gear score is 15k, won't be able to complete those three dungeons.
And I'll just be honest. I'm a semi-casual player, and this is my first MMO that I have ever played. My CW is 15k and I cannot reliably finish those three dungeons. If you say I'm a "bad player" because of it, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet that the more typical character is closer to my level than to yours.
The title should of been, when will PVE be refocused.
PVE is currently and has been for the past 4 mods campaign/refine based. We dont have raids (i like raids), we have campaigns. We dont have raid gear, we have boons. We dont upgrade our gear, we refine 20 different things. We dont raid for 2-3 monthes, we run through our campaign for 1-2 monthes than we refine stuff forever.
The campaign/refine model benefits their economic model more than raiding would only reason I highly doubt theyll change that progression. We ll probably see more endgame stuff. But not as much as I think you guys would like. Its because the model that was set in place.
Oh I know it's possible to finish them all. I've finished them all. But I've basically been carried through when finishing. For VT, I've finished it maybe 3 times out of 10 attempts. Only finished EDV once. CN, maybe a half-dozen times out of 20 attempts. It's not reliable. So, that is my challenge. And I think that is the challenge that a lot of the casual and semi-casual players face. I think the hardcore MMO crowd needs to realize that this game is purposefully targeted towards the middle, not to the hardcore gamer. It is a smart financial move on their part because if they draw more people in, they can make more money, rather than exclude people by having them give up because the content is just too hard for them.
I mean any of them can be cleared with coordination and low gear. Or just strolled through with high gear. I mean something that requires good gear, coordination, and diversity or it is a wipe. Maybe that is a high standard but I think most people play games to complete goals. If the goals are all easy to attaing the game is not engaging. The first teams to beat CN put videos up on twitch and crowed about it. Something worthy of that sense of accomplishment.
Frankly speaking, when 99% PvE quests were designed for soloing at the beginning, it went a wrong direction. As we can see, quests are repetitive and challenge-less.
Most of PvE quests in a D&D game are supposed to be a group of heroes work together and defeat evils. And during quests, players are also supposed to learn good stories, see D&D elements, use basic/simple D&D mechanism, and experience D&D feel, otherwise it is no different from other pure action games. When I joined, I was expecting the said experience. But...
single class in game of 7 classes takes 70% spots in each and every dungeon group in a mostly pve game and that doesnt mean anything?
**** good that u showed up to explain that
but i dont think u did loool
sr mxtime next one is yours
i know tr is in a bad position for pve, but that's not my fault, i would be happy if every class had a role to fullfill and every1 were requested but i don't see how is that related to the fact that pve is easy for every class, u can pick 4 tr and 1 dc and it will be slower, but still... u wont get any challenge.
Comments
I don't know how you see that as a problem seeing how they "balance" CW or GF or how they add those blue dragons enchantments, however, if they added hardcore dungeons i would be happy even if they put them the MC's weapon with 20+ stats on them (that would be 0.1% diference with the dimishing returns) or some title to show that you made that incredibly hard dungeon.
That would probably make the game much more balanced and content would be still challenging for most people.
But if the devs made that now, after the amount of money people have spent in overgearing, hell would break loose XD (not that I would care but still)
How can you even say that its the players fault for getting overgeard for content? I mean seriously. The gear is there for the players to acquire, and if they get it its not their fault cryptic has no challenges for that gear.
You dont even have to have rank 10s to be overgeared for content anymore. Since module 1 we have had 5 different sets of BOONS. That it self is enough for overgearing to any content. + gear + artifacts + enchants. If they are available people will gear up their characters. They wont exactly wait for content to get released where that gear is needed. I mean your logic is so silly.
You say take off your gear so that the content gets harder. I mean whats the point of even running that content then if the gear you get from it will make everything too easy to run? According to your logic we should all run arround naked because the boons and artifacts are more then enough to keep everything easy.
Seriously man. Just reading your posts makes me want to punch a whale. Just the grind infested boon farming has brought our gearscore too high for any content available. Forget about the gear, that gives you really nothing. Its all about the artifacts, enchants and boons. Those are the ones making the biggest difference in the game. And that is not the players fault ! Of course players are going to max out their characters. Are you suggesting we wait for Cryptic to release harder content to gear up and boon up our characters?
Isent a part of the game moving forward? Are you still on your sharandar boons then i guess?
How long do you suggest we hold off the boon farming?
The content hasent changed, at all ! The dungeons still has same difficulty while our characters are much stronger then when those dungeons were released
You dont see any problems with this?
People will never say: "Oh, I'm destroying every dungeon with my guild, let's stop geting gear and wait 1 or 2 years until they add hard stuff" and other guy: "Yeah, there are bots right now and that's why everything is cheap on the AH, don't buy a thing until they are expensive!!!!!", I can't blame those ppl cause I wouldn't do that too, all I can say is:
1- Cryptic should know what's the biggest GS you can get on each phase of the game, for example if on beta it was 12.456 gs they should have a dungeon for 11k, if on mod 3 it was 19.343 then at that point a 18K GS dungeon had to be able, etc... (the purporse is not to have a dungeon only doable for the 0.1% of the population, but its to have a feel that u wont overgear PvE soon and even if u are BiS to don't fall asleep on the runs)
2- Remove the easy game mechanics like red areas to know where the boss will hit or Life Steal, such things make the game even more easier...
Then even if you are BiS you could have some sort of challenge, im not saying it should destroy BiS players, just give them something to do and don't fall asleep.
other thing that i pointed out is that the mechanic of the game make things easier too, the boss fight are made to dont need a tank and not 1 hit even the squishest player, dodgeable and pretty slow, also the trash mobs are nothing u should be aware of, etc...
You're wrong.
If the devs would truly care for the casuals/F2P, they would have never introduced Artifact Gear which is available to even less people than Rank 10s and Perfects ever were.
Now there not only a gap between BiS and casual, there's a pretty big gap at the top too, with that legendary belt offering +4 in some stat you desire. The gap will grow soon even larger, as the artifact weapon will be the nail in the coffin for most people. Refining both wep and belt is probably a 50 million AD affair. Many of us are not poor, yet this obscene amount of AD is beyond our capabilities.
So I'd devs are introducing new powerful gear like candy.
Yep. If DEVs dont introduce gear with MUCH Greater stats, this game is going to hell faster then it is already.
Boons, artifacts, enchants and anything with refining should only be a small addition to the stats the gear provides you. REAL STATS should come from gear.
That's the thing. All content is easy in R7s and epic arti already. What PVE needs is a dungeon that is brutally hard. That you feel like a hero for beating. That casuals will not be able to survive. This does not hurt the player base. Look a couple months into the game you can beat all content. There are no mountains to climb. You make new toons to beat the same content differently. Sure it gives the high end players something to do but what else? You hit 60, you grind up a T1 and use it to get a T2. At that point you are ready for CN/ VT/ MC. And then off in the distance is that holy beast of a dungeon that people brag about beating. And you know you've got as many months in getting ready to try to fight it as you have already played. Enough months for the devs to come up with an even more impossible challenge.
well if its to easy play a tr and look for a group for cn,vt,mc
in lfg channel.
These dungeons already exist. They are called CN/VT/EDV.
the fact that is hard to find a group as a tr because every1 want to finish on 20 min instead of 24 doesn't mean anything.
I would say that EDV and VT are doable for 14k pug and CN maybe need 15k, we are talking about challenge for 18k ppl.
CN/EDV was constantly cleared by people with 10-12k GS TOPS.
VT was cleared by people 12-13k because then we only have 1 set of boons still.
Those dungeons are still made for 10-13k people. As soon as you get all your gear and hit 13k, the only thing for you left to do, is jump arround in PE
Why should the devs spend hours upon hours developing a dungeon that maybe 70% of the population won't ever be able to complete? Cryptic caters to the middle because that's where the money and the people are.
I am talking about casual players, not the hardcore gamers who race to the highest gear score right away.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of casual players right now, even if their gear score is 15k, won't be able to complete those three dungeons.
And I'll just be honest. I'm a semi-casual player, and this is my first MMO that I have ever played. My CW is 15k and I cannot reliably finish those three dungeons. If you say I'm a "bad player" because of it, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet that the more typical character is closer to my level than to yours.
PVE is currently and has been for the past 4 mods campaign/refine based. We dont have raids (i like raids), we have campaigns. We dont have raid gear, we have boons. We dont upgrade our gear, we refine 20 different things. We dont raid for 2-3 monthes, we run through our campaign for 1-2 monthes than we refine stuff forever.
The campaign/refine model benefits their economic model more than raiding would only reason I highly doubt theyll change that progression. We ll probably see more endgame stuff. But not as much as I think you guys would like. Its because the model that was set in place.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
That's the attitude.
Don't forget to put rewards to measure up to the challenge as well tho'.
Most of PvE quests in a D&D game are supposed to be a group of heroes work together and defeat evils. And during quests, players are also supposed to learn good stories, see D&D elements, use basic/simple D&D mechanism, and experience D&D feel, otherwise it is no different from other pure action games. When I joined, I was expecting the said experience. But...
i know tr is in a bad position for pve, but that's not my fault, i would be happy if every class had a role to fullfill and every1 were requested but i don't see how is that related to the fact that pve is easy for every class, u can pick 4 tr and 1 dc and it will be slower, but still... u wont get any challenge.