doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited March 2014
How is it people are saying TR have zero cc when they have two abilities I know of as I get him by both of them often that causes stun? yeah you might not be stuck to the floor unable to move but you cant' attack nor activate a power. So the idea that you think they have none is so misguided its scary.
I do agree give some of your abilities to deal damage back, but once you attack and leave stealth you are vulnerable, i'm assuming that is how it used to be, yeah if you got to sneak on someone they probably died but then everyone else jumped all over you and you died.
I also agree that everyone is going to complain about every other class. Which is why I think in an MMO you shouldn't have pvp, or if you do then it needs to have a whole separate aspect to it, as in you eitehr play the game do dungeons, enjoy storyline and the like or you pvp. pvp should have varied builds but essentially all the same and pit skill v skill not gear v gear.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited March 2014
You probably play a rogue the way its meant ot be played, people that whine over that just are babies, I accept that getting back stabbed by the rogue will kill or at least nearly kill you. Its the non targetable thing that seems to really peeve people and myself. I am not voting to kill their damage, but they can solo dungeons due to this practice which is unfair anyone as they are the only class that can do that.
My thoughts have alwayss been leave how it affects other skills as is, but instead of making them totally invisible it makes them more damage resistant, maybe making their deflect chance higher (although they seem to already have this) or make them mroe damage resistant by giving them say a base % that lowers as the stealth metered is depleted.
mod note: merged a number of perma stealth discussions - please try to find current thread discussions and contribute to those before opening a new thread. it is better for the devs to have all feedback in one thread than scattered all over the place. thanks.
do not reply to this mod note. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
Rogue DPS out of stealth HAS to be burst. They don't stay alive long enough for sustained damage.
This is not true, TRs can use CC encounters (Daze/Smoke), re-stealthing encounters (Shadow/BaS) or nearly invulnerable encounters (ITC)
What I am saying is there are clearly encounters that have been strong that are no longer because of changes. I would love to see lashing blade come back in the pvp arena, and I think the way to do that and make it fair to both sides is to do as I suggested:
Make Lashing Blade stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (from 20 to 10 seconds) INSTEAD of 100% crit. ALSO, make the damage delt deal 50% of its current damage upfront with another 50% following over 5 seconds as a DOT.
This still makes it ALOT of damage but noone uses it because the long CD... Since crits were nerfed alot giving it 100% crit chance isnt really that big a deal... but a 50% reduced CD would make this VERY attractive since it is a hard hitting ability, THAT would make it OP so to combat THAT, making it deal half of its damage as a DOT balances it out...
This would make more TRs have more options for encounters. I know this Lashing change would maybe make me bring my TR out of retirement just to have some fun with it again.
This is not true, TRs can use CC encounters (Daze/Smoke), re-stealthing encounters (Shadow/BaS) or nearly invulnerable encounters (ITC)
What I am saying is there are clearly encounters that have been strong that are no longer because of changes. I would love to see lashing blade come back in the pvp arena, and I think the way to do that and make it fair to both sides is to do as I suggested:
Make Lashing Blade stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (from 20 to 10 seconds) INSTEAD of 100% crit. ALSO, make the damage delt deal 50% of its current damage upfront with another 50% following over 5 seconds as a DOT.
This still makes it ALOT of damage but noone uses it because the long CD... Since crits were nerfed alot giving it 100% crit chance isnt really that big a deal... but a 50% reduced CD would make this VERY attractive since it is a hard hitting ability, THAT would make it OP so to combat THAT, making it deal half of its damage as a DOT balances it out...
This would make more TRs have more options for encounters. I know this Lashing change would maybe make me bring my TR out of retirement just to have some fun with it again.
1st off, both of our cc r easily countered. dazing strike rarely hits unless the person is already distracted by multiple people and smoke bomb just makes people run out of it and we can't hit a moving target with melee. smoke bomb also does not save us from wizards/hunters sniping us down from outside the smoke or a gwf/rogue with immunity.
also, prones can interrupt ITC and send it straight to cooldown. it's y guardians/gwf's like to be in our face so much.
since stealth is most likely getting nerfed to be pointless to attack in, bait n switch and shadow strike will likely lose much of it's value unless the rogue is distracting at enemy home node.
and idk about that lashing change. we tend to need our damage instantly rather than as a dot because we don't have much time to kill someone b4 3 people kill us. and criticals are not that bad because i can still hit 11k with my lashing on wizards. reduced cooldown is nice, but i still think i like the critical more.
It is really sad they had to DESTROY a TR class because of this 1 build which is making people angry, and it is even more sad that this build is the only option left if you wanna be really efective in pvp...
And the funniest/saddest thing is, since the game was realased people cried about tr because of 2 main reasons: 1-shoting ppl, and their ability to being permanently stealthed. And here we are almost 1 year later, in the post about OP perma-stealthed trs, just under the post about SE 1-shooting ppl...
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
As already suggested somewhere else to that topic: I'd like to see only a small change so that:
1. Boss encounters in epic dungeons can not be soloed anymore
2. As soon as the rogue damages a player, this player (and only this player!!) will briefly see the rogue for a short time.
Reasons:
Point 1 is IMO obvious because soloing bosses which are meant to do it as a group fall under the category of exploits.
I hope that even players who play TR mainly will understand the reason for point 2:
Point 2 is especially important for CWs who are generally so squishy that they depend on avoiding all damage. Knifespam may not hurt a gwf/gf or HR much, but for a CW its already ALOT damage unless you spec as some sort of meatball (and this would not be a mage, it would be a freak...). So they need a chance to counter the damage with their spells without long searching for the rogue. I know seaching for the rogue is not hard, but for a CW it still takes too long in general. Of couse the balance must be in such a way so that the TR still has a chance to avoid getting chainlocked. This is a delicate task.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
As already suggested somewhere else to that topic: I'd like to see only a small change so that:
1. Boss encounters in epic dungeons can not be soloed anymore
2. As soon as the rogue damages a player, this player (and only this player!!) will briefly see the rogue for a short time.
Reasons:
Point 1 is IMO obvious because soloing bosses which are meant to do it as a group fall under the category of exploits.
I hope that even players who play TR mainly will understand the reason for point 2:
Point 2 is especially important for CWs who are generally so squishy that they depend on avoiding all damage. Knifespam may not hurt a gwf/gf or HR much, but for a CW its already ALOT damage unless you spec as some sort of meatball (and this would not be a mage, it would be a freak...). So they need a chance to counter the damage with their spells without long searching for the rogue. I know seaching for the rogue is not hard, but for a CW it still takes too long in general.
1) doesn't matter too much to me about as it takes a long time (barring exploits).
As already suggested somewhere else to that topic: I'd like to see only a small change so that:
1. Boss encounters in epic dungeons can not be soloed anymore
2. As soon as the rogue damages a player, this player (and only this player!!) will briefly see the rogue for a short time.
Reasons:
Point 1 is IMO obvious because soloing bosses which are meant to do it as a group fall under the category of exploits.
I hope that even players who play TR mainly will understand the reason for point 2:
Point 2 is especially important for CWs who are generally so squishy that they depend on avoiding all damage. Knifespam may not hurt a gwf/gf or HR much, but for a CW its already ALOT damage unless you spec as some sort of meatball (and this would not be a mage, it would be a freak...). So they need a chance to counter the damage with their spells without long searching for the rogue. I know seaching for the rogue is not hard, but for a CW it still takes too long in general. Of couse the balance must be in such a way so that the TR still has a chance to avoid getting chainlocked. This is a delicate task.
Your point 1 is invalid. They're not exploiting, they're overgeared for the simplistic boss fights in neverwinter.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Your point 1 is invalid. They're not exploiting, they're overgeared for the simplistic boss fights in neverwinter.
It is not invalid, because it is by definition an 'exploit' if you take into consideration that the dungeons are not meant to be soloed in the context when they were created.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Your point 1 is invalid. They're not exploiting, they're overgeared for the simplistic boss fights in neverwinter.
Both are invalid.
1) Even DC can solo some T2 bosses, not only TR. And it is useless anyway until you can't solo queue.
2) Do you really want nerf stealth so you can play glass cannon CW in pvp? Perma-stealth TR is just answer for nerfs, nothing more.
It is really sad they had to DESTROY a TR class because of this 1 build which is making people angry, and it is even more sad that this build is the only option left if you wanna be really efective in pvp...
And the funniest/saddest thing is, since the game was realased people cried about tr because of 2 main reasons: 1-shoting ppl, and their ability to being permanently stealthed. And here we are almost 1 year later, in the post about OP perma-stealthed trs, just under the post about SE 1-shooting ppl...
I don't understand, do you think people shouldn't be yelling about 1-shotting? No logical person could assert that. You can't look at this and say "That's balanced." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJiUza3gdqs
Just because TR was initially able to ONESHOT with an ENCOUNTER doesn't mean it must be okay. And now, due to INT-roll abuse, tenacity, and other factors, a properly geared TR can deal damage from stealth with zero risk by pushing 4 buttons and keeping out of stealth-detection visual range of players, which, with just 100ms lag, is extremely small.
I'm a 20k GF and even if I do connect with a Frontline based on hearing swishes from CoS (which is a ridiculous concept in and of itself), I then must hope I can find his stealthed/knocked-down body before he gets up and rolls away, chain a Bullcharge, and follow with Lunging. Even then, any TR at an equivalent GS to me - or even lower - (about 15k - mine is inflated because of Reckless Attacker) won't be dead because of deflect/regen/defense levels at such a gear score.
No logical person could look at that and say "Balanced, working as intended."
I LOVE the idea of rogues being these stealthy ninjas, that you always must be on your toes looking for the sneaky buggers, but if you can't bring them out of stealth before you die without using Briartwine reflects draining their stealth, then they're broken. Make stealth strength (not meter, strength, range of stealth, whatever you want to call it) deplete on a per-hit-on-target basis - I dont care how stealthy anybody is, if they're throwing 20 knives at me, my character should be able to deduce the direction they're coming from.
I feel worse for CWs, they have no method at all of even determining whether a stealthed rogue is attacking from the front or the back... At least I've got my shield.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited March 2014
Really, the saddest part of that video is that 23k damage is enough to one shot players at full health.
Let me just give you the smallest, most basic advice for PvP: You Need More HP Than That.
Really, the saddest part of that video is that 23k damage is enough to one shot players at full health.
Let me just give you the smallest, most basic advice for PvP: You Need More HP Than That.
Five things.
ONE - the 23k was on a GF, look closer, there are some 30k+.
TWO- LOL YOU THINK 30K CRITS ARE OKAY
THREE -The video is ages old, just to show a point. Getting to 35k HP (and decent defense/deflect etc... because of artifact inflation) was not at easy as it is now.
FOUR - Even if people do get 40k HP (because everybody is clearly a 16k GWF), you cannot possibly assert that any class should be allowed to open combat with one button and instantly gain a 100% vs. 25% HP advantage. Please be logical and fair here, I dont think I'm being ridiculous.
FIVE - again, this was just an example of OPness in the past and is now irrelevant to this discussion, I was simply discrediting the poster I quoted as being completely illogical.
I'm pretty sure that's every mmo in history then as each and every one has people soloing them once they outgear them. The difference in this case is that they made simple easy bosses that can rapidly be overgeared. The timeframe is different here in neverwinter but not the actions.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
2) Do you really want nerf stealth so you can play glass cannon CW in pvp? Perma-stealth TR is just answer for nerfs, nothing more.
Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason: As CW you wear cloth so you generally have to avoid damage entirely using your skills. P-stealth therefore gives IMO a too big advantage even if searching for the rogue isnt that hard. And IMO mages are by nature meant as glass cannons and therefore require skill to avoid getting damage. To be forced to build your char as meatball (as reaction to unavoidable knifespam and Frontline surge chainlocks) is IMO not how it should be.
And P.stealth it is also not an 'answer' to anything, because it was critizised since the game came out. IMO it was tolerated because all other classes apart of CWs (and very squishy newbies) dont have much problems with knifespam and there were more important problems to adress.
If you would read my suggestion you would see that all I want is to give a better chance to react without long searching for the rogue, because this is IMO a too big advantage.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I already said in my post that if stealth gets nerfed, in either way that i suggested, that they should get their DPS back. They are meant to be a high single target damage class but as long as the perma build is allowed people are going to be very unhappy.
As for your suggestion on giving TR CC....no. They already have smoke bomb, not only that, every class shouldn't be able to do anything it wants. You don't see a CW healing others or a GWF going into stealth, classes need to be different, balanced, but different.
Which I'm very aware of and probably why i suggest nerfing stealth and giving them back their DPS, no?
Hi. Only the first few portions of the post addressing how it was the nerfs for our DPS that promoted TR's to play with stealth builds were intended for you. The rest were contributions to the topic in itself. Apologies for the confusion.
And no, apparently your claims for awareness proves otherwise, seeing as you would say something as misinformed as this.
The main reason the TR even got so many nerfs and debuffs to me, is to compensate for the fact people were using permas, and nerfed the class as a whole instead of solving the issue of why people thought/think TR is "OP".
Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason: As CW you wear cloth so you generally have to avoid damage entirely using your skills. P-stealth therefore gives IMO a too big advantage even if searching for the rogue isnt that hard. And IMO mages are by nature meant as glass cannons and therefore require skill to avoid getting damage. To be forced to build your char as meatball (as reaction to unavoidable knifespam and Frontline surge chainlocks) is IMO not how it should be.
And P.stealth it is also not an 'answer' to anything, because it was critizised since the game came out. IMO it was tolerated because all other classes apart of CWs (and very squishy newbies) dont have much problems with knifespam and there were more important problems to adress.
If you would read my suggestion you would see that all I want is to give a better chance to react without long searching for the rogue, because this is IMO a too big advantage.
Well, I'm playing mmorpgs for about 10 years, mostly PvP. In every single game was mage, wizard, sage, warlock, sorcerer, ...etc in pvp builded as ''meatball'', doing control, support & utility. Here it is same and I don't see nothing wrong about that.
...bla bla bla cloth armor bla bla bla... mages are by nature meant as glass cannons bla bla bla...
Glass cannon caster = PvE or for fun build to smash random PvE & low geared folks (no chance in competive PvP) Deal with it.
Permas - It is answer for nerfs because TR is now useless in pve as cookie cutter => many TRs retrained for pure pvp build and because both TRs main nuke encounters are nerfed, they are going for perma stealth or semi-perma ITC steath.
For instance, in other PW game, Star Trek Online, cloaked ships are able to do some stuff while cloaked. Ie firing heals, torpedos. But they cannot use main asset - Energy weapons, which deal most damage. They cant even cap point while cloaked. That is the way NW Rogues must go. U must give something for your invisibillty.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
For instance, in other PW game, Star Trek Online, cloaked ships are able to do some stuff while cloaked. Ie firing heals, torpedos. But they cannot use main asset - Energy weapons, which deal most damage. They cant even cap point while cloaked. That is the way NW Rogues must go. U must give something for your invisibillty.
You mean something like feats, armor set, ability roll, stats & 2 encounter slots?
No, no, certian abilities are just greyed out - they just cant be used while cloaked/stealthed. Once they exit cloak/stealth, everything is on.
You kind of missed the point.
Perma needs a four pc set, 8 feat points, int as a starting roll priority, at least some level ups into int, that means their dex, cha, con, and str will likely be lower than a non perma, 2 encounters that deal low or no damage.
You see if tr's could say be a perma and only use encounter powers while stealthed but not have to do any of the above you have a sto analogy.
Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason: As CW you wear cloth so you generally have to avoid damage entirely using your skills. P-stealth therefore gives IMO a too big advantage even if searching for the rogue isnt that hard. And IMO mages are by nature meant as glass cannons and therefore require skill to avoid getting damage. To be forced to build your char as meatball (as reaction to unavoidable knifespam and Frontline surge chainlocks) is IMO not how it should be.
And P.stealth it is also not an 'answer' to anything, because it was critizised since the game came out. IMO it was tolerated because all other classes apart of CWs (and very squishy newbies) dont have much problems with knifespam and there were more important problems to adress.
If you would read my suggestion you would see that all I want is to give a better chance to react without long searching for the rogue, because this is IMO a too big advantage.
I can't tell if your serious or trying to troll?,
because permastealth came into the metagame AFTER the DMG nerf, not Before, several players called you out on your incorrect chronology. If your going to argue something at least get you facts right.But now that i think about it,I'm starting to feel you don;t believe what your saying and actually trying to get a rise out of people, otherwise you would have corrected your error awhile ago when making your arguments, since several people already pointed that out before.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well, I'm playing mmorpgs for about 10 years, mostly PvP. In every single game was mage, wizard, sage, warlock, sorcerer, ...etc in pvp builded as ''meatball'', doing control, support & utility. Here it is same and I don't see nothing wrong about that.
Its getting a bit off-topic talking about other games, but let me respond to that: I have similar long time XP in WoW, playing as mage in PvP. Then you would know that this 'meat' comes naturally with PvP gear. No one would seriously consider to socket more HP on his gear as a mage.
Permas - It is answer for nerfs because TR is now useless in pve as cookie cutter => many TRs retrained for pure pvp build and because both TRs main nuke encounters are nerfed, they are going for perma stealth or semi-perma ITC steath.
Honestly I saw enough TRs which are just doing fine in PVE. If they are not in the top dmg list the reason is generally because there are so many adds in the dungeons and they lack in AOE. Future dungeons could maybe contain only a few - but difficult - bosses and adds here and there, but not en mass.
Of course: if you run around with a build which focuses on the permstealth exploit by dropping useful PVE feats, then it is normal that your TR will become very useless in PVE. On a sidenote: I am also fine if the TRs damage is buffed again if as compensation he turns shortly visible for his victim when dealing damage. This is also in most other games I know about (if you said you had XP in other games you know this as well).
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Comments
I do agree give some of your abilities to deal damage back, but once you attack and leave stealth you are vulnerable, i'm assuming that is how it used to be, yeah if you got to sneak on someone they probably died but then everyone else jumped all over you and you died.
I also agree that everyone is going to complain about every other class. Which is why I think in an MMO you shouldn't have pvp, or if you do then it needs to have a whole separate aspect to it, as in you eitehr play the game do dungeons, enjoy storyline and the like or you pvp. pvp should have varied builds but essentially all the same and pit skill v skill not gear v gear.
My thoughts have alwayss been leave how it affects other skills as is, but instead of making them totally invisible it makes them more damage resistant, maybe making their deflect chance higher (although they seem to already have this) or make them mroe damage resistant by giving them say a base % that lowers as the stealth metered is depleted.
TRs have the highest burst DPS in PVP bar none
TRs have a RANGED attack while stealthed.
Also, using an artifact with a 3 minute cooldown just to have the chance to see the TR is plain stupid.
Fail unbalanced class is fail.
do not reply to this mod note. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
This is not true, TRs can use CC encounters (Daze/Smoke), re-stealthing encounters (Shadow/BaS) or nearly invulnerable encounters (ITC)
What I am saying is there are clearly encounters that have been strong that are no longer because of changes. I would love to see lashing blade come back in the pvp arena, and I think the way to do that and make it fair to both sides is to do as I suggested:
Make Lashing Blade stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (from 20 to 10 seconds) INSTEAD of 100% crit. ALSO, make the damage delt deal 50% of its current damage upfront with another 50% following over 5 seconds as a DOT.
This still makes it ALOT of damage but noone uses it because the long CD... Since crits were nerfed alot giving it 100% crit chance isnt really that big a deal... but a 50% reduced CD would make this VERY attractive since it is a hard hitting ability, THAT would make it OP so to combat THAT, making it deal half of its damage as a DOT balances it out...
This would make more TRs have more options for encounters. I know this Lashing change would maybe make me bring my TR out of retirement just to have some fun with it again.
1st off, both of our cc r easily countered. dazing strike rarely hits unless the person is already distracted by multiple people and smoke bomb just makes people run out of it and we can't hit a moving target with melee. smoke bomb also does not save us from wizards/hunters sniping us down from outside the smoke or a gwf/rogue with immunity.
also, prones can interrupt ITC and send it straight to cooldown. it's y guardians/gwf's like to be in our face so much.
since stealth is most likely getting nerfed to be pointless to attack in, bait n switch and shadow strike will likely lose much of it's value unless the rogue is distracting at enemy home node.
and idk about that lashing change. we tend to need our damage instantly rather than as a dot because we don't have much time to kill someone b4 3 people kill us. and criticals are not that bad because i can still hit 11k with my lashing on wizards. reduced cooldown is nice, but i still think i like the critical more.
And the funniest/saddest thing is, since the game was realased people cried about tr because of 2 main reasons: 1-shoting ppl, and their ability to being permanently stealthed. And here we are almost 1 year later, in the post about OP perma-stealthed trs, just under the post about SE 1-shooting ppl...
1. Boss encounters in epic dungeons can not be soloed anymore
2. As soon as the rogue damages a player, this player (and only this player!!) will briefly see the rogue for a short time.
Reasons:
Point 1 is IMO obvious because soloing bosses which are meant to do it as a group fall under the category of exploits.
I hope that even players who play TR mainly will understand the reason for point 2:
Point 2 is especially important for CWs who are generally so squishy that they depend on avoiding all damage. Knifespam may not hurt a gwf/gf or HR much, but for a CW its already ALOT damage unless you spec as some sort of meatball (and this would not be a mage, it would be a freak...). So they need a chance to counter the damage with their spells without long searching for the rogue. I know seaching for the rogue is not hard, but for a CW it still takes too long in general. Of couse the balance must be in such a way so that the TR still has a chance to avoid getting chainlocked. This is a delicate task.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
1) doesn't matter too much to me about as it takes a long time (barring exploits).
2) makes sense though.
Your point 1 is invalid. They're not exploiting, they're overgeared for the simplistic boss fights in neverwinter.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
No, its called bad game design
Both are invalid.
1) Even DC can solo some T2 bosses, not only TR. And it is useless anyway until you can't solo queue.
2) Do you really want nerf stealth so you can play glass cannon CW in pvp? Perma-stealth TR is just answer for nerfs, nothing more.
Edit: It had to be reply to adernath...nwm
I don't understand, do you think people shouldn't be yelling about 1-shotting? No logical person could assert that. You can't look at this and say "That's balanced." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJiUza3gdqs
Just because TR was initially able to ONESHOT with an ENCOUNTER doesn't mean it must be okay. And now, due to INT-roll abuse, tenacity, and other factors, a properly geared TR can deal damage from stealth with zero risk by pushing 4 buttons and keeping out of stealth-detection visual range of players, which, with just 100ms lag, is extremely small.
I'm a 20k GF and even if I do connect with a Frontline based on hearing swishes from CoS (which is a ridiculous concept in and of itself), I then must hope I can find his stealthed/knocked-down body before he gets up and rolls away, chain a Bullcharge, and follow with Lunging. Even then, any TR at an equivalent GS to me - or even lower - (about 15k - mine is inflated because of Reckless Attacker) won't be dead because of deflect/regen/defense levels at such a gear score.
No logical person could look at that and say "Balanced, working as intended."
I LOVE the idea of rogues being these stealthy ninjas, that you always must be on your toes looking for the sneaky buggers, but if you can't bring them out of stealth before you die without using Briartwine reflects draining their stealth, then they're broken. Make stealth strength (not meter, strength, range of stealth, whatever you want to call it) deplete on a per-hit-on-target basis - I dont care how stealthy anybody is, if they're throwing 20 knives at me, my character should be able to deduce the direction they're coming from.
I feel worse for CWs, they have no method at all of even determining whether a stealthed rogue is attacking from the front or the back... At least I've got my shield.
Let me just give you the smallest, most basic advice for PvP: You Need More HP Than That.
Five things.
ONE - the 23k was on a GF, look closer, there are some 30k+.
TWO- LOL YOU THINK 30K CRITS ARE OKAY
THREE -The video is ages old, just to show a point. Getting to 35k HP (and decent defense/deflect etc... because of artifact inflation) was not at easy as it is now.
FOUR - Even if people do get 40k HP (because everybody is clearly a 16k GWF), you cannot possibly assert that any class should be allowed to open combat with one button and instantly gain a 100% vs. 25% HP advantage. Please be logical and fair here, I dont think I'm being ridiculous.
FIVE - again, this was just an example of OPness in the past and is now irrelevant to this discussion, I was simply discrediting the poster I quoted as being completely illogical.
Fixed for you.
You are welcome.
I'm pretty sure that's every mmo in history then as each and every one has people soloing them once they outgear them. The difference in this case is that they made simple easy bosses that can rapidly be overgeared. The timeframe is different here in neverwinter but not the actions.
And P.stealth it is also not an 'answer' to anything, because it was critizised since the game came out. IMO it was tolerated because all other classes apart of CWs (and very squishy newbies) dont have much problems with knifespam and there were more important problems to adress.
If you would read my suggestion you would see that all I want is to give a better chance to react without long searching for the rogue, because this is IMO a too big advantage.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Hi. Only the first few portions of the post addressing how it was the nerfs for our DPS that promoted TR's to play with stealth builds were intended for you. The rest were contributions to the topic in itself. Apologies for the confusion.
And no, apparently your claims for awareness proves otherwise, seeing as you would say something as misinformed as this.
Well, I'm playing mmorpgs for about 10 years, mostly PvP. In every single game was mage, wizard, sage, warlock, sorcerer, ...etc in pvp builded as ''meatball'', doing control, support & utility. Here it is same and I don't see nothing wrong about that.
...bla bla bla cloth armor bla bla bla... mages are by nature meant as glass cannons bla bla bla...
Glass cannon caster = PvE or for fun build to smash random PvE & low geared folks (no chance in competive PvP) Deal with it.
Permas - It is answer for nerfs because TR is now useless in pve as cookie cutter => many TRs retrained for pure pvp build and because both TRs main nuke encounters are nerfed, they are going for perma stealth or semi-perma ITC steath.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
You mean something like feats, armor set, ability roll, stats & 2 encounter slots?
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Perma needs a four pc set, 8 feat points, int as a starting roll priority, at least some level ups into int, that means their dex, cha, con, and str will likely be lower than a non perma, 2 encounters that deal low or no damage.
You see if tr's could say be a perma and only use encounter powers while stealthed but not have to do any of the above you have a sto analogy.
I can't tell if your serious or trying to troll?,
because permastealth came into the metagame AFTER the DMG nerf, not Before, several players called you out on your incorrect chronology. If your going to argue something at least get you facts right.But now that i think about it,I'm starting to feel you don;t believe what your saying and actually trying to get a rise out of people, otherwise you would have corrected your error awhile ago when making your arguments, since several people already pointed that out before.
Of course: if you run around with a build which focuses on the permstealth exploit by dropping useful PVE feats, then it is normal that your TR will become very useless in PVE. On a sidenote: I am also fine if the TRs damage is buffed again if as compensation he turns shortly visible for his victim when dealing damage. This is also in most other games I know about (if you said you had XP in other games you know this as well).
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)