The only game that open world PvP can even be called successful is EVE Online and that's kept in check because there are a lot of checks and balances. Every other game that has focused heavily on PvP and PK style gameplay has failed utterly, so saying there is a need for it seems to be a huge misnomer.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty much the facts.
Daoc did quite well focusing on pvp but it wasn't forced upon people. You venture into the frontier there was realm vs realm pvp. It is what got me into pvp unfortunatly no game since has captured that imo. Of course it was not ffa pvp there were three realms at war with each other. Would this style work for Neverwinter probably not.
Faction based pvp might as long as folks can opt out of it if they wish.
reading further on no pvp was not an afterthought in Daoc i was in the alpha and beta one year of testing prior to the game releasing. The whole premise of the game were three sides at war in the frontier.
I Have a hard time believing that there will be only one server, NW will be a huge sucess if the game isnt riddled in bugs at launch...
Action MMO's with quality is what is lacking in the MMO industry.
After what i saw in the pax video if the rest of the game looks that solid we will have plenty of servers to play with... plx don't release the game without PVP it will be a dealbreaker for many.
The server is a server 'farm'. Which is, in essence, a whole bunch of servers all inter-connected. Shards are farmed off across the servers available to even out the load.
It's a concept that's used pretty commonly for high-end websites, such as Youtube, BBC iPlayer etc, that have a pretty high-load and massive user-base to avoid crashing the site by having a single, central machine running everything. It makes sense, therefore, to adopt it for MMOs.
For everybody's information, the FR is NOT a post-apocolyptical wasteland. It's 100+ years after that horrible event. Yes there's devistation, including some areas that are unstable (called the Plaguelands) which even there supports life, which may or may not mutate into something horrible by "typical" beings'" assessment.
...
What I meant was everything else beyond the city walls. These small settlements re the refuge from dangerous wildlands.
That said, I am not against pvp at all. Only thing which I unsavory for me is the cities and areas behind walls being used to throw challenges on the streets and PK and backstabbing.
The areas outside are somewhat understandable as plaguelands would have bandits and outcasts with spellplague-mark (whatever its name was) but inside the city, inside walls, I can't seem to like it unless its a 'friendly brawl' to test strength in the tavern.
And this is the part where I admit I'm confused and ask:
What constitutes "open world PvP?" Is it the ability to be attacked at any time anywhere (even if not by anyone) or the ability to challenge anybody at any time? Or is it something else?
Open world pvp is usually when you can be attacked anywhere.
So for example, you are fighting a monster and are low on health, someone can jump behind you and start a battle with you (though players form guild which protect them from such rude behavior and take revenge). Apart from that, basically anywhere.
However to protect low level people, some steps are taken to keep the duels balanced. The classes have all to be balanced too and strictly solo-able.
Also this kind of pvp has to be ingrained in the game and lot of things need to be balanced around it.
Basically, its something dnd is not.
EDIT: It may look scary, but its kind of fun if game is based around that from ground up.
...
Personally I want to see for D&D 5-6 person teams against each other in a dungeon off to get a prize, like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I believe in the Myagi fighting method: "...fighting not good. But if must fight, win."
I hope that is possible in foundry. It will make the campaigns interesting.
Open world pvp is usually when you can be attacked anywhere.
So for example, you are fighting a monster and are low on health, someone can jump behind you and start a battle with you (though players form guild which protect them from such rude behavior and take revenge). Apart from that, basically anywhere.
However to protect low level people, some steps are taken to keep the duels balanced. The classes have all to be balanced too and strictly solo-able.
Also this kind of pvp has to be ingrained in the game and lot of things need to be balanced around it.
Basically, its something dnd is not.
EDIT: It may look scary, but its kind of fun if game is based around that from ground up.
There's guard in the city. Guard could whack murderer on sight. As for the lowbie ganking, trust me, if you become a murderer and get a 'red' status for example, ALOT of peoples will hunt you down and it will be a dangerous game to be a murderer in a role playing game. Imagine yourself having a little crew of 5-6 murderers going out killings a couple of newbies and then sudently being chased by 20 paladins in sight of retribution upon the evil to protect the life of the innocents! You have to trust the community a bit to enforce the law too, not all good pvper will be evils. If for example you are in my guild and someone assassinate you, you can be SURE that he will eat his socks and won't do the same mistake too many times. The more boundary, controls, limits you set in a game, the less it is fun and the less options you get.
We need to have faith in players a little bit more. While being a murderer wouldnt bring you any group to go the raids for example, you would isolate yourself from society, pretty much. That is why i asked about what SYSTEMs would you guy's see in place. The system is very important in an open world pvp game. It need to make sure everything is under control, without really setting huge fence to control all actions.
I personally see D&D like a decision free game, the pen and paper version that is. Why wouldn't it be the same for the computer game ?
Another example would be 'The Shadow Thieves' trying to claim a certain territory. but in that territory, there is a second thieving guild name 'the burglar'. If there is no open world pvp or guild pvp, what would happen ? Nothing, that roleplay wouldnt even exist. Limit, boundary, controls is a game/role play killer.
Maybe you see all this as a very chaotic scene, but you got to trust the community and there is a lot of options to make some place safe to play without having to care about player killer. For example, you and your guild are going to a dungeon to search for a treasur, who want to attack a fully buffed group running around and going to a dungeon ? And if that occur, then you shall need to find allies to eliminate the threat, and i am 100% sure it would be easy to do so.
There's guard in the city. Guard could whack murderer on sight. As for the lowbie ganking, trust me, if you become a murderer and get a 'red' status for example, ALOT of peoples will hunt you down and it will be a dangerous game to be a murderer in a role playing game. Imagine yourself having a little crew of 5-6 murderers going out killings a couple of newbies and then sudently being chased by 20 paladins in sight of retribution upon the evil to protect the life of the innocents! You have to trust the community a bit to enforce the law too, not all good pvper will be evils. If for example you are in my guild and someone assassinate you, you can be SURE that he will eat his socks and won't do the same mistake too many times. The more boundary, controls, limits you set in a game, the less it is fun and the less options you get.
We need to have faith in players a little bit more. While being a murderer wouldnt bring you any group to go the raids for example, you would isolate yourself from society, pretty much. That is why i asked about what SYSTEMs would you guy's see in place. The system is very important in an open world pvp game. It need to make sure everything is under control, without really setting huge fence to control all actions.
I personally see D&D like a decision free game, the pen and paper version that is. Why wouldn't it be the same for the computer game ?
Another example would be 'The Shadow Thieves' trying to claim a certain territory. but in that territory, there is a second thieving guild name 'the burglar'. If there is no open world pvp or guild pvp, what would happen ? Nothing, that roleplay wouldnt even exist. Limit, boundary, controls is a game/role play killer.
Maybe you see all this as a very chaotic scene, but you got to trust the community and there is a lot of options to make some place safe to play without having to care about player killer. For example, you and your guild are going to a dungeon to search for a treasur, who want to attack a fully buffed group running around and going to a dungeon ? And if that occur, then you shall need to find allies to eliminate the threat, and i am 100% sure it would be easy to do so.
Actually, No. No we do not. I have played in Open world PVP games, I have seen endless griefing of lowbies by high levels. I have been corpse camped for hours (finally logging out for the night) by higher levels just wanting to stroke their epeen. It got to the point I found a PVE server and just enjoyed the game.
A PvP fans ability to get off on griefing other players should not trump another players ability to have fun playing a game. ESP if the game is supposed to be based on D&D (Co-op based game since 1976ish).
With the LACK of a PVE server, it would be too skewed toward the PvP crowd, running off the people who did not like PvP.
As a note: In SWTOR beta we were assigned servers. I started out on a PvP one. When the betas finally gave us the choice of what server to play on - The PVE server filled up and the PVP server was complaining about a lack of players. I believe that most games are split pretty evenly if not biased toward PVE players. Cryptic must know this and will include a form of PVP that will not drive off the PVE fans.
/agreed
Games should be developed without any trust in players. If there is an exploit/bug/etc the players will abuse it. They will.
I would suggest a very good article quoted by truthseeker somewhere on the forums (arrgg... things are always lost when you look for them). It explains how previous mmorpgs failed just because they thought players won't do this, won't do that.
Actually, No. No we do not. I have played in Open world PVP games, I have seen endless griefing of lowbies by high levels. I have been corpse camped for hours (finally logging out for the night) by higher levels just wanting to stroke their epeen. It got to the point I found a PVE server and just enjoyed the game.
A PvP fans ability to get off on griefing other players should not trump another players ability to have fun playing a game. ESP if the game is supposed to be based on D&D (Co-op based game since 1976ish).
With the LACK of a PVE server, it would be too skewed toward the PvP crowd, running off the people who did not like PvP.
As a note: In SWTOR beta we were assigned servers. I started out on a PvP one. When the betas finally gave us the choice of what server to play on - The PVE server filled up and the PVP server was complaining about a lack of players. I believe that most games are split pretty evenly if not biased toward PVE players. Cryptic must know this and will include a form of PVP that will not drive off the PVE fans.
Don't be so scared sir. There will be PvE server that is 100% certain. We are talking about PvP server possibility. You don't have to no no no or fight over my ideas as i am trying to get the PvP community to have their own server. Your fight is already won, you will have your PvE server from the start of the game .
Don't be so scared sir. There will be PvE server that is 100% certain. We are talking about PvP server possibility. You don't have to no no no or fight over my ideas as i am trying to get the PvP community to have their own server. Your fight is already won, you will have your PvE server from the start of the game .
Again, if you look at Champions Online and Star Trek Online, you will see that Cryptic does not have separate servers. What you are asking for is something that would cost them a lot of money as well as a design change.
Again, if you look at Champions Online and Star Trek Online, you will see that Cryptic does not have separate servers. What you are asking for is something that would cost them a lot of money as well as a design change.
This can not be an argument. If all they care about is money there is a huge problem ( Obviously they create game to get money but.. We dont play game to lose money, we play game to have fun, each of us do right ? ) , also, if they make it so both scenes have their little pieces of turf, they will end up making more money.
And as for design, you mean network infrastructure or game code infrastructure ? Because they are already talking about implementing PvP, so it is truly a zone restriction change, which is maybe what, 1 or 2 line of commands per maps / area ?
I am not asking for a second game. And anyhow they have engineers and coders that can make that possible.
This can not be an argument. If all they care about is money there is a huge problem ( Obviously they create game to get money but.. We dont play game to lose money, we play game to have fun, each of us do right ? ) , also, if they make it so both scenes have their little pieces of turf, they will end up making more money.
And as for design, you mean network infrastructure or game code infrastructure ? Because they are already talking about implementing PvP, so it is truly a zone restriction change, which is maybe what, 1 or 2 line of commands per maps / area ?
I am not asking for a second game. And anyhow they have engineers and coders that can make that possible.
While there are shards and instanced zones Cryptic does not have different servers (which is what you are asking for). They are going to implement PvP. This could be battlegrounds, arena, dueling, etc. The need for a Open World PvP Server is questionable at best. I believe I read somewhere that found that Battlegrounds and Arenas were actually where the bulk of PvP was taking place in other games.
Also in EVERY game where PvP becomes a prime factor the classes start getting nerfed and PVE suffers for it. Class A seems to be better than Class B - PVPers Rage and Class A gets nerfed.
Let the game be as close as possible to D&D. Let the Classes be as close as possible to the rule books. Let those who want to play a D&D MMO set in the forgotten realms do so. DO not pollute it because a few want to be able to gank lowbies.
While there are shards and instanced zones Cryptic does not have different servers (which is what you are asking for). They are going to implement PvP. This could be battlegrounds, arena, dueling, etc. The need for a Open World PvP Server is questionable at best. I believe I read somewhere that found that Battlegrounds and Arenas were actually where the bulk of PvP was taking place in other games.
Also in EVERY game where PvP becomes a prime factor the classes start getting nerfed and PVE suffers for it. Class A seems to be better than Class B - PVPers Rage and Class A gets nerfed.
Let the game be as close as possible to D&D. Let the Classes be as close as possible to the rule books. Let those who want to play a D&D MMO set in the forgotten realms do so. DO not pollute it because a few want to be able to gank lowbies.
Excuses me my friend but you make no sense at all. First of all, they are not owned by Atari any more so their might be a change of structure in the way they do things. Secondly PVPer do not pollute anyone. Right now PVPer arent raging, you are saying rage comments at PVPer. PVPer dont really gank lowbie as we are in search of competition/thrill, and i doubt even if you were a high level person that you would be any challenge for any of us. Also let me add this, people like YOU are ganking lowbie, because they can not do anything against player their level.
Also, BGs and Arenas aren't fun, there are too many limits to them. Now that is why there is a need for open world pvp, because PvPer aren't sheep and we don't want BGs.
And for your silly comments about us, i will ask you to stop polluting my post since you obviously don't know what you are talking about anyway and this post has nothing to do with you. I F*** word told you already that you have nothing to do here since you will have your PvE server so why would you keep complaining about PvPer ganking you non stop ? Not my problem if you have no talent in PvP and that you are frustrating at your past experience, just play in a PvE server and you won't suffer from your own lack of eyes-hand-brain coordination. And if you tell me i am trash talking, well you searched for it. You obviously are looking for a fight, but not a PvP fight huh ? Let's write each other a little poem about life and let's see who win the princess ? No thanks.
And by the way, we aren't a few. There's a lot of pvpers and trust me, the game devs know that fact, it isn't even to be argued.
Excuses me my friend but you make no sense at all. First of all, they are not owned by Atari any more so their might be a change of structure in the way they do things. Secondly PVPer do not pollute anyone. Right now PVPer arent raging, you are saying rage comments at PVPer. PVPer dont really gank lowbie as we are in search of competition/thrill, and i doubt even if you were a high level person that you would be any challenge for any of us. Also let me add this, people like YOU are ganking lowbie, because they can not do anything against player their level.
And a hearty Good Morning to you!
First - Cryptic has always had the single server, even before Atari purchased them. There has not been any post to say they are changing things. Perhaps with PWE coming on, they will make a change for this game, but Champions Online and STO still have the same server setup.
I have not said one thing that was Raging. What I said in regards to Raging is that in EVERY PVP game that I have played, and I STRESS that it was EVERY game, when one class even remotely seems to have an advantage the screams for nerf are nearly legendary.
Ganking and Griefing lower level players is common in Open PVP worlds. This is a fact, hate that you want to ignore it and gloss over it, but it is a fact.
Also, BGs and Arenas aren't fun, there are too many limits to them. Now that is why there is a need for open world pvp, because PvPer aren't sheep and we don't want BGs.
Yet usage reports show that Battlegrounds and Arenas are some of the most popular methods of PvP.
And for your silly comments about us, i will ask you to stop polluting my post since you obviously don't know what you are talking about anyway and this post has nothing to do with you. I F*** word told you already that you have nothing to do here since you will have your PvE server so why would you keep complaining about PvPer ganking you non stop ? Not my problem if you have no talent in PvP and that you are frustrating at your past experience, just play in a PvE server and you won't suffer from your own lack of eyes-hand-brain coordination. And if you tell me i am trash talking, well you searched for it. You obviously are looking for a fight, but not a PvP fight huh ? Let's write each other a little poem about life and let's see who win the princess ? No thanks.
Again, I am fine with a game that has PVP, PVE, RP, RP-PVP servers. I choose the one I want and leave the ones I do not to the people who do want it. What I have pointed out to you repeatedly is that Cryptic currently does not use more than one server. Go play Champions Online or Star Trek Online to see how they have the servers set up.
I was corpse camped as a level 20 character by a level 50 one within my first week of WoW. I freely admit that I personally was unable to defend myself against them. I have played a few PVP only games (last one was earthrise). I am not great at it, but then it does not really interest me much either. In SWTOR I played in the Arena (huttball) or BG when I wanted to PVP. Also I brought that up as a response to your statement about us needing to TRUST players. No. No we do not.
See that is the best part of PVE - you can PVP when you want to.
And by the way, we aren't a few. There's a lot of pvpers and trust me, the game devs know that fact, it isn't even to be argued.
There are many PVE players as well. There are many RP players (The RP servers filled up the first day in SWTOR btw). They are going to put PvP systems in the game, while I doubt they will be going open world PVP (and I thank them for that) I do think they will make a definite effort to make sure that there is some form of fun PvP that everyone can enjoy.
PvP does not need to be open world to exist in a game.
And on a side note, I do not believe I was personal in any post I have made, perhaps I should start to speak like an Elcor or HK47?
First - Cryptic has always had the single server, even before Atari purchased them. There has not been any post to say they are changing things. Perhaps with PWE coming on, they will make a change for this game, but Champions Online and STO still have the same server setup.
I have not said one thing that was Raging. What I said in regards to Raging is that in EVERY PVP game that I have played, and I STRESS that it was EVERY game, when one class even remotely seems to have an advantage the screams for nerf are nearly legendary.
Ganking and Griefing lower level players is common in Open PVP worlds. This is a fact, hate that you want to ignore it and gloss over it, but it is a fact.
Yet usage reports show that Battlegrounds and Arenas are some of the most popular methods of PvP.
Again, I am fine with a game that has PVP, PVE, RP, RP-PVP servers. I choose the one I want and leave the ones I do not to the people who do want it. What I have pointed out to you repeatedly is that Cryptic currently does not use more than one server. Go play Champions Online or Star Trek Online to see how they have the servers set up.
I was corpse camped as a level 20 character by a level 50 one within my first week of WoW. I freely admit that I personally was unable to defend myself against them. I have played a few PVP only games (last one was earthrise). I am not great at it, but then it does not really interest me much either. In SWTOR I played in the Arena (huttball) or BG when I wanted to PVP. Also I brought that up as a response to your statement about us needing to TRUST players. No. No we do not.
See that is the best part of PVE - you can PVP when you want to.
There are many PVE players as well. There are many RP players (The RP servers filled up the first day in SWTOR btw). They are going to put PvP systems in the game, while I doubt they will be going open world PVP (and I thank them for that) I do think they will make a definite effort to make sure that there is some form of fun PvP that everyone can enjoy.
PvP does not need to be open world to exist in a game.
And on a side note, I do not believe I was personal in any post I have made, perhaps I should start to speak like an Elcor or HK47?
[pleasant toned] Have a nice Day!
Hhahahaa alright i must admit i have my own temper No bad feelings and BGs are very popular because there's nothing else to do in these game that have Bg's ( Nothing else to do PvP wise ). There's alot of PvPer asking for Uo 2, DAOC2, shadow bane 2 and it is normal. We are tired of company trying to provide the best of both world to gamers without excelling at neither.
I don't know about that. If it is "crappy" just because it is not a happy ending then I have a feeling I might have disagreed. If for other reasons then well....
I don't know about that. If it is "crappy" just because it is not a happy ending then I have a feeling I might have disagreed. If for other reasons then well....
*shrug*
More the fact that it made no sense, did not really have your choices reflected, and was a rip off of another game. But some did like it though.
Actually, No. No we do not. I have played in Open world PVP games, I have seen endless griefing of lowbies by high levels. I have been corpse camped for hours (finally logging out for the night) by higher levels just wanting to stroke their epeen. It got to the point I found a PVE server and just enjoyed the game.
I hate open world PvP games like those. So poorly conceived. On the other hand, I have seen other open world PvP games that successfully address these kinds of griefing such as:
Temporary immunity upon respawning; effect cancelled upon attacking. (Gives them time to teleport back to town. The effect cancelling thing is for if they want to jump right into PvP again).
Allowing the option to respawn back to town without penalties. (Going back to your corpse as the only way of respawning is the most stupid thing to do in an open world pvp)
Flagging frequent offenders as "wanted"/red name, giving them certain penalties for a duration, such as being killed on sight by town guards. (Another stupid thing in open world PvP is when a frequent griefer can just as easily teleport back to town and be safe from PK hunters).
Some sort of server wide system where players can look up frequent offenders - a Bounty Board of some sorts.
Open PvP only on select maps/areas. (Usually, the open PvP maps are the higher exp maps so there's this risk-reward thing if you want to venture there. Otherwise, you can go to the regular maps with regular exp).
And these are just a handful of examples. I'm not completely advocating for open world PvP; all I'm pointing out is there are options of making it possible without being a cause of griefing. If nothing else, the instanced dungeons with your group of 5 will definitely be PvP free
People who want open world PVP ARENT the minority, they are the majority.
Ok, I'm going to be nice about this. Stay on your NW2 server.
You will enjoy Arena PvP in this game if you are lucky, at game launch. The way this game is shaping up, so far the great majority of us do NOT want open world PvP. Many have said, as they are telling you in this thread, they wouldnt have concerns if it was sectioned off to designated areas. DDO placed it under the bars.
And before you shout on your glassslipper tippytoes about DDO, "Hey seeee DDO allowed PvP --- see its the popularrrrrr!!!!", actually less than .05% of the population is seen pvpin at any given time.
Now I've got plenty of experience PvPin in DDO, and in many other games. I'm all for pvp designated areas or even pvp servers... but you ARE going to be the minority playing this game.... and thats not a bad thing, unless you think you are the anointed one that is...:D:rolleyes:
Cryptic only uses ONE server and their shard system does NOT SUPPORT Worldwide PvP before during and after Atari ownership!
Sometimes you have to shout it from the rooftops, as this is not even about if appropriate to the game or not specifically, it's simply not their way.
I'm sorry if this is not to your liking G, but I'm sure if you ask Cryptic in the same tone and manner here you've been replying to us in this thread, you'll get the response expected.
/agreed
Games should be developed without any trust in players. If there is an exploit/bug/etc the players will abuse it. They will.
I would suggest a very good article quoted by truthseeker somewhere on the forums (arrgg... things are always lost when you look for them). It explains how previous mmorpgs failed just because they thought players won't do this, won't do that.
Cryptic only uses ONE server and their shard system does NOT SUPPORT Worldwide PvP before during and after Atari ownership!
Exactly....I am a pretty big PVP fan myself. But...open world PVP only works ....oddly enough....in an open world ala UO. When you have the population divided up and off in instances, and there are multiple instances of zones to swap to and such.....well ....it just doesnt fit.
I wont even go into the whole DnD Game and how imbalanced the classes are for PVP. (strictly speaking of 3.5 and below, as I have no exp with 4th.)
Ok, I'm going to be nice about this. Stay on your NW2 server.
You will enjoy Arena PvP in this game if you are lucky, at game launch. The way this game is shaping up, so far the great majority of us do NOT want open world PvP. Many have said, as they are telling you in this thread, they wouldnt have concerns if it was sectioned off to designated areas. DDO placed it under the bars.
And before you shout on your glassslipper tippytoes about DDO, "Hey seeee DDO allowed PvP --- see its the popularrrrrr!!!!", actually less than .05% of the population is seen pvpin at any given time.
Now I've got plenty of experience PvPin in DDO, and in many other games. I'm all for pvp designated areas or even pvp servers... but you ARE going to be the minority playing this game.... and thats not a bad thing, unless you think you are the anointed one that is...:D:rolleyes:
Sorry ill do what i want and indeed if there is open pvp you better change you name, especially if there is only one server . Simple advise friend, stop thinking you are the majority cause you are NOT. You are a carebear forum hugger and you think you are the majority, nope. Almost no pvper will post on forums, i explained that ealier, other stuff to do. I am just very very interested in this game and i don't want it to fail like you want it to fail, because obviously, you know F word nothing about mmorpg if you want it to be a F word coop game. Now this post is to F word again suggest systems, not to give your S word opinions about pvper etc etc or to tell me to stay home etc etc, i could care less of your emotional state etc etc.
Go do your own thread about how you hate pvp and how carebear you are and how important you are and how much you represent the majority and ill be glad to not post on it.
Cryptic did make City of Heroes? It had multiple servers.
CO and STO both had only one server with many shards.
As to pvp I would guess that 40 to 50 percent of mmo playerbase have enjoyed it at one time or another.
The problem is even folks that enjoy pvp do not agree on they type of pvp experience is best. I do not like FFA pvp, or Arena pvp. Scenario based pvp is fun for a while till the scenarios get old. The best pvp in my opinion and the guild i game with is faction based or realm vs realm. Realm vs Realm vs Realm will not work in this game. Faction based and guild based just might.
Daoc was my favorite game for pvp bar none. You were not forced into it and most did pvp weather it was infrequently or all the time depended on the player.
Cryptic only uses ONE server and their shard system does NOT SUPPORT Worldwide PvP before during and after Atari ownership!
Sometimes you have to shout it from the rooftops, as this is not even about if appropriate to the game or not specifically, it's simply not their way.
I'm sorry if this is not to your liking G, but I'm sure if you ask Cryptic in the same tone and manner here you've been replying to us in this thread, you'll get the response expected.
Take it as you will all. I've mentioned my opinions, and am here only to get up this knowledge in ya face, boyeeeee!
Sorry, had a Malibu's Most Wanted moment
Truly sorry if my tone affect your feeling, just like your other friend just before you. But as i mentionned before, this thread isnt about your emotion outburst etc etc, it was ment to talk about different systems that can make open pvp work properly. All you guy's are coming up with is bla bla bla im scared, i know s word about pvp so i don't want it. They use only 1 server ( like if you were F word part of the company and you knew what they will decide at the end, which is obviously not the case since you are neither an engineer, neither a CEO of anything or not even a coder ).
This thread is for pvper that will gently suggest different kind of systems that would potentially work in that kind of game. Now that you ' understood ' that i would reply to all your s word post, even if they make no sens or are totally carebear oriented, you will probably continue to say stuff like: ' Noo mannnn they only use 1 server, you can'T win, we carebear will have our s word coop game roarr roarr we are the majority roar oar'. Look i will be very honnest with you, if they would listen to people like you, the game would fail.
And BY THE WAY, changing the game from COOP to mmorpg was such a bright move i can't even explain you how stupid Atari were to make this game coop only. Now, from that wise of a choice, i personaly think they are wise enough to make it just like any other freaking mmorpg there is, AN OPEN WORLD PVP game with dedicated server for pvp.
Thank you, now if you have no system to propose for PvP, do not repost here.
Am i rude ? YES, go do your own thread, heres a good example of a title you could use: - I am scared of pvp, what argument could i have so there is no pvp in this game ?
Cryptic did make City of Heroes? It had multiple servers.
CO and STO both had only one server with many shards.
As to pvp I would guess that 40 to 50 percent of mmo playerbase have enjoyed it at one time or another.
The problem is even folks that enjoy pvp do not agree on they type of pvp experience is best. I do not like FFA pvp, or Arena pvp. Scenario based pvp is fun for a while till the scenarios get old. The best pvp in my opinion and the guild i game with is faction based or realm vs realm. Realm vs Realm vs Realm will not work in this game. Faction based and guild based just might.
Daoc was my favorite game for pvp bar none. You were not forced into it and most did pvp weather it was infrequently or all the time depended on the player.
Comments
Flagged On
- Killing flagged off people makes you "wanted" ("wanted" penalties vary by game)
- Killing flagged on people is okay
Flagged OffDaoc did quite well focusing on pvp but it wasn't forced upon people. You venture into the frontier there was realm vs realm pvp. It is what got me into pvp unfortunatly no game since has captured that imo. Of course it was not ffa pvp there were three realms at war with each other. Would this style work for Neverwinter probably not.
Faction based pvp might as long as folks can opt out of it if they wish.
reading further on no pvp was not an afterthought in Daoc i was in the alpha and beta one year of testing prior to the game releasing. The whole premise of the game were three sides at war in the frontier.
The server is a server 'farm'. Which is, in essence, a whole bunch of servers all inter-connected. Shards are farmed off across the servers available to even out the load.
It's a concept that's used pretty commonly for high-end websites, such as Youtube, BBC iPlayer etc, that have a pretty high-load and massive user-base to avoid crashing the site by having a single, central machine running everything. It makes sense, therefore, to adopt it for MMOs.
What I meant was everything else beyond the city walls. These small settlements re the refuge from dangerous wildlands.
That said, I am not against pvp at all. Only thing which I unsavory for me is the cities and areas behind walls being used to throw challenges on the streets and PK and backstabbing.
The areas outside are somewhat understandable as plaguelands would have bandits and outcasts with spellplague-mark (whatever its name was) but inside the city, inside walls, I can't seem to like it unless its a 'friendly brawl' to test strength in the tavern.
Open world pvp is usually when you can be attacked anywhere.
So for example, you are fighting a monster and are low on health, someone can jump behind you and start a battle with you (though players form guild which protect them from such rude behavior and take revenge). Apart from that, basically anywhere.
However to protect low level people, some steps are taken to keep the duels balanced. The classes have all to be balanced too and strictly solo-able.
Also this kind of pvp has to be ingrained in the game and lot of things need to be balanced around it.
Basically, its something dnd is not.
EDIT: It may look scary, but its kind of fun if game is based around that from ground up.
I hope that is possible in foundry. It will make the campaigns interesting.
There's guard in the city. Guard could whack murderer on sight. As for the lowbie ganking, trust me, if you become a murderer and get a 'red' status for example, ALOT of peoples will hunt you down and it will be a dangerous game to be a murderer in a role playing game. Imagine yourself having a little crew of 5-6 murderers going out killings a couple of newbies and then sudently being chased by 20 paladins in sight of retribution upon the evil to protect the life of the innocents! You have to trust the community a bit to enforce the law too, not all good pvper will be evils. If for example you are in my guild and someone assassinate you, you can be SURE that he will eat his socks and won't do the same mistake too many times. The more boundary, controls, limits you set in a game, the less it is fun and the less options you get.
We need to have faith in players a little bit more. While being a murderer wouldnt bring you any group to go the raids for example, you would isolate yourself from society, pretty much. That is why i asked about what SYSTEMs would you guy's see in place. The system is very important in an open world pvp game. It need to make sure everything is under control, without really setting huge fence to control all actions.
I personally see D&D like a decision free game, the pen and paper version that is. Why wouldn't it be the same for the computer game ?
Another example would be 'The Shadow Thieves' trying to claim a certain territory. but in that territory, there is a second thieving guild name 'the burglar'. If there is no open world pvp or guild pvp, what would happen ? Nothing, that roleplay wouldnt even exist. Limit, boundary, controls is a game/role play killer.
Maybe you see all this as a very chaotic scene, but you got to trust the community and there is a lot of options to make some place safe to play without having to care about player killer. For example, you and your guild are going to a dungeon to search for a treasur, who want to attack a fully buffed group running around and going to a dungeon ? And if that occur, then you shall need to find allies to eliminate the threat, and i am 100% sure it would be easy to do so.
Actually, No. No we do not. I have played in Open world PVP games, I have seen endless griefing of lowbies by high levels. I have been corpse camped for hours (finally logging out for the night) by higher levels just wanting to stroke their epeen. It got to the point I found a PVE server and just enjoyed the game.
A PvP fans ability to get off on griefing other players should not trump another players ability to have fun playing a game. ESP if the game is supposed to be based on D&D (Co-op based game since 1976ish).
With the LACK of a PVE server, it would be too skewed toward the PvP crowd, running off the people who did not like PvP.
As a note: In SWTOR beta we were assigned servers. I started out on a PvP one. When the betas finally gave us the choice of what server to play on - The PVE server filled up and the PVP server was complaining about a lack of players. I believe that most games are split pretty evenly if not biased toward PVE players. Cryptic must know this and will include a form of PVP that will not drive off the PVE fans.
/agreed
Games should be developed without any trust in players. If there is an exploit/bug/etc the players will abuse it. They will.
I would suggest a very good article quoted by truthseeker somewhere on the forums (arrgg... things are always lost when you look for them). It explains how previous mmorpgs failed just because they thought players won't do this, won't do that.
Don't be so scared sir. There will be PvE server that is 100% certain. We are talking about PvP server possibility. You don't have to no no no or fight over my ideas as i am trying to get the PvP community to have their own server. Your fight is already won, you will have your PvE server from the start of the game
Again, if you look at Champions Online and Star Trek Online, you will see that Cryptic does not have separate servers. What you are asking for is something that would cost them a lot of money as well as a design change.
This can not be an argument. If all they care about is money there is a huge problem ( Obviously they create game to get money but.. We dont play game to lose money, we play game to have fun, each of us do right ? ) , also, if they make it so both scenes have their little pieces of turf, they will end up making more money.
And as for design, you mean network infrastructure or game code infrastructure ? Because they are already talking about implementing PvP, so it is truly a zone restriction change, which is maybe what, 1 or 2 line of commands per maps / area ?
I am not asking for a second game. And anyhow they have engineers and coders that can make that possible.
While there are shards and instanced zones Cryptic does not have different servers (which is what you are asking for). They are going to implement PvP. This could be battlegrounds, arena, dueling, etc. The need for a Open World PvP Server is questionable at best. I believe I read somewhere that found that Battlegrounds and Arenas were actually where the bulk of PvP was taking place in other games.
Also in EVERY game where PvP becomes a prime factor the classes start getting nerfed and PVE suffers for it. Class A seems to be better than Class B - PVPers Rage and Class A gets nerfed.
Let the game be as close as possible to D&D. Let the Classes be as close as possible to the rule books. Let those who want to play a D&D MMO set in the forgotten realms do so. DO not pollute it because a few want to be able to gank lowbies.
Excuses me my friend but you make no sense at all. First of all, they are not owned by Atari any more so their might be a change of structure in the way they do things. Secondly PVPer do not pollute anyone. Right now PVPer arent raging, you are saying rage comments at PVPer. PVPer dont really gank lowbie as we are in search of competition/thrill, and i doubt even if you were a high level person that you would be any challenge for any of us. Also let me add this, people like YOU are ganking lowbie, because they can not do anything against player their level.
Also, BGs and Arenas aren't fun, there are too many limits to them. Now that is why there is a need for open world pvp, because PvPer aren't sheep and we don't want BGs.
And for your silly comments about us, i will ask you to stop polluting my post since you obviously don't know what you are talking about anyway and this post has nothing to do with you. I F*** word told you already that you have nothing to do here since you will have your PvE server so why would you keep complaining about PvPer ganking you non stop ? Not my problem if you have no talent in PvP and that you are frustrating at your past experience, just play in a PvE server and you won't suffer from your own lack of eyes-hand-brain coordination. And if you tell me i am trash talking, well you searched for it. You obviously are looking for a fight, but not a PvP fight huh ? Let's write each other a little poem about life and let's see who win the princess ? No thanks.
And by the way, we aren't a few. There's a lot of pvpers and trust me, the game devs know that fact, it isn't even to be argued.
And a hearty Good Morning to you!
First - Cryptic has always had the single server, even before Atari purchased them. There has not been any post to say they are changing things. Perhaps with PWE coming on, they will make a change for this game, but Champions Online and STO still have the same server setup.
I have not said one thing that was Raging. What I said in regards to Raging is that in EVERY PVP game that I have played, and I STRESS that it was EVERY game, when one class even remotely seems to have an advantage the screams for nerf are nearly legendary.
Ganking and Griefing lower level players is common in Open PVP worlds. This is a fact, hate that you want to ignore it and gloss over it, but it is a fact.
Yet usage reports show that Battlegrounds and Arenas are some of the most popular methods of PvP.
Again, I am fine with a game that has PVP, PVE, RP, RP-PVP servers. I choose the one I want and leave the ones I do not to the people who do want it. What I have pointed out to you repeatedly is that Cryptic currently does not use more than one server. Go play Champions Online or Star Trek Online to see how they have the servers set up.
I was corpse camped as a level 20 character by a level 50 one within my first week of WoW. I freely admit that I personally was unable to defend myself against them. I have played a few PVP only games (last one was earthrise). I am not great at it, but then it does not really interest me much either. In SWTOR I played in the Arena (huttball) or BG when I wanted to PVP. Also I brought that up as a response to your statement about us needing to TRUST players. No. No we do not.
See that is the best part of PVE - you can PVP when you want to.
There are many PVE players as well. There are many RP players (The RP servers filled up the first day in SWTOR btw). They are going to put PvP systems in the game, while I doubt they will be going open world PVP (and I thank them for that) I do think they will make a definite effort to make sure that there is some form of fun PvP that everyone can enjoy.
PvP does not need to be open world to exist in a game.
And on a side note, I do not believe I was personal in any post I have made, perhaps I should start to speak like an Elcor or HK47?
[pleasant toned] Have a nice Day!
My favorite race from that series to be honest.
Hhahahaa alright i must admit i have my own temper
<Orcish voice> Yuu uhv uh nuuce duuh tuu, unluss yuh cruss muh puth uguun !
I was so looking forward to them fighting in the last game.
saved yourself a crappy ending.
I don't know about that. If it is "crappy" just because it is not a happy ending then I have a feeling I might have disagreed. If for other reasons then well....
*shrug*
More the fact that it made no sense, did not really have your choices reflected, and was a rip off of another game. But some did like it though.
- Temporary immunity upon respawning; effect cancelled upon attacking. (Gives them time to teleport back to town. The effect cancelling thing is for if they want to jump right into PvP again).
- Allowing the option to respawn back to town without penalties. (Going back to your corpse as the only way of respawning is the most stupid thing to do in an open world pvp)
- Flagging frequent offenders as "wanted"/red name, giving them certain penalties for a duration, such as being killed on sight by town guards. (Another stupid thing in open world PvP is when a frequent griefer can just as easily teleport back to town and be safe from PK hunters).
- Some sort of server wide system where players can look up frequent offenders - a Bounty Board of some sorts.
- Open PvP only on select maps/areas. (Usually, the open PvP maps are the higher exp maps so there's this risk-reward thing if you want to venture there. Otherwise, you can go to the regular maps with regular exp).
And these are just a handful of examples. I'm not completely advocating for open world PvP; all I'm pointing out is there are options of making it possible without being a cause of griefing. If nothing else, the instanced dungeons with your group of 5 will definitely be PvP freeOk, I'm going to be nice about this. Stay on your NW2 server.
You will enjoy Arena PvP in this game if you are lucky, at game launch. The way this game is shaping up, so far the great majority of us do NOT want open world PvP. Many have said, as they are telling you in this thread, they wouldnt have concerns if it was sectioned off to designated areas. DDO placed it under the bars.
And before you shout on your glassslipper tippytoes about DDO, "Hey seeee DDO allowed PvP --- see its the popularrrrrr!!!!", actually less than .05% of the population is seen pvpin at any given time.
Now I've got plenty of experience PvPin in DDO, and in many other games. I'm all for pvp designated areas or even pvp servers... but you ARE going to be the minority playing this game.... and thats not a bad thing, unless you think you are the anointed one that is...:D:rolleyes:
Cryptic only uses ONE server and their shard system does NOT SUPPORT Worldwide PvP before during and after Atari ownership!
Sometimes you have to shout it from the rooftops, as this is not even about if appropriate to the game or not specifically, it's simply not their way.
I'm sorry if this is not to your liking G, but I'm sure if you ask Cryptic in the same tone and manner here you've been replying to us in this thread, you'll get the response expected.
Ya had to pick the two-post example. Very well
Part 1
Part 2
Take it as you will all. I've mentioned my opinions, and am here only to get up this knowledge in ya face, boyeeeee!
Sorry, had a Malibu's Most Wanted moment
Exactly....I am a pretty big PVP fan myself. But...open world PVP only works ....oddly enough....in an open world ala UO. When you have the population divided up and off in instances, and there are multiple instances of zones to swap to and such.....well ....it just doesnt fit.
I wont even go into the whole DnD Game and how imbalanced the classes are for PVP. (strictly speaking of 3.5 and below, as I have no exp with 4th.)
Sorry ill do what i want and indeed if there is open pvp you better change you name, especially if there is only one server
Go do your own thread about how you hate pvp and how carebear you are and how important you are and how much you represent the majority and ill be glad to not post on it.
Thank you bye.
CO and STO both had only one server with many shards.
As to pvp I would guess that 40 to 50 percent of mmo playerbase have enjoyed it at one time or another.
The problem is even folks that enjoy pvp do not agree on they type of pvp experience is best. I do not like FFA pvp, or Arena pvp. Scenario based pvp is fun for a while till the scenarios get old. The best pvp in my opinion and the guild i game with is faction based or realm vs realm. Realm vs Realm vs Realm will not work in this game. Faction based and guild based just might.
Daoc was my favorite game for pvp bar none. You were not forced into it and most did pvp weather it was infrequently or all the time depended on the player.
Truly sorry if my tone affect your feeling, just like your other friend just before you. But as i mentionned before, this thread isnt about your emotion outburst etc etc, it was ment to talk about different systems that can make open pvp work properly. All you guy's are coming up with is bla bla bla im scared, i know s word about pvp so i don't want it. They use only 1 server ( like if you were F word part of the company and you knew what they will decide at the end, which is obviously not the case since you are neither an engineer, neither a CEO of anything or not even a coder ).
This thread is for pvper that will gently suggest different kind of systems that would potentially work in that kind of game. Now that you ' understood ' that i would reply to all your s word post, even if they make no sens or are totally carebear oriented, you will probably continue to say stuff like: ' Noo mannnn they only use 1 server, you can'T win, we carebear will have our s word coop game roarr roarr we are the majority roar oar'. Look i will be very honnest with you, if they would listen to people like you, the game would fail.
And BY THE WAY, changing the game from COOP to mmorpg was such a bright move i can't even explain you how stupid Atari were to make this game coop only. Now, from that wise of a choice, i personaly think they are wise enough to make it just like any other freaking mmorpg there is, AN OPEN WORLD PVP game with dedicated server for pvp.
Thank you, now if you have no system to propose for PvP, do not repost here.
Am i rude ? YES, go do your own thread, heres a good example of a title you could use: - I am scared of pvp, what argument could i have so there is no pvp in this game ?
Ya loved Daoc too mate