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When will be PvE fixed?
benja32gonsales
Member Posts: 236 Bounty Hunter
We can summarize NWN's PvE content like this:
1- If it isn't a dungeon, then is something easily soloable.
2- Any composition can do any dungeon, easily.
3- Enemies extremelly standardized, same drops, same DR, same mechanics.
4- Easy bosses that doesn't need to be Tanked.
5- Leveling in this game is: "go to 'x' map when you are 'y' lvl and do 'z' quests, which are basically: go to 'w' place and press 'f'".
6- Life Steal for the win, now you can discard Clerics, you won't need them to survive a hard dungeon like in any other game, you just need them to make easy ones faster by debuffs/buffs.
I'm missing the hard PvE content, the guides to lvl fast depending on you class, the bosses that was hard to Tank and gave you good epic items and different stuff, the monsters that had different mechanics (some with a high resistance to 'x' type of attack and that gave you different items), the need to lvl and gear up for months just to be able to start to reach the high end PvE content, and the need of a good Tank and Healer to do them, those things that you see in any good MMORPG were replaced with the above and I DON'T LIKE IT...
1- If it isn't a dungeon, then is something easily soloable.
2- Any composition can do any dungeon, easily.
3- Enemies extremelly standardized, same drops, same DR, same mechanics.
4- Easy bosses that doesn't need to be Tanked.
5- Leveling in this game is: "go to 'x' map when you are 'y' lvl and do 'z' quests, which are basically: go to 'w' place and press 'f'".
6- Life Steal for the win, now you can discard Clerics, you won't need them to survive a hard dungeon like in any other game, you just need them to make easy ones faster by debuffs/buffs.
I'm missing the hard PvE content, the guides to lvl fast depending on you class, the bosses that was hard to Tank and gave you good epic items and different stuff, the monsters that had different mechanics (some with a high resistance to 'x' type of attack and that gave you different items), the need to lvl and gear up for months just to be able to start to reach the high end PvE content, and the need of a good Tank and Healer to do them, those things that you see in any good MMORPG were replaced with the above and I DON'T LIKE IT...
Post edited by benja32gonsales on
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However the "top end" isn't a high proportion of the playerbase anyway.
Go find a group that is gearing up and do a T2 dungeon with them. But here's the key: don't rush ahead, don't try to carry the group, but instead proceed at the same pace as the rest of the group. You'll find, more than likely, that the group doesn't find it faceroll easy, the group really does need heals, and it's not as easy as you are making it out to be.
C'mon, in any game you can go with new ppl and do easy dungeons that are hard for them, but in NWN you won't find any challenge above 13-14K (which is achievable in 2 months), but there are other games where you can be lvling to be rebirth and max lvl for 2x that time, and not even with BiS gear and still find dungeons that are somewhat challenging.
I'm speaking about good MMORPGS like Rgnarok, where i spent like 3 months playing and i wasn't even max lvl (not even rebirth), and it had challenging dungeons in which Tanks, Healers and a good strategy were needed to not die, that was fun, not this content where you press q, e and r and your biggest challenge is to not fall sleep like othe guy said in another topic that was closed.
It is easy.
All you need is good spec (free), boons (free), a t1/GG set and rank 5s (almost free), and you can deal with any dungeon if you are a half decent player. Add a lesser soulforge and lesser vorpal or plaguefire and you are fully set. Blue artifacts are a big bonus, and easy to get as well.
The game needs proper, meaningful PvE content for the very top. Content that you wipe for weeks at while learning to deal with the encounters. Content with epic storyline, epic bosses, epic lore.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
That ^, and if they added epic drops from them it would be good and far better than the actual: "go to 10000 easy HE to maybe get the stuff you want".
Then why are we progressing and getting better gear?, just fo PvP?, I LIKE PVE...
Run what? Same dungeons?
I ran CN 500+ time, if not more. Hundreds of T2s. 100+ VT/MC as well.
The rewards are appalling and not worth wasting my time compared to that other MMO I cannot name where I felt that farming raids was the most productive activity in the game.
So why would I gimp myself of the gear I worked so hard an entire year for? Just to run same dungeons?
Not worth it.
There needs to be proper top end PvE content for the hardcore players, those that are skilled and geared enough to take on the challenges. With rewards to match the difficulty.
- EPIC STORYLINE
- EPIC LORE
- EPIC BOSS BATTLES (where you fail a lot before beating it)
- EPIC REWARDS
I like to have hard content for guys who have good gear and are communicating with mic, where you need strategy and roles to fullfill, if i liked solo then i would go play Neverwinter Nights or something that doesn't need internet.
MP, sounds like maybe you are ready for a new game. They are not going to do what you want them to. I'd like those things too, but I can see they are not coming, so I just do what I do.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Have we not considered that by having these provided the very same complaints that the new EPIC "story lines" and "Lore" and "Boss Battles" will no longer be "EPIC" once you gain the new "EPIC REWARDS"?
The main subject of this thread is basically a cyclical "work yourself out of a job" scenario - when you started the content was challenging and fun. Then you demanded the "epic rewards" which made the content too easy. So you get the updated content to make it challenging and giving new "MOAR-EPIC REWARDS" - which makes that content too easy again, so now you want....
You get the idea.
Don't get me wrong, I GET IT. I suspect what's being asked for is "DIFFERENT" Lore, and Bosses, and Rewards - perhaps no "better" or "more powerful" than what is here now, but *different*? Amirite? Just asking.
Why would I do that in the first place? I don't do PvE for fun, I PvE for gear and I bet majority of the playerbase too. I don't want to zerg rush a dragon for hundreds of times to get absolutely unappealing piece of gear, I want to wipe hundreds of times in a party of good players in order to get an epic and valuable piece of gear.
inb4 majority of the playerbase are housewives that don't need a challenge
I don't care if they add better gear or not, but for me the problem is that the situation is like this:
High End PvE content
Normal Player
BiS Player
While it should be like this (like in any other game there is in the universe):
Normal Player
High End PvE content --- BiS Player
Or considering that they add boons, gear and stuff each 3 months, it could be like this:
Normal Player
BiS Player
High End PvE Content
That's not even true. What you are describing is the pre-mod1 state of the players when they were attempting T2's. This was the era when every T2 was exploited because doing it legit was too hard for most players. Pyraphenia in Karru too hard? Just bug the boss so she can't target you. Syndryth in ToS too hard? Just bug the boss so she kills herself. Hrimnir in FH too hard? Just bring a tank to kite the adds while your team *slowly* burns down the boss and hope that you can kill the boss before the GF runs out of pots and/or slips up. (not an "exploit" per se, but definitely not what was intended for that fight.) And Epic DV? Oh don't even think about it. Even now Epic DV remains out of reach for most players. Castle Never? Only go with a TR speedrunner so you could skip most mobs, and in the Draco fight, stack DC's for heals and push the mobs over the fences instead of killing them while the TR soloed the boss.
THAT is what the game was like when everyone was running around with 11k. It certainly wasn't "oh these T2's are so easy now that I have rank 5's and a full T1 set". There were TRUCKLOADS of complaints on the forums about players complaining that it seemed as if you needed T2 gear to even finish the T2 dungeons, and some of the claims actually had some merit. You don't need to engage in revisionist history or trash the content in order to make your point.
If you think the "normal player" has surpassed "high end PVE content", then go do VT as a PUG and tell me how it works out.
What I really think is that the "typical" player, in terms of abilities and gear, is somewhere between "T2/MC (excluding Epic DV)" and "Epic DV/VT/CN".
Your ascii-charts help me understand what you are saying, thank you for that. I'm not sure it's like the top chart, for me it feels more like the middle chart, but the "Content" pip is closer to Normal Player than High End player as some content is still a challenge for me (I don't even try to be a "high-end" player) - but I do get it.
1- Kite adds on bosses is the way to go because Devs made bosses (Like Hrimnir and 95% of them) easy slow and dodgeable, who don't even 1 hit 8k squishy players on DPS classes and DPS build.
2- TR can solo dungeons, but Devs could made Elite and Bosses to notice them, and if Bosses and Elite mobs were actually harder than the trash mobs that are near them it would be imppossible to solo dungeon as a TR.
3- Every other aspect that can be exploited is because of Dev's fault and players who exploit, not ours.
Well, i think i exaggerate, but you understood
As for me, I don't agree with mehguy138, for me PvE is the very enjoyable if you need strategy, good gear, comunication and good players to defeat a hard dungeon.
The problem is that here you finish the game in 1-2 months, and then bye.
I think something good that they could add is a Tower with 100 Floors in which every room is harder than the other or somenthing like that, but make it almost impossible to get to floor 80+ for the current BiS players, so there you have a goal that normal players won't reach for the next 2 years and they won't leave.
I get the idea.
And no.
It has to be BIGGER. BETTER. Truly epic. Make you feel impressed. Make you want to experience it.
I already took part in such PvE in an MMO. I know it is possible. This game, as a D&D game, should be even more developed lore-wise.
I will explain a bit.
LORE
Needs to involve you in the world. Needs to make you want to listen to the actor. Read the text.
You need to CARE about NPCs and their stories. NPCs should be like great actors in a great movie.
BOSSES
Need complex mechanics. Need long fights. Need diversity, not just based on adds. Need to be a part of the lore in a way that makes people CARE.
REWARDS
Need to be worth your time, and be awarded on SKILL and DEDICATION of the player.I cannot stress this enough.
SKILL and DEDICATION = GREAT, UNIQUE REWARDS
What does this mean?
That in the X raid, there is an almost unbeatable Y boss. It drops a unique mount like 1% of the times. It also drops legendary weapons (finite version, not for refining, which is a JOKE).
When you see a guy with the legendary weapon, on some amazing Twilight Drake legendary mount - you KNOW that guy beat the boss. LEGIT. No shortcuts, no bug exploiting.
That guy is a CHAMPION in the virtual world, and everybody know it by solely looking at him. He got his stuff solely by being a good player. Not by shortcutting... either through wallet depth or bug exploiting.
Maybe average players won't beat final bosses in 2 or 3 dungeons, but i bet you they can reach the final boss room on any dungeon, which is very dissapointing.
The point is, people HAD to kite the adds in FH because they COULDN'T kill the adds and the boss simultaneously without wiping. Because it was TOO HARD. And even then, you needed a pretty good tank that wouldn't slip up, and you wanted a player with good burst damage (at the time, a TR) to deal big hits on the boss to whittle him down less slowly. And even then, it wasn't a sure thing that you would finish. Contrary the claims of some here, who think that rank 5's and a T1 set is all you need to just faceroll T2 dungeons. Heck there are teams NOW who have 13k who cannot complete certain T2's. I see it almost every DD hour, teams who want a GF or DC to queue for this or that dungeon because the party kept wiping at the final boss and someone quit.
I don't see the problem. The real challenge in most dungeons *is* the final boss fight, with perhaps Karru being the exception.
That's because they are ppl who came from other mmorpgs in which separate adds from boss isn't so easy and you need to tank them all and/or there aren't so many adds and the boss is actually harder (or the just play bad which is the most common case i bet you), but when they figure it out that they need 1 to kite and the other 4 just ignore the adds and focus the boss it's easy, if they made the boss itself harder (faster, smarter and stronger with no red areas to know where he will hit and with not so many adds making him able to kill the 4 guys that are hiting him) then there wouldn't be an easy - hard mode (kiter = easy, no kiter = hard), it would be hard for anyone and you would want the tank to tank the boss and a healer to heal him.
Gearing my character is my fault? I need to quote it, seriously. Second, if I don't like watermelons I won't change my mind just to eat them and proud that I've become the "vast majority". If I want fun, I play PvP. I pointed out that PvE in this game sucks hard and I won't move on just because of it. Fortunately, this game has good PvP.
But just remember that this is a F2P game. There aren't many F2P games with good/challenging PvE content, and I'd say Neverwinter is still in the top of them.
By the way: the Ragnarök Online's PvE consists in bosses hitting hard. That's it. There's no mechanic there.
You got that right.
There are a LOT of players out there that are just not very good - they want to have fun, and that's great, but they don't work their class efficiently. I have been in many PUGs doing short dungeon runs in DR and Shar, and the skill levels of the players have varied by huge margins. I probably fit right in the middle myself - don't always work my class to its fullest potential, but I am a very strong team player and will help anyone whenever I can.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I don't know what kind of mmorpgs you play, but even for bis there should be some kind of challenge and here you won't find any from 14k.