thevirus2011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4Arc User
Class Balance, this is a very tough subject. You guys really need to think about this before you throw it out there. This class is meant to be a tank. The players that are playing it currently at level 70 with a TIL of 2,600+ have invested a lot of AD and time to get their builds tweaked so that they don't get 1 shoted by the twin Scorps in ELOL or any other Epic Dungeon and it still happens all the time.... ITF is sooo powerful. It has been the difference between a Pug completing and/or Failing ESOT, ELOL, VT, MG too many times to count. I would really think about these nerf's before you guys cut and slash. We are getting tired of investing a lot of time and effort into our characters to have to rework or just set them aside. If you want us to have more options, boost or modify the Powers we aren't using like you have discussed with the HR & SW. My HR is still sitting at level 63 from the level increase because I didn't want to play trapper so it sat on the bench... There are many other games out there to play. Let's not alienate all of your loyal players, please.
I am someone who cares and loves this game.... but there are others
Nothing said about Enforced Thread in notes. That change on test was a disaster.
Tide Of Iron change still can be done differently. If it is too powerful for the rest of group, make it 50% effective for them. No need to remove group utility from this skill.
ITF somehow had to be fixed.
Combat advantage companions cumulative effect nerfed, i guess if someone using them on GF side, expect drop in damage as well (consider CW feedback on it, it must be something).
I see that you acknowledged some of the feed back so I thought I would add mine.
I agree that ITF should not be based on a dynamic stat, but I feel like dropping steel defense from 6 seconds is not needed. While the GF can get the daily back up quickly in many cases, it is not guaranteed to be up every 6 seconds and the 3.5 seconds does not allow enough time to cast Villains and do much of anything else besides go back behind the shield.
Many of the recent class balancing changes seem to be aimed at preventing near max level toons from being too OP, however it has a very significant impact on mid level toons. I have put in the time and money to make my support toons good enough but now I feel like my 3K toons are no longer effective and now I have to either be very specifically matched with other characters for each and every situation or spend more money to rework them. Maybe this is the intent, but the time required to find that exact mix adds to the time needed to complete the run and at 3K it is not an insta win. I don't want an insta win but I also do not have hours to dedicate to a single CN run so the end result is I don't bother.
Maybe instead of scaling down everyone because some people found the insta win button you could find a way to scale the content to the groups.
Who took the decisions to make this changes? a monkey with a top hat?
I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class.
Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL
Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story
Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go.
Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???.
You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions:
1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that 2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!!
You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do
Finally, two things:
1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy
2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless.
I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
It seems to me that whenever we hear about a "CLASS BALANCE", we should all just take for granted that a toon will be made weaker, less desirable and the player will have to invest in some kind of 'alternate means' (buy something) to remain playable at the same level as previously configured...
Which (again to me) just shows what a waste of money it is to invest on building your character because as soon as you do someone comes along and nurfs it and makes the investment(s) next to worthless.
NOT EVERYONE PLAYS IN A GROUP! So for those debuffs effecting group dynamics it is totally meaningless and ultimately disadvantageous to a solo player.
Instead of decreasing the viability of existing characters in currently existing areas, for those people who think "it's too easy" , make more challenging new areas for them, not make existing areas harder for the current crowd?
For the people who complain that PVP characters are improperly balanced how about making some of these changes only applicable in PVP - not PVE? There are already separate sets of armor for PVP and PVE so how about building those balancing restrictions into the PVP armor and tuning PVE armor to the equivalent of wearing a paper bag if someone takes it into PVP?
It seems instead of pursuing the path of least resistance, people asking for and making changes are seeking the most offensive and most deleterious methods they can think of for solo players and those not willing or able to spend a lot of money to buy the things they need to stay competitive after these changes.
-anyway that's my opinion.
Agree. Not sure why u guys are killing support classes in PVE that are just doing their jobs. Minor tweaking maybe, but not this. If u r attempting to balance PVP this is an EPIC FAIL. What a mess. Was kinda interested in the other class changes, but not this cesspool.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Latest notes state that KC will only do additional 50% to players.
I don't PvP but I think this will make a few ppl happier
but unfortunately it looks like Tide of Iron still getting made useless
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revan06100Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Who took the decisions to make this changes? a monkey with a top hat?
I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class.
Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL
Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story
Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go.
Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???.
You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions:
1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that 2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!!
You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do
Finally, two things:
1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy
2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless.
I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
Thank you for this, very agreed...
I'd like to add that YOU DEVS, need to stop scaling the game according to what people ask in PVP... Less than 10% of the people play PVP, i have myselg, but i don't anymore... If you want to make things better for both PVE and PVP players, then create a specific build for them, stop mixing everything...
I for one am glad to see a move away from being nothing more than a buff bot; my only concern is that Cryptic won't adequately compensate us in other areas. My own GF is the oldest character on my account and I'm rather fond of him, but he's built for DPS and I haven't invested the amount of time and money that others have in their GFs. The largest insight I can provide, though, is this: don't sell your GF short.
Many of you are underestimating how badly focusing solely on Defense has hurt your characters' other secondary stats. My GF is a mere 2.2-2.3 GS, with zero stronghold boons (since I run in a 2-person guild). He's built for DPS because I love the idea of DPSing with a sword and board, so he's full Conq build with my secondaries invested in Power, ArP, and so forth. Crit's a little low on his itemization and I run a Holy Avenger enchant for some extra party goodness. He is far from ideally specced or geared or companioned out. He's still come close to Paingiver more than once and has broken 20 million damage in skirmishes and small instances like Kessel. That's without using Knight's Challenge or Anvil, by the way - I tend to use Lunging Strike, Frontline Surge, and Enforced Threat or ITF when I'm expected to tank. Unfortunately I can't in good conscience bring him into more competitive content because I can only queue in the full tank slot due to how the queue system works, when really he's more of a "durable DPS" and really only fine as the only tank in lighter content. That said he's a lot tougher than my better-geared GWF and there are several instance runs where I'd love to bring him along (I'm looking at you, Fire Scorpions).
Now what Cryptic should do if they want to completely remove the buff bot style of play is to offer up an enchant/runestone/companion exchange, similar to the one they offered for artifacts when the Lostmauth set was reined in. People have spent money to get their GFs to where they are today and to completely negate that investment is blatantly unfair, no matter how badly the mechanics need to be brought in line.
I wouldn't complain about an option to queue as tank or DPS, or to have your queue slot based on your spec instead of your class, but that's a personal preference, and not one that's nearly as necessary as some sort of compensation for real-world investment into an obsolete gearing paradigm.
I for one am glad to see a move away from being nothing more than a buff bot; my only concern is that Cryptic won't adequately compensate us in other areas. My own GF is the oldest character on my account and I'm rather fond of him, but he's built for DPS and I haven't invested the amount of time and money that others have in their GFs. The largest insight I can provide, though, is this: don't sell your GF short.
Many of you are underestimating how badly focusing solely on Defense has hurt your characters' other secondary stats. My GF is a mere 2.2-2.3 GS, with zero stronghold boons (since I run in a 2-person guild). He's built for DPS because I love the idea of DPSing with a sword and board, so he's full Conq build with my secondaries invested in Power, ArP, and so forth. Crit's a little low on his itemization and I run a Holy Avenger enchant for some extra party goodness. He is far from ideally specced or geared or companioned out. He's still come close to Paingiver more than once and has broken 20 million damage in skirmishes and small instances like Kessel. That's without using Knight's Challenge or Anvil, by the way - I tend to use Lunging Strike, Frontline Surge, and Enforced Threat or ITF when I'm expected to tank. Unfortunately I can't in good conscience bring him into more competitive content because I can only queue in the full tank slot due to how the queue system works, when really he's more of a "durable DPS" and really only fine as the only tank in lighter content. That said he's a lot tougher than my better-geared GWF and there are several instance runs where I'd love to bring him along (I'm looking at you, Fire Scorpions).
Now what Cryptic should do if they want to completely remove the buff bot style of play is to offer up an enchant/runestone/companion exchange, similar to the one they offered for artifacts when the Lostmauth set was reined in. People have spent money to get their GFs to where they are today and to completely negate that investment is blatantly unfair, no matter how badly the mechanics need to be brought in line.
I wouldn't complain about an option to queue as tank or DPS, or to have your queue slot based on your spec instead of your class, but that's a personal preference, and not one that's nearly as necessary as some sort of compensation for real-world investment into an obsolete gearing paradigm.
Set you queue to private and invite a real tank after that, this would solve your problem...
I for one am glad to see a move away from being nothing more than a buff bot; my only concern is that Cryptic won't adequately compensate us in other areas. My own GF is the oldest character on my account and I'm rather fond of him, but he's built for DPS and I haven't invested the amount of time and money that others have in their GFs. The largest insight I can provide, though, is this: don't sell your GF short...
I wouldn't complain about an option to queue as tank or DPS, or to have your queue slot based on your spec instead of your class, but that's a personal preference, and not one that's nearly as necessary as some sort of compensation for real-world investment into an obsolete gearing paradigm.
I think I agree with most of this. My first toon was GF when I started playing 2 years ago. And I'm playing the GF again - having fun in almost all PVE content, trying different builds. Which is the point, I think, for me in the game. Never been a fan of PVP - too much investment and specific build focus needed to be successful.
I just want to have fun with the combat, as well as doing professions and getting new "free" content earned from events (really want another blue fire sled in the Winter event!)
The main lesson I've learned - don't spend money on the game if you think you are investing in a long term uber toon. You will be disappointed - not you may, or might - you WILL. In just 2 years I've lost count of how many endgame uber things have been nerfed. Black Ice armor, Level 60 Artifacts, Bonding stones, the original BiS armor pre-IWD, and on and on.
Mod 10 looks to be nerfing BiS equipment again. And for Mod 11 - who knows. Maybe nerf Transcendant Enchants (remember when Perfect was BiS?)
The takeaway is - the target in the game is never fixed - it is always, always, ALWAYS moving. That's how Cryptic makes it's $$$. They set new targets to scrape it out of PVP die hards, botters and others who must have the latest/greatest BiS faster than anyone else.
Interesting thing, I noticed on accident when I was playing some charaters, take a couple of characters who are at roughly the same level with roughly the item level for gear (or even take all gear off) and one at a time walk them up to a cliff and over the edge.
I've done this several times with different characters all at or about the same level and all at or about the same item level...
I've got Clerics and Wizards who will suffer about 46K to 58K damage when they hit the bottom and a GF that takes 156K damage when it hits... My friggin' "tank" takes nearly double the damage from the same kind of fall, than most of my other characters - what kind of sense does this make?
I realize my "test" isn't scientific, nor my discovery infalable, but the results appeared to be consistent every time I tried it...
PLEASE - Someone else try this and let me know if they get similar results, or if this is all just some kind of bad dream or a seeriously flawed experiment.
DD~
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
That certainly answers why there is such a great disparity between the damage a support character like a DC takes -vs- a striker character like a GF takes, and something I didn't consider... Thanks
this was my 2nd mmo, I got into swtor first but then I found this game around 2 years ago and it was 1 stop shop... game over, this is what ive been playing. ive got a lvl 70 for each class and by far the most entertaining is this gf. but some of the new nerfs like steel defense... are you serious... that all the gf has, idk... ive never played wow, might try that out
Good gods, how long will quests like Ballad of bahumut take now? 20 minutes? Seems like they took any skill, and if it had a an upside at high rank, they reined it in. Sorry, more like kicked them in the teeth. So now we'll have HP we should've already had, and even weaker all around. Oh, Cleave got better. Thanks. And a range of 12' average will really make a big difference too. All of this because of the overpowereing of Bonding runestones.
Who took the decisions to make this changes? a monkey with a top hat?
I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class.
Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL
Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story
Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go.
Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???.
You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions:
1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that 2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!!
You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do
Finally, two things:
1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy
2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless.
I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
Couldn't agree more. I'm at 3.3 IL after a lot of work. What's funny is they say they wanted to rework skills that don't get used, but didn't say anything about kneebreaker or other worthless skills on the tree, or ones I have never used. Instead they seem to have pushed for cleave and frontline surge, which I really don't see as tank moves. Maybe frontline surge is a little better, but I really don't want to waste respect tokens trying to tweak the GF again, and figure out a "good" build. I wasted too many when they changed the tree last time.
> @brandonsunner said: > Who took the decisions to make this changes? a monkey with a top hat? > > I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class. > > Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL > > Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story > > Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go. > > Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???. > > You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions: > > 1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that > 2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!! > > You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do > > Finally, two things: > > 1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy > > 2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless. > > I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee TNX GOD 1 man who now what he say omg 100% with you man i hop to hear you and dont go to dstroy the GF even more.
soooo... Whats next? First u nerf the haste and bubble... now the GF SW HR... Now u have the TR GWF CW... Cant wait till u guys just mess up the game even more....
@Norbit, they pushed the bonding runestones. Which is now the problem, when people get the 255% spike on stats. They can go to each class and take away advantages, but they don't seem to want to fix the bonding problem. I still use the Goat augment, because I can use 2 defensive slots for eldritch runes, and I figure by the time I start investing in perfect bondings, they'll finally nerf it. Lowering and changing the GF buffs won't change that. People are still going to be taking huge amounts off bosses in 1 hit. I'd love to have the Bullette Pup, but at 12 million, yeah right. And what's the point, with 3 defense runes, and 3 x rank 12 eldritch, that's still only 136% of the stats....so basically one of the most expensive augments still can't hold up vs the Bonding and its 255%.
Either make the bosses harder and compensate for people who are over 3k item level, or get rid of the bonding proc doing it 3x 85%. All they have to say is 2 count(170%), and it would solve a lot. The game has allowed people to become more powerful, and yet you can be LVL 70 with item level 1500, or 4200. And the dungeons don't scale for that. Add in the 255% from bondings, and you get the melting effect. People spiking to 60k+ on stats due to having bonding runestones won't stop because they nerf ITF. It's suddenly going to go from very easy to finding a group, to very hard again for GF's. No one is going to want a half HAMSTER DPS, with more HP, softer D, and buffs that've been neutered, over someone who's straight DPS.
I know the developers won't read this. I had to search to even find the "news" on Arc's news tab, as it isn't even listed on the log in announcements. Yeah, they really want feed back.
@Norbit, they pushed the bonding runestones. Which is now the problem, when people get the 255% spike on stats. They can go to each class and take away advantages, but they don't seem to want to fix the bonding problem. I still use the Goat augment, because I can use 2 defensive slots for eldritch runes, and I figure by the time I start investing in perfect bondings, they'll finally nerf it. Lowering and changing the GF buffs won't change that. People are still going to be taking huge amounts off bosses in 1 hit. I'd love to have the Bullette Pup, but at 12 million, yeah right. And what's the point, with 3 defense runes, and 3 x rank 12 eldritch, that's still only 136% of the stats....so basically one of the most expensive augments still can't hold up vs the Bonding and its 255%.
Either make the bosses harder and compensate for people who are over 3k item level, or get rid of the bonding proc doing it 3x 85%. All they have to say is 2 count(170%), and it would solve a lot. The game has allowed people to become more powerful, and yet you can be LVL 70 with item level 1500, or 4200. And the dungeons don't scale for that. Add in the 255% from bondings, and you get the melting effect. People spiking to 60k+ on stats due to having bonding runestones won't stop because they nerf ITF. It's suddenly going to go from very easy to finding a group, to very hard again for GF's. No one is going to want a half **** DPS, with more HP, softer D, and buffs that've been neutered, over someone who's straight DPS.
I know the developers won't read this. I had to search to even find the "news" on Arc's news tab, as it isn't even listed on the log in announcements. Yeah, they really want feed back.
Bulette pup is worth 4-6m at best. People don't seem to understand that sometimes people post stuff on the AH at absurd prices to rip each other off. Pretty much any value it has is from being a rare drop in a lockbox that's no longer in circulation and it only holds that value because the owlbear pup is in the choice pack that the bulette drops from.
A single r12 bonding runestone is worth ~4m AD because of the cost to make it.
The cost is one thing. The outcome of 255% vs 136% max stats from companion vs augment is the problem. Why waste the money on an augment? Or waste money building eldritch rank 12's(mine are only rank 10's), when you know you can double the stats almost, going the bonding/companion route vs eldritch/augment. It sounded like they might fix it, but instead they made it so now the companion procs once for the max(upto 255%), not needing to do it once for each stone. It was certain companions that had certain skills that would activate 3 times quickly, now it just needs to be once. Until that changes, boss's will go down quickly, regardless of what they do to GF. The changes seem to say they don't see the Bondings as the problem. Even though that's what gets people to 60k+ on stats.
The cost is one thing. The outcome of 255% vs 136% max stats from companion vs augment is the problem. Why waste the money on an augment? Or waste money building eldritch rank 12's(mine are only rank 10's), when you know you can double the stats almost, going the bonding/companion route vs eldritch/augment. It sounded like they might fix it, but instead they made it so now the companion procs once for the max(upto 255%), not needing to do it once for each stone. It was certain companions that had certain skills that would activate 3 times quickly, now it just needs to be once. Until that changes, boss's will go down quickly, regardless of what they do to GF. The changes seem to say they don't see the Bondings as the problem. Even though that's what gets people to 60k+ on stats.
Just seems like a small, hidden discussion.
You use augments because they're cheap. Not everything in this game is meant to be BiS.
Actually, my first ioun stone wasn't cheap. It WAS BiS. And then new augments came out months later that had defense slots....and then the bondings proc'd to 255% total. You seem fixed on the money part because I mentioned the bulletee was expensive. Wouldn't matter if it was 2 mil or 12 mil. What's the point if it's on a different level than the bondings.
My point was Bondings have caused the instability, not augments. Or GF skills. Seems like they're making a lot of money with people making them, and now they're trying to "fix" skills because people are insanely too strong. But not the bondings. Seems like that's backward as hell.
Actually, my first ioun stone wasn't cheap. It WAS BiS. And then new augments came out months later that had defense slots....and then the bondings proc'd to 255% total. You seem fixed on the money part because I mentioned the bulletee was expensive. Wouldn't matter if it was 2 mil or 12 mil. What's the point if it's on a different level than the bondings.
My point was Bondings have caused the instability, not augments. Or GF skills. Seems like they're making a lot of money with people making them, and now they're trying to "fix" skills because people are insanely too strong. But not the bondings. Seems like that's backward as hell.
BiS changes. And relative to bonding runestones your ioun stone was cheap. Your ioun stone did not cost 12 million AD.
And you could easily reach over 100% DR even with augments. Combined with DC synergy you did not need bonding runestones for things to get out of hand. People could switch back to ioun stones and still melt things if they didn't nerf ITF.
I really don't care about the ITF nerf, it's the supposed lunging strike recharge time getting upped 50%, it's steel defense dropping from 6 secs to 3.5, it's enforced threat only hitting 10 guys now, it's changing tide of iron, it's changing anvil, it's changing KC, etc If it had just been ITF, I wouldn't care, and it would probably give incentive to take it off and try other builds. Just seems they're now admitting a problem with people's strength, and pointing the finger at class after class without saying it's the bonding causing the biggest spike. BiS changes, yes. That's why I didn't spend heavy on anything after my Ioun stone went obsolete. 1.2 mil way back, plus 500k upgrade to blue, and then 90 coins/1 mil to purple, is not really cheap. That's why I'm not too concerned over just starting to get dragon flight ingredient's with my guild. In 2 weeks they will introduce something better. I get that, and have only been "fooled" a few times, I tried to learn my lesson. To me, it's totally different when you start talking about coming out with better equip in an update, changing a companion/augment, enchantments, etc VS changing an entire class to rectify problems.
I think you destroy the last GF's in game after this patch. Sad i like play my gf but after this "sick balance" i finish my game. I understand decrease dmg bonus, set boundaries but 30%? All players reaches this bonus after 1 month play. Steel defence now allows me use Enforced and ITF on orcus, after patch i probably use only 1 skill (if i pursue).
i tell you now i see only few GF. All time in city someone looking good gf for pt. After this patch a lot of people will not feel pleasure of the game and stop play GF.
Comments
I am someone who cares and loves this game.... but there are others
Tide Of Iron change still can be done differently. If it is too powerful for the rest of group, make it 50% effective for them. No need to remove group utility from this skill.
ITF somehow had to be fixed.
Combat advantage companions cumulative effect nerfed, i guess if someone using them on GF side, expect drop in damage as well (consider CW feedback on it, it must be something).
— (The unwritten rule)
I agree that ITF should not be based on a dynamic stat, but I feel like dropping steel defense from 6 seconds is not needed. While the GF can get the daily back up quickly in many cases, it is not guaranteed to be up every 6 seconds and the 3.5 seconds does not allow enough time to cast Villains and do much of anything else besides go back behind the shield.
Many of the recent class balancing changes seem to be aimed at preventing near max level toons from being too OP, however it has a very significant impact on mid level toons. I have put in the time and money to make my support toons good enough but now I feel like my 3K toons are no longer effective and now I have to either be very specifically matched with other characters for each and every situation or spend more money to rework them. Maybe this is the intent, but the time required to find that exact mix adds to the time needed to complete the run and at 3K it is not an insta win. I don't want an insta win but I also do not have hours to dedicate to a single CN run so the end result is I don't bother.
Maybe instead of scaling down everyone because some people found the insta win button you could find a way to scale the content to the groups.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class.
Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL
Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story
Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go.
Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???.
You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions:
1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that
2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!!
You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do
Finally, two things:
1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy
2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless.
I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
I don't PvP but I think this will make a few ppl happier
but unfortunately it looks like Tide of Iron still getting made useless
I'd like to add that YOU DEVS, need to stop scaling the game according to what people ask in PVP...
Less than 10% of the people play PVP, i have myselg, but i don't anymore...
If you want to make things better for both PVE and PVP players, then create a specific build for them, stop mixing everything...
Many of you are underestimating how badly focusing solely on Defense has hurt your characters' other secondary stats. My GF is a mere 2.2-2.3 GS, with zero stronghold boons (since I run in a 2-person guild). He's built for DPS because I love the idea of DPSing with a sword and board, so he's full Conq build with my secondaries invested in Power, ArP, and so forth. Crit's a little low on his itemization and I run a Holy Avenger enchant for some extra party goodness. He is far from ideally specced or geared or companioned out. He's still come close to Paingiver more than once and has broken 20 million damage in skirmishes and small instances like Kessel. That's without using Knight's Challenge or Anvil, by the way - I tend to use Lunging Strike, Frontline Surge, and Enforced Threat or ITF when I'm expected to tank. Unfortunately I can't in good conscience bring him into more competitive content because I can only queue in the full tank slot due to how the queue system works, when really he's more of a "durable DPS" and really only fine as the only tank in lighter content. That said he's a lot tougher than my better-geared GWF and there are several instance runs where I'd love to bring him along (I'm looking at you, Fire Scorpions).
Now what Cryptic should do if they want to completely remove the buff bot style of play is to offer up an enchant/runestone/companion exchange, similar to the one they offered for artifacts when the Lostmauth set was reined in. People have spent money to get their GFs to where they are today and to completely negate that investment is blatantly unfair, no matter how badly the mechanics need to be brought in line.
I wouldn't complain about an option to queue as tank or DPS, or to have your queue slot based on your spec instead of your class, but that's a personal preference, and not one that's nearly as necessary as some sort of compensation for real-world investment into an obsolete gearing paradigm.
I just want to have fun with the combat, as well as doing professions and getting new "free" content earned from events (really want another blue fire sled in the Winter event!)
The main lesson I've learned - don't spend money on the game if you think you are investing in a long term uber toon. You will be disappointed - not you may, or might - you WILL. In just 2 years I've lost count of how many endgame uber things have been nerfed. Black Ice armor, Level 60 Artifacts, Bonding stones, the original BiS armor pre-IWD, and on and on.
Mod 10 looks to be nerfing BiS equipment again. And for Mod 11 - who knows. Maybe nerf Transcendant Enchants (remember when Perfect was BiS?)
The takeaway is - the target in the game is never fixed - it is always, always, ALWAYS moving. That's how Cryptic makes it's $$$. They set new targets to scrape it out of PVP die hards, botters and others who must have the latest/greatest BiS faster than anyone else.
I've done this several times with different characters all at or about the same level and all at or about the same item level...
I've got Clerics and Wizards who will suffer about 46K to 58K damage when they hit the bottom and a GF that takes 156K damage when it hits... My friggin' "tank" takes nearly double the damage from the same kind of fall, than most of my other characters - what kind of sense does this make?
I realize my "test" isn't scientific, nor my discovery infalable, but the results appeared to be consistent every time I tried it...
PLEASE - Someone else try this and let me know if they get similar results, or if this is all just some kind of bad dream or a seeriously flawed experiment.
Falling damage is a % of your health.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Couldn't agree more. I'm at 3.3 IL after a lot of work. What's funny is they say they wanted to rework skills that don't get used, but didn't say anything about kneebreaker or other worthless skills on the tree, or ones I have never used. Instead they seem to have pushed for cleave and frontline surge, which I really don't see as tank moves. Maybe frontline surge is a little better, but I really don't want to waste respect tokens trying to tweak the GF again, and figure out a "good" build. I wasted too many when they changed the tree last time.
> Who took the decisions to make this changes? a monkey with a top hat?
>
> I've been a D&D player for 9 years, i've played all chars and races but i'm more of a support/tanky guy so i always choose Paladin (or Cleric), when i found out that this game existed i got exited and i wanted to make a Paladin but at the time it didnt exists in the game (i'm playing since the release of mod 3) so i started with the GF which to me was the Defender Class.
>
> Now... the reason why im upset AND offended is because I'M NEITHER A TANK OR A SUPPORT CHAR NOW AND APPARENTLY I NEVER WILL
>
> Back in the day, GF was "ok", with a decent built (AND SKILL, something you ppl killed, and now is all about the IL and how much you can spend on the game) you could tank and even solo dungeons, but when OP was released, the GF died, you all can say whatever, but that's TRUE, even so, there's a few people that remained with the GF (To me, the OP is just a disgrace in this game and a mock to D&D, Low-geared Pally Unkillable it's not equal to fun), now, 10k Defense and 10k Deflect and still you can get killed by the Twin Scorpions easily, but for the OP... well... that's another story
>
> Like many others, i've invested, not money, but EFFORT AND TIME, even knowing that i'm playing for NOTHING, cause the game ACTUALLY DOESNT REWARD OR COMPENSATE YOUR EFFORT AT ALL, but, this game is like a Stormy Relationship, you hate it for all the right reasons but still you dont quit cause you just gave too much to let it go.
>
> Why ANYONE would think that a TANK needs to do DPS?, Defender's dmg it's about contundency, "i'm going to hit you once, now, kill me if u can puss", their role is to DEFEND, cause they are DEFENDERS, and btw, DoT? DoT? ARE YOU SERIOUS???.
>
> You want to ballance the GF? ok... here are some basic suggestions:
>
> 1: You care about Dmg, remake the Swordmaster built, That's the DPS built so work on that and people will choose that
> 2: You care about Res, remake the Iron Vanguard built, that's the most common used built, you know why?... i cant hear you... YOU KNOW WHY??? EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY... cause this is Defender Char... AND THAT'S THE DEFENDER'S BUILT!!!!!!
>
> You people, are supposed to make the game fun for us and profitable for you, but why would i spend money on a game that doesnt give me a good class at least slightly near to the D&D game?, not even a class that do what it's meant to do
>
> Finally, two things:
>
> 1: Someone said that not everyone plays in a party, and that's true, i personally dislike being in a party, BUT, the game has been forcing you to BE IN A PARTY, when you reach lvl 70, there's not much solo action solo, so, IF i'm forced to be in a party, IF i'm a Support/Defender Char, IF my role in the party is to prenvent them from taking dmg, IF my role is to built threat enough so mobs only pay attention to me, IF my role as a char is to have the most DR i can so i can actually do all the other stuffs, why removing the party buff's is going to make the GF more playable? when RIGHT NOW, i CANT do all those things that im supposed to do, when you have all the threat modifiers and a pet can steal aggro from you, you know something is wrong, when you have 120k+ HP, all the buffs to rise your DR and still get killed in a dungeon, you know something is wrong, but you, decided to take most of the few things that made the char somehow worthy
>
> 2: Seems to me that neither of you actually play this game or care enough about it cause if u do, you'll notice that 90% of the changes and the explanation for those changes are completely useless.
>
> I know you probably arent gonna read this but i have to say it, sorry for the grammar, english is not my first language.
Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee TNX GOD 1 man who now what he say omg 100% with you man i hop to hear you and dont go to dstroy the GF even more.
Either make the bosses harder and compensate for people who are over 3k item level, or get rid of the bonding proc doing it 3x 85%. All they have to say is 2 count(170%), and it would solve a lot. The game has allowed people to become more powerful, and yet you can be LVL 70 with item level 1500, or 4200. And the dungeons don't scale for that. Add in the 255% from bondings, and you get the melting effect. People spiking to 60k+ on stats due to having bonding runestones won't stop because they nerf ITF. It's suddenly going to go from very easy to finding a group, to very hard again for GF's. No one is going to want a half HAMSTER DPS, with more HP, softer D, and buffs that've been neutered, over someone who's straight DPS.
I know the developers won't read this. I had to search to even find the "news" on Arc's news tab, as it isn't even listed on the log in announcements. Yeah, they really want feed back.
A single r12 bonding runestone is worth ~4m AD because of the cost to make it.
Just seems like a small, hidden discussion.
My point was Bondings have caused the instability, not augments. Or GF skills. Seems like they're making a lot of money with people making them, and now they're trying to "fix" skills because people are insanely too strong. But not the bondings. Seems like that's backward as hell.
And you could easily reach over 100% DR even with augments. Combined with DC synergy you did not need bonding runestones for things to get out of hand. People could switch back to ioun stones and still melt things if they didn't nerf ITF.
If it had just been ITF, I wouldn't care, and it would probably give incentive to take it off and try other builds. Just seems they're now admitting a problem with people's strength, and pointing the finger at class after class without saying it's the bonding causing the biggest spike. BiS changes, yes. That's why I didn't spend heavy on anything after my Ioun stone went obsolete. 1.2 mil way back, plus 500k upgrade to blue, and then 90 coins/1 mil to purple, is not really cheap. That's why I'm not too concerned over just starting to get dragon flight ingredient's with my guild. In 2 weeks they will introduce something better. I get that, and have only been "fooled" a few times, I tried to learn my lesson. To me, it's totally different when you start talking about coming out with better equip in an update, changing a companion/augment, enchantments, etc VS changing an entire class to rectify problems.
Sad i like play my gf but after this "sick balance" i finish my game.
I understand decrease dmg bonus, set boundaries but 30%? All players reaches this bonus after 1 month play.
Steel defence now allows me use Enforced and ITF on orcus, after patch i probably use only 1 skill (if i pursue).
i tell you now i see only few GF. All time in city someone looking good gf for pt. After this patch a lot of people will not feel pleasure of the game and stop play GF.
This is shot in the players knee.