In that case, I'm strongly against open world PK in this game.
Confirmation: SS answered his first batch of q's CONFIRMING the no-enhanced rule-sets for things like PvP servers due to world-shards on only one server and always being able to play with your friends. Can't say I'm surprised.
Will there be shards with different rulesets, like in PvE, RP-PvE, etc?
No, we have some pretty solid tech that allows us to have a "one server" solution. So you don't have to worry about whether your friends are on the X or Y server before starting out. You can just jump right in game! The downside, is this means no enforced rule sets.
Confirmation: SS answered his first batch of q's CONFIRMING the no-enhanced rule-sets for things like PvP servers due to world-shards on only one server and always being able to play with your friends. Can't say I'm surprised.
Uhm, I didn't quite get that. So is it confirmed that there will be no open world PK server?
Uhm, I didn't quite get that. So is it confirmed that there will be no open world PK server?
It is confirmed, because it's verified that there IS only one server.
The game will release as a PvE only game, with PvP added at a later date. Its early enough that they can decide to add in reserved pvp areas, but G's hope of an open world pvp server is not going to happen.
I would like open world .I like mass pvp that is not only about arenas( i never play arenas cause they are boring and with no point) and open world would be great if they balance classes properly.Still I whould be happy even with only arena or pvp zones.
I would like open world .I like mass pvp that is not only about arenas( i never play arenas cause they are boring and with no point) and open world would be great if they balance classes properly.Still I whould be happy even with only arena or pvp zones.
Ohh i agree with you about arenas i do not care for them either.
I would like open world .I like mass pvp that is not only about arenas( i never play arenas cause they are boring and with no point) and open world would be great if they balance classes properly.Still I whould be happy even with only arena or pvp zones.
This is the main point EVERYONE is missing. DnD classes are NOT balanced for pvp. Balancing them for pvp would ruin the classes. Pvp is great in it's own aspect, but not for the DnD world.
Explain. Show me roll results. I want to see game play logs that back this up. Cause I am tired of hearing it said without the evidence. Where does the game "break" in PVP? And prove to me that it is specifically because of the mechanics and not due to player error in tactics. And then show me proof that those classes can't be altered to fix those said balance issues. Less speculation and more proof please.
NO separate servers so no world PvP will be done. I'll abstain if the classes break down when PvPing and simply say they were designed to work as a group. Whether that works well against other PC groups I cannot say when done in an online environment, but it has been done in PnP before.
Explain. Show me roll results. I want to see game play logs that back this up. Cause I am tired of hearing it said without the evidence. Where does the game "break" in PVP? And prove to me that it is specifically because of the mechanics and not due to player error in tactics. And then show me proof that those classes can't be altered to fix those said balance issues. Less speculation and more proof please.
How would a trap rogue fair against a cleric or mage? or even a fighter for that matter? Self heals + the ability to melee + heavy armor. You're telling me you can change that class without ripping down DnD's version of a cleric? A mage with spiderweb and magic missles vs any melee. Melee loses.
Not to mention you'd have to balance racial skills. And the entire time people would be crying foul for this class or that class or this race or that race.
How would a trap rogue fair against a cleric or mage? or even a fighter for that matter? Self heals + the ability to melee + heavy armor. You're telling me you can change that class without ripping down DnD's version of a cleric? A mage with spiderweb and magic missles vs any melee. Melee loses.
Not to mention you'd have to balance racial skills. And the entire time people would be crying foul for this class or that class or this race or that race.
Fighter or cleric (but more likely fighter) can't see stealthed rogue. Then finds seen rogue, charges up. Is hit by trap, fighter is stunned granting CA. Rogue hits fighter with big attack when CA is granted. Continued fighting until end of combat. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to work, but it is potentially doable.
Exactly. Stop thinking you will fight your enemy using HIS tactics. And as far as not guaranteed to work if necessary that is where any tweaking could be done if necessary. Then it would be up to play testing to see how it works. There by being true to the character build while allowing that player to be anything but defenseless.
Exactly. Stop thinking you will fight your enemy using HIS tactics. And as far as not guaranteed to work if necessary that is where any tweaking could be done if necessary. Then it would be up to play testing to see how it works. There by being true to the character build but allowing that player to be defenseless.
Exactly. Short of full world player griefing, I do support well thought out PvP zones or areas and *do* hope we can have the group vs group option down the line in 2013
Arena's are better then mass pvp from verry simple reason. Soner or later 2 big groups meet and there is AoE skill fest and class's that can't cast range aoe are useless.
I said it before on mass pvp there is bunch of people that doesn't really know what to do and arenas are more about teamplay and reall skill.
There should be PK server's, i know from many games that i playd that often PK servers are more populated.
DDO proved in a modern day D&D environment that you could pit any classes against each other, but not any builds.
Take it from someone who's built or helped build thousands of builds for people over the years. You in essence could build a D&D character for either PvE or PvP.
But in a single server world, in a game where 99% of people are mainly PvE, at least the paying ones, you will only get PvP in designated areas. Cryptic seems quite proud and are very much promoting their single server solution as a better solution than DDOs multi server approach. For those insisting on an open world PvP server, you might as well leave now.
Either way, I dont see any reason to change a single bit of code to favor PvP in a single server game where the greatest majority of the gamers will be spending a great majority if not all of their time enjoying quests with fellow gamers (PvE).
I say they should clearly mark PvP friendly bars, and have bars that do not offer pvp as well... so those who have no interest in PvP doesnt have to deal with a dozen or so teenage mutant ninja turtles measuring their middle legs... heh heh
PvP in PvP arenas, get your Bruce Lee on. That is all.
I am hoping for a little more than arena. I am hoping for something like a zone that is very wild west like in nature.
They can do that. Cryptic can design a pvp instance, which the player can choose to create in game. Create a party, then enter pvp mode. Works well for pvp teams... and leaves people who could care less about pvp completely out of the equation.
But the area will be a smaller area than a standard quest... and probably the arena itself. This way at least, you can have a private area to do ya thang.
Only problem is... if its a drain on server resources, I'd say hell no to pvp in its entirety.
Arena PvP or BG systems is a joke. There is a need for open world PvP in a mmorpg. It is not even a question to be asked. There should be non pvp server and pvp server to fit the need of everyone.
Cryptic does not use multiple servers for different rulesets the way some MMO developers do. the live game is on one server. They've already said this is how it is going to be. It's how it is for Champions Online and Star Trek Online.
BUT in a PvP server, restriction to BGs and Duel is totally..... WoWish, familly value, non competitive, non interesting.
And yet people are always hitting those zones day-in and day out.
Please only suggest about systems. If you are against PvP, go in a non PvP server.
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. These servers are just as open as you want in-game PvP to be. You do not get to dictate how others respond to your suggestions. If we get out of hand, the mods will lock this thread.
NW is not launching with PvP. I say "thank God." I'd rather it be included as a fully fleshed-out system rather than something that is just tacked on so they can say, "And we have PvP, too."
The players are all on the same side. Open PvP requires factionalization, otherwise it is nothing but open ganking.
Now Cryptic has said that PvP will be coming AFTER launch. How open-world that will be is anyone's guess.
What I think might be possible is to have a string of zones, three maps thick spaning the length between the border between adjacent nation-states which may or may not be at war with each other. Those zones could change hands allowing enemys to start capturing zones that belong directly to their respective nation-states. For those who opt in to PvP, if a town or city is under seige by an enemy, they may enter that zone and fight enemy players there. The non-PvP version (for those who have hit max-level) would have enemy NPCs spawning in them. Each town would have three instance versions. One for normal leveling, one for PvE endgame, and one for optional PvP endgame with territorial control.
In this way, potentially anywhere in the world could be a PvP zone. But only those who want to PvP.
But realistically, grummush, I don't think it's really open world PvP you want, so much as PvP which has real consequences rather than just players battling in the same zone over and over and over again with neither victory or defeat having lasting effects beyond the battle in question.
Unless, of course, all you really want is the freedom to attack anyone anywhere, anytime regardless of whether or not they are into PvP or not. There is a word for that. It's called griefing. And speaking for myself, I have limited amounts of time to devote to gaming. If there is something i want to be able to do in the game with that time, then I do not want to be distracted from that just because some griegfer wants to get his rocks off by attacking me while I am minding my own business. Having said that, if I've got time to engage in PvP, I'd love to meet you on a battlefield of our respective liege's choosing, and we'll see whose sword is faster or whose fireballs are hotter.
PvPers should be able to enjoy meaningfull combat with real consequence, and PvEers should be able to enjoy meaningful content that does not force them out of their preferred style. And with the instancing capabilities of Cryptic's engine, both are possible.
That's fine for one's self. But what about players seeking PvP above all else and finding that the game won't let them attack anyone bcause they have opted out.
Better to have a fully developed open PvP system that prevents those who want no part in PvP from even being SEEN by those whose only interest is PvP.
What would really be good is if Foundry quests could be flagged as PvP battlegrounds with an objective for both sides to strive for that actually adjust some sort of condition in the regular game somehow.
That's fine for one's self. But what about players seeking PvP above all else and finding that the game won't let them attack anyone bcause they have opted out.
That's the point. Leave the people who want out alone...
i would like huge arena zones like "battlegrounds" on WOW for pvp.Simple arena is boring.NO use for rogue to use stealth if every1 know that hes there somewhere like it is in mini arenas.Battlegrounds whould alove group PVP and whould be much better.That same system like GW2.Many people say how Neverwinter cant have PVP cause classes cant be balanced but thats nonsense.No1 thought that Neverwinter can be even a MMO few weeks ago but here we are now with MMO that promises alot.If they do it right they can balance classes atleast for group battles-battlegrounds.
No thank you. Will not even play a game where kids are constantly coming to my characters asking "Hey lets fight!!!!!!" "Come on carebear Lets fight P*ssy!!!" Sound familiar?
No thank you. Will not even play a game where kids are constantly coming to my characters asking "Hey lets fight!!!!!!" "Come on carebear Lets fight P*ssy!!!" Sound familiar?
Exactly my point.
PvP either gets its own fully-fleshed-out mechanic with instances for every zone thus allowing open world PvP who want it and doesn't directly TOUCH anyone in any way who doesnt.
Fighter or cleric (but more likely fighter) can't see stealthed rogue. Then finds sees rogue, charges up. Is hit by trap, fighter is stunned granting CA. Rogue hits fighter with big attack when CA is granted. Continued fighting until end of combat. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to work, but it is potentially doable.
I never even mentioned fighter vs rogue. I'm talking caster vs non caster. And any cleric with a worthy willpower will have a fair enough spot skill to see the rogue. Command or hold person, pwn into oblivion. FR is infamous for casters being the power wielders.
Edit: And as for open world pvp, wasn't it already mentioned neverwinter was going to be a hub and all the adventures/dungeons instanced like DDO?
In regards to "PvP Balance". Honestly, outside of Arenas/Tournaments where people get and keep track of points, I'd rather have Rock<Paper<Scissors type of balance, specially in open world PvP or select maps PvP.
And as for open world pvp, wasn't it already mentioned neverwinter was going to be a hub and all the adventures/dungeons instanced like DDO?
Would kinda make it hard to do open world pvp.
Yes its already decided, there isnt going to be open world pvp. Its just not in the plans. It will be packaged later in segregated areas just to get your swing on... doubt it will be any serious effort. What you see in DDO is what pvpers will get here, with a fresh coat of paint, not much more...
Comments
Confirmation: SS answered his first batch of q's CONFIRMING the no-enhanced rule-sets for things like PvP servers due to world-shards on only one server and always being able to play with your friends. Can't say I'm surprised.
Uhm, I didn't quite get that. So is it confirmed that there will be no open world PK server?
It is confirmed, because it's verified that there IS only one server.
The game will release as a PvE only game, with PvP added at a later date. Its early enough that they can decide to add in reserved pvp areas, but G's hope of an open world pvp server is not going to happen.
Ohh i agree with you about arenas i do not care for them either.
No! Do you think that i could watch over anybodys shoulder without them noticing!?
It was just an assumption
This is the main point EVERYONE is missing. DnD classes are NOT balanced for pvp. Balancing them for pvp would ruin the classes. Pvp is great in it's own aspect, but not for the DnD world.
NO separate servers so no world PvP will be done. I'll abstain if the classes break down when PvPing and simply say they were designed to work as a group. Whether that works well against other PC groups I cannot say when done in an online environment, but it has been done in PnP before.
How would a trap rogue fair against a cleric or mage? or even a fighter for that matter? Self heals + the ability to melee + heavy armor. You're telling me you can change that class without ripping down DnD's version of a cleric? A mage with spiderweb and magic missles vs any melee. Melee loses.
Not to mention you'd have to balance racial skills. And the entire time people would be crying foul for this class or that class or this race or that race.
Fighter or cleric (but more likely fighter) can't see stealthed rogue. Then finds seen rogue, charges up. Is hit by trap, fighter is stunned granting CA. Rogue hits fighter with big attack when CA is granted. Continued fighting until end of combat. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to work, but it is potentially doable.
Exactly. Short of full world player griefing, I do support well thought out PvP zones or areas and *do* hope we can have the group vs group option down the line in 2013
I said it before on mass pvp there is bunch of people that doesn't really know what to do and arenas are more about teamplay and reall skill.
There should be PK server's, i know from many games that i playd that often PK servers are more populated.
Take it from someone who's built or helped build thousands of builds for people over the years. You in essence could build a D&D character for either PvE or PvP.
But in a single server world, in a game where 99% of people are mainly PvE, at least the paying ones, you will only get PvP in designated areas. Cryptic seems quite proud and are very much promoting their single server solution as a better solution than DDOs multi server approach. For those insisting on an open world PvP server, you might as well leave now.
Either way, I dont see any reason to change a single bit of code to favor PvP in a single server game where the greatest majority of the gamers will be spending a great majority if not all of their time enjoying quests with fellow gamers (PvE).
I say they should clearly mark PvP friendly bars, and have bars that do not offer pvp as well... so those who have no interest in PvP doesnt have to deal with a dozen or so teenage mutant ninja turtles measuring their middle legs... heh heh
PvP in PvP arenas, get your Bruce Lee on. That is all.
They can do that. Cryptic can design a pvp instance, which the player can choose to create in game. Create a party, then enter pvp mode. Works well for pvp teams... and leaves people who could care less about pvp completely out of the equation.
But the area will be a smaller area than a standard quest... and probably the arena itself. This way at least, you can have a private area to do ya thang.
Only problem is... if its a drain on server resources, I'd say hell no to pvp in its entirety.
Cryptic does not use multiple servers for different rulesets the way some MMO developers do. the live game is on one server. They've already said this is how it is going to be. It's how it is for Champions Online and Star Trek Online.
And yet people are always hitting those zones day-in and day out.
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. These servers are just as open as you want in-game PvP to be. You do not get to dictate how others respond to your suggestions. If we get out of hand, the mods will lock this thread.
NW is not launching with PvP. I say "thank God." I'd rather it be included as a fully fleshed-out system rather than something that is just tacked on so they can say, "And we have PvP, too."
The players are all on the same side. Open PvP requires factionalization, otherwise it is nothing but open ganking.
Now Cryptic has said that PvP will be coming AFTER launch. How open-world that will be is anyone's guess.
What I think might be possible is to have a string of zones, three maps thick spaning the length between the border between adjacent nation-states which may or may not be at war with each other. Those zones could change hands allowing enemys to start capturing zones that belong directly to their respective nation-states. For those who opt in to PvP, if a town or city is under seige by an enemy, they may enter that zone and fight enemy players there. The non-PvP version (for those who have hit max-level) would have enemy NPCs spawning in them. Each town would have three instance versions. One for normal leveling, one for PvE endgame, and one for optional PvP endgame with territorial control.
In this way, potentially anywhere in the world could be a PvP zone. But only those who want to PvP.
But realistically, grummush, I don't think it's really open world PvP you want, so much as PvP which has real consequences rather than just players battling in the same zone over and over and over again with neither victory or defeat having lasting effects beyond the battle in question.
Unless, of course, all you really want is the freedom to attack anyone anywhere, anytime regardless of whether or not they are into PvP or not. There is a word for that. It's called griefing. And speaking for myself, I have limited amounts of time to devote to gaming. If there is something i want to be able to do in the game with that time, then I do not want to be distracted from that just because some griegfer wants to get his rocks off by attacking me while I am minding my own business. Having said that, if I've got time to engage in PvP, I'd love to meet you on a battlefield of our respective liege's choosing, and we'll see whose sword is faster or whose fireballs are hotter.
PvPers should be able to enjoy meaningfull combat with real consequence, and PvEers should be able to enjoy meaningful content that does not force them out of their preferred style. And with the instancing capabilities of Cryptic's engine, both are possible.
That's fine for one's self. But what about players seeking PvP above all else and finding that the game won't let them attack anyone bcause they have opted out.
Better to have a fully developed open PvP system that prevents those who want no part in PvP from even being SEEN by those whose only interest is PvP.
What would really be good is if Foundry quests could be flagged as PvP battlegrounds with an objective for both sides to strive for that actually adjust some sort of condition in the regular game somehow.
That's the point. Leave the people who want out alone...
There's only going to be one server, so that's out of the question.
Read the posts I made above. It explains how this is still possible on a one-server setup...
No thank you. Will not even play a game where kids are constantly coming to my characters asking "Hey lets fight!!!!!!" "Come on carebear Lets fight P*ssy!!!" Sound familiar?
Exactly my point.
PvP either gets its own fully-fleshed-out mechanic with instances for every zone thus allowing open world PvP who want it and doesn't directly TOUCH anyone in any way who doesnt.
I never even mentioned fighter vs rogue. I'm talking caster vs non caster. And any cleric with a worthy willpower will have a fair enough spot skill to see the rogue. Command or hold person, pwn into oblivion. FR is infamous for casters being the power wielders.
Edit: And as for open world pvp, wasn't it already mentioned neverwinter was going to be a hub and all the adventures/dungeons instanced like DDO?
Would kinda make it hard to do open world pvp.
Yes its already decided, there isnt going to be open world pvp. Its just not in the plans. It will be packaged later in segregated areas just to get your swing on... doubt it will be any serious effort. What you see in DDO is what pvpers will get here, with a fresh coat of paint, not much more...