So I did my dailies in both Bryn Shander as well as Lonelywood then I ran around in Bryn Shander for an additional 30-40 minutes or so gathering relics with a normal trowel while under the effects of the archaeologist potion (I think thats what it was called) and 1 piece of gear for the 25% chance at double relics. In that time I managed to get about 4500 Voninblod. I got a handful of Common quality relics, about half as many Uncommon quality and half again as many Rare quality.
I'm assuming that between relic hunting, daily quest rewards and Fangbreaker we should be getting a reasonable amount of Voninblod to keep out armor empowered without too much strain. I'm running on the assumption that Fangbreaker will reward Voninblod in much the same way that Kessel's rewards Black Ice.
The only thing I find a little disconcerting is how the equipment available for Tarm Bars is actually slightly stronger than Elemental Dragonflight when fully empowered. I would have expected it to be a bit weaker than it is. There is also the gear which drops from HE's that required 7000 V-blod and 3 O-resin to restore, this is stronger than Ele-Dragonflight which is to be expected. I have no problem with the power level of the Restored equipment, as I said I simply wasnt expecting the Tarm Bar gear to be quite so strong.
As I've stated in a previous post I don't see empowering armor to so great of a hassle that it will be ignored. That is, unless a person maintains an army of playable alts. In which case, (once again) as I've stated before these persons will simply have a choice to make: Devote the time or reduce the number of playable alts to reasonable level. Which in my opinion is a perfectly reasonable choice to have to make in an MMO.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
According to my calculations each Voninblod put into a piece of gear gives 2.4 seconds worth of combat time. So for 2 hours worth of combat it will take 3,000 Voninblod. 3,000 V-blod is 60 Common quality relics, 30 Uncommon relics, 12 Rare relics or 6 Epic relics. This amount of relics will take 30+ minutes to gather. I'd also like to add that when you click on a relic to loot it you enter combat for 1-2 seconds. So even when your utilizing 30 minutes of your time to empower 2 hours worth of combat time your losing a few seconds for every relic your looting. Consider also that you will have at least 1 piece of gear you use while relic hunting, possibly all 3. Then you also have a 4 piece set of gear with higher EF resists which you will want to keep empowered.
So all in all we're talking about the possibility of at least 7 individual pieces of gear per character that you will want to keep at least mostly empowered. This could all be moot depending on how much V-blod we are awarded in Fangbreaker, if the amount therein is substantial.
After doing my dailies again today I noticed that the V-blod you receive from quests is 1. One. Singular. Thats a bit absurd all things considered, it should certainly be increased to at least 50 if not more.
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
^ Also worth noting, this is coming from the one person who's been saying "its not so bad".
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
^ Also worth noting, this is coming from the one person who's been saying "its not so bad".
Hearing this further reinforces my view... I'll engineer around it as much as possible. Especially having looked at the stat's on the CW gear. Can't just swap out piece for piece with your Drowcraft. Stat's aren't matched (and poorly chosen too).
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Feedback GIGANTIC ENCHANTMENT: I think it should have two stats only. The ones with three always feels kinda "meh".
I agree the 3-stat ones have always felt "meh", because they gave the same total as 2-stat, so they were harder to use for no real benefit.
Do people still feel that way now that 3-stat gives more total stats than 2-stat? (Note this change affects all the 3-stats, including existing ones -- not just Giant.)
No i dont, for example black ice over brutals, i dont mind getting a bit of more recovery, RP cost will be the same , it will help my cooldowns and ap gain. I just dont use 3 stat enchants on companions because the stats wont be granted by bondings (or at least they still dont on Dragon server).
It would be supper dupper amazing if you allow us to "cook" our enchants stats, the diversity would be amazing and fun. For example to create a R7 of critic as main stat, power secondary and recovery as terciary, we would need a r6 azure 2 r5 radiants and 2 r5 silvery's and for example lets keep the 2 marks of potency. And for the name, very simple: NImble enchantment of the powerfull and focused warrior(ok, this sounds terrible, but you get the point im sure the devs team can get a far better name).
1 otherthinh, any plans for black ice? black ice has been since Curse of IWD launch always present in top tier equipment, is it being forgoten now? i also hing the reparation kits are really expensive, i didnt purchase any but if it's 1 per armour piece, im not even touching it. If you made like a improved relic armour maube from rank 6 black ice crafting that would have double resistance to detrioration, it would be awesome.
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
^ Also worth noting, this is coming from the one person who's been saying "its not so bad".
Exactly. I'd hate to see what could be an interesting and useful game mechanic get flamed into non-existence because it was implemented poorly on the back of the empowerment system.
There is still some discovery to be made when I gain access to Cold Run and Fangbreaker Island. If the amount of V-blod attainable in a run of FBI (haha) is considerable enough to provide me with at least 75% of my empowerment needs I'm OK with it.
If the system gets too grindy, no one will like it. They will complain, it will go the way of BI Empowerment and Mod10 will forever be remembered as a failure to learn from previous mistakes. But if you can balance it, if you can make the numbers work then people will remember the actual content instead of just one failed system.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
In Bryn you can see the relics in a distance and can easily farm there. In Lonelywood, there are quite a few relics lying around. I find that if ye be farming ona mount, you will pass quite a few of them as they blend in with the forest. You can gather more if ya travel on foot.
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
^ Also worth noting, this is coming from the one person who's been saying "its not so bad".
Given past experience, I would estimate that the only consideration being given will be whether to sell Relic Packs in the Zen Store or include them as possible drops in the next Lockbox. If the figures/estimates given are accurate then there is no way it can become anything other than a massive grind for anyone who chooses to keep up the empowerment in their new gear and an impossible grind for anyone aiming to do this for more than one character. This will be neither interesting nor useful to most players.
Come on Devs - please give us some response here - surely the point of previewing this content is that there's a chance to tweak it. Please find some way to make this alt friendly and not obsoleting Unified Elements and Black Ice Crafting.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Frankly, the fact that (perhaps finally fixed) 2xProfessions has been scheduled to run right before the module release that is designed to make rank 4 and 5 Black Ice Shaping obsolete is kind of a kitten move. One event ran with the promised rank 5 upgrade discount not in effect, and the next one was cancelled due to an exploit, so many players have not even been able to benefit from the change to make BIShaping more affordable before seeing it sidelined for a new mechanic.
Not to say BI-upgraded gear is permanently useless, and the stat allocations on the new gear on the whole look worse than current options in many cases, but then you need to consider that requiring players to obtain and maintain multiple gear sets for different content is enforcing buying more bag space or bank space and VIP for access to the bank from anywhere.
Hi everybody -- sorry to take so long to get back to you.
I definitely hear what people are saying about the potential frustrations of the empowerment system. That's not a thing I can change, though (although I can, and I have, conveyed everyone's feedback). I always hate having to say stuff like that -- "sorry, can't change it" is such a lame post. My apologies.
However, I absolutely can look into number tuning. I think some of the analysis is a bit off, so let me take you through what we are aiming for, how the system works, and then you guys can let me know if we are hitting the mark (or if you think the mark is way off -- keeping in mind I can't just nuke the whole system, though!).
First, let me say right off that we don't want keeping your gear up to be a huge burden. Like any currency, Voninblod will be tight at first, but once you've taken care of all the one-time expenses, it shouldn't be too bad. So let's talk about the ongoing expenses.
I think archangelzorak01 gave the most thorough analysis (thanks aaz!), so let me riff off that. Your earn rate of about 6,000 VB per hour (without buffs) is pretty close to what we are seeing here. However, your upkeep rates are higher than I'd expect. You get 6 hours of combat time when you completely fill a gear piece, and that costs 6,000 VB for the chest and 4,200 for the other pieces. So if you have all 4 pieces (and remember not everyone will -- this gear is super-hard to get -- lots of people will just have the boots) you'll need 3,100 VB per combat hour for the full set.
But a combat hour is a lot less than a regular hour. It seems like a ton of time is in combat, but think back to those Overload enchantments that lasted 8 hours -- it seemed like forever. (In fact there was at one point a bug where they stopped ticking down, and a lot of people didn't notice). I've been counting on 1 combat hour = 2 play hours -- I think for most players it's more like 1 = 3 or even more, but for people doing heavy dungeon running 1 = 2 is probably closer to the mark. So that's 1,550 VB per play hour that you need (again, assuming a full set of gear).
The goal is that while you are running the zone, you'll make a certain amount from "normal play" (mostly from doing HEs and digging any relic nodes you happen across). Right now that amount is supposed to be about 2,000/hour. This should be more than enough even for people with a full set of gear. However, if it isn't, you can focus on relic hunting, and make that 6,000/hour. But that should just be if you need catch-up. Has anyone tried it out and seen how often they need to break and just relic hunt? Again, *in theory* that should rarely if ever happen, but of course something could be off -- so please let us know!
A few other points: * We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets? (Also note that you can only *wear* one set at a time, so even if you maintain multiples, your VB needs won't go up. But of course beckylunatic is quite right about the inventory pressures, which is why we are not pushing for multiple sets to be a thing.) * We have noticed (as valwyrn points out) that it's much easier to see relics, or to reach the ones you see, on some maps than others. We've tried to tune the relic density to account for that (so, for example, the number of relics per square foot is higher on Lonelywood than it is on Cold Run). Let us know if you think one map is much easier to farm than another -- our goal is to make them all about the same, so that you can be happy hunting relics on whatever map you happen to be on. * @clonkyo1: the nodes have specific places where they spawn, but not all nodes will be up at any given moment. So, for example, a map might have 100 possible spawn points, 50 of which are set to be "on". If you use one node, now there are 49 left, so the server picks one of the remaining 51 at random and turns it on (right away, iirc). So waiting at one spot for a node to re-appear is not a good tactic (as intended, from a design point of view!). As for the purple relics, they only have a chance to show up if you have the purple trowel (the logic there was that with the purple ice pick, you knew it was working because you'd see the increased amount of black ice -- but if all the purple trowel did was change drop rates for the different relic types, you'd never be sure it was working. So there's a small chance of getting a purple relic -- around 5%, I believe -- just to let you know "yes, the purple trowel actually does something").
Here is how i see the multiple sets of gear working out for me. 1) I want 2x drow pieces for when i run PoM or Edemo because that madness reduction is really really nice. 2) Obviously I am going to want enough everfrost resistance to get into FBI,(4 pieces possibly, relic boots and 3x tradebar pieces) how however many pieces of gear/potions/stuff that requires (if i need to hold potions instead of gear that is the exact same problem for inventory management. 3) 2x Dusk pieces is BIS right now for pretty much all classes because that 1k power/defense and 5k HP while in a party is worth a lot more than having 2x adamant pieces instead. 3) if i am running content that doesn't need everfrost resistance I am going to be using other gear if the stats are better (or better distributed). so this might include the drow gear mentioned above, or i might have 2x of something else (like adamant)
So this totals up to a possible 10 different armor items in some combination of helm/arms/armor/feet. i'll be wearing 4 of them at any given time, but that leaves 6 in my pack and i have 4 pieces of pvp gear because i need tenacity. And like i said before, everfrost potions, 3 different kinds of relics that i need to be able to hold at one time (4 slots needed for 4 kinds of relics if i get that purple trowel and 1 spot for the trowel, though i guess that replaces the white/green trowel, still takes a slot though). I am probably missing new consumables or something from the new mod because i have not played too much of it.
and about that purple trowel. The purple Icepick from IWD was understandably a good deal. you got 3x as much Black ice in return, so a 300% return on your time, which is very important to many people, they will happily pay 1000 zen to spend so much less time grinding black ice. Does the Purple trowel giving a 5% chance to get a purple relic offer the same 300% return on time? I have no idea how the purple trowel will be obtained, but if it is by paying 1000 zen and you don't get an equivalent return as the purple black ice pickaxe then i highly doubt i will be interested in paying for it
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Hi everybody -- sorry to take so long to get back to you.
I definitely hear what people are saying about the potential frustrations of the empowerment system. That's not a thing I can change, though (although I can, and I have, conveyed everyone's feedback). I always hate having to say stuff like that -- "sorry, can't change it" is such a lame post. My apologies.
I think archangelzorak01 gave the most thorough analysis (thanks aaz!), so let me riff off that. Your earn rate of about 6,000 VB per hour (without buffs) is pretty close to what we are seeing here. However, your upkeep rates are higher than I'd expect. You get 6 hours of combat time when you completely fill a gear piece, and that costs 6,000 VB for the chest and 4,200 for the other pieces. So if you have all 4 pieces (and remember not everyone will -- this gear is super-hard to get -- lots of people will just have the boots) you'll need 3,100 VB per combat hour for the full set.
From my visits to the Preview server I would have to question just how 'super-hard' this empowered gear is to get hold of. Unless things are changed dramatically when things go live on the 16th, then equipping a character with three pieces of Frostborn gear is going to be anything but 'super-hard' as it can be picked up off the Tradebar Store for a total of 210 Tradebars (head=65, chest=85, feet=65). While there is probably a higher tier of empowered gear available from running Fangbreaker Island, even the readily available Frostborn set is going to need lots of VB to keep it powered up.
A few other points: * We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets? (Also note that you can only *wear* one set at a time, so even if you maintain multiples, your VB needs won't go up. But of course beckylunatic is quite right about the inventory pressures, which is why we are not pushing for multiple sets to be a thing.)
While there wont be a need to maintain multiple sets of empowered gear, people will probably want to hang onto and keep using some of their existing gear. While it wont be the case for everyone, I know I will be hanging onto at least some of my Drowcraft gear. Two of my characters have Shadow Demon companions. Having three pieces of Drowcraft or Dusk gear awards the wearer with Underdark Mount & Companion Affinity. With the Shadow Demon that results in the cooldown of its Active Bonus being reduced from 30 seconds to just 20. While it is not exactly game breaking, that is something I would quite like to retain and is certainly something I want to still have available for running existing dungeons and skirmishes. So slots in my always 'never enough room' inventory will be occupied by one set or the other. Other Underdark Companions and Mounts may also offer Bonus improvements that people will want to retain. Is this something you took into consideration ?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
* We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets?
People who PvE and PvP probably need at least two gear sets. You can PvE in your PvP stuff, but it's probably not optimal statwise and it doesn't have PvE-oriented bonuses either. PvP gear = no EF resist in particular. But PvE gear = no tenacity, so you have to change it for PvP (or be miserable). I'm personally happy to see more accessible tenacity gear (for VIP players, at least), but this is a big reason some have been saying tenacity should not be on gear at all but a state applied to players while they are in PvP.
The more bonuses you introduce that are only useful in specific types of content (Drowcraft was all about demon resistance, now there's Everfrost), the less people will want to keep one set for all purposes. Players aren't likely to totally stop running Demogorgon just because there's a new dungeon in town. They're also going to feel forced into Epic Temple of the Spider to get the most valuable salvage in the least time with the proposed changes in that department. And the other thing with this is that in any content where EF resist is not a concern, many players will not want to be running down their charged gear, so they'll change it (unless the enchant swapping fees are going to break them).
Stat optimization is another concern. If the gear has different stats to the old and you have balanced around your old gear, are you going to change your enchants and artifacts to compensate? The more equipment pieces you might be changing, the worse this problem is. That stuff is kitten expensive. And if for example you play DPS, you're probably looking for power and crit on your equipment and any other stat combo is automatically worse for you, and you're not going to wear arpen/recovery equipment unless forced by content requirements.
Also worth considering is armor kits. The expense makes me draw the line at using them at all, but any player more motivated by the BiS thing is looking at replacing those for any new equipment. Not removeable, not reusable, highly worthy of causing resentment.
With the potions and boons and whatnot to boost EF resistance, the resistance itself may actually be less of a concern than initially thought (Kessel access initially required wearing multiple pieces of charged gear), but most of us probably don't want to permanently chuck our old gear for the new stuff. Only if the stats are better, and initial analysis says in many cases they are not.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
@rgutscheradev putting it that way it does seem easy to mantain armour for a good amount of time till next recharge. Appart from that, one thing i've experienced is going to bryn shander without any armour with resistance to ef damage it's going there solelly for the campain, joining in a major he is signing a death sentence, can you do anything to make this a bit better? I'm not trying to make things nicer for me, the minute i enter the game after mod 10 is online im going to get 3 pieces of warfrost(hope i got the name right), but many people cant afford that amount of trade bars. So my sugestión to make both it easy for you to program and not have to design anything etc, replace tenacity from elemental purified/corrupt black ice gear with everfrost damage resist, you can thrust me when i say almost nobody uses it for pvp since the launch of guild equipment that can be obtained with just a bit of ad and coffer donations. Or simply add the ef damage resistance. This is a armour much weaker than relic/ Warfrost so the people seeking for better armour will eventually buy either pieces of those armours.
Oh, one very important thing i forgot to add in my initial post.
When kessels retreat first launched in mod 3 there was a specific Black ice resistance level that was required to enter. i think it was 20% or something. That value was theoretically possible with 2x black ice pieces (armor and something) if they were both fully empowered. the problem was that the entrance value of 20% was set to only allowed a value of Greater than 20%, so you essentially needed 3 pieces of Black ice gear to enter. This later got changed to be greater than or equal 20% which was great.
Because mod 10 is copying a lot of features from mod 3 i just want to confirm that the everfrost resistance value that will be required will be set to Greater than or Equal to. It was a real pain and it would be unfortunate if that had to be patched on live in a month's time
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Hi everybody -- sorry to take so long to get back to you.
I definitely hear what people are saying about the potential frustrations of the empowerment system. That's not a thing I can change, though (although I can, and I have, conveyed everyone's feedback). I always hate having to say stuff like that -- "sorry, can't change it" is such a lame post. My apologies.
However, I absolutely can look into number tuning. I think some of the analysis is a bit off, so let me take you through what we are aiming for, how the system works, and then you guys can let me know if we are hitting the mark (or if you think the mark is way off -- keeping in mind I can't just nuke the whole system, though!).
First, let me say right off that we don't want keeping your gear up to be a huge burden. Like any currency, Voninblod will be tight at first, but once you've taken care of all the one-time expenses, it shouldn't be too bad. So let's talk about the ongoing expenses.
I think archangelzorak01 gave the most thorough analysis (thanks aaz!), so let me riff off that. Your earn rate of about 6,000 VB per hour (without buffs) is pretty close to what we are seeing here. However, your upkeep rates are higher than I'd expect. You get 6 hours of combat time when you completely fill a gear piece, and that costs 6,000 VB for the chest and 4,200 for the other pieces. So if you have all 4 pieces (and remember not everyone will -- this gear is super-hard to get -- lots of people will just have the boots) you'll need 3,100 VB per combat hour for the full set.
But a combat hour is a lot less than a regular hour. It seems like a ton of time is in combat, but think back to those Overload enchantments that lasted 8 hours -- it seemed like forever. (In fact there was at one point a bug where they stopped ticking down, and a lot of people didn't notice). I've been counting on 1 combat hour = 2 play hours -- I think for most players it's more like 1 = 3 or even more, but for people doing heavy dungeon running 1 = 2 is probably closer to the mark. So that's 1,550 VB per play hour that you need (again, assuming a full set of gear).
The goal is that while you are running the zone, you'll make a certain amount from "normal play" (mostly from doing HEs and digging any relic nodes you happen across). Right now that amount is supposed to be about 2,000/hour. This should be more than enough even for people with a full set of gear. However, if it isn't, you can focus on relic hunting, and make that 6,000/hour. But that should just be if you need catch-up. Has anyone tried it out and seen how often they need to break and just relic hunt? Again, *in theory* that should rarely if ever happen, but of course something could be off -- so please let us know!
A few other points: * We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets? (Also note that you can only *wear* one set at a time, so even if you maintain multiples, your VB needs won't go up. But of course beckylunatic is quite right about the inventory pressures, which is why we are not pushing for multiple sets to be a thing.) * We have noticed (as valwyrn points out) that it's much easier to see relics, or to reach the ones you see, on some maps than others. We've tried to tune the relic density to account for that (so, for example, the number of relics per square foot is higher on Lonelywood than it is on Cold Run). Let us know if you think one map is much easier to farm than another -- our goal is to make them all about the same, so that you can be happy hunting relics on whatever map you happen to be on. * @clonkyo1: the nodes have specific places where they spawn, but not all nodes will be up at any given moment. So, for example, a map might have 100 possible spawn points, 50 of which are set to be "on". If you use one node, now there are 49 left, so the server picks one of the remaining 51 at random and turns it on (right away, iirc). So waiting at one spot for a node to re-appear is not a good tactic (as intended, from a design point of view!). As for the purple relics, they only have a chance to show up if you have the purple trowel (the logic there was that with the purple ice pick, you knew it was working because you'd see the increased amount of black ice -- but if all the purple trowel did was change drop rates for the different relic types, you'd never be sure it was working. So there's a small chance of getting a purple relic -- around 5%, I believe -- just to let you know "yes, the purple trowel actually does something").
Well why would I use the new set in the old dungeons like CN where my old set is better? And then I have PvP sets, PvP rings, belts, artifacts, weapons etc. OFC I dont have inventory space...
The real problem is all the different RP, enchants and insignias... You have unbound, char bound, account bound and like 3 of each kind... Took a pic.. And Im storing my rank 6s in the bank because I have no room in my bag. I have to discard rank 3-4s that are bound.
Whoa, whoa, I am totally not making any kind of claim about bag space being all happy. Pretty much everything people are saying about inventory issues is totally true. I just meant to say that this new gear wasn't a specific attempt to make people care even more about multiple gear sets and carry even more gear around. But this new gear doesn't "solve" any of the many problems that exist with inventory already.
It's true that specific gear that's good in specific situations tends to increase bag pressure (believe me, I know, I played a Druid in WoW, it was nuts). Making all gear really generic isn't great either, though. Just having Everfrost resist at all does, in theory, make this problem worse. We did our best to ameliorate this by giving you Everfrost resist "for free" -- in other words, any gear that has EF resist has it on top of any other stats. None of the EF gear "pays" for EF resist in lower stats elsewhere. It's not a perfect solution, but hopefully it helps. It should mean that you don't have to take off EF resist gear when you do most other things. It's still good general-purpose gear.
Someday it would be great if we could do some kind of in-game wardrobe system, where you could quickly slot out a whole gear set at the touch of a button. That kind of thing is a big effort to build, though. There are definitely people here who want to do it (me included!) but it gets tough when a producer says "well, would you rather have that than a new zone?" Maybe someday.
Kessel's Retreat and resistance requirements: good call out. I've mentioned it to the designer working on Fangbreaker Island.
It's probably also worth mentioning that, because the best EF resist gear is quite hard to get (compared to the old Black Ice resist gear), more EF resist is available in other places (potions, shirt & pants, etc.). So even if you can't get the Fangbreaker gear, and you don't have enough Tradebars to get the TB store gear, you can still get a pretty good chunk of EF resist (about 60% of the way to max) in other ways. Getting as much of this "miscellaneous" EF resist as possible will help a lot in doing the toughest HEs (which are very brutal until you have some EF resist).
Whoa, whoa, I am totally not making any kind of claim about bag space being all happy. Pretty much everything people are saying about inventory issues is totally true. I just meant to say that this new gear wasn't a specific attempt to make people care even more about multiple gear sets and carry even more gear around. But this new gear doesn't "solve" any of the many problems that exist with inventory already.
It's true that specific gear that's good in specific situations tends to increase bag pressure (believe me, I know, I played a Druid in WoW, it was nuts). Making all gear really generic isn't great either, though. Just having Everfrost resist at all does, in theory, make this problem worse. We did our best to ameliorate this by giving you Everfrost resist "for free" -- in other words, any gear that has EF resist has it on top of any other stats. None of the EF gear "pays" for EF resist in lower stats elsewhere. It's not a perfect solution, but hopefully it helps. It should mean that you don't have to take off EF resist gear when you do most other things. It's still good general-purpose gear.
Someday it would be great if we could do some kind of in-game wardrobe system, where you could quickly slot out a whole gear set at the touch of a button. That kind of thing is a big effort to build, though. There are definitely people here who want to do it (me included!) but it gets tough when a producer says "well, would you rather have that than a new zone?" Maybe someday.
Kessel's Retreat and resistance requirements: good call out. I've mentioned it to the designer working on Fangbreaker Island.
It's probably also worth mentioning that, because the best EF resist gear is quite hard to get (compared to the old Black Ice resist gear), more EF resist is available in other places (potions, shirt & pants, etc.). So even if you can't get the Fangbreaker gear, and you don't have enough Tradebars to get the TB store gear, you can still get a pretty good chunk of EF resist (about 60% of the way to max) in other ways. Getting as much of this "miscellaneous" EF resist as possible will help a lot in doing the toughest HEs (which are very brutal until you have some EF resist).
Well the only solution for not having the need to store old sets because they are better in other scenarios is to make the new sets even BETTER. I mean if the new sets had better stats, we could switch to those. But they are not. For example Im still using my old High Vizer set from way back and its still really really good.
So how do you make the new sets better than my HV set for example? You could copy the setbonus onto the new sets or come up with new ones that actually beats the old one. Does not have to be a lot better, just better.
Also the stats are problem.. We always seem to get the exact same stats on all our gear. A bit boring especially when it comes to PvP gear. God I hate being forced to use defense for my CW when I want deflect or lifesteal.. And what is it with always giving us recovery?!?! We have spelltwisting, I want something else that is actually useful..
And the new sets in the tradebar has WORSE stats than our old gear, why should we upgrade?! The game always needs new gear to strive for and we dont seem to have that. Why would I spend hours to farm a set that gives like 10 more power? WHY? Or in some cases LESS..
And Masterwork.. People spent millions on that gear in mod9. And now they have to get a new gear?!?!?!.
A few other points:
* We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets? (Also note that you can only *wear* one set at a time, so even if you maintain multiples, your VB needs won't go up. But of course beckylunatic is quite right about the inventory pressures, which is why we are not pushing for multiple sets to be a thing.)
SKT sets with Empowerment and EF resist unfortunately is exactly the type of gear that completely works against that premise. I would assume players need it to master FBI, but you also want to avoid it in other content so that empowerment doesn't tick.
Which means we are going to be forced into two PVE sets + a PVP set. At least the dailies so far are manageable without any EF resist.
Whoa, whoa, I am totally not making any kind of claim about bag space being all happy. Pretty much everything people are saying about inventory issues is totally true. I just meant to say that this new gear wasn't a specific attempt to make people care even more about multiple gear sets and carry even more gear around. But this new gear doesn't "solve" any of the many problems that exist with inventory already.
But that's pretty much what it's doing. I have no interest in farming voninblod for empowerment and then burning it while running elol. Let us toggle empowerment on/off or something.
Let me add that farming EF completely adds on top of the stuff you already have to do on a daily basis. Stronghold, farming campaigns and RADs and then also Voninblood? Don't see it. That's why it's even worse that the new gear is useless in other content.
You can't just use Icewind Dale templates seven mods later. Farming Black Ice wasn't such a pain because there was little else to do anyway. Well and because people cared about open world PVP for two months or so.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited August 2016
@rgutscheradev thx for the answer, regarding it, my gold by introducing some kind of "t1" gear with EF DR was to make everyone capable of participating in all HE's the very first day they get to bryn dhander, i had already considered potions to help me resist EF damage but it did seem better elemental bi gear with a reasonable amount of EF DR than a potion + regular gear, aliance( I considered aliance because that's what many newbies will be taking there), etc, but I had no idea about shirt and pants, definitively have to check, it wouldn't make sence add EF DR to black ice gear if the possible damage taken with armours with more hp is higher using just the buffs you mention.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Someday it would be great if we could do some kind of in-game wardrobe system, where you could quickly slot out a whole gear set at the touch of a button. That kind of thing is a big effort to build, though. There are definitely people here who want to do it (me included!) but it gets tough when a producer says "well, would you rather have that than a new zone?" Maybe someday.
@rgutscheradev Woah, woah, woah, woah. Woah! Hold the phone here.
In this very specific context, can I say (as an aside) ABSOLUTELY YES! Myself, and I'm sure a huge amount of players would absolutely take a wardrobe system of some type over another new zone. Without question.
My response to your producer would be "well, do you like making money? Because we've severely limited our revenue by not better monetizing cosmetics, and having a wardrobe system (like another Cryptic title, Champions Online) would open up the possibility to generate amazing amounts of cash via cosmetic options for characters, driven by an upgrade wardrobe system."
So there you have it. Make it happen.
Module 11: Wardrobe of Horrors: A secret cache of the most unspeakably beautiful and sparkly outfits has been unearthed in a crypt just outside the walls of Neverwinter. So impressive are these garments that Elminster himself has created a special dimensional pocket for the Heroes of Neverwinter to keep their new array of highly fashionable items, and has challenge Heroes everyone to dive into the Wardrobe of Horrors to find even more amazing and fantastic looks. Are those high-heeled boots to die for? You bet they are!
You're welcome.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I fail to see how a old mechanic, that wasnt received well 2 years ago, is going to be received well now.. but as long as tbars remain in shooting distance of regular sets, Im ok with it. But be prepared for alot of negative feedback once the more general populace sees what you have done.
especially those with no tbars to burn through.. they are going to be super happy =P, joy and bubbles and giggles happy =P.
ACCOUNT space is a massive problem , I get so bored of moving right RP around I give up 50% of the time and burn junk that I know would be more value elsewhere.. but jeeperss creeeeeepers. SIMPLY your system already.
Comments
I'm assuming that between relic hunting, daily quest rewards and Fangbreaker we should be getting a reasonable amount of Voninblod to keep out armor empowered without too much strain. I'm running on the assumption that Fangbreaker will reward Voninblod in much the same way that Kessel's rewards Black Ice.
The only thing I find a little disconcerting is how the equipment available for Tarm Bars is actually slightly stronger than Elemental Dragonflight when fully empowered. I would have expected it to be a bit weaker than it is. There is also the gear which drops from HE's that required 7000 V-blod and 3 O-resin to restore, this is stronger than Ele-Dragonflight which is to be expected. I have no problem with the power level of the Restored equipment, as I said I simply wasnt expecting the Tarm Bar gear to be quite so strong.
As I've stated in a previous post I don't see empowering armor to so great of a hassle that it will be ignored. That is, unless a person maintains an army of playable alts. In which case, (once again) as I've stated before these persons will simply have a choice to make: Devote the time or reduce the number of playable alts to reasonable level. Which in my opinion is a perfectly reasonable choice to have to make in an MMO.
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So all in all we're talking about the possibility of at least 7 individual pieces of gear per character that you will want to keep at least mostly empowered. This could all be moot depending on how much V-blod we are awarded in Fangbreaker, if the amount therein is substantial.
After doing my dailies again today I noticed that the V-blod you receive from quests is 1. One. Singular. Thats a bit absurd all things considered, it should certainly be increased to at least 50 if not more.
If you take in all the negative feedback you are receiving about empowered gear you may want to consider not only the amounts of V-blod required but also the combat times. Perhaps reduce the amount of V-blod by 50% or increase the combat time by 100% or perhaps even both.
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It would be supper dupper amazing if you allow us to "cook" our enchants stats, the diversity would be amazing and fun.
For example to create a R7 of critic as main stat, power secondary and recovery as terciary, we would need a r6 azure 2 r5 radiants and 2 r5 silvery's and for example lets keep the 2 marks of potency. And for the name, very simple: NImble enchantment of the powerfull and focused warrior(ok, this sounds terrible, but you get the point im sure the devs team can get a far better name).
1 otherthinh, any plans for black ice? black ice has been since Curse of IWD launch always present in top tier equipment, is it being forgoten now? i also hing the reparation kits are really expensive, i didnt purchase any but if it's 1 per armour piece, im not even touching it. If you made like a improved relic armour maube from rank 6 black ice crafting that would have double resistance to detrioration, it would be awesome.
There is still some discovery to be made when I gain access to Cold Run and Fangbreaker Island. If the amount of V-blod attainable in a run of FBI (haha) is considerable enough to provide me with at least 75% of my empowerment needs I'm OK with it.
If the system gets too grindy, no one will like it. They will complain, it will go the way of BI Empowerment and Mod10 will forever be remembered as a failure to learn from previous mistakes. But if you can balance it, if you can make the numbers work then people will remember the actual content instead of just one failed system.
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Not to say BI-upgraded gear is permanently useless, and the stat allocations on the new gear on the whole look worse than current options in many cases, but then you need to consider that requiring players to obtain and maintain multiple gear sets for different content is enforcing buying more bag space or bank space and VIP for access to the bank from anywhere.
We're not stupid.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I definitely hear what people are saying about the potential frustrations of the empowerment system. That's not a thing I can change, though (although I can, and I have, conveyed everyone's feedback). I always hate having to say stuff like that -- "sorry, can't change it" is such a lame post. My apologies.
However, I absolutely can look into number tuning. I think some of the analysis is a bit off, so let me take you through what we are aiming for, how the system works, and then you guys can let me know if we are hitting the mark (or if you think the mark is way off -- keeping in mind I can't just nuke the whole system, though!).
First, let me say right off that we don't want keeping your gear up to be a huge burden. Like any currency, Voninblod will be tight at first, but once you've taken care of all the one-time expenses, it shouldn't be too bad. So let's talk about the ongoing expenses.
I think archangelzorak01 gave the most thorough analysis (thanks aaz!), so let me riff off that. Your earn rate of about 6,000 VB per hour (without buffs) is pretty close to what we are seeing here. However, your upkeep rates are higher than I'd expect. You get 6 hours of combat time when you completely fill a gear piece, and that costs 6,000 VB for the chest and 4,200 for the other pieces. So if you have all 4 pieces (and remember not everyone will -- this gear is super-hard to get -- lots of people will just have the boots) you'll need 3,100 VB per combat hour for the full set.
But a combat hour is a lot less than a regular hour. It seems like a ton of time is in combat, but think back to those Overload enchantments that lasted 8 hours -- it seemed like forever. (In fact there was at one point a bug where they stopped ticking down, and a lot of people didn't notice). I've been counting on 1 combat hour = 2 play hours -- I think for most players it's more like 1 = 3 or even more, but for people doing heavy dungeon running 1 = 2 is probably closer to the mark. So that's 1,550 VB per play hour that you need (again, assuming a full set of gear).
The goal is that while you are running the zone, you'll make a certain amount from "normal play" (mostly from doing HEs and digging any relic nodes you happen across). Right now that amount is supposed to be about 2,000/hour. This should be more than enough even for people with a full set of gear. However, if it isn't, you can focus on relic hunting, and make that 6,000/hour. But that should just be if you need catch-up. Has anyone tried it out and seen how often they need to break and just relic hunt? Again, *in theory* that should rarely if ever happen, but of course something could be off -- so please let us know!
A few other points:
* We're definitely not looking for people to maintain multiple sets of gear. I don't think there's any real need to do that (you might decide to have 3 of one set, and 1 of another, depending on how you feel about the bonuses). Our expectation is people will replace gear as they get improvements, but not feel a need to have it all on hand. Are that many people really thinking they'd want to maintain multiple sets? (Also note that you can only *wear* one set at a time, so even if you maintain multiples, your VB needs won't go up. But of course beckylunatic is quite right about the inventory pressures, which is why we are not pushing for multiple sets to be a thing.)
* We have noticed (as valwyrn points out) that it's much easier to see relics, or to reach the ones you see, on some maps than others. We've tried to tune the relic density to account for that (so, for example, the number of relics per square foot is higher on Lonelywood than it is on Cold Run). Let us know if you think one map is much easier to farm than another -- our goal is to make them all about the same, so that you can be happy hunting relics on whatever map you happen to be on.
* @clonkyo1: the nodes have specific places where they spawn, but not all nodes will be up at any given moment. So, for example, a map might have 100 possible spawn points, 50 of which are set to be "on". If you use one node, now there are 49 left, so the server picks one of the remaining 51 at random and turns it on (right away, iirc). So waiting at one spot for a node to re-appear is not a good tactic (as intended, from a design point of view!). As for the purple relics, they only have a chance to show up if you have the purple trowel (the logic there was that with the purple ice pick, you knew it was working because you'd see the increased amount of black ice -- but if all the purple trowel did was change drop rates for the different relic types, you'd never be sure it was working. So there's a small chance of getting a purple relic -- around 5%, I believe -- just to let you know "yes, the purple trowel actually does something").
1) I want 2x drow pieces for when i run PoM or Edemo because that madness reduction is really really nice.
2) Obviously I am going to want enough everfrost resistance to get into FBI,(4 pieces possibly, relic boots and 3x tradebar pieces) how however many pieces of gear/potions/stuff that requires (if i need to hold potions instead of gear that is the exact same problem for inventory management.
3) 2x Dusk pieces is BIS right now for pretty much all classes because that 1k power/defense and 5k HP while in a party is worth a lot more than having 2x adamant pieces instead.
3) if i am running content that doesn't need everfrost resistance I am going to be using other gear if the stats are better (or better distributed). so this might include the drow gear mentioned above, or i might have 2x of something else (like adamant)
So this totals up to a possible 10 different armor items in some combination of helm/arms/armor/feet. i'll be wearing 4 of them at any given time, but that leaves 6 in my pack and i have 4 pieces of pvp gear because i need tenacity. And like i said before, everfrost potions, 3 different kinds of relics that i need to be able to hold at one time (4 slots needed for 4 kinds of relics if i get that purple trowel and 1 spot for the trowel, though i guess that replaces the white/green trowel, still takes a slot though). I am probably missing new consumables or something from the new mod because i have not played too much of it.
and about that purple trowel. The purple Icepick from IWD was understandably a good deal. you got 3x as much Black ice in return, so a 300% return on your time, which is very important to many people, they will happily pay 1000 zen to spend so much less time grinding black ice. Does the Purple trowel giving a 5% chance to get a purple relic offer the same 300% return on time? I have no idea how the purple trowel will be obtained, but if it is by paying 1000 zen and you don't get an equivalent return as the purple black ice pickaxe then i highly doubt i will be interested in paying for it
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
From my visits to the Preview server I would have to question just how 'super-hard' this empowered gear is to get hold of. Unless things are changed dramatically when things go live on the 16th, then equipping a character with three pieces of Frostborn gear is going to be anything but 'super-hard' as it can be picked up off the Tradebar Store for a total of 210 Tradebars (head=65, chest=85, feet=65). While there is probably a higher tier of empowered gear available from running Fangbreaker Island, even the readily available Frostborn set is going to need lots of VB to keep it powered up. While there wont be a need to maintain multiple sets of empowered gear, people will probably want to hang onto and keep using some of their existing gear. While it wont be the case for everyone, I know I will be hanging onto at least some of my Drowcraft gear. Two of my characters have Shadow Demon companions. Having three pieces of Drowcraft or Dusk gear awards the wearer with Underdark Mount & Companion Affinity. With the Shadow Demon that results in the cooldown of its Active Bonus being reduced from 30 seconds to just 20. While it is not exactly game breaking, that is something I would quite like to retain and is certainly something I want to still have available for running existing dungeons and skirmishes. So slots in my always 'never enough room' inventory will be occupied by one set or the other. Other Underdark Companions and Mounts may also offer Bonus improvements that people will want to retain. Is this something you took into consideration ?
The more bonuses you introduce that are only useful in specific types of content (Drowcraft was all about demon resistance, now there's Everfrost), the less people will want to keep one set for all purposes. Players aren't likely to totally stop running Demogorgon just because there's a new dungeon in town. They're also going to feel forced into Epic Temple of the Spider to get the most valuable salvage in the least time with the proposed changes in that department. And the other thing with this is that in any content where EF resist is not a concern, many players will not want to be running down their charged gear, so they'll change it (unless the enchant swapping fees are going to break them).
Stat optimization is another concern. If the gear has different stats to the old and you have balanced around your old gear, are you going to change your enchants and artifacts to compensate? The more equipment pieces you might be changing, the worse this problem is. That stuff is kitten expensive. And if for example you play DPS, you're probably looking for power and crit on your equipment and any other stat combo is automatically worse for you, and you're not going to wear arpen/recovery equipment unless forced by content requirements.
Also worth considering is armor kits. The expense makes me draw the line at using them at all, but any player more motivated by the BiS thing is looking at replacing those for any new equipment. Not removeable, not reusable, highly worthy of causing resentment.
With the potions and boons and whatnot to boost EF resistance, the resistance itself may actually be less of a concern than initially thought (Kessel access initially required wearing multiple pieces of charged gear), but most of us probably don't want to permanently chuck our old gear for the new stuff. Only if the stats are better, and initial analysis says in many cases they are not.
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So my sugestión to make both it easy for you to program and not have to design anything etc, replace tenacity from elemental purified/corrupt black ice gear with everfrost damage resist, you can thrust me when i say almost nobody uses it for pvp since the launch of guild equipment that can be obtained with just a bit of ad and coffer donations. Or simply add the ef damage resistance. This is a armour much weaker than relic/ Warfrost so the people seeking for better armour will eventually buy either pieces of those armours.
When kessels retreat first launched in mod 3 there was a specific Black ice resistance level that was required to enter. i think it was 20% or something. That value was theoretically possible with 2x black ice pieces (armor and something) if they were both fully empowered. the problem was that the entrance value of 20% was set to only allowed a value of Greater than 20%, so you essentially needed 3 pieces of Black ice gear to enter. This later got changed to be greater than or equal 20% which was great.
Because mod 10 is copying a lot of features from mod 3 i just want to confirm that the everfrost resistance value that will be required will be set to Greater than or Equal to. It was a real pain and it would be unfortunate if that had to be patched on live in a month's time
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
The real problem is all the different RP, enchants and insignias... You have unbound, char bound, account bound and like 3 of each kind... Took a pic.. And Im storing my rank 6s in the bank because I have no room in my bag. I have to discard rank 3-4s that are bound.
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It's true that specific gear that's good in specific situations tends to increase bag pressure (believe me, I know, I played a Druid in WoW, it was nuts). Making all gear really generic isn't great either, though. Just having Everfrost resist at all does, in theory, make this problem worse. We did our best to ameliorate this by giving you Everfrost resist "for free" -- in other words, any gear that has EF resist has it on top of any other stats. None of the EF gear "pays" for EF resist in lower stats elsewhere. It's not a perfect solution, but hopefully it helps. It should mean that you don't have to take off EF resist gear when you do most other things. It's still good general-purpose gear.
Someday it would be great if we could do some kind of in-game wardrobe system, where you could quickly slot out a whole gear set at the touch of a button. That kind of thing is a big effort to build, though. There are definitely people here who want to do it (me included!) but it gets tough when a producer says "well, would you rather have that than a new zone?" Maybe someday.
Kessel's Retreat and resistance requirements: good call out. I've mentioned it to the designer working on Fangbreaker Island.
It's probably also worth mentioning that, because the best EF resist gear is quite hard to get (compared to the old Black Ice resist gear), more EF resist is available in other places (potions, shirt & pants, etc.). So even if you can't get the Fangbreaker gear, and you don't have enough Tradebars to get the TB store gear, you can still get a pretty good chunk of EF resist (about 60% of the way to max) in other ways. Getting as much of this "miscellaneous" EF resist as possible will help a lot in doing the toughest HEs (which are very brutal until you have some EF resist).
So how do you make the new sets better than my HV set for example? You could copy the setbonus onto the new sets or come up with new ones that actually beats the old one. Does not have to be a lot better, just better.
Also the stats are problem.. We always seem to get the exact same stats on all our gear. A bit boring especially when it comes to PvP gear. God I hate being forced to use defense for my CW when I want deflect or lifesteal.. And what is it with always giving us recovery?!?! We have spelltwisting, I want something else that is actually useful..
And the new sets in the tradebar has WORSE stats than our old gear, why should we upgrade?! The game always needs new gear to strive for and we dont seem to have that. Why would I spend hours to farm a set that gives like 10 more power? WHY? Or in some cases LESS..
And Masterwork.. People spent millions on that gear in mod9. And now they have to get a new gear?!?!?!.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
SKT sets with Empowerment and EF resist unfortunately is exactly the type of gear that completely works against that premise. I would assume players need it to master FBI, but you also want to avoid it in other content so that empowerment doesn't tick.
Which means we are going to be forced into two PVE sets + a PVP set. At least the dailies so far are manageable without any EF resist.
You can't just use Icewind Dale templates seven mods later. Farming Black Ice wasn't such a pain because there was little else to do anyway. Well and because people cared about open world PVP for two months or so.
In this very specific context, can I say (as an aside) ABSOLUTELY YES! Myself, and I'm sure a huge amount of players would absolutely take a wardrobe system of some type over another new zone. Without question.
My response to your producer would be "well, do you like making money? Because we've severely limited our revenue by not better monetizing cosmetics, and having a wardrobe system (like another Cryptic title, Champions Online) would open up the possibility to generate amazing amounts of cash via cosmetic options for characters, driven by an upgrade wardrobe system."
So there you have it. Make it happen.
Module 11: Wardrobe of Horrors: A secret cache of the most unspeakably beautiful and sparkly outfits has been unearthed in a crypt just outside the walls of Neverwinter. So impressive are these garments that Elminster himself has created a special dimensional pocket for the Heroes of Neverwinter to keep their new array of highly fashionable items, and has challenge Heroes everyone to dive into the Wardrobe of Horrors to find even more amazing and fantastic looks. Are those high-heeled boots to die for? You bet they are!
You're welcome.
especially those with no tbars to burn through.. they are going to be super happy =P, joy and bubbles and giggles happy =P.
ACCOUNT space is a massive problem , I get so bored of moving right RP around I give up 50% of the time and burn junk that I know would be more value elsewhere.. but jeeperss creeeeeepers. SIMPLY your system already.