which new pvp set?

dodgo

i heard some people sayin new CW t2 set (rather than T2.5 set) is better... why? any thoughts?

dodgo

really? nothing?

readytoredrum

I need to know more of what exact numbers tenacity gives but the stats are much higher

davecheese

After a quick glance at the Grim Gloves (that you can trade in for existing GG gloves):

Opressor gives +251 power, +251 recovery, +229 Def, +113 Regm +162 Tenacity
Renegade gives +113 power, +251 recovery, +229 Def, +251 Crit, +162 Tenacity
Thaum gives +229 Def, +251 Crit, +251 AP, +454 HP


The Profound set stats are about +5 to +7 on top of each, but don't forget the set bonus is better.

helpimblindinrl

I just made this thread right after you. I think rene looks best because armour pen doesnt work with lots of stuff (last 2 hits on magic missile, chill strike, coi, storm spell (may be based on whether or not the encounter that procced it benefited from armor pen), oppressive force, icy terrain, sudden storm (normal+mastery+dot in mastery), icy rays, ice knife) and the returns on power in pvp aren't huge anyway especially considering the larger resistances people have now

davecheese

See, I thought Rene was third choice, because the crit bonus is less useful with EotS

I like Oppressor because of the power and regen, I like Thaum because of the AP and HP. I'm well aware the AP bug has been greatly reported... which is why I'm leaning towards Oppressor.

davecheese

Base PvP resists are 10%

738 tenacity (from four pieces of the replacement grim armour) gives +8.5% Damage resist, Crit Resist and Control resist

twstdecho

I went Thaum for the HP and Defense boost. With my HV set, I never needed high defense, so it was a perfect match for my existing set up. I will need to swap some gear around now though, because my crit is around 4k now.

gornonthecob

The armors really do cast a dividing line between PvP and PvE armor. Until now I've been running the GG armor as both, and now I'm completely torn between trading in my armor or even ever touching PvP again, because without tenacity, you'll be completely worthless.

I'm looking at orbs in contrast to my GG orb. (bug says I lose 1dmg)
I honestly cannot justify trading it in even though I never use this orb anymore lol.

From what I can tell, the gear is equally nerfed when compared to the old Gauntlgrym stuff. There is an 80 gear score loss across the board (per piece) EXCEPT for the Orb. The Grim Orb of the Thaumaturge only loses 45 Gear score in the transition.

*EDIT* Actually, in doing a bit more math, it looks like the whole Thaumaturge set is the closest you can get to keeping your gear score up. You'll consistently lose 80 GS per piece from the Oppressor and Renegade sets. But the Thaumaturge is shaping up to be the least detrimental to GS.

vorphied

I decided to go with Oppressor. The extra HP from Thaum would be nice, but I'm not digging the loss of Power and Regen (even considering Healing Depression). I also don't care for the idea of losing the Recovery since I would have to change out my accessories to compensate. I don't find the additional crit from Thaum or Rene pieces to be necessary.

We'll all need to farm glory etc. for the Profound sets anyway, so this is a good time to experiment with the GG-equivalent sets.

pers3phone

I'll try to play in HV. To hell with these sets I hate them!

Don't target my CW please! Queue never pops so you won't find in PvP anyway.

vorphied

pers3phone wrote: »

I'll try to play in HV. To hell with these sets I hate them!

Don't target my CW please! Queue never pops so you won't find in PvP anyway.

The sets are definitely inferior in every way except that for the Tenacity part. I would love to actually be able to play some matches to test the difference :P

pers3phone

vorphied wrote: »

The sets are definitely inferior in every way except that for the Tenacity part. I would love to actually be able to play some matches to test the difference :P

How?

The queue disappears as soon as I enter it.

Just like it did on Preview. And we offered feedback about this bug directly to devs.

As I said.

GG releasing experimental stuff and treating customers like rats.

pointsman

What are the 4pc bonuses? Are they viable for PVE?

beckylunatic

pointsman wrote: »

What are the 4pc bonuses? Are they viable for PVE?

On all sets, they're a further juiced-up version of the 4-piece bonus that was offered by the old PvP and GG sets. PvE viability depends. It always was fine if you're a TR. I don't think too many CWs were in love with the GG set unless it was a budget option for them.

pointsman

I have a full GG set, just sitting in my bank, and I'm wondering if I should even trade it in.

I guess it depends on if Mod3 does depend on doing PVP to make progress with one's character.

vorphied

pers3phone wrote: »

How?

The queue disappears as soon as I enter it.

Just like it did on Preview. And we offered feedback about this bug directly to devs.

As I said.

GG releasing experimental stuff and treating customers like rats.

Yes, the issue with the queue not working properly is exactly why I can't test anything.

By the time I got around to acquiring the GG gear that I previously didn't care about, the character transfer to Preview was borked, and I was too lazy to attempt to work around it.

Anyway, let's see what happens. I'm not getting my undergarments in a knot until I get some actual play time, though I do suspect that I will be quite unhappy with at least a couple of changes :P

davecheese

I'm having some luck with CoI on tab, Icy Rays, Entangling Force and Ray of Enfeeblement with the Thaum Grim set.

silverquick

beckylunatic wrote: »

On all sets, they're a further juiced-up version of the 4-piece bonus that was offered by the old PvP and GG sets. PvE viability depends. It always was fine if you're a TR. I don't think too many CWs were in love with the GG set unless it was a budget option for them.

Honestly it depends,

I have both HV and Champion. With Sudden Storm in your Mastery Slot, the option to use it comes up much faster than HV. But the initial damage from your encounters is higher in HV.

So the question is, how tight are the quarters, and how likely are you to be able to launch multiple Sudden Strikes into large crowds of enemies.

If its very likely, then Champion wins hands down because launching multiple Sudden Storms into large crowds of enemies racks up damage like you wouldn't believe. Champion Armor allows you to do this.

If not, and you're only going to generally have one shot at it, then the HV is better. Or if multiple mages in group have the HV then you might consider Champion.

So it depends really on the circumstances.

vorphied

silverquick wrote: »

Honestly it depends,

I have both HV and Champion. With Sudden Storm in your Mastery Slot, the option to use it comes up much faster than HV. But the initial damage from your encounters is higher in HV.

So the question is, how tight are the quarters, and how likely are you to be able to launch multiple Sudden Strikes into large crowds of enemies.

If its very likely, then Champion wins hands down because launching multiple Sudden Storms into large crowds of enemies racks up damage like you wouldn't believe. Champion Armor allows you to do this.

If not, and you're only going to generally have one shot at it, then the HV is better. Or if multiple mages in group have the HV then you might consider Champion.

So it depends really on the circumstances.

Actually, Sudden Storm benefits the least from the Champion set bonus. The difference is barely noticeable on powers with low base cooldowns. Even on longer cooldown powers like Icy Rays and Shard, you're only cutting a couple of seconds off. It's significant, but not game-changing.

PvE-wise, HV is superior without question. For PvP, I'm liking the Oppressor set, though I'm hoping to eventually achieve an acceptable level of Tenacity with PvP accessories so that I can try using HV again.

silverquick

vorphied wrote: »

Actually, Sudden Storm benefits the least from the Champion set bonus. .

Well I don't know about you, but mine cuts off almost a full second refresh time on Sudden Storm.

So I can do a Steal Time, Sudden Storm, Shards, then another Sudden Storm.

I cannot do the same that fast in HV. It's not even close.

I have both sets my friend and have tested in both. I KNOW which one I can and cannot do things in.

I cannot do the same things in HV than I can in Champion without getting slaughtered with that move in large crowds of mobs. And yes it does a ton more damage in tight areas with a lot of mobs, HV is not fast enough, and Sudden Storm has no limits in number of targets.

vorphied

silverquick wrote: »

Well I don't know about you, but mine cuts off almost a full second refresh time on Sudden Storm.

So I can do a Steal Time, Sudden Storm, Shards, then another Sudden Storm.

I cannot do the same that fast in HV. It's not even close.

I have both sets my friend and have tested in both. I KNOW which one I can and cannot do things in.

I cannot do the same things in HV than I can in Champion without getting slaughtered with that move in large crowds of mobs. And yes it does a ton more damage in tight areas with a lot of mobs, HV is not fast enough, and Sudden Storm has no limits in number of targets.

"Almost a full second"? That's really not a lot of time, even considering that this game is fairly fast-paced.

Sudden Storm is a great power; it's a staple in my PvE rotation. You won't find me trying to tell you not to use it. I'm just saying that the 30% refresh bonus from Champion on 1 Tab power (which in this case amounts to less than a second's difference) doesn't compensate for the massive loss in overall damage potential compared to HV. I'll take up to 30% extra damage on all powers over 5% bonus damage on that ever-so-slightly faster Tab power.

All that being said, you should of course play however you feel most effective. If you're really loving that Champion set bonus, then go for it

silverquick

vorphied wrote: »

"Almost a full second"? That's really not a lot of time, even considering that this game is fairly fast-paced.

All that being said, you should of course play however you feel most effective. If you're really loving that Champion set bonus, then go for it

Actually it is my friend that one second means a lot,

and I can give you various places where that split second actually does exactly what I'm saying.

Lair of the Pirate King: The mobs here can be caught with steal time in perfect formation of sets of upwards of 10 or more. Once you steal time you only have very limited time they are in a combat advantage situation. A Sudden Strike into this formation nets upwards of hundreds of thousands of overall damage on a crit. especially in the boss fight with all the adds. Shards after that prones them. Getting a second sudden strike in on that formation in essence doubles your damage.

Downside to that is, once you do those moves you have a horde of angry mobs all wanting you dead. So if you pull off the second sudden strike there's almost none left. If you can't they'll pummel you into the ground very quickly, and you won't be able to pop out in time.

In HV, you'll get your initial 3 moves off before you have to teleport, with in Champion you get 4 moves in that space of time.

This is also the case in other large crowd of mobs dungeons like Frozen Heart and Spellplague as well (and Valindra's Tower too). But in dungeons where you cannot catch the mobs in large crowds like that, then HV is the better choices as each individual move in HV will net greater damage, vs 4 moves doing much higher damage in Champion.

So the situation will dictate which one is the better choice depending on where you are.

dodgo

davecheese wrote: »

Base PvP resists are 10%

738 tenacity (from four pieces of the replacement grim armour) gives +8.5% Damage resist, Crit Resist and Control resist

they should have just called tenacity (wiz nerf

kozi001

Opressor : regen is nerfed by healing deppression.

So its +113power +251rec(rene) vs +251Arp + 454HP(thaum)

Well I think Thaum it is. No wonder that HRs are stealing kills all the time because of their high Arp.

vorphied

silverquick wrote: »

Actually it is my friend that one second means a lot,

and I can give you various places where that split second actually does exactly what I'm saying.

Lair of the Pirate King: The mobs here can be caught with steal time in perfect formation of sets of upwards of 10 or more. Once you steal time you only have very limited time they are in a combat advantage situation. A Sudden Strike into this formation nets upwards of hundreds of thousands of overall damage on a crit. especially in the boss fight with all the adds. Shards after that prones them. Getting a second sudden strike in on that formation in essence doubles your damage.

Downside to that is, once you do those moves you have a horde of angry mobs all wanting you dead. So if you pull off the second sudden strike there's almost none left. If you can't they'll pummel you into the ground very quickly, and you won't be able to pop out in time.

In HV, you'll get your initial 3 moves off before you have to teleport, with in Champion you get 4 moves in that space of time.

This is also the case in other large crowd of mobs dungeons like Frozen Heart and Spellplague as well (and Valindra's Tower too). But in dungeons where you cannot catch the mobs in large crowds like that, then HV is the better choices as each individual move in HV will net greater damage, vs 4 moves doing much higher damage in Champion.

So the situation will dictate which one is the better choice depending on where you are.

In most cases there's not enough trash left alive after a full rotation to be concerned about a ~1 second reduction in Sudden Storm's cooldown, especially if your party is also attacking along with you. You don't even have to teleport most of the time unless you are avoiding a huge red splat or are a pure glass cannon build without any defenses or life steal.

Your mileage just varies, I guess. The PvP sets are perfectly usable for PvE content, but I can't buy that they are preferable to HV. Would be interesting if an ACT log proved me wrong somehow, but I'd be surprised.

vorphied

kozi001 wrote: »

Opressor : regen is nerfed by healing deppression.

So its +113power +251rec(rene) vs +251Arp + 454HP(thaum)

Well I think Thaum it is. No wonder that HRs are stealing kills all the time because of their high Arp.

ArP softcaps pretty early on, and HRs have the advantage of an additional ArP % tied to an ability score; I'm not sure that taking ArP on the set is worth it at the expense of both Power and Recovery. Regen is still helpful, by the way, if not as amazing as it was. It also lets you recover rapidly between node fights. I love ++HP, but the Thaum set just doesn't do it for me.

pers3phone

vorphied wrote: »

ArP softcaps pretty early on, and HRs have the advantage of an additional ArP % tied to an ability score; I'm not sure that taking ArP on the set is worth it at the expense of both Power and Recovery. Regen is still helpful, by the way, if not as amazing as it was. It also lets you recover rapidly between node fights. I love ++HP, but the Thaum set just doesn't do it for me.

Thaum for HP/Crit/Arp.

Use Regen rings/Neck/Belt, with Tenacity is possible.

Use Azues or Radiants in Offense slot after you have 2500 ArP or so because diminishing returns.

Fomorian wep (regen)

Sylvan Talisman (HP/Regen)

That's about it. Try not to get hit. Get an emblem, get R10s, legendaries.

Apply to top guild so you can be carried. GG.

xelliz

pointsman wrote: »

I have a full GG set, just sitting in my bank, and I'm wondering if I should even trade it in.

I guess it depends on if Mod3 does depend on doing PVP to make progress with one's character.

You need to trade it now, because I'm sure the NPC will be gone well before Mod 3 drops.

For myself I went Thaum set and I currently use this in PVE as well since I still can't get HV chest to drop.

silverquick

vorphied wrote: »

Your mileage just varies, I guess. The PvP sets are perfectly usable for PvE content, but I can't buy that they are preferable to HV. Would be interesting if an ACT log proved me wrong somehow, but I'd be surprised.

Well you'd have to use them yourself in practical circumstances to find that out.

I was let in on the little secret of Champion armor not too long ago and picked up a set as I'd been doing GG related activites for some time. I gave it a run to see what if it was true and it was. And it's situational specifically in those kinds of shoes I named above (Like Pirate King, Frozen Heart, Valindra's Tower, Spellplague, etc). And has to be utilized with specific technique combos and in large crowd situations. This armor allows you to be incredibly aggressive with your techniques.

And I still wear my HV too, its not like HV suddenly became obsolete, because in overall shoes its more flexible for any playstyle needed.

Think of it like this...

Champion is like Battle Mage gear, when you are going to be in the thick of things right up by the melees, in large crowds where you can't afford to wait on timers, this is the armor that will be best. And it's very situational. No you don't absolutely need them, but when they shine, they really shine in PvE and yes, even outshines HV.

It allows you to do things you never would have dreamed of doing in HV.

hefisdo

I got the Oppressor Grim. Can't imagine myself playing w/o Power and Recovery.

By the way, playing with HV makes you a Glass Cannon. You can use it and it'll be nice, but your group must know it and try to "defend" you.

Ah, and I didn't trade my GG gear for the Grim. It's not worth in my opinion, GG stats are nice, I don't know if I will use it in the future, but I feel like doing it is not the right thing.