He has a point. Dragonborn inhabit an entire continent. That makes them common. It does not, however, make them common in the northern Sword Coast.
That said, I do want dragonborn in the game. I like them a lot. When I read Brimstone Angels, I got the feeling that dragonborn were rare in the area, but not totally unheard of. I mean, just about everyone who met Mehen asked if he was from Tymanther, and pretty much everyone knew that the dragonborn as a race were honorable soldiers.
So, bring on the dragonborn! Maybe with Breath Weapon as an encounter power that can be used in place of one from your class.
And where is the source which says that Dragonborn are not common in Neverwinter? That is why I showed a common encounter in Neverwinter with 2 dragonborn in Safe part of Neverwinter city.
Common is the keyword here.
The logic presented is insubstantial and flawed derived from half-truths. And that is the fact I am trying to tell this person. It seems he has not played any official Neverwinter campaign or that misconception must have been washed off by now. I also linked the 4e game "Heroes of Neverwinter" which rominently features dragonborn in New Neverwinter.
And this person is pointing out inaccuracies this way and refuses to listen to reason. Truth will not change from what I, you or him say here. It behoves a person to find the truth instead of planting their own perception on others by using hollow arguments. The latter only spreads misinformation and has no benefit.
Other sources of Dragonborn in Neverwinter are campaigns by WotC:-
Dungeon 195, page 14.
The beached levanthian campaign (Forgot which issue), Shards of Selune Adventure
Fighting dragonborn is a standard encounter in Neverwinter.
And you are saying they are common in FR and not in Neverwinter? Without any source, without any basis? And even when I have repeatedly politely given him sources, tried to clear his misconceptions he is not ready to see because he is blinded by arrogance or perhaps he is arguing for the sake of argument. Why I am even wasting time searching for sources when the person next to me makes baseless statements without any sources? And instead of being grateful for my hard work calling me out as one in error without even checking the references.
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Andy V already said that Dragonborn are the most favored race among the devs at Cryptic so you never know what will be coming on the horizon *hint* *hint* The Dragonborn will be coming ^.^
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
I will address every misconception raised here for the benefit of community then, without pointing finger at anyone:-
Dragonborn are common in FR but not NW
Mythbuster Proof:-
-Common encounters of Dragonborn in Neverwinter campaign guide inside city.
-Common encounters of Dragonborn in Neverwinter official campaigns by WotC.
- Dragonborn being available as one of the playable races in facebook game "Heroes of Neverwinter" and prominently featured in every screenshot.
Dragonborn are common as adventurers only
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The monster encounters show that they are common as NPC too (plus campaigns with actual NPC, those in tavern, the villains etc.)
Dragonborn are not common in Sword coast.
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The fact that cities like Waterdeep, Amn have dragonborn in official WotC campaigns.
Dragonborn do not worship gods/Bahamut,Tiamat are not FR gods
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The fact that Dragonborn worshipping NPC and PC are available in FR based campaigns. Many NPC of dragonborn usually worship Tiamat or Bahamut. Having less faith is personality, it does not decide whether one worships or not.
If dragonborn are not in Neverember troops that means they are not common.
Mythbuster Proof:-
/facepalm/
- Neverember troops only consist of Mintarn Merceneries. He did not bring his Waterdeep troops to the city. The Mintarn Mercenaries are Human because of that island. It has nothing to do with dragonborn presence in city. All Mintarn Merceneries are outiders.
This covers most of them. For sources, you can check the posts.
Tymanther is not the only background for dragonborn. It can be a dragonborn from anywhere very different from Dragonborn from tymanther. There are varied background for Dragonborns, escaped slave, evil dragonborn etc.
And where is the source which says that Dragonborn are not common in Neverwinter? That is why I showed a common encounter in Neverwinter with 2 dragonborn in Safe part of Neverwinter city.
Common is the keyword here.
From the introduction to the table you are referring to:
"The regent has dispatched his Mintarn forces to combat these threats and also has hired numerous solitary sellswords to sleuth, assassinate, sway, and mislead. The creatures on the encounter table are best presented as Neverember's hired goons. Most of
them hail from Mintarn, but he-or rather, his coin recruits aid from far and wide."(emphasis mine.)
From far and wide, meaning these mercenaries could come from anywhere. Their presence on the chart does not imply they are common to Neverwinter. Also, if you go by that chart Elves don't exist in Neverwinter if you think you can imply commonality by dragonborn being on it, shouldn't you also be able to imply scarcity?
Furthermore, on the chart there is a guard drake. Neverember hired a guard drake?
Other sources of Dragonborn in Neverwinter are campaigns by WotC:-
Dungeon 195, page 14.
The beached levanthian campaign (Forgot which issue), Shards of Selune Adventure
Dragonborn being present in small quantities in various encounters in dungeon may imply some sort of commonality, but it doesn't necessarily. I'm more inclined to follow a novel which I know has been edited specifically for content, and not inferences about rarity based on presence in dungeon magazine, which as you'll see from the above quotation, which I will repeat states that dragonborn are rare outside of the general region of Tymanther, "Curious, she leaned forward. She'd encountered dragonborn a time or two but not often. A century after their sudden arrival in Faerun, they were still a rarity outside Tymanther, Chessenta, and High Imaskar."
And you are saying they are common in FR and not in Neverwinter? Without any source, without any basis? And even when I have repeatedly politely given him sources, tried to clear his misconceptions he is not ready to see because he is blinded by arrogance or perhaps he is arguing for the sake of argument. Why I am even wasting time searching for sources when the person next to me makes baseless statements without any sources? And instead of being grateful for my hard work calling me out as one in error without even checking the references.
They are common in that they occupy a whole country in the world, Tymanther, and they also are extremely common in another(Returned Abeir). That does not imply that they are common everywhere, they are not, as shown by the novel quotation above, does that make them unheard of? Of course not, but that was never the point I was making in this thread, which if you read my initial post you would be able to see clearly.
P.S. I'm not responding to your mythbusters post as it consists of mostly strawmen and wrong information.
....
P.S. I'm not responding to your mythbusters post as it consists of mostly strawmen and wrong information.
You are again calling WotC official campaigns strawman argument. However that call in itself is a fallacy as WotC is the creator of FR. FR is not a true world somewhere.
If you think you know FR more than WotC who create own and forge the fantasy realms, you are making a grave error.
I would again call upon you to at least play some official campaigns in Neverwinter before accusing others of making assumptions.
You are again calling WotC official campaigns strawman argument. However that call in itself is a fallacy as WotC is the creator of FR. FR is not a true world somewhere.
If you think you know FR more than WotC who create own and forge the fantasy realms, you are making a grave error.
I would again call upon you to at least play some official campaigns in Neverwinter before accusing others of making assumptions.
No, I'm saying you attacking arguments I didn't make creating strawmen. Beyond that, your answers to the "myths" aren't proof of anything. The mere presence of something does not imply commonality just like the absence of something doesn't imply rarity, otherwise we could make the argument that there are no elves in Neverwinter based on that chart, afterall they aren't on Neverember's merc list. Also drakes are as common as half-orcs and there are no tieflings in NW as well. Oh and based on the campaigns wererats are 5 times as common as dragonborn and every other player race besides humans.
I also find it beyond amusing that you continue to cling to this notion that dragonborn worship Bahamut in great number in the Forgotten Realms despite being shown direct quotations that state otherwise.
No, I'm saying you attacking arguments I didn't make creating strawmen.
Very common? I certainly wouldn't say that and neither does the source material. The presence of a few people of a given race doesn't make them common or very common. So while the game description that they are many Tieflings in Neverwinter is accurate(Tieflings are generally more numerous in Forgotten Realms than other settings), the same doesn't hold true for Dragonborn or Drow, despite a group of drow operating in the city, and the occasional dragonborn being present. And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)
You said only few dragonborn exist in the city. I showed you that there are common encounters inside the city of dragonborn. Apart from that I gave you a few of the many sources where Neverwinter is discussed and in all the campaigns dragonborn feature prominently both as NPC and PC.
And you still say it is 'few' and are unable to accept that dragonborn is common in Neverwinter despite the evidence to the contrary.
Secondly, you dismiss anything I present as non-canon without any proof. If I go by your own logic, nothing in FR:CG or FR:PHB holds true for Neverwinter. Or similarly, nothing in core books holds true for forgotten realms.
That is not how it goes. The priority to read source material goes -> Campaign setting, realm setting and then core setting. That is why it is released in that order. The core setting is base and the new book replaces all of the base core material. Hence anything not contradicting the material in high priority tier is taken for the campaigns. Just as it works for Arkhosia objection you called upon as inaccurate. When there is something not fitting in (contradictory) to previosly published material, it is always mentioned somewhere in new material. Arkhosia is also not mentioned once again as it is picked from previously published material and campaigns use it as it is.
Thirdly you are calling drow and dragonborn as rare races even when FR:CG says it is common. Also nowhere in NW:CG does it say that dragonborn or drow are rare.
Evidence to your false perception in the form of official content also exists.
There is a complete flow of logic in canonical sense, and examples of application of that thought process in the form of official campaigns staring in front of your eyes yet you stick to your own perception.
I have also shown that dragonborn are not rare as common encounter specified in NW:CG exist.
I haven't pulled anything from the hat, I have given you alternate sources each time you objected to previous source. You yourself are not measuring up to your own scales. You yourself have yet to specify any evidence from NW:CG to support your argument that dragonborn are rare.
If they are, why it is not specified in NW:CG as it is in direct contradiction of FR:CG? Why dragonborn are shown in common encounters? Why in official campaigns are dragonborn shown as common NPC, even characters inside taverns? Why are dragonborn shown as obvious choice of race in Neverwnter? Why the choice of Neverwinter background not restricted to non-dragonborn, for they cannot be then from Neverwinter background as a settler?
Now you can again shift your argument by saying, no they are not rare but they are not common - they are in between. Or pull something else out of your hat. But the questions will still remain as they are contradictions in your own argument. Just like dragonborn are common, drow are common too. But I am in interested in how far you will go to promote your own perception instead of logic.
You said only few dragonborn exist in the city. I showed you that there are common encounters inside the city of dragonborn. Apart from that I gave you a few of the many sources where Neverwinter is discussed and in all the campaigns dragonborn feature prominently both as NPC and PC.
The fallacy here is that you've assumed that the encounters represented int he NCG are common. The book makes no such representation, and in fact to view them as such would stretch credibility. Also present on the chart are guard drake, gnome illusionist, and gnome assassin. To therefore view this chart as common encounters and therefore representing a lot of dragonborn in Neverember's command would also imply that Neverember employ a lot of gnome assassins, gnome illusionists, and guard drakes. I find that hard to believe(at least with the first two.) Instead what I find more likely is that the list is of suggested encounter of creatures that Neverember could potentially employ while making no representation of their commonality within Neverwinter.
As far as the campaigns in Dungeon are concerned. Those represent one person or a group of people. The dragonborn bard represented in the Selune adventure in Dungeon 193 is just that one dragonborn, as are the two fighters, just two fighters, they don't represent anything more than the fact that in a published adventure there are some dragonborn.
And you still say it is 'few' and are unable to accept that dragonborn is common in Neverwinter despite the evidence to the contrary.
Only a few dragonborn are presented in the source material. There's never any mention of the number of dragonborn in the city(like some sourcebooks provide) so the only information we have is that they exist, and its up to us to determine if they're rare or common. I have said, I don't believe the information presented is enough to say they are common in Neverwinter, you have said you think it is. I have also presented a source that says dragonborn are rare outside of a specific area. Which is more definitive than anything presented in the Neverwinter Campaign Guide.
Secondly, you dismiss anything I present as non-canon without any proof. If I go by your own logic, nothing in FR:CG or FR:PHB holds true for Neverwinter. Or similarly, nothing in core books holds true for forgotten realms.
the FRCG and the FRPG have the Forgotten Realms brand. Anything with the Forgotten Realms brand is cannon to anything else in the Forgotten Realms brand, provided that they don't contradict, if they contradict each other then we are at a loss and there is no resolution. Everything with regard to lore in the core rulebooks is not Forgotten Realms specific and is therefore always trumped by Forgotten Realms specific material, either implicitly or explicitly. Much of the history of dragonborns has been established in the Forgotten Realms 4th edition books, therefore looking to core material for history is only good in so far as it doesn't contradict what is shown within those books.
That is not how it goes. The priority to read source material goes -> Campaign setting, realm setting and then core setting. That is why it is released in that order. The core setting is base and the new book replaces all of the base core material. Hence anything not contradicting the material in high priority tier is taken for the campaigns. Just as it works for Arkhosia objection you called upon as inaccurate. When there is something not fitting in (contradictory) to previosly published material, it is always mentioned somewhere in new material. Arkhosia is also not mentioned once again as it is picked from previously published material and campaigns use it as it is.
This is mostly true, but I would say that the contradiction does not have to be explicit. It can be implicit. But if you see anything in a Forgotten Realms source than nothing, even things released after, that are core count for that particular issue.
Thirdly you are calling drow and dragonborn as rare races even when FR:CG says it is common. Also nowhere in NW:CG does it say that dragonborn or drow are rare.
Evidence to your false perception in the form of official content also exists.
Drow are not listed as common races in the FRPG, they are listed as new races before the common ones. I draw your addition to this quotation from Dragon #367:
"Even those folks who know of the drow (say one in twenty), the extent of their knowledge is largely limited to an understanding that they are a subterranean people who emerge to raid the surface for slaves, and they have little knowledge of Lolth’s influence over them."
Would a common race be only known to 5% of the population?
It goes on to say this,
"Again, the wiser and more powerful members of these populations would know more, but generally speaking, drow are an elusive, rarely seen, and widely misunderstood people that exist as a distant and shadowy threat."
Which is very much how the Neverwinter Campaign Guide presents the drow mercs spy network of Bregan D'aerthe, which, while present as a faction, is not an immense group big enough to be called common in Neverwinter.
"Battles with this shifty group of mercenaries should be rare. The Bregan D'aerthe drow fight on their own terms, or they can't be found."
This is in addition to the drow present in Gauntlgrym, although that doesn't make them common, it just means they are an evil force to fight in the game.
Also I never said that dragonborn are rare in Forgotten Realms, what I did say is that they are not common in the part of the world where Neverwinter takes place, which is a stance I hold to and is backed up by a specific quotation from a 4E FR Novel.
There is a complete flow of logic in canonical sense, and examples of application of that thought process in the form of official campaigns staring in front of your eyes yet you stick to your own perception.
I have also shown that dragonborn are not rare as common encounter specified in NW:CG exist.
Again, the encounters in the NWCG are never listed as common, they are simply listed as encounters. You are assuming they are common because they're in a chart, but that's not necessarily true, see my gnome assassin analysis above. Beyond that i'm not really sure what to make of this statement by you.
I haven't pulled anything from the hat, I have given you alternate sources each time you objected to previous source. You yourself are not measuring up to your own scales. You yourself have yet to specify any evidence from NW:CG to support your argument that dragonborn are rare.
That is true, I have provided nothing from the NWCG that says that they are rare, but you have not presented anything from the NWCG that says that they are common. What you have done is made the assumption that their presence on a chart makes them common, but my response to that is to again cite to the gnome assassin, if dragonborn are common in NW because of the chart than gnome assassins are common in NW.
If they are, why it is not specified in NW:CG as it is in direct contradiction of FR:CG? Why dragonborn are shown in common encounters? Why in official campaigns are dragonborn shown as common NPC, even characters inside taverns? Why are dragonborn shown as obvious choice of race in Neverwnter? Why the choice of Neverwinter background not restricted to non-dragonborn, for they cannot be then from Neverwinter background as a settler?
Once again, the word common is never used. Only encounters. In the official Dungeon campaigns they are not shown as common NPCs they are shown as NPCs who exist in that particular quest. That is like saying that wererats are common because they exist in one of the quests, it doesn't follow, the presence of a creature in a few different quests doesn't mean that creature is common, it just means that the authors of those quests wanted to highlight those creatures.
Why the choice of Neverwinter background not restricted to non-dragonborn, for they cannot be then from Neverwinter background as a settler?
Why are NW backgrounds not restricted to non-goliaths? Why are not they not restricted to non-shifters? The answer is that just because something is not explicitly disallowed doesn't make it common or rare, it just makes it not mentioned.
Now you can again shift your argument by saying, no they are not rare but they are not common - they are in between. Or pull something else out of your hat. But the questions will still remain as they are contradictions in your own argument. Just like dragonborn are common, drow are common too. But I am in interested in how far you will go to promote your own perception instead of logic.
They are not common, they are not exceedingly rare, they are occasional. Just as drow are occasional in Neverwinter. There's a presence but not an overwhelming one, which, again, was my whole point, most people if given the option would imo pick one of the three between tiefling, dragonborn, and drow, and that doesn't represent what Neverwinter actually looks like.
bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
If its in the campaign books it's fact. Source books from WotC trump all other sources. And since when are not Tiamat/Bahamut FR gods? Tiamat has been part of the Realms since nearly the time Ed Greenwood created them, and Bahamut while a more recent part...like since the nineties. Has been a part of it for a while as well.
Comments
And where is the source which says that Dragonborn are not common in Neverwinter? That is why I showed a common encounter in Neverwinter with 2 dragonborn in Safe part of Neverwinter city.
Common is the keyword here.
The logic presented is insubstantial and flawed derived from half-truths. And that is the fact I am trying to tell this person. It seems he has not played any official Neverwinter campaign or that misconception must have been washed off by now. I also linked the 4e game "Heroes of Neverwinter" which rominently features dragonborn in New Neverwinter.
And this person is pointing out inaccuracies this way and refuses to listen to reason. Truth will not change from what I, you or him say here. It behoves a person to find the truth instead of planting their own perception on others by using hollow arguments. The latter only spreads misinformation and has no benefit.
Other sources of Dragonborn in Neverwinter are campaigns by WotC:-
Dungeon 195, page 14.
The beached levanthian campaign (Forgot which issue), Shards of Selune Adventure
Fighting dragonborn is a standard encounter in Neverwinter.
And you are saying they are common in FR and not in Neverwinter? Without any source, without any basis? And even when I have repeatedly politely given him sources, tried to clear his misconceptions he is not ready to see because he is blinded by arrogance or perhaps he is arguing for the sake of argument. Why I am even wasting time searching for sources when the person next to me makes baseless statements without any sources? And instead of being grateful for my hard work calling me out as one in error without even checking the references.
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Dragonborn are common in FR but not NW
Mythbuster Proof:-
-Common encounters of Dragonborn in Neverwinter campaign guide inside city.
-Common encounters of Dragonborn in Neverwinter official campaigns by WotC.
- Dragonborn being available as one of the playable races in facebook game "Heroes of Neverwinter" and prominently featured in every screenshot.
Dragonborn are common as adventurers only
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The monster encounters show that they are common as NPC too (plus campaigns with actual NPC, those in tavern, the villains etc.)
Dragonborn are not common in Sword coast.
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The fact that cities like Waterdeep, Amn have dragonborn in official WotC campaigns.
Dragonborn do not worship gods/Bahamut,Tiamat are not FR gods
Mythbuster Proof:-
- The fact that Dragonborn worshipping NPC and PC are available in FR based campaigns. Many NPC of dragonborn usually worship Tiamat or Bahamut. Having less faith is personality, it does not decide whether one worships or not.
If dragonborn are not in Neverember troops that means they are not common.
Mythbuster Proof:-
/facepalm/
- Neverember troops only consist of Mintarn Merceneries. He did not bring his Waterdeep troops to the city. The Mintarn Mercenaries are Human because of that island. It has nothing to do with dragonborn presence in city. All Mintarn Merceneries are outiders.
This covers most of them. For sources, you can check the posts.
Tymanther is not the only background for dragonborn. It can be a dragonborn from anywhere very different from Dragonborn from tymanther. There are varied background for Dragonborns, escaped slave, evil dragonborn etc.
From the introduction to the table you are referring to:
"The regent has dispatched his Mintarn forces to combat these threats and also has hired numerous solitary sellswords to sleuth, assassinate, sway, and mislead. The creatures on the encounter table are best presented as Neverember's hired goons. Most of
them hail from Mintarn, but he-or rather, his coin recruits aid from far and wide."(emphasis mine.)
From far and wide, meaning these mercenaries could come from anywhere. Their presence on the chart does not imply they are common to Neverwinter. Also, if you go by that chart Elves don't exist in Neverwinter if you think you can imply commonality by dragonborn being on it, shouldn't you also be able to imply scarcity?
Furthermore, on the chart there is a guard drake. Neverember hired a guard drake?
Dragonborn being present in small quantities in various encounters in dungeon may imply some sort of commonality, but it doesn't necessarily. I'm more inclined to follow a novel which I know has been edited specifically for content, and not inferences about rarity based on presence in dungeon magazine, which as you'll see from the above quotation, which I will repeat states that dragonborn are rare outside of the general region of Tymanther, "Curious, she leaned forward. She'd encountered dragonborn a time or two but not often. A century after their sudden arrival in Faerun, they were still a rarity outside Tymanther, Chessenta, and High Imaskar."
They are common in that they occupy a whole country in the world, Tymanther, and they also are extremely common in another(Returned Abeir). That does not imply that they are common everywhere, they are not, as shown by the novel quotation above, does that make them unheard of? Of course not, but that was never the point I was making in this thread, which if you read my initial post you would be able to see clearly.
P.S. I'm not responding to your mythbusters post as it consists of mostly strawmen and wrong information.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
You are again calling WotC official campaigns strawman argument. However that call in itself is a fallacy as WotC is the creator of FR. FR is not a true world somewhere.
If you think you know FR more than WotC who create own and forge the fantasy realms, you are making a grave error.
I would again call upon you to at least play some official campaigns in Neverwinter before accusing others of making assumptions.
No, I'm saying you attacking arguments I didn't make creating strawmen. Beyond that, your answers to the "myths" aren't proof of anything. The mere presence of something does not imply commonality just like the absence of something doesn't imply rarity, otherwise we could make the argument that there are no elves in Neverwinter based on that chart, afterall they aren't on Neverember's merc list. Also drakes are as common as half-orcs and there are no tieflings in NW as well. Oh and based on the campaigns wererats are 5 times as common as dragonborn and every other player race besides humans.
I also find it beyond amusing that you continue to cling to this notion that dragonborn worship Bahamut in great number in the Forgotten Realms despite being shown direct quotations that state otherwise.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
And you still say it is 'few' and are unable to accept that dragonborn is common in Neverwinter despite the evidence to the contrary.
Secondly, you dismiss anything I present as non-canon without any proof. If I go by your own logic, nothing in FR:CG or FR:PHB holds true for Neverwinter. Or similarly, nothing in core books holds true for forgotten realms.
That is not how it goes. The priority to read source material goes -> Campaign setting, realm setting and then core setting. That is why it is released in that order. The core setting is base and the new book replaces all of the base core material. Hence anything not contradicting the material in high priority tier is taken for the campaigns. Just as it works for Arkhosia objection you called upon as inaccurate. When there is something not fitting in (contradictory) to previosly published material, it is always mentioned somewhere in new material. Arkhosia is also not mentioned once again as it is picked from previously published material and campaigns use it as it is.
Thirdly you are calling drow and dragonborn as rare races even when FR:CG says it is common. Also nowhere in NW:CG does it say that dragonborn or drow are rare.
Evidence to your false perception in the form of official content also exists.
There is a complete flow of logic in canonical sense, and examples of application of that thought process in the form of official campaigns staring in front of your eyes yet you stick to your own perception.
I have also shown that dragonborn are not rare as common encounter specified in NW:CG exist.
I haven't pulled anything from the hat, I have given you alternate sources each time you objected to previous source. You yourself are not measuring up to your own scales. You yourself have yet to specify any evidence from NW:CG to support your argument that dragonborn are rare.
If they are, why it is not specified in NW:CG as it is in direct contradiction of FR:CG? Why dragonborn are shown in common encounters? Why in official campaigns are dragonborn shown as common NPC, even characters inside taverns? Why are dragonborn shown as obvious choice of race in Neverwnter? Why the choice of Neverwinter background not restricted to non-dragonborn, for they cannot be then from Neverwinter background as a settler?
Now you can again shift your argument by saying, no they are not rare but they are not common - they are in between. Or pull something else out of your hat. But the questions will still remain as they are contradictions in your own argument. Just like dragonborn are common, drow are common too. But I am in interested in how far you will go to promote your own perception instead of logic.
The fallacy here is that you've assumed that the encounters represented int he NCG are common. The book makes no such representation, and in fact to view them as such would stretch credibility. Also present on the chart are guard drake, gnome illusionist, and gnome assassin. To therefore view this chart as common encounters and therefore representing a lot of dragonborn in Neverember's command would also imply that Neverember employ a lot of gnome assassins, gnome illusionists, and guard drakes. I find that hard to believe(at least with the first two.) Instead what I find more likely is that the list is of suggested encounter of creatures that Neverember could potentially employ while making no representation of their commonality within Neverwinter.
As far as the campaigns in Dungeon are concerned. Those represent one person or a group of people. The dragonborn bard represented in the Selune adventure in Dungeon 193 is just that one dragonborn, as are the two fighters, just two fighters, they don't represent anything more than the fact that in a published adventure there are some dragonborn.
Only a few dragonborn are presented in the source material. There's never any mention of the number of dragonborn in the city(like some sourcebooks provide) so the only information we have is that they exist, and its up to us to determine if they're rare or common. I have said, I don't believe the information presented is enough to say they are common in Neverwinter, you have said you think it is. I have also presented a source that says dragonborn are rare outside of a specific area. Which is more definitive than anything presented in the Neverwinter Campaign Guide.
the FRCG and the FRPG have the Forgotten Realms brand. Anything with the Forgotten Realms brand is cannon to anything else in the Forgotten Realms brand, provided that they don't contradict, if they contradict each other then we are at a loss and there is no resolution. Everything with regard to lore in the core rulebooks is not Forgotten Realms specific and is therefore always trumped by Forgotten Realms specific material, either implicitly or explicitly. Much of the history of dragonborns has been established in the Forgotten Realms 4th edition books, therefore looking to core material for history is only good in so far as it doesn't contradict what is shown within those books.
This is mostly true, but I would say that the contradiction does not have to be explicit. It can be implicit. But if you see anything in a Forgotten Realms source than nothing, even things released after, that are core count for that particular issue.
Drow are not listed as common races in the FRPG, they are listed as new races before the common ones. I draw your addition to this quotation from Dragon #367:
"Even those folks who know of the drow (say one in twenty), the extent of their knowledge is largely limited to an understanding that they are a subterranean people who emerge to raid the surface for slaves, and they have little knowledge of Lolth’s influence over them."
Would a common race be only known to 5% of the population?
It goes on to say this,
"Again, the wiser and more powerful members of these populations would know more, but generally speaking, drow are an elusive, rarely seen, and widely misunderstood people that exist as a distant and shadowy threat."
Which is very much how the Neverwinter Campaign Guide presents the drow mercs spy network of Bregan D'aerthe, which, while present as a faction, is not an immense group big enough to be called common in Neverwinter.
"Battles with this shifty group of mercenaries should be rare. The Bregan D'aerthe drow fight on their own terms, or they can't be found."
This is in addition to the drow present in Gauntlgrym, although that doesn't make them common, it just means they are an evil force to fight in the game.
Also I never said that dragonborn are rare in Forgotten Realms, what I did say is that they are not common in the part of the world where Neverwinter takes place, which is a stance I hold to and is backed up by a specific quotation from a 4E FR Novel.
Again, the encounters in the NWCG are never listed as common, they are simply listed as encounters. You are assuming they are common because they're in a chart, but that's not necessarily true, see my gnome assassin analysis above. Beyond that i'm not really sure what to make of this statement by you.
That is true, I have provided nothing from the NWCG that says that they are rare, but you have not presented anything from the NWCG that says that they are common. What you have done is made the assumption that their presence on a chart makes them common, but my response to that is to again cite to the gnome assassin, if dragonborn are common in NW because of the chart than gnome assassins are common in NW.
Once again, the word common is never used. Only encounters. In the official Dungeon campaigns they are not shown as common NPCs they are shown as NPCs who exist in that particular quest. That is like saying that wererats are common because they exist in one of the quests, it doesn't follow, the presence of a creature in a few different quests doesn't mean that creature is common, it just means that the authors of those quests wanted to highlight those creatures.
Why are NW backgrounds not restricted to non-goliaths? Why are not they not restricted to non-shifters? The answer is that just because something is not explicitly disallowed doesn't make it common or rare, it just makes it not mentioned.
They are not common, they are not exceedingly rare, they are occasional. Just as drow are occasional in Neverwinter. There's a presence but not an overwhelming one, which, again, was my whole point, most people if given the option would imo pick one of the three between tiefling, dragonborn, and drow, and that doesn't represent what Neverwinter actually looks like.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
but genasi and DB yes please
You know, i'm getting kind of irritated by your condescending personal attacks. Stop being a jerk.