yeah but when? i wish they put dragonborn in basic races and not so much human-elf like races and now when come will be premium race or lockbox race ,why we need 3 kind of elf races?they all look the same to me
Elves look pretty similar, but I think it helps save costs on race design, plus they are a very standard and popular race to people not so familiar with DnD. I think patience is going to be a key but eventually we will see some really cool stuff come to the game. I am dieing to play a bard myself.
How rare are Gnomes in 4th ED that a dragon race is more likely to come before it?
Gnomes are not exceedingly rare in Forgotten Realms but they are not identified as one of the common races in the 4th edition Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms instead being identified as a member of the "supporting cast." But then again, orcs or half-orcs, are also members of this "supporting cast" and the latter is a release race.
As for Dragonborn, they are mostly not found in the area where Neverwinter takes place, having returned to Toril from the twin world Abeir as a result of the spellplague. Most of the Dragonborn on Abeir-Toril live in a place called Tymanther, which is on the other side of Faerun compared to where the game takes place.
Shifters are more the province of Eberron though they ARE a playable race in 4th edition via the 4th edition monster manual.
I doubt they will release Dragonborn mainly because they may look similar to Tieflings and fill the same "odd creature" niche.
The lycans (were-wolf, were-rat and were-serpent) are quite common in FR. Infact the most popular ones are divided into our types:- Selunite, Silvanus and Malar shapeshifters common in sword coast. (And Sseth+Zehir's were-serpent shapeshifters not common in sword coast).
I did a thread on them one "Know your lore: Lycanthropy" You can refer it for more details.
Also, there are shifters in FR (apart from above, the ones like in star trek) and they live undetected in cities.
Lastly, common NPC and common PC are two different things. Dragonborn may not be common in NW city as NPCs but they are very common as PC in all of faerun as they like to adventure a lot, and they like to kill dragons.
Refer to official material before assuming what you think should be common or not.
Gnomes are not exceedingly rare in Forgotten Realms but they are not identified as one of the common races in the 4th edition Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms instead being identified as a member of the "supporting cast." But then again, orcs or half-orcs, are also members of this "supporting cast" and the latter is a release race.
As for Dragonborn, they are mostly not found in the area where Neverwinter takes place, having returned to Toril from the twin world Abeir as a result of the spellplague. Most of the Dragonborn on Abeir-Toril live in a place called Tymanther, which is on the other side of Faerun compared to where the game takes place.
bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
See that's the amazing things about adventurers. They tend to travel. A lot. And Dragonborn should be in the game due to the fact their a core PhB race.
See that's the amazing things about adventurers. They tend to travel. A lot. And Dragonborn should be in the game due to the fact their a core PhB race.
The ultimate problem is that rare often becomes common in an MMO. Adventures travel a lot, tis true, but the vast majority of a race isn't made up of adventures(even races like Dragonborn). This is the same problem you'd run into with drow if they were a release race, if 75% of the players are a race that is rare in a given area because those races are cool, it has a detrimental effect on the lore because most of what you see is PCs.
bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Though in the case of Neverwinter there's an active call for Adventurers to come to the city in order to help with the restoration. Hence the large number of them within the City.
Though in the case of Neverwinter there's an active call for Adventurers to come to the city in order to help with the restoration. Hence the large number of them within the City.
Which makes sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for 75% of the adventures in the city to be Dragonborn, Drow, and Tieflings, which is most likely what would occur if all three of those races were in at launch.
Just because everyone rolled Blood Elves on Horde when their starting zone cinematic said they were rare does not mean we cannot have a logical reason for the vast amount of $199 renegade Drow and Clerics choosing not to take any weapons with them.
P.S. Yes I know the cleric from Plane Scape did not use a weapon she used her claws.
Those who have played official 4e adventures know that dragonborn, tiefling and even drow are very common in Neverwinter. A certain dragonborn came from Waterdeep specifically to deal with devil problem.
Dragonborn are very willingly hired in many adventurer parties. They have Tymanther - a whole city to themselves. However, suspiciousness of dragonborn arise not because of who they are but their recent arrival (100 years) compared to other races. Their honorable ways have already earned the trust of many.
Secondly, the Forgotten realms is very alignment friendly. So those who worship Bahamut (almost all dragonborn) are always welcome by the Tormite (and by extension Tyr's) clergy. Hence anyone who is a dragonborn adventurer is sure to come to any city which is famous.
If there is no Dragonborn in your city, it means the reputation of your city is very low. A big city like Waterdeep, Amn and Baldur's gate has a large population of dragonborns - not only in adventuring parties but as those who give missions and adventures.
NW is not that popular compared to these cities, but still ok in popularity. So it should have good population of dragonborn.
However villages like Connyberry etc should not have any dragonborn as these are useless ruins in their eyes (unless a chromatic dragon attacks it).
~~~
tl;dr
You are wrong in assumption that dragonborn are rare. The population of dragonborn is directly proportional to the prestige of te city. If there is no dragonborn in your city, it means your city is unworthy of being called a city and might as well be a village.
Those who have played official 4e adventures know that dragonborn, tiefling and even drow are very common in Neverwinter. A certain dragonborn came from Waterdeep specifically to deal with devil problem.
Very common? I certainly wouldn't say that and neither does the source material. The presence of a few people of a given race doesn't make them common or very common. So while the game description that they are many Tieflings in Neverwinter is accurate(Tieflings are generally more numerous in Forgotten Realms than other settings), the same doesn't hold true for Dragonborn or Drow, despite a group of drow operating in the city, and the occasional dragonborn being present. And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)
Dragonborn are very willingly hired in many adventurer parties. They have Tymanther - a whole city to themselves. However, suspiciousness of dragonborn arise not because of who they are but their recent arrival (100 years) compared to other races. Their honorable ways have already earned the trust of many.
Tymanther is a kingdom, and the fact that they are commonly adventurers doesn't change the fact that Tymanther is across the world from Neverwinter.
Secondly, the Forgotten realms is very alignment friendly. So those who worship Bahamut (almost all dragonborn) are always welcome by the Tormite (and by extension Tyr's) clergy. Hence anyone who is a dragonborn adventurer is sure to come to any city which is famous.
Again the argument isn't that dragonborn are unwelcome or that they aren't good adventures, the argument is that they are not commonly found in the part of the world that Neverwinter is located in.
Also, the dragonborn of the Forgotten Realms do not "almost all" worship Bahamut. I quote from the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide(FRPG):
"Since Abeir was without divine influence, at least in a way that most people of Toril understand, dragonborn regard the gods and their servants with suspicion, for they have ever held themselves accountable for their own actions and never to the expectations of others, especially to some remote god or other."
And again from the 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting:
"Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
If there is no Dragonborn in your city, it means the reputation of your city is very low. A big city like Waterdeep, Amn and Baldur's gate has a large population of dragonborns - not only in adventuring parties but as those who give missions and adventures.
Says where, that's not consistent with what is in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide or Player's Guide, and while the Neverwinter Campaign Guide has dragonborn as part of Neverember's troops, it also has them as an equally large part of the cult of the dragon forces(not the secret sect that hides their beliefs which exists in Tymanther and hides what the Cult of the Dragon is really about) the FRPG says this on their relationship to Dragons,
"The number of dragonborn who remember the times before the migration are minuscule, but nearly every dragonborn living today has a relative who suffered under the dragon despots of Abeir. Chilling tales told around family hearths and the recitations of oral histories in the gallery of the City-Bastion in Djerad Thymar (see page 124) instill in these doughty folk a deep and abiding hatred of all dragonkind. Even though the dragons of Toril had nothing to do with their appalling treatment, dragonborn bear a grudge that burns as hot now as it ever did before. In fact, those who take up a life of dragon-hunting are among some of the most celebrated heroes in Tymanther."
and the cult of the dragon:
"Cult of the Dragon: A secret cell of the Cult of the Dragon prospers in Djerad Thymar. The cult keeps its inmost membership and beliefs secret, but it has a public face called the Abeir Academy that welcomes dragonborn who are down on their luck and looking for a new start. In this way, the cell cultivates potential members."
Yet the Neverwinter Campaign Guide seems to think they'd be in an open Cult of the Dragon...
NW is not that popular compared to these cities, but still ok in popularity. So it should have good population of dragonborn.
However villages like Connyberry etc should not have any dragonborn as these are useless ruins in their eyes (unless a chromatic dragon attacks it).
Again, the argument isn't that dragonborn don't exist, the argument is that they should not represent collectively with drow and tiefling the majority of Neverwinter's adventuring community.
~~~
tl;dr
You are wrong in assumption that dragonborn are rare. The population of dragonborn is directly proportional to the prestige of te city. If there is no dragonborn in your city, it means your city is unworthy of being called a city and might as well be a village.
Again, show me anywhere in the source material where that's stated. And again, I did not say that dragonborn do not exist in Neverwinter, I said that they are not common, which everything I've seen indicates to be the case.
Very common? I certainly wouldn't say that and neither does the source material. ... the same doesn't hold true for Dragonborn or Drow, despite a group of drow operating in the city, and the occasional dragonborn being present. It does. Check PHB1 and FRCG and FRPHB and NWCG and PHB:Dragonborn
You can also check a few dragon magzines for details. Dungeons magazines has a few adventures which specify dragonborn specifically in cities like Waterdeep, Neverwinter etc.
Tieflings are more visible in Neverwinter due to presence of Asmadai cult. It does not have much to do with it being common. They are as common as drow and dragonborn
Tymanther is a kingdom, and the fact that they are commonly adventurers doesn't change the fact that Tymanther is across the world from Neverwinter. Not "across the world". It is near Sea of Fallen Stars on Faerun Mainland itself - less than twice the distance of dales from Neverwinter, closer if you travel by sea.
Again the argument isn't that dragonborn are unwelcome or that they aren't good adventures, the argument is that they are not commonly found in the part of the world that Neverwinter is located in. Check PHB:Dragonborn. It explains how they are very commonplace in almost all the urban cities.
Also, the dragonborn of the Forgotten Realms do not "almost all" worship Bahamut. I quote from the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide(FRPG):
"Since Abeir was without divine influence, at least in a way that most people of Toril understand, dragonborn regard the gods and their servants with suspicion, for they have ever held themselves accountable for their own actions and never to the expectations of others, especially to some remote god or other." Yes, just like Tieflings. It does not mean they do not worship Bahamut - just that they do not always trust other dieties blindly. However Bahamut is an exception to above as he is the great metallic dragon. You can brush up on this lore more by reading Dragonomocon:Part 1 and 2.
Notice that I did not say they worship other dieties for that one reason. Also evil dragonborn are very staunch followers of Tiamat. However it is not advisable to play as such a character in normal campaigns. Hence I said "almost all orship Bahamut".
Says where, that's not consistent with what is in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide or Player's Guide, and while the Neverwinter Campaign Guide has dragonborn as part of Neverember's troops, it also has them as an equally large part of the cult of the dragon forces, which is ridiculous when you consider that the dragonborn hate dragons since they were repressed by them on Abeir. Hell, the FRPG says this,
"The number of dragonborn who remember the times before the migration are minuscule, but nearly every dragonborn living today has a relative who suffered under the dragon despots of Abeir. Chilling tales told around family hearths and the recitations of oral histories in the gallery of the City-Bastion in Djerad Thymar (see page 124) instill in these doughty folk a deep and abiding hatred of all dragonkind. Even though the dragons of Toril had nothing to do with their appalling treatment, dragonborn bear a grudge that burns as hot now as it ever did before. In fact, those who take up a life of dragon-hunting are among some of the most celebrated heroes in Tymanther."
Yet the Neverwinter Campaign Guide seems to think they'd be in the Cult of the Dragon... You seriously need to brush up your knowledge about Chromatic and Metallic dragons and dragonborn themselves. That is all I can say here. What you are saying is half knowledge and half noledge, just like half-truth is worse than no knowledge.
Dragonborn hate chromatic dragons, specifically the red dragons. Silver dragons also hate red dragons. If red dragon, silver dragon and dragonborn enter a bar, the dragonborn and silver dragon will quickly group up and kill the red dragon and then cook it for meal.
Sources:
PHB1, PHB:Dragonborn, Draconomicon 1 and 2, a few of FR novels etc. You can also check up on my threads in sig - 4e Intro and dieties for more info on Tiamat, Bahamut, Dragonborn etc.
Again, the argument isn't that dragonborn don't exist, the argument is that they should not represent collectively with drow and tiefling the majority of Neverwinter's adventuring community. Source FR:CG, NW:CG
Again, show me anywhere in the source material where that's stated. And again, I did not say that dragonborn do not exist in Neverwinter, I said that they are not common, which everything I've seen indicates to be the case. Please check on the sources listed. Additionally, check dragon and dungeon magzines for a better grasp of what dragonborn are and they spread in realms after the merge of Abier and Toril.
I don't want to get into argument but I pointed out inaccuracies.
Also, you are mixing your own perceptions with facts. Try to look back to the sources listed above or you can check my 4e Intro for a brief summary.
It does. Check PHB1 and FRCG and FRPHB and NWCG and PHB:Dragonborn
You can also check a few dragon magzines for details. Dungeons magazines has a few adventures which specify dragonborn specifically in cities like Waterdeep, Neverwinter etc.
The PHB and Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn are not Forgotten Realms specific sources. I've quoted material from the FRCG, FRPG and NCG which are. Dungeon Magazine adventures, while perhaps official, are not on the same level as the three official released sourcebooks imo. But even if you believe they are, the presence of a specific number of dragonborn adventures or creatures in those adventures does not a common race in a region make.
Tieflings are more visible in Neverwinter due to presence of Asmadai cult. It does not have much to do with it being common. They are as common as drow and dragonborn
No, they are more common, as expressed by the FRCG, and FRPG and more spread out through the world.
Not "across the world". It is near Sea of Fallen Stars on Faerun Mainland itself - less than twice the distance of dales from Neverwinter, closer if you travel by sea.
Its across Faerun, since 95% of the Forgotten Realms game world consists of adventures on Faerun, I figured it was okay to say world. Yes, its not completely across Faerun, its true, but there are numerous lands closer to Neverwinter than Thymanther. Among them, The Dragon Coast, Amn, Cormyr, Tethyr, Calimshan, Sembia, the Dalelands, the Vast, Aglarond, Impultur, Narfell, Turmish, Chessenta, Vilhon Wilds, and Akanul.
Yes, just like Tieflings. It does not mean they do not worship Bahamut - just that they do not always trust other dieties blindly. However Bahamut is an exception to above as he is the great metallic dragon. You can brush up on this lore more by reading Dragonomocon:Part 1 and 2.
Both not Forgotten Realms sources. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this, D&D has both generic books, Draconomicon, Players Handbook Races: Dragonborn, Player's Handbook 1 and setting specific books, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Neverwinter Campaign Guide, when the two sets of sources contradict on lore, the setting specific books always win.
Dragonborn in Forgotten Realms question the very idea that there are good dragons in the first place. I quote again from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting,
""Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
the worship of Bahamut is rare, and ridiculed by Dragonborn on Toril. I don't know how much clearer it could be.
Notice that I did not say they worship other dieties for that one reason. Also evil dragonborn are very staunch followers of Tiamat. However it is not advisable to play as such a character in normal campaigns. Hence I said "almost all orship Bahamut".
I cannot speak to evil dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms because I do not see anything in the Forgotten Realms source material that discusses them(although it may exist.) I very much highly doubt that they worship Tiamat, however, since I doubt they'd suddenly become different in their view of deities from their good counterparts.
You seriously need to brush up your knowledge about Chromatic and Metallic dragons and dragonborn themselves. That is all I can say here. What you are saying is half knowledge and half noledge, just like half-truth is worse than no knowledge.
No, what I am saying is setting specific lore, which is inconsistent with non-setting specific lore, and as I already said, setting specific lore always wins when talking about a game set in that setting.
Dragonborn hate chromatic dragons, specifically the red dragons. Silver dragons also hate red dragons. If red dragon, silver dragon and dragonborn enter a bar, the dragonborn and silver dragon will quickly group up and kill the red dragon and then cook it for meal.
The idea that dragons could be good, is again, foreign to most Dragonborn, so I fail to see how this scenario matters.
Sources:
PHB1, PHB:Dragonborn, Draconomicon 1 and 2, a few of FR novels etc. You can also check up on my threads in sig - 4e Intro and dieties for more info on Tiamat, Bahamut, Dragonborn etc.
The only sources that matter to this discussion are the FR Novels and what I've used, because again, the other books are not talking specifically about Forgotten Realms dragonborn, which have a completely different origin and game outlook that the dragonborn presented in the core supplements.
Please check on the sources listed. Additionally, check dragon and dungeon magzines for a better grasp of what dragonborn are and they spread in realms after the merge of Abier and Toril.
The only article in dragon and dungeon that would potentially matter would be those that are specific to the Forgotten Realms, which there are none specifically on dragonborn. Potentially other articles on dragonborn have information specific to the Forgotten Realms but I would have to look them up individually.
Also, you are mixing your own perceptions with facts. Try to look back to the sources listed above or you can check my 4e Intro for a brief summary.
Your 4E intro on dragonborn is mostly accurate, but what you are arguing here strays far away from what is true in the Forgotten Realms and goes completely into things that are not true in the Forgotten Realms and directly contradict what is true in the Forgotten Realms based on the official Forgotten Realms material on dragonborn.
*sigh*
You are now arguing for the sake of arguing. If you want me to personally point out the inaccuracies instead of correcting them yourself, fine.
Inaccuracy 1:- Dragonborn are not common race.
Fact:- Check my 4e Intro thread which takes the quote directly from NWCG:-
Common Races of Forgotten Realms:
Drow, Dragonborn, dwarves, eladrin, elves, Genasi, half-elves, half-lings, humans and tieflings
These are the common classes you can find in most cities in forgotten realms. They are all common. More will be explained later.
Rare races, supporting cast of forgotten realms:
Gnomes, Goblins, Lycanthropes and Shifters, Half-Orcs and Orcs, Devas, Goliaths and Shade.
These races are very rare in the realms and you may not encounter them in most adventuring parties.
Rest of the races like kobolds, bugbears, bladelings etc. are rarest of rare as a player character.
Did you read what races up there are in common? Point to note is that it is Neverwinter Campaign Guide; not FR CG or core(greyhawk) CG.
Inaccuracy 2:- Dragonborn do not worship Bahamut.
Fact:- As I pointed out before, the fact that they do not lay trust on dieties does not apply to Bahamut and Tiamat. These two dragon gods are worshipped by Dragonborn regardless just like Asmodeus is worshipped by Tieflings.
Inaccuracy 3:-...
I can point more, but I don't want to be seem as bashing you. I can see you have read a lot which is good. However as I stressed - it is half the knowledge. You need to research it more and in time you will realize the complete picture. PHB:Dragonborn has some elements that do not apply to NW canon but most of them do. A lot of material from Draconomicon also applies even though it talk of greyhawk as base or core.
I have outlined some differences in deities thread while discussing Bahamut and Tiamat. There was a recent novel about Tiamat hatching her eggs and stuff which explains some dragonborn getting corrupted and working for Tiamat over time. It also explains what king killer star did and the fact that the enchantment placed on it has been removed. A lot of things specific to Neverwinter.
~~~~
Your knowledge is very incomplete. Just reading a few lines from source material does not impart complete knowledge. You should read more and discuss it more with others.
Although it is true that core books may not apply to NW setting, that is not always the case for every fact. Many things do apply directly.
Inaccuracy 1:- Dragonborn are not common race.
Fact:- Check my 4e Intro thread which takes the quote directly from NWCG:-
Read what I wrote, "And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)"
I acknowledged that the FRPG calls them a "common race" but what I said is that just because the source calls them a "common race" does not make them common in Neverwinter.
And how about this one since you seem to like novels as sources from The Captive Flame, "Curious, she leaned forward. She'd encountered dragonborn a time or two but not often. A century after their sudden arrival in Faerun, they were still a rarity outside Tymanther, Chessenta, and High Imaskar."(emphasis mine).
Inaccuracy 2:- Dragonborn do not worship Bahamut.
Fact:- As I pointed out before, the fact that they do not lay trust on dieties does not apply to Bahamut and Tiamat. These two dragon gods are worshipped by Dragonborn regardless just like Asmodeus is worshipped by Tieflings.
Again, no, and I again, quote from the same source for a third time:
"""Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
Also, "Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre believes that dragonborn are children of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, and not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. As such, members of this group believe that “good” dragons exist, an idea that is met with ridicule and scorn by most dragonborn."
"Roleplaying Tips: You are a rebel, rejecting the prevailing orthodoxy of your race for a new faith. You
strive to uphold the precepts of your deity and convert others to his church. Though it might take some time, you are confident that the worship of Bahamut will spread throughout the dragonborn race. You avoid overt displays of faith when wandering Djerad Thymar."
The idea of a good dragon is alien and met with ridicule and you want the worship of Bahamut to spread throughout the dragonborn race, which implies the dragonborn race does not worship Bahamut already in large degree. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.
I can point more, but I don't want to be seem as bashing you. I can see you have read a lot which is good. However as I stressed - it is half the knowledge. You need to research it more and in time you will realize the complete picture. PHB:Dragonborn has some elements that do not apply to NW canon but most of them do. A lot of material from Draconomicon also applies even though it talk of greyhawk as base or core.
If its anything like you're inaccuracies 1 and 2, the rest won't be inaccuracies at all, just things you're pulling from non-FR sources and trying to apply to FR even though the FR sources contradict. Again, Player's Handbook: Dragonborn is not a Forgotten Realms source and most of the things in it DO NOT APPLY TO NEVERWINTER AS THEY CONTRADICT WHAT IS STATED IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS SOURCES.
I have outlined some differences in deities thread while discussing Bahamut and Tiamat. There was a recent novel about Tiamat hatching her eggs and stuff which explains some dragonborn getting corrupted and working for Tiamat over time. It also explains what king killer star did and the fact that the enchantment placed on it has been removed. A lot of things specific to Neverwinter.
~~~~
There was a dragonborn in a recent novel that worshipped Tiamat, she infiltrated guess which group? The Platinum Cadre, the group of dragonborn that follows Bahamut and is shunned by much of dragonborn kind.
Your knowledge is very incomplete. Just reading a few lines from source material does not impart complete knowledge. You should read more and discuss it more with others.
It imparts knowledge on the subject that is specifically addressed, which run completely counter to your assertions from less world specific sources.
Although it is true that core books may not apply to NW setting, that is not always the case for every fact. Many things do apply directly.
If it contradicts whats in the Forgotten Realms source material it doesn't apply, most of things you've stated that come from sources such as the Draconomicon and Player's Handbook: Dragonborn completely contradict what is stated in the Forgotten Realms sources, so I don't know how you can hold firm to them. Heck, in your 4E intro thread you talk about "Arkhosia," something that doesn't even exist for Forgotten Realms dragonborn.
Look, I appreciate what you've done for the Neverwinter community as far as lore is concerned, but on this you are just plain wrong.
kagetempestMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Ugh... 1. I don't like your attitude.
2. You are Right, My knowledge of Faerun is mainly limited to Books by R.A. Salvatore from Before the Spellplague and a few other authors as well as some old CRPGs, Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2, and the like.
Read what I wrote, "And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)"
I acknowledged that the FRPG calls them a "common race" but what I said is that just because the source calls them a "common race" does not make them common in Neverwinter.
And how about this one since you seem to like novels as sources from The Captive Flame, "Curious, she leaned forward. She'd encountered dragonborn a time or two but not often. A century after their sudden arrival in Faerun, they were still a rarity outside Tymanther, Chessenta, and High Imaskar."(emphasis mine).
Again, no, and I again, quote from the same source for a third time:
"""Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
Also, Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre believes that dragonborn are children of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, and not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. As such, members of this group believe that “good” dragons exist, an idea that is met with ridicule and scorn by most dragonborn."
The idea of a good dragon is alien and met with ridicule. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that. Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms do not, generally speaking, except for a ridiculed minority group, worship Bahamut because they don't even believe in the idea of good dragons, so why would they worship the deity of good dragon? What is your explanation? Do they not know Bahamut is the deity of good dragons but still worship him? Why? What basis does this worship of Bahamut by the dragonborn of Faerun have in any Forgotten Realms specific lore source that isn't talking about the Platinum Cadre.
If its anything like you're inaccuracies 1 and 2, the rest won't be inaccuracies at all, just things you're pulling from non-FR sources and trying to apply to FR even though the FR sources contradict. Again, Player's Handbook: Dragonborn is not a Forgotten Realms source and most of the things in it DO NOT APPLY TO NEVERWINTER AS THEY CONTRADICT WHAT IS STATED IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS SOURCES.
There was a dragonborn in a recent novel that worshipped Tiamat, she infiltrated guess which group? The Platinum Cadre, the group of dragonborn that follows Bahamut and is shunned by much of dragonborn kind.
It imparts knowledge on the subject that is specifically addressed, which run completely counter to your assertions from less world specific sources.
If it contradicts whats in the Forgotten Realms source material it doesn't apply, most of things you've stated that come from sources such as the Draconomicon and Player's Handbook: Dragonborn completely contradict what is stated in the Forgotten Realms sources, so I don't know how you can hold firm to them. Heck, in your 4E intro thread you talk about "Arkhosia," something that doesn't even exist for Forgotten Realms dragonborn.
I did my homework long ago so I wouldnt be disappointed if Dragon born Never made it in the game
I quot from FR 4.0 handbook
"OTHER COMMON RACES
The eight character races detailed in the Player’s
Handbook are major forces in the FORGOTTEN REALMS
setting. The information in this section builds on the
Player’s Handbook material, tailoring each race to fit its
special niche in the world.
Dragonborn
Born of Abeir, the dragonborn are an honorable
people who draw strength from the hardships of their
heritage and their resolve to survive.
Description and Homelands
Dragonborn are a handsome fusion of dragon and
human. Tall and muscled, gifted with incredible
strength and great reserves of physical endurance,
dragon born are ideal warriors. Added to their physical
prowess is their adherence to a disciplined life, giving
them the will to excel at whatever they set out to do.
The dragonborn of Tymanther are a people displaced,
brought into Toril during the cataclysm nearly
a century past. In Returned Abeir, dragonborn yet
toil for dragon overlords, living and dying at their
whim. But those of Tymanther are descendants of
dragonborn who broke the shackles of tyranny to
fight against their dread masters. A portion of their
hard-won land of free dragonborn merged with
Toril, separating the Tymantherans from their kin.
In the decades since, the Tymantherans have sought
to forget the grief of this estrangement and have
grappled with the realization that their relocation
might have ultimately doomed those left behind to
renewed servitude. Still, even with this knowledge
haunting them, the dragonborn in Faerun are free
from the oppression defining their history and now
look toward a bright future in a new world."
It does say Faerun
They are also in the Neverwinter Campaign Guide, so they are common to FR and Faerun and in Neverwinter
From Campaign Guide under "New Neverwinter Encounters"
"Cult of the Dragon Encounters"
Dragonborn Mercenary 2 Skirmisher MV
Dragonborn Soldier 5 Soldier, MV
Dragonborn mercenaries and soldiers are in and around the city they are probably no uncommon, especially with how common I found the cult of the dragon in BW1
I did my homework long ago so I wouldnt be disappointed if Dragon born Never made it in the game
Dragonborn absolutely exist in Faerun. They are just rare in the part of Faerun that Neverwinter is, as shown both by the sourcebooks themselves(which say most dragonborn are in Tymanther still) and novels. the NW campaign guide putting them in the cult of the dragon is a headscratcher given the rest of the lore, I believe it to be an oversight(or they are some of the exceedingly rare dragonborn worshipers of Tiamat or evil dragons.) I am sure, however, that a fair few have ended up in the guard of Neverwinter, despite being rare. Regardless, as I stated as the beginning of this discussion, I'm not opposed to dragonborn being in Neverwinter, my concern was with the lore breaking that a large percentage of the player population being them would bring to immersion.
I see only denial to obvious truth which I will vanquish by the light of direct quotes instead of assumptions.
No dragonborn in Neverwinter? Yes sir! True!
Page 88 NEW NEVERWINTER ENCOUNTERS
Creature level and Role Source Dwarf...
lowtown Urchin ...
...
...
...
Human Goon...
Common...
Dragonborn Mercenary 2 Skirmisher MV lowtown...
...
...
...
...
Half...
Dragonborn Soldier... ...
...
...
...
...
...
These encounters are inside the city (Protector's enclave). No I can see no dragonborn in city, do you?
~~~~
Arkhosia is not anywhere. It is a legend and it holds true in Forgotten Realms. It is not a place but a realm which was long ago abandoned by Tieflings Nobles and Dragonborn alike. It holds firm in Neverwinter context, however if you are going by locating it on Toril map, you are in err.
A quick source amnogst many sources which bares your misconception is Dragon 367, page 11. Column 3.
Oh sorry! That is just a forgotten Realm chapter in a magzine published by WotC! It is not a source for your perception! No no. That does not qualify as source. Neither does any other chapter anywhere else!
~~~~
Hmm... what is a dragonborn doing in official game approved by WotC and Neverwinter(cryptic) alike?
No it does not please t3h god! Burn the game! Burn it!
How dare they put dragonborn as main race and on front cover?
Burn it! Burn it!
p.s.
As I said, you need to read more. You have read a lot but your arrogance makes you blind to real knowledge. And before poking holes at what others have done to the community, you better keep your facts straight or not accuse them of inaccuracies if you have nothing to back it up with except for half-baked perception of yours!
I see only denial to obvious truth which I will vanquish by the light of direct quotes instead of assumptions.
No dragonborn in Neverwinter? Yes sir! True!
These encounters are inside the city (Protector's enclave). No I can see no dragonborn in city, do you?
Are you kidding with this? Please show me one place where I said that dragonborn don't exist in Neverwinter or that they don't exist in Forgotten Realms. You can't because every single post I've made has said that they do exist in Forgotten Realms and they are in Neverwinter just rare. So please continue to attack an argument that I didn't make.
Arkhosia is not anywhere. It is a legend and it holds true in Forgotten Realms. It is not a place but a realm which was long ago abandoned by Tieflings Nobles and Dragonborn alike. It holds firm in Neverwinter context, however if you are going by locating it on Toril map, you are in err.
A quick source amnogst many sources which bares your misconception is Dragon 367, page 11. Column 3.
Oh sorry! That is just a forgotten Realm chapter in a magzine published by WotC! It is not a source for your perception! No no. That does not qualify as source. Neither does any other chapter anywhere else!
~~~~
*Jaw falls to ground*
No what comes from your holy mouth is true ofcourse, sources be damned! All hail.... Oh! Everybody is rolling on floor.
I stand corrected. It seems I was incorrect about my assertion that Arkhosia does not exist in the Forgotten Realms. But that doesn't change the fact that you've been shown to be wrong about basically everything else in this discussion and still hold fast to your beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Hmm... what is a dragonborn doing in official game approved by WotC and Neverwinter(cryptic) alike?
No it does not please t3h god! Burn the game! Burn it!
How dare they put dragonborn as main race and on front cover?
Burn it! Burn it!
p.s.
As I said, you need to read more. You have read a lot but your arrogance makes you blind to real knowledge. And before poking holes at what others have done to the community, you better keep your facts straight or not accuse them of inaccuracies if you have nothing to back it up with except for half-baked perception of yours!
So? Dragonborn appeared on the cover to a Facebook game, that probably just means that someone liked the art, and dragonborn exist. A fact of which I never refuted, nor did I refute that dragonborn are adventurers in Neverwinter, what I did say is that they are not common in Neverwinter(which the sourcebooks support) and that I would feel it to be immersion breaking to see them, along with other races make up a majority population in Neverwinter.
As for not keeping my facts straight, that is why I have directly quoted multiple sources on the matter. You on the other hand, have referenced sources that are not Forgotten Realms specific that contradict the sources I have directly quoted that are. I admitted my mistake when confronted with a source that I verified, you on the other hand resorted to attacking a strawman argument I never made.
*Jaw falls to ground*
No what comes from your holy mouth is true ofcourse, sources be damned! All hail.... Oh! Everybody is rolling on floor.
He has a point. Dragonborn inhabit an entire continent. That makes them common. It does not, however, make them common in the northern Sword Coast.
That said, I do want dragonborn in the game. I like them a lot. When I read Brimstone Angels, I got the feeling that dragonborn were rare in the area, but not totally unheard of. I mean, just about everyone who met Mehen asked if he was from Tymanther, and pretty much everyone knew that the dragonborn as a race were honorable soldiers.
So, bring on the dragonborn! Maybe with Breath Weapon as an encounter power that can be used in place of one from your class.
0
ozewaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I would enjoy Melphlings.
President of the Amnian Illithid Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Please spread the word that the term "Mind Flayer" is a derogatory term to our kind.
Comments
Elves look pretty similar, but I think it helps save costs on race design, plus they are a very standard and popular race to people not so familiar with DnD. I think patience is going to be a key but eventually we will see some really cool stuff come to the game. I am dieing to play a bard myself.
Die like the rest
Check my signature on updates to lore. "4e Intro"
I doubt they will release Dragonborn mainly because they may look similar to Tieflings and fill the same "odd creature" niche.
Gnomes are not exceedingly rare in Forgotten Realms but they are not identified as one of the common races in the 4th edition Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms instead being identified as a member of the "supporting cast." But then again, orcs or half-orcs, are also members of this "supporting cast" and the latter is a release race.
As for Dragonborn, they are mostly not found in the area where Neverwinter takes place, having returned to Toril from the twin world Abeir as a result of the spellplague. Most of the Dragonborn on Abeir-Toril live in a place called Tymanther, which is on the other side of Faerun compared to where the game takes place.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
The lycans (were-wolf, were-rat and were-serpent) are quite common in FR. Infact the most popular ones are divided into our types:- Selunite, Silvanus and Malar shapeshifters common in sword coast. (And Sseth+Zehir's were-serpent shapeshifters not common in sword coast).
I did a thread on them one "Know your lore: Lycanthropy" You can refer it for more details.
Also, there are shifters in FR (apart from above, the ones like in star trek) and they live undetected in cities.
Lastly, common NPC and common PC are two different things. Dragonborn may not be common in NW city as NPCs but they are very common as PC in all of faerun as they like to adventure a lot, and they like to kill dragons.
Refer to official material before assuming what you think should be common or not.
EDIT:
Link:-
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?31021-Know-your-Lore-Lycanthropes
They ARE in the Neverwinter Campaign Guide
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The ultimate problem is that rare often becomes common in an MMO. Adventures travel a lot, tis true, but the vast majority of a race isn't made up of adventures(even races like Dragonborn). This is the same problem you'd run into with drow if they were a release race, if 75% of the players are a race that is rare in a given area because those races are cool, it has a detrimental effect on the lore because most of what you see is PCs.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
Which makes sense, what wouldn't make sense would be for 75% of the adventures in the city to be Dragonborn, Drow, and Tieflings, which is most likely what would occur if all three of those races were in at launch.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
P.S. Yes I know the cleric from Plane Scape did not use a weapon she used her claws.
Those who have played official 4e adventures know that dragonborn, tiefling and even drow are very common in Neverwinter. A certain dragonborn came from Waterdeep specifically to deal with devil problem.
Dragonborn are very willingly hired in many adventurer parties. They have Tymanther - a whole city to themselves. However, suspiciousness of dragonborn arise not because of who they are but their recent arrival (100 years) compared to other races. Their honorable ways have already earned the trust of many.
Secondly, the Forgotten realms is very alignment friendly. So those who worship Bahamut (almost all dragonborn) are always welcome by the Tormite (and by extension Tyr's) clergy. Hence anyone who is a dragonborn adventurer is sure to come to any city which is famous.
If there is no Dragonborn in your city, it means the reputation of your city is very low. A big city like Waterdeep, Amn and Baldur's gate has a large population of dragonborns - not only in adventuring parties but as those who give missions and adventures.
NW is not that popular compared to these cities, but still ok in popularity. So it should have good population of dragonborn.
However villages like Connyberry etc should not have any dragonborn as these are useless ruins in their eyes (unless a chromatic dragon attacks it).
~~~
tl;dr
You are wrong in assumption that dragonborn are rare. The population of dragonborn is directly proportional to the prestige of te city. If there is no dragonborn in your city, it means your city is unworthy of being called a city and might as well be a village.
Very common? I certainly wouldn't say that and neither does the source material. The presence of a few people of a given race doesn't make them common or very common. So while the game description that they are many Tieflings in Neverwinter is accurate(Tieflings are generally more numerous in Forgotten Realms than other settings), the same doesn't hold true for Dragonborn or Drow, despite a group of drow operating in the city, and the occasional dragonborn being present. And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)
Tymanther is a kingdom, and the fact that they are commonly adventurers doesn't change the fact that Tymanther is across the world from Neverwinter.
Again the argument isn't that dragonborn are unwelcome or that they aren't good adventures, the argument is that they are not commonly found in the part of the world that Neverwinter is located in.
Also, the dragonborn of the Forgotten Realms do not "almost all" worship Bahamut. I quote from the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide(FRPG):
"Since Abeir was without divine influence, at least in a way that most people of Toril understand, dragonborn regard the gods and their servants with suspicion, for they have ever held themselves accountable for their own actions and never to the expectations of others, especially to some remote god or other."
And again from the 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting:
"Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
Says where, that's not consistent with what is in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide or Player's Guide, and while the Neverwinter Campaign Guide has dragonborn as part of Neverember's troops, it also has them as an equally large part of the cult of the dragon forces(not the secret sect that hides their beliefs which exists in Tymanther and hides what the Cult of the Dragon is really about) the FRPG says this on their relationship to Dragons,
"The number of dragonborn who remember the times before the migration are minuscule, but nearly every dragonborn living today has a relative who suffered under the dragon despots of Abeir. Chilling tales told around family hearths and the recitations of oral histories in the gallery of the City-Bastion in Djerad Thymar (see page 124) instill in these doughty folk a deep and abiding hatred of all dragonkind. Even though the dragons of Toril had nothing to do with their appalling treatment, dragonborn bear a grudge that burns as hot now as it ever did before. In fact, those who take up a life of dragon-hunting are among some of the most celebrated heroes in Tymanther."
and the cult of the dragon:
"Cult of the Dragon: A secret cell of the Cult of the Dragon prospers in Djerad Thymar. The cult keeps its inmost membership and beliefs secret, but it has a public face called the Abeir Academy that welcomes dragonborn who are down on their luck and looking for a new start. In this way, the cell cultivates potential members."
Yet the Neverwinter Campaign Guide seems to think they'd be in an open Cult of the Dragon...
Again, the argument isn't that dragonborn don't exist, the argument is that they should not represent collectively with drow and tiefling the majority of Neverwinter's adventuring community.
Again, show me anywhere in the source material where that's stated. And again, I did not say that dragonborn do not exist in Neverwinter, I said that they are not common, which everything I've seen indicates to be the case.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
Character is what a man is in the dark
I don't want to get into argument but I pointed out inaccuracies.
Also, you are mixing your own perceptions with facts. Try to look back to the sources listed above or you can check my 4e Intro for a brief summary.
The PHB and Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn are not Forgotten Realms specific sources. I've quoted material from the FRCG, FRPG and NCG which are. Dungeon Magazine adventures, while perhaps official, are not on the same level as the three official released sourcebooks imo. But even if you believe they are, the presence of a specific number of dragonborn adventures or creatures in those adventures does not a common race in a region make.
No, they are more common, as expressed by the FRCG, and FRPG and more spread out through the world.
Its across Faerun, since 95% of the Forgotten Realms game world consists of adventures on Faerun, I figured it was okay to say world. Yes, its not completely across Faerun, its true, but there are numerous lands closer to Neverwinter than Thymanther. Among them, The Dragon Coast, Amn, Cormyr, Tethyr, Calimshan, Sembia, the Dalelands, the Vast, Aglarond, Impultur, Narfell, Turmish, Chessenta, Vilhon Wilds, and Akanul.
PHB: Dragonborn is not a Forgotten Realms source!!!
Both not Forgotten Realms sources. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this, D&D has both generic books, Draconomicon, Players Handbook Races: Dragonborn, Player's Handbook 1 and setting specific books, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Neverwinter Campaign Guide, when the two sets of sources contradict on lore, the setting specific books always win.
Dragonborn in Forgotten Realms question the very idea that there are good dragons in the first place. I quote again from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting,
""Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
the worship of Bahamut is rare, and ridiculed by Dragonborn on Toril. I don't know how much clearer it could be.
I cannot speak to evil dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms because I do not see anything in the Forgotten Realms source material that discusses them(although it may exist.) I very much highly doubt that they worship Tiamat, however, since I doubt they'd suddenly become different in their view of deities from their good counterparts.
No, what I am saying is setting specific lore, which is inconsistent with non-setting specific lore, and as I already said, setting specific lore always wins when talking about a game set in that setting.
The idea that dragons could be good, is again, foreign to most Dragonborn, so I fail to see how this scenario matters.
The only sources that matter to this discussion are the FR Novels and what I've used, because again, the other books are not talking specifically about Forgotten Realms dragonborn, which have a completely different origin and game outlook that the dragonborn presented in the core supplements.
The only article in dragon and dungeon that would potentially matter would be those that are specific to the Forgotten Realms, which there are none specifically on dragonborn. Potentially other articles on dragonborn have information specific to the Forgotten Realms but I would have to look them up individually.
Your 4E intro on dragonborn is mostly accurate, but what you are arguing here strays far away from what is true in the Forgotten Realms and goes completely into things that are not true in the Forgotten Realms and directly contradict what is true in the Forgotten Realms based on the official Forgotten Realms material on dragonborn.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
You are now arguing for the sake of arguing. If you want me to personally point out the inaccuracies instead of correcting them yourself, fine.
Inaccuracy 1:- Dragonborn are not common race.
Fact:- Check my 4e Intro thread which takes the quote directly from NWCG:- Did you read what races up there are in common? Point to note is that it is Neverwinter Campaign Guide; not FR CG or core(greyhawk) CG.
Inaccuracy 2:- Dragonborn do not worship Bahamut.
Fact:- As I pointed out before, the fact that they do not lay trust on dieties does not apply to Bahamut and Tiamat. These two dragon gods are worshipped by Dragonborn regardless just like Asmodeus is worshipped by Tieflings.
Inaccuracy 3:-...
I can point more, but I don't want to be seem as bashing you. I can see you have read a lot which is good. However as I stressed - it is half the knowledge. You need to research it more and in time you will realize the complete picture. PHB:Dragonborn has some elements that do not apply to NW canon but most of them do. A lot of material from Draconomicon also applies even though it talk of greyhawk as base or core.
I have outlined some differences in deities thread while discussing Bahamut and Tiamat. There was a recent novel about Tiamat hatching her eggs and stuff which explains some dragonborn getting corrupted and working for Tiamat over time. It also explains what king killer star did and the fact that the enchantment placed on it has been removed. A lot of things specific to Neverwinter.
~~~~
Your knowledge is very incomplete. Just reading a few lines from source material does not impart complete knowledge. You should read more and discuss it more with others.
Although it is true that core books may not apply to NW setting, that is not always the case for every fact. Many things do apply directly.
Read what I wrote, "And no the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide calling them a "common race" does not make them common throughout Faerun(the common races are just those found in Player's Handbook 1.)"
I acknowledged that the FRPG calls them a "common race" but what I said is that just because the source calls them a "common race" does not make them common in Neverwinter.
And how about this one since you seem to like novels as sources from The Captive Flame, "Curious, she leaned forward. She'd encountered dragonborn a time or two but not often. A century after their sudden arrival in Faerun, they were still a rarity outside Tymanther, Chessenta, and High Imaskar."(emphasis mine).
Again, no, and I again, quote from the same source for a third time:
"""Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre works to change the dragon hatred of the people. It teaches that dragonborn are the ancient children of the dragon god Bahamut, not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. To dragonborn, the idea of a good dragon is alien, so the Platinum Cadre is ridiculed at best and often beset by angry violence at worst."
Also, "Platinum Cadre: The Platinum Cadre believes that dragonborn are children of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, and not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. As such, members of this group believe that “good” dragons exist, an idea that is met with ridicule and scorn by most dragonborn."
"Roleplaying Tips: You are a rebel, rejecting the prevailing orthodoxy of your race for a new faith. You
strive to uphold the precepts of your deity and convert others to his church. Though it might take some time, you are confident that the worship of Bahamut will spread throughout the dragonborn race. You avoid overt displays of faith when wandering Djerad Thymar."
The idea of a good dragon is alien and met with ridicule and you want the worship of Bahamut to spread throughout the dragonborn race, which implies the dragonborn race does not worship Bahamut already in large degree. I don't know how much clearer it can get than that.
If its anything like you're inaccuracies 1 and 2, the rest won't be inaccuracies at all, just things you're pulling from non-FR sources and trying to apply to FR even though the FR sources contradict. Again, Player's Handbook: Dragonborn is not a Forgotten Realms source and most of the things in it DO NOT APPLY TO NEVERWINTER AS THEY CONTRADICT WHAT IS STATED IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS SOURCES.
There was a dragonborn in a recent novel that worshipped Tiamat, she infiltrated guess which group? The Platinum Cadre, the group of dragonborn that follows Bahamut and is shunned by much of dragonborn kind.
It imparts knowledge on the subject that is specifically addressed, which run completely counter to your assertions from less world specific sources.
If it contradicts whats in the Forgotten Realms source material it doesn't apply, most of things you've stated that come from sources such as the Draconomicon and Player's Handbook: Dragonborn completely contradict what is stated in the Forgotten Realms sources, so I don't know how you can hold firm to them. Heck, in your 4E intro thread you talk about "Arkhosia," something that doesn't even exist for Forgotten Realms dragonborn.
Look, I appreciate what you've done for the Neverwinter community as far as lore is concerned, but on this you are just plain wrong.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
2. You are Right, My knowledge of Faerun is mainly limited to Books by R.A. Salvatore from Before the Spellplague and a few other authors as well as some old CRPGs, Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2, and the like.
I did my homework long ago so I wouldnt be disappointed if Dragon born Never made it in the game
I quot from FR 4.0 handbook
"OTHER COMMON RACES
The eight character races detailed in the Player’s
Handbook are major forces in the FORGOTTEN REALMS
setting. The information in this section builds on the
Player’s Handbook material, tailoring each race to fit its
special niche in the world.
Dragonborn
Born of Abeir, the dragonborn are an honorable
people who draw strength from the hardships of their
heritage and their resolve to survive.
Description and Homelands
Dragonborn are a handsome fusion of dragon and
human. Tall and muscled, gifted with incredible
strength and great reserves of physical endurance,
dragon born are ideal warriors. Added to their physical
prowess is their adherence to a disciplined life, giving
them the will to excel at whatever they set out to do.
The dragonborn of Tymanther are a people displaced,
brought into Toril during the cataclysm nearly
a century past. In Returned Abeir, dragonborn yet
toil for dragon overlords, living and dying at their
whim. But those of Tymanther are descendants of
dragonborn who broke the shackles of tyranny to
fight against their dread masters. A portion of their
hard-won land of free dragonborn merged with
Toril, separating the Tymantherans from their kin.
In the decades since, the Tymantherans have sought
to forget the grief of this estrangement and have
grappled with the realization that their relocation
might have ultimately doomed those left behind to
renewed servitude. Still, even with this knowledge
haunting them, the dragonborn in Faerun are free
from the oppression defining their history and now
look toward a bright future in a new world."
It does say Faerun
They are also in the Neverwinter Campaign Guide, so they are common to FR and Faerun and in Neverwinter
From Campaign Guide under "New Neverwinter Encounters"
Dragonborn Mercenary 2 Skirmisher MV
Dragonborn Soldier 5 Soldier MV
"Cult of the Dragon Encounters"
Dragonborn Mercenary 2 Skirmisher MV
Dragonborn Soldier 5 Soldier, MV
Dragonborn mercenaries and soldiers are in and around the city they are probably no uncommon, especially with how common I found the cult of the dragon in BW1
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Dragonborn absolutely exist in Faerun. They are just rare in the part of Faerun that Neverwinter is, as shown both by the sourcebooks themselves(which say most dragonborn are in Tymanther still) and novels. the NW campaign guide putting them in the cult of the dragon is a headscratcher given the rest of the lore, I believe it to be an oversight(or they are some of the exceedingly rare dragonborn worshipers of Tiamat or evil dragons.) I am sure, however, that a fair few have ended up in the guard of Neverwinter, despite being rare. Regardless, as I stated as the beginning of this discussion, I'm not opposed to dragonborn being in Neverwinter, my concern was with the lore breaking that a large percentage of the player population being them would bring to immersion.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
*loosing patience*
I see only denial to obvious truth which I will vanquish by the light of direct quotes instead of assumptions.
No dragonborn in Neverwinter? Yes sir! True!
These encounters are inside the city (Protector's enclave). No I can see no dragonborn in city, do you?
~~~~
Arkhosia is not anywhere. It is a legend and it holds true in Forgotten Realms. It is not a place but a realm which was long ago abandoned by Tieflings Nobles and Dragonborn alike. It holds firm in Neverwinter context, however if you are going by locating it on Toril map, you are in err.
A quick source amnogst many sources which bares your misconception is Dragon 367, page 11. Column 3.
Oh sorry! That is just a forgotten Realm chapter in a magzine published by WotC! It is not a source for your perception! No no. That does not qualify as source. Neither does any other chapter anywhere else!
~~~~
*Jaw falls to ground*
No what comes from your holy mouth is true ofcourse, sources be damned! All hail.... Oh! Everybody is rolling on floor.
https://www.facebook.com/HeroesOfNeverwinter
Hmm... what is a dragonborn doing in official game approved by WotC and Neverwinter(cryptic) alike?
No it does not please t3h god! Burn the game! Burn it!
How dare they put dragonborn as main race and on front cover?
Burn it! Burn it!
p.s.
As I said, you need to read more. You have read a lot but your arrogance makes you blind to real knowledge. And before poking holes at what others have done to the community, you better keep your facts straight or not accuse them of inaccuracies if you have nothing to back it up with except for half-baked perception of yours!
Are you kidding with this? Please show me one place where I said that dragonborn don't exist in Neverwinter or that they don't exist in Forgotten Realms. You can't because every single post I've made has said that they do exist in Forgotten Realms and they are in Neverwinter just rare. So please continue to attack an argument that I didn't make.
I stand corrected. It seems I was incorrect about my assertion that Arkhosia does not exist in the Forgotten Realms. But that doesn't change the fact that you've been shown to be wrong about basically everything else in this discussion and still hold fast to your beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
So? Dragonborn appeared on the cover to a Facebook game, that probably just means that someone liked the art, and dragonborn exist. A fact of which I never refuted, nor did I refute that dragonborn are adventurers in Neverwinter, what I did say is that they are not common in Neverwinter(which the sourcebooks support) and that I would feel it to be immersion breaking to see them, along with other races make up a majority population in Neverwinter.
As for not keeping my facts straight, that is why I have directly quoted multiple sources on the matter. You on the other hand, have referenced sources that are not Forgotten Realms specific that contradict the sources I have directly quoted that are. I admitted my mistake when confronted with a source that I verified, you on the other hand resorted to attacking a strawman argument I never made.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
That said, I do want dragonborn in the game. I like them a lot. When I read Brimstone Angels, I got the feeling that dragonborn were rare in the area, but not totally unheard of. I mean, just about everyone who met Mehen asked if he was from Tymanther, and pretty much everyone knew that the dragonborn as a race were honorable soldiers.
So, bring on the dragonborn! Maybe with Breath Weapon as an encounter power that can be used in place of one from your class.