@kreatyve 80% of these comments are from people who don't even play a GF but instead just wish what they want done to the class, the other comments are people going back and fourth not even talking about proper nor concise feedback on the GF. Can you please stop this.
I can't go through and remove every comment by people who don't play the class. As long as it's on topic and not flaming or breaking other forum rules, they have as much right as anyone to voice their opinion.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
@kreatyve 80% of these comments are from people who don't even play a GF but instead just wish what they want done to the class, the other comments are people going back and fourth not even talking about proper nor concise feedback on the GF. Can you please stop this.
true, but amenar already see which users write at all classess forums and can mitigate them hopefully. As stated everything will continue after mod 10 so i am calm for now. Looks like pvp burst was adressed, pve ultra damage rellying on bugs was too (or will be at some point). I see some things overnerfed but in this case we dont need to wait another year or more for changes so we will see. Only big problem that can happen that we get another Orcustype boss and with nerf to steel defence, it will decimate gf tanking population
I think nerfed steel defense will push protector tree compared to others, since capstone and some other feats do make a difference. Till now anyone could chain dalies and tank orcus doing so, now you have to rethink your build and what it shall do...in case you are not BIS, since BIS GF can chose whatever they want to
I think nerfed steel defense will push protector tree compared to others, since capstone and some other feats do make a difference.
Till now anyone could chain dalies and tank orcus doing so, now you have to rethink your build and what it shall do...in case you are not BIS, since BIS GF can chose whatever they want to
i not so sure if protector will be new "unkillable" tree for GF like Paladin have
maybe there will be more with swordmaster vs iron warrior changes, since IV is horrible now
@kreatyve 80% of these comments are from people who don't even play a GF but instead just wish what they want done to the class, the other comments are people going back and fourth not even talking about proper nor concise feedback on the GF. Can you please stop this.
I can't go through and remove every comment by people who don't play the class. As long as it's on topic and not flaming or breaking other forum rules, they have as much right as anyone to voice their opinion.
@kreatyve Yes because talking about CW's on a GF thread is "on topic", talking about how OP's and GWF's need a damage buff on a GF preview thread is "on topic". I am not asking for you to go through every comment and edit it with "lets keep the personal to a minimum, thanks" " do not discuss moderation issues, leave that up to the mods" I am asking keep the people who are having conversations not even pertaining to the subject at hand, and people that are going into debates of damage that don't even have anything to do with bugs, feedback or anything constructive of the such to be removed, because I find it beyond ridiculous that I need to go find a needle in a haystack and scavenge my way through responses to actually see some real feedback and bug submissions and research from people who actually play the GF. It also gets annoying that people who don't even play this class feel the need to "voice their opinions" on a class they don't even play on. They then comment on the threads to cry nerfs, instead of an informed response on the class and a true understanding of how it is played and can be played. Instead of playing the class for a few months and obtaining knowledge the just see "Official GF Feedback Thread" and go "Hey, lets see if i can rally up enough people to get Knights Challenge nerfed" I see the same names from the same people over and over and over again on these threads having nothing to do with the subject. Thats all I ask, is for more focus on eliminating these "no my point is the right way and only way" and "burst damage to high nerf nerf nerf" and more of a "this power doesn't do what is specified". Thank you kreatyve.
@vinceent1 A tone down wasn't a good option to focus the problem. This was @amenar and the developers way of temporarily fixing the problem. Leaving GF's in a coma, if you will. Yeah the class still is decent, but no longer up to par with the OP if you get what I mean. But even more so, not focusing at problems at hand or the bigger picture of things like the VM bug where you are stunned and dazed(even though you used up action points, and the buff is active), is a very simple bug that multiple people on this thread commented on. The fact that that wasn't even touched upon yet is very interesting to me. Problems from the beginning of the game not even touched upon. Multiple comments on cast times being too long, powers still bugged, ITF Temp HP too low, being constantly interrupted and "you cannot use that power", to powers being buffed that really won't change the minds of players like "Line Breaker Assault". Heck you can go back into page 3 and see so many of the things I have said 90% of the things I have said have not even been touched upon by the developers. All that was said was just a "some of these issues we are aware of and we plan on touching upon them in 10 years"
As stated by @amenar "There are some great ideas in here, many which align with our plans, but not all of those plans will be enacted this module. We have longer term plans to help with some of the larger disparities between specs (both Paragon Path, and Feat tree), but they're bigger than what will go into this module. While I can certainly understand that fixing everything right now would be preferable, the reality is that changes are going to be somewhat incremental"
Things that have turned into a long over due change or known to many from the developers as a "long standing issue" that has caused many players to switch to its big brother and greater counterpart the OP. (Oathbound Paladin)
Now I'm not going to type away here and say @amenar didn't do a great job, It's great that they finally changed (some) aspects of the GF. But nerfing into the fray, making range increased by 1' for moves, and sugarcoating things doesn't really do much for the class. These changes alone have caused the GF to be very unclear and turned the class into a fog as of now. Infact not only will there be more DPS classes than support roles for PvE, but now more than ever we will see a huge decline and deficit in GF's because of this. Instead of focusing on key issues like feat placement, feat buffing, bugs with the class, bugs with powers and feats, we are given some very small incremental changes that have negatively affected the game. That doesn't do anything to help the class at all, and we receive the same usual answer where we are left in the dark to rot for another 6 months is not right either.
I hope people including developers read this and seriously take into consideration classes need constant care and need to be looked after or things like this will go horribly wrong. You cannot just expect people to replace defense slots like azures for radiants over night spend millions of AD and literally change their whole characters like this without a a complete certainty of where things should be. Which path to take. This goes on to the fact for every class, we should not wait so long to see changes in classes as this really impacts player base as they are forced to play 1 path that is viable, and everybody is the same! So I do appreciate the beginning to the issues, but leaving us in a coma was not the smartest idea id say.
Now I'm not going to type away here and say @amenar didn't do a great job, It's great that they finally changed (some) aspects of the GF. But nerfing into the fray, making range increased by 1' for moves, and sugarcoating things doesn't really do much for the class. These changes alone have caused the GF to be very unclear and turned the class into a fog as of now. Infact not only will there be more DPS classes than support roles for PvE, but now more than ever we will see a huge decline and deficit in GF's because of this. Instead of focusing on key issues like feat placement, feat buffing, bugs with the class, bugs with powers and feats, we are given some very small incremental changes that have negatively affected the game. That doesn't do anything to help the class at all, and we receive the same usual answer where we are left in the dark to rot for another 6 months is not right either.
Amenar proved very responsive to player feedback in the other class two threads. The difference here appears to be that almost no one bothered to show up on Preview to test, and almost no one submitted constructive feedback. At best, most posters here were focusing on fighting against a windmill and getting ITF un-nerfed, rather than trying to take a broader perspective.
i agree that amenar work is a little bit weird (from the HR forum perspective). at first he increase damage on some encounters, then fixing , polishing trapper feats and only very recently (close to m10) he announced archery feat changes, (which will have a little time to test on preview) so its very confused, but overall i am somehow calm we are getting to good spot, he is aware of problems at general a we are already waiting for years
i will only repeat myself, nerf to anvil of doom is unnecesarry if you consider all other nerfs, its solid source burst damage and without it we are getting to the point that TRs rule pvp again and more than ever. /although observe them nerfed later should be top forum experience/
Now I'm not going to type away here and say @amenar didn't do a great job, It's great that they finally changed (some) aspects of the GF. But nerfing into the fray, making range increased by 1' for moves, and sugarcoating things doesn't really do much for the class. These changes alone have caused the GF to be very unclear and turned the class into a fog as of now. Infact not only will there be more DPS classes than support roles for PvE, but now more than ever we will see a huge decline and deficit in GF's because of this. Instead of focusing on key issues like feat placement, feat buffing, bugs with the class, bugs with powers and feats, we are given some very small incremental changes that have negatively affected the game. That doesn't do anything to help the class at all, and we receive the same usual answer where we are left in the dark to rot for another 6 months is not right either.
Amenar proved very responsive to player feedback in the other class two threads. The difference here appears to be that almost no one bothered to show up on Preview to test, and almost no one submitted constructive feedback. At best, most posters here were focusing on fighting against a windmill and getting ITF un-nerfed, rather than trying to take a broader perspective.
i agree that amenar work is a little bit weird (from the HR forum perspective). at first he increase damage on some encounters, then fixing , polishing trapper feats and only very recently (close to m10) he announced archery feat changes, (which will have a little time to test on preview) so its very confused, but overall i am somehow calm we are getting to good spot, he is aware of problems at general a we are already waiting for years
i will only repeat myself, nerf to anvil of doom is unnecesarry if you consider all other nerfs, its solid source burst damage and with it we are getting to the point that TRs rule pvp again and more than ever. /although observe them nerfed later should be top forum experience/
Yeah I'm just saying, its a good start, but they better get onto it quickly before it becomes an issue that lasts months on end with no real update whatsoever. The coma that I have called it.
To the people complaining about there not being enough feedback from those who go on preview to do some testing, do keep in mind that it's all mostly range increase, damage increase, cooldown increase and such. There are no changes to the mechanics of the class, unless you count LBA. Latest change to take effect that I can see in the notes is EF damage being blockable. I won't bother with that one.
The only thing that really changed mechanically in any sense would be Steel Blitz or AoD, and that's kind of "eh, whatever." They are overall nice changes, but there is very little testing that needs to be done to make a judgement on them.
Guardian Fighter: Feat: Wrathful Warrior: Reworked implementation to be much more reliable.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: No longer locks you in place during activation.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Challenge: Now only increases your damage against other player by 50%, instead of 100%. Unchanged against critters.
Guardian Fighter: Line Breaker Assault: Activation time has been reduced to 0.7s, down from 1s.
Guardian Fighter: Line Breaker Assault: Now Dazes targets for 2s.
Guardian Fighter: Villain's Menace: Activation time reduced from 1.8s down to 1.6s, and it can now combo into other powers 0.4s early. This means if you cast Villain's Menace and immediately start activating other powers, you will be able to start them as early as 1.2s after activation.
Guardian Fighter: Weapon Master's Strike: Reverted the changes that increased damage to the primary target and caused you to lock on to the primary target.
Did these changes not make it into preview yet? Just wondering as ITF is not castable on the the run.
Feedback: damage resistance buffs Guardian fighter has the following skills that provide increasing of damage resistance: [Linging strike], [Villain's menace], [Iron warrior], [Bull charge], [Line breaker assault]. And I would like to write some feedback about effectiveness of increasing defence.
In our days a lot of guardian fighters have about 60-70% defence. And if I am not mistake there is a cap of defence about 80% and character can't have more defence than this cap.
The situation is that when guardian fighter has about 60-70% defence then damage resistance skills just does not work and does not increase defence anymore because of this cap.
What do you think maybe it will be good to change effects of these skills to damage mitigation? To let well equipped tanks use their defence skills
those special effects on those powers is to help the new player to reach the cap 80%. They are useful of new player point of view.
Feedback: damage resistance buffs Guardian fighter has the following skills that provide increasing of damage resistance: [Linging strike], [Villain's menace], [Iron warrior], [Bull charge], [Line breaker assault]. And I would like to write some feedback about effectiveness of increasing defence.
In our days a lot of guardian fighters have about 60-70% defence. And if I am not mistake there is a cap of defence about 80% and character can't have more defence than this cap.
The situation is that when guardian fighter has about 60-70% defence then damage resistance skills just does not work and does not increase defence anymore because of this cap.
What do you think maybe it will be good to change effects of these skills to damage mitigation? To let well equipped tanks use their defence skills
those special effects on those powers is to help the new player to reach the cap 80%. They are useful of new player point of view.
What? In what world does skills having a intended bonus only apply for low level characters? Does the damage buffs for the GWF and healing buffs for the CW need to be toned down for higher level characters? Right now the only play style that is penalized by its main stat is the defender. The GF more than others thanks to what was stated by the OP. I thought the OP's suggest was masterful.
We get penalized for defense and everyone hates when we do damage... What in the world do these people want?
Good point. Maybe those skills should give temp HP. Iron Warrior could debuff enemies instead of buffing the player. Or anything that would make those skills still provide the increase in survivability, minus the dimished effect for well-advanced players. If that can't be done, maybe give them some stun/knockback/whatever ability (with decreased effect for PVP).
Feedback: Knight's Valor I know Knight's Valor (KV) is not involved in the changes of the coming mod. I like to still write my suggestions here.
Why do I dislike how KV works? The reason I want a change for KV is that KV is boring to use. One mostly just needs to activate KV once in a dungeon. That is to say I do not care when and where to use this skill. I would like KV is fun to use. What is the mechanism I would like? 1. Like most encounters, after using KV, it immediately goes to cool down and damage resistance buff lasts for 6 seconds. Make damage resistance buff a portion of damage resistance (50%) of GF. An interaction of defense and KV is more interesting than a flat number. 2. The area of KV should be reduced. I suggest an area around GF for 20. 3. Rework the 4th tier feat, Brawling Warrior, in protector tree: increasing area of KV to 30, and the percent of damage resistance to 60% or even 70%. The change allows protector to build around KV.
Why do I even suggest such nerf after the ITF nerf? KV is certainly a powerful skill of GF, which has the great utility for the party. But I don't think DPS classes should rely on this power to mitigate their damages all the time in a whole dungeon run. As a GF, I would like to have freedom to use more powers. With KV, I feel like I just lose one encounter slot.
Feedback: Knight's Valor I know Knight's Valor (KV) is not involved in the changes of the coming mod. I like to still write my suggestions here.
Why do I dislike how KV works? The reason I want a change for KV is that KV is boring to use. One mostly just needs to activate KV once in a dungeon. That is to say I do not care when and where to use this skill. I would like KV is fun to use. What is the mechanism I would like? 1. Like most encounters, after using KV, it immediately goes to cool down and damage resistance buff lasts for 6 seconds. Make damage resistance buff a portion of damage resistance (50%) of GF. An interaction of defense and KV is more interesting than a flat number. 2. The area of KV should be reduced. I suggest an area around GF for 20. 3. Rework the 4th tier feat, Brawling Warrior, in protector tree: increasing area of KV to 30, and the percent of damage resistance to 60% or even 70%. The change allows protector to build around KV.
Why do I even suggest such nerf after the ITF nerf? KV is certainly a powerful skill of GF, which has the great utility for the party. But I don't think DPS classes should rely on this power to mitigate their damages all the time in a whole dungeon run. As a GF, I would like to have freedom to use more powers. With KV, I feel like I just lose one encounter slot.
An area of 20 will make Kv useless. I agree with you that a protector spec looks subpar against tactician/conqueror.
Suggestion: make protector path able to build a lot more threat. A capstone rework that allows to build threath on damage taken or based on % of defence. This will reward a defensive build. A tank able to pull aggro consistently even in a bis party will make him welcome even with poor damage and moderate buffs. And, btw, aggro is the primary tank job.
Feedback: Knight's Valor I know Knight's Valor (KV) is not involved in the changes of the coming mod. I like to still write my suggestions here.
Why do I dislike how KV works? The reason I want a change for KV is that KV is boring to use. One mostly just needs to activate KV once in a dungeon. That is to say I do not care when and where to use this skill. I would like KV is fun to use. What is the mechanism I would like? 1. Like most encounters, after using KV, it immediately goes to cool down and damage resistance buff lasts for 6 seconds. Make damage resistance buff a portion of damage resistance (50%) of GF. An interaction of defense and KV is more interesting than a flat number. 2. The area of KV should be reduced. I suggest an area around GF for 20. 3. Rework the 4th tier feat, Brawling Warrior, in protector tree: increasing area of KV to 30, and the percent of damage resistance to 60% or even 70%. The change allows protector to build around KV.
Why do I even suggest such nerf after the ITF nerf? KV is certainly a powerful skill of GF, which has the great utility for the party. But I don't think DPS classes should rely on this power to mitigate their damages all the time in a whole dungeon run. As a GF, I would like to have freedom to use more powers. With KV, I feel like I just lose one encounter slot.
An area of 20 will make Kv useless. I agree with you that a protector spec looks subpar against tactician/conqueror.
Suggestion: make protector path able to build a lot more threat. A capstone rework that allows to build threath on damage taken or based on % of defence. This will reward a defensive build. A tank able to pull aggro consistently even in a bis party will make him welcome even with poor damage and moderate buffs. And, btw, aggro is the primary tank job.
Regards
You are probably right, an area around 25 to 30 could be better. Yes, aggro is important. But with KV many DPS classes can hold aggro without dying. Orcus is the only exception that the shield of GF is a must to mitigate damage. In most cases, people only care about how fast the party can clean the mobs and do not care how well aggro is managed. From this perspective, damage mitigation is favored than aggro control.
Comments
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Till now anyone could chain dalies and tank orcus doing so, now you have to rethink your build and what it shall do...in case you are not BIS, since BIS GF can chose whatever they want to
maybe there will be more with swordmaster vs iron warrior changes, since IV is horrible now
@vinceent1 A tone down wasn't a good option to focus the problem. This was @amenar and the developers way of temporarily fixing the problem. Leaving GF's in a coma, if you will. Yeah the class still is decent, but no longer up to par with the OP if you get what I mean. But even more so, not focusing at problems at hand or the bigger picture of things like the VM bug where you are stunned and dazed(even though you used up action points, and the buff is active), is a very simple bug that multiple people on this thread commented on. The fact that that wasn't even touched upon yet is very interesting to me. Problems from the beginning of the game not even touched upon. Multiple comments on cast times being too long, powers still bugged, ITF Temp HP too low, being constantly interrupted and "you cannot use that power", to powers being buffed that really won't change the minds of players like "Line Breaker Assault". Heck you can go back into page 3 and see so many of the things I have said 90% of the things I have said have not even been touched upon by the developers. All that was said was just a "some of these issues we are aware of and we plan on touching upon them in 10 years"
As stated by @amenar "There are some great ideas in here, many which align with our plans, but not all of those plans will be enacted this module. We have longer term plans to help with some of the larger disparities between specs (both Paragon Path, and Feat tree), but they're bigger than what will go into this module. While I can certainly understand that fixing everything right now would be preferable, the reality is that changes are going to be somewhat incremental"
Things that have turned into a long over due change or known to many from the developers as a "long standing issue" that has caused many players to switch to its big brother and greater counterpart the OP. (Oathbound Paladin)
Now I'm not going to type away here and say @amenar didn't do a great job, It's great that they finally changed (some) aspects of the GF. But nerfing into the fray, making range increased by 1' for moves, and sugarcoating things doesn't really do much for the class. These changes alone have caused the GF to be very unclear and turned the class into a fog as of now. Infact not only will there be more DPS classes than support roles for PvE, but now more than ever we will see a huge decline and deficit in GF's because of this. Instead of focusing on key issues like feat placement, feat buffing, bugs with the class, bugs with powers and feats, we are given some very small incremental changes that have negatively affected the game. That doesn't do anything to help the class at all, and we receive the same usual answer where we are left in the dark to rot for another 6 months is not right either.
I hope people including developers read this and seriously take into consideration classes need constant care and need to be looked after or things like this will go horribly wrong. You cannot just expect people to replace defense slots like azures for radiants over night spend millions of AD and literally change their whole characters like this without a a complete certainty of where things should be. Which path to take. This goes on to the fact for every class, we should not wait so long to see changes in classes as this really impacts player base as they are forced to play 1 path that is viable, and everybody is the same! So I do appreciate the beginning to the issues, but leaving us in a coma was not the smartest idea id say.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
i will only repeat myself, nerf to anvil of doom is unnecesarry if you consider all other nerfs, its solid source burst damage and without it we are getting to the point that TRs rule pvp again and more than ever. /although observe them nerfed later should be top forum experience/
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Latest change to take effect that I can see in the notes is EF damage being blockable. I won't bother with that one.
There isn't much of anything to really test.
We get penalized for defense and everyone hates when we do damage... What in the world do these people want?
Maybe those skills should give temp HP. Iron Warrior could debuff enemies instead of buffing the player.
Or anything that would make those skills still provide the increase in survivability, minus the dimished effect for well-advanced players.
If that can't be done, maybe give them some stun/knockback/whatever ability (with decreased effect for PVP).
I know Knight's Valor (KV) is not involved in the changes of the coming mod. I like to still write my suggestions here.
Why do I dislike how KV works? The reason I want a change for KV is that KV is boring to use. One mostly just needs to activate KV once in a dungeon. That is to say I do not care when and where to use this skill. I would like KV is fun to use.
What is the mechanism I would like?
1. Like most encounters, after using KV, it immediately goes to cool down and damage resistance buff lasts for 6 seconds. Make damage resistance buff a portion of damage resistance (50%) of GF. An interaction of defense and KV is more interesting than a flat number.
2. The area of KV should be reduced. I suggest an area around GF for 20.
3. Rework the 4th tier feat, Brawling Warrior, in protector tree: increasing area of KV to 30, and the percent of damage resistance to 60% or even 70%. The change allows protector to build around KV.
Why do I even suggest such nerf after the ITF nerf? KV is certainly a powerful skill of GF, which has the great utility for the party. But I don't think DPS classes should rely on this power to mitigate their damages all the time in a whole dungeon run. As a GF, I would like to have freedom to use more powers. With KV, I feel like I just lose one encounter slot.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Ty for reading
I agree with you that a protector spec looks subpar against tactician/conqueror.
Suggestion: make protector path able to build a lot more threat. A capstone rework that allows to build threath on damage taken or based on % of defence. This will reward a defensive build.
A tank able to pull aggro consistently even in a bis party will make him welcome even with poor damage and moderate buffs.
And, btw, aggro is the primary tank job.
Regards
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Make it appear like bond of virtue. That's a good idea. Just a circle, without the hideous FX on players.