Your problem is two-fold... No one really cares about the transports because they're just doing the same TFO over and over again to get their coupin and get their ship. Also, there doesn't seem to be anything that happens if you don't capture any of the freighters.
Except you lose the Marks bonus for them.
Do you? I hadn't noticed. I don't play this TFO for marks...no one I've played with has indicated this was a concern of theirs - getting the T6 ship coupin is the only thing that matters.
It is weird how people act like they are all goal oriented and optimized, when they are just throwing away good resource income away?
I mean, if you're completely AFK and in the mean time do you taxes or tuck in your children or whatever, sure, you're really getting a lot of your time.
But if you actually sit in the game and spend your time on it, you cannot just earn some vouchers doing this TFO, you can also earn some extra marks. And don't tell me you need that time for during Admiralty and Duty Officers. That's what the briefings and queue wait times are for.
Beside that - if people really don't care a tiny it about the resources gained other than those vouchers (I think I could buy something like 15 ships if I'd just sit down and make my taxes, though), then they probably also wouldn't bother popping Gravity Wells, because that click is getting you pretty much nothing. The mission isn't really getting faster with that, but you destroy marks.
Also, let's face it. You will end up chasing for this free Tier 6 ship and maybe the Dilithium and Marks doing something you bores you, so you can take the ship and do the next thing that bores you, so you get Dilithium and Marks and maybe Vouchers or something else fancy do the same thing again and again, all while you complain about how it's all so grindy and you can't play this game in the manner you actually would not find it boring, because you really must chase the next reward.
Personally I don't find marks a good resource they are completely useless to me after the point I have maxed out the rep and brought the equipment.
Not that marks matter what I came here to say is the mission does goes faster by killing the transports. Only 10 transports spawn and when it works correctly you skip to the next section saving around 2 minutes. Although it’s not 100% reliable in a typical run for me even without rifts the 10 transports will all die almost instantly and then we sit waiting for over a minute and a half. But it has worked a few times saving time on the TFO run.
Personally I have given up trying to save the transports they last less than 2 seconds 90% of the time for me. They last longer if I do not use a tractor beam only then the warp cores blow them up instead. So as they die after healing with or without a tractor beam I give up. Apart from the clearly bugged transport section I do enjoy this TFO.
I usually don't use GW in RTFO and by extension no in the Event TFO either. One thing i have noticed that i have to be very careful with miracle worker abilities with radiation and drain expertise since those appear to continue damaging transports even after capture.
Probably plasma fire too. I always use Hazard Emitter, and zap it with that.
Its not just the GW. Aceton beams with the weaponized Emitters trait, Warpcore breaches from the escorting KDF ships, mines, anything that causes DoT will damage an d most likely destroy them. They really need more HP
Grav well is a non-issue unless you're slow to tractor the transport out of the well. High burst and high direct-applied DoTs are bigger threats. You don't need a gravwell to kill a transport in one burst, and they only have 84k hp. HE them when they switch sides and tractor immediately to avoid the problem. If you have something that hits for 84k+ in one go, don't use it.
I actually DO Grav Well the enemies and have yet to lose a transport to that. Grab the transport as soon as you can, evasive manoeuvres, change power setting to engine power, and deliver the transport. No problem at all.
As for the other issue "Me and four friends I play with" are still not "everybody", if this thread is something to go by. Me, I actually do not care about the marks as such, but I do care about getting the mission solved as neatly as possible - get the Fed transports safe, steal the Klink transports without them blowing up. Yes, I mostly play it for the shiny event marks (and these days the 100% discount points), but while I am here, there is a story within this mission, I don't care whether it's logical or well written (most of the time at least, there were exceptions), I will try to get the stuff done that the higher ups sending me here want me to do.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I am part of the problem. Sorry those of you who care. But I don't. Cryptic have failed to incentivise me to keep those transports alive.
I run the mission for the daily reward, which isn't affected by the life/death of the transports, so when we get to that stage I park my Mega-Well build in front of the spawn point and annihilate everything, as its less work then going back and forth.
So to those of you trying to fulfill the objective I apologize. I also apologize to those people that used to try and get the optional in the original mirror invasion(years ago), those that try and get the optional undine assault, and any other optionals that I just don't care about.
I wish cryptic would just give events a rest already. Event fatigue has done nothing to help my apathy. All the same, let it be known that if you don't private que, you are accepting the possibility that you might end up in a match where I destroy all the transports. If you don't wish to accept that private que.
> @coldnapalm said: > Well, I personally like blowing up the transporters as it makes the next group pop out faster. And honestly my non star fleet captains don't believe in taking prisoners anyways.
As my AoY toon puts it in the after action reports......it’s culturally insensitive to take Klingons prisoner, sending them to Stovakor or whatever is the only way to properly show respect for their “Rich and vibrant culture”.
I am part of the problem. Sorry those of you who care. But I don't. Cryptic have failed to incentivise me to keep those transports alive.
I run the mission for the daily reward, which isn't affected by the life/death of the transports, so when we get to that stage I park my Mega-Well build in front of the spawn point and annihilate everything, as its less work then going back and forth.
So to those of you trying to fulfill the objective I apologize. I also apologize to those people that used to try and get the optional in the original mirror invasion(years ago), those that try and get the optional undine assault, and any other optionals that I just don't care about.
I wish cryptic would just give events a rest already. Event fatigue has done nothing to help my apathy. All the same, let it be known that if you don't private que, you are accepting the possibility that you might end up in a match where I destroy all the transports. If you don't wish to accept that private que.
Event related fatigue is entirely understandable as is the knowledge that when I queue up for this or any FTFO that some will be in it for just the token.
You may have the private queue thing backwards though.
Perhaps the best option would be to park beside you and add a gravimetric or PEP torpedo spread to your mega-well to ensure that no transports remain?
I don't seem to have any issues snagging transports out of most gravity wells then using evasive maneuvers though . Problem meet solution
I don't know but after you get credit for capturing and returning the Transport, you've already gotten the credit for the save. I've never seen that number decremented in the last Phase.
The captures are in the book and as they are marked as 'friendly', those Transports will not be sucked in. The Klingon ships that attack, will breach regardless and are so packed together anyway.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
they do it because it's a learned reflex, Val. in 99.9% of content, Gravity well plus area of effect dps is THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
missions where it isn't, are largely unpopular (almost nobody voluntarily queues for tzenkethi missions because they don't want to shift their tactics-that-work).
Yes, I know why people do it and I also understand GW is effective in most circumstances. Point is that it isn't in these particular scenarios. One would think (hope) people would be intelligent enough to understand that what they are doing doesn't work and adapt.
I don't really use GW because it's effective, except on my Sci captains. I use it on my main simple as a CC. But, that's because I run BO, instead of FAW. I mix this iwth a torp spread and destabilize warp core. Which works, GW gathers them up nicely and then hen my primary target pops, well.. that's a double warp core breach for all around it, thanks to destabilize. This is the most entertaining way I could find to use GW in a build.
But, in general, I don't much worry over the transports here. Sure at times I try to save some, just for something to do. Most of the time though, I'm watching the mission counter, when it reaches 1 or 0 I know it time to move to the next phase. Since, saving them doesn't speed getting to the next phase, meh. blown up is just as good as saved.
Yes, I know why people do it and I also understand GW is effective in most circumstances. Point is that it isn't in these particular scenarios. One would think (hope) people would be intelligent enough to understand that what they are doing doesn't work and adapt.
What? GW3 can deal 10k+ per tick on EPG builds and puts all the other targets that spawn in with the transports in one place for more AoE, and all that must be done for it to not cause issues is tractor quickly and heal/cleanse the transport afterward. It's perfectly effective.
The problem here isn't solved by asking people to stop doing what works or stop using what works yourself - it's solved by cleaning up messes you make if you gravwell/DoT/burst and learning how to do the same for others, whose gameplay we don't control.
> @echatty said: > I guess I'm one of those people who aren't bored by doing this. I also don't do it on multiple toons, just one character on each acct, of which I have two.
Your not the only one, I do enjoy it some but then Im new to this game. The only bad part is I do die sometimes in my T4 ship.
What? GW3 can deal 10k+ per tick on EPG builds and puts all the other targets that spawn in with the transports in one place for more AoE, and all that must be done for it to not cause issues is tractor quickly and heal/cleanse the transport afterward. It's perfectly effective.
Yes, we know it can do damage. That's essentially the point the OP was making. I also did not say anyone should adjust their way of playing. If they don't want to, fine by me. All I pointed out was that sometimes people could attempt to adapt - not must adapt.
I wonder if they really don't notice they are doing no damage at all when they use it?
OP was talking about enemy breaches causing damage as well (rather than GW itself), and I was saying us adapting to irresponsible GWing would yield better results than trying to get them to play differently.
What? GW3 can deal 10k+ per tick on EPG builds and puts all the other targets that spawn in with the transports in one place for more AoE, and all that must be done for it to not cause issues is tractor quickly and heal/cleanse the transport afterward. It's perfectly effective.
Yes, we know it can do damage. That's essentially the point the OP was making. I also did not say anyone should adjust their way of playing. If they don't want to, fine by me. All I pointed out was that sometimes people could attempt to adapt - not must adapt.
I wonder if they really don't notice they are doing no damage at all when they use it?
OP was talking about enemy breaches causing damage as well (rather than GW itself), and I was saying us adapting to irresponsible GWing would yield better results than trying to get them to play differently.
I believe he was referring to the Tzinkethi who gain defense when clustered. If you GW them you start doing practically no damage.
> @echatty said:
> I guess I'm one of those people who aren't bored by doing this. I also don't do it on multiple toons, just one character on each acct, of which I have two.
Your not the only one, I do enjoy it some but then Im new to this game. The only bad part is I do die sometimes in my T4 ship.
Oh, I can imagine the dying. I'm doing them in my Rezreth right now on one. It really depends on my endeavors. If I need an energy damage other than polaron, then I'll swap ships. I'm working on getting at least one ship with each damage type so I can just swap back and forth.
Still, I think I could do them in one of my T5-U ships with the right loadout.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
What? GW3 can deal 10k+ per tick on EPG builds and puts all the other targets that spawn in with the transports in one place for more AoE, and all that must be done for it to not cause issues is tractor quickly and heal/cleanse the transport afterward. It's perfectly effective.
Yes, we know it can do damage. That's essentially the point the OP was making. I also did not say anyone should adjust their way of playing. If they don't want to, fine by me. All I pointed out was that sometimes people could attempt to adapt - not must adapt.
I wonder if they really don't notice they are doing no damage at all when they use it?
OP was talking about enemy breaches causing damage as well (rather than GW itself), and I was saying us adapting to irresponsible GWing would yield better results than trying to get them to play differently.
I believe he was referring to the Tzinkethi who gain defense when clustered. If you GW them you start doing practically no damage.
Ahh, gotcha. Haven't done those TFOs in ages, totally forgot about that mechanic. I seem to remember the support cruisers spawning pretty close to the large ships anyway, though.
I have EPtE slotted so I don't need to flip around settings.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What? GW3 can deal 10k+ per tick on EPG builds and puts all the other targets that spawn in with the transports in one place for more AoE, and all that must be done for it to not cause issues is tractor quickly and heal/cleanse the transport afterward. It's perfectly effective.
Yes, we know it can do damage. That's essentially the point the OP was making. I also did not say anyone should adjust their way of playing. If they don't want to, fine by me. All I pointed out was that sometimes people could attempt to adapt - not must adapt.
I wonder if they really don't notice they are doing no damage at all when they use it?
OP was talking about enemy breaches causing damage as well (rather than GW itself), and I was saying us adapting to irresponsible GWing would yield better results than trying to get them to play differently.
I believe he was referring to the Tzinkethi who gain defense when clustered. If you GW them you start doing practically no damage.
Ahh, gotcha. Haven't done those TFOs in ages, totally forgot about that mechanic. I seem to remember the support cruisers spawning pretty close to the large ships anyway, though.
Kethi spawns are always 3 frigates, cruiser & frigate, single big dreadnaughty thing. In the case of the BZ usually cycled and from the same spots so very easy to pick a target.
They are however a better example of how a grav well doesn't help the players who can't spot targets or have simply trained themselves out of focus firing on specific targets due to situations where more than one cruiser get drawn into the well and get a cycle of immunity going.
I'd honestly not mind all that much if the spawns were more random to the point where multiple cruisers could appear.
I'd honestly not mind all that much if the spawns were more random to the point where multiple cruisers could appear.
Generally I agree, more spawn variety would be welcome, also in missions, the "three frigate" one especially overstayed its welcome years ago. Gameplay wise though it'd be useful to not get spawns entirely randomly to avoid too little synergie for those enemies who have them. And since in real life often task forces are built similarily if used for similar tasks, it even kinda makes sense (except that the "similar task" here is: appear randomly and get blown up by the player).
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
> @felisean said: > there is actually another issue with those transporters too. if you shoot with cannons at them and there are still some shots at the "run" when you activate the tractor beam, your ownshots will destroy the transport
Which is the other reason I swapped power to engines for that phase.
Less damage being done isn't a big deal when its not the main goal as well as reducing the overall risk of me causing a ship to breach while some muppet tractors a transport right through the middle of the group.
I have EPtE slotted so I don't need to flip around settings.
If you save your current setting, to say the weapons setting in your power management. You can simply flip between power settings by click Weapon, Shield, Engine or Auxiliary setting there.
Which is the other reason I swapped power to engines for that phase.
Less damage being done isn't a big deal when its not the main goal as well as reducing the overall risk of me causing a ship to breach while some muppet tractors a transport right through the middle of the group.
Depending on your base speed, EPtE is meh. You can do the same thing with Evasive and Attack Pattern: Omega. I keep Omega slotted, because it clears all movement debuffs while active. It's my ignore Grav Wells, Tyken's, Tractor Beams, etc skill.
I did not mean I only have or use EPtE. I also use Evasive and APO. I mentioned EPtE only in response to flipping power settings.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> @felisean said:
> there is actually another issue with those transporters too. if you shoot with cannons at them and there are still some shots at the "run" when you activate the tractor beam, your ownshots will destroy the transport
I noticed that cannon volley does this.
doesnt matter at the end. scatter volley, rapid fire, normal fire mode with cannons, all could do that if they do the propper amount of dmg. same for torpedos in all variations, including pet torps
Comments
Not that marks matter what I came here to say is the mission does goes faster by killing the transports. Only 10 transports spawn and when it works correctly you skip to the next section saving around 2 minutes. Although it’s not 100% reliable in a typical run for me even without rifts the 10 transports will all die almost instantly and then we sit waiting for over a minute and a half. But it has worked a few times saving time on the TFO run.
Personally I have given up trying to save the transports they last less than 2 seconds 90% of the time for me. They last longer if I do not use a tractor beam only then the warp cores blow them up instead. So as they die after healing with or without a tractor beam I give up. Apart from the clearly bugged transport section I do enjoy this TFO.
My character Tsin'xing
As for the other issue "Me and four friends I play with" are still not "everybody", if this thread is something to go by. Me, I actually do not care about the marks as such, but I do care about getting the mission solved as neatly as possible - get the Fed transports safe, steal the Klink transports without them blowing up. Yes, I mostly play it for the shiny event marks (and these days the 100% discount points), but while I am here, there is a story within this mission, I don't care whether it's logical or well written (most of the time at least, there were exceptions), I will try to get the stuff done that the higher ups sending me here want me to do.
I run the mission for the daily reward, which isn't affected by the life/death of the transports, so when we get to that stage I park my Mega-Well build in front of the spawn point and annihilate everything, as its less work then going back and forth.
So to those of you trying to fulfill the objective I apologize. I also apologize to those people that used to try and get the optional in the original mirror invasion(years ago), those that try and get the optional undine assault, and any other optionals that I just don't care about.
I wish cryptic would just give events a rest already. Event fatigue has done nothing to help my apathy. All the same, let it be known that if you don't private que, you are accepting the possibility that you might end up in a match where I destroy all the transports. If you don't wish to accept that private que.
> Well, I personally like blowing up the transporters as it makes the next group pop out faster. And honestly my non star fleet captains don't believe in taking prisoners anyways.
As my AoY toon puts it in the after action reports......it’s culturally insensitive to take Klingons prisoner, sending them to Stovakor or whatever is the only way to properly show respect for their “Rich and vibrant culture”.
You may have the private queue thing backwards though.
Perhaps the best option would be to park beside you and add a gravimetric or PEP torpedo spread to your mega-well to ensure that no transports remain?
I don't seem to have any issues snagging transports out of most gravity wells then using evasive maneuvers though . Problem meet solution
The captures are in the book and as they are marked as 'friendly', those Transports will not be sucked in. The Klingon ships that attack, will breach regardless and are so packed together anyway.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't really use GW because it's effective, except on my Sci captains. I use it on my main simple as a CC. But, that's because I run BO, instead of FAW. I mix this iwth a torp spread and destabilize warp core. Which works, GW gathers them up nicely and then hen my primary target pops, well.. that's a double warp core breach for all around it, thanks to destabilize. This is the most entertaining way I could find to use GW in a build.
But, in general, I don't much worry over the transports here. Sure at times I try to save some, just for something to do. Most of the time though, I'm watching the mission counter, when it reaches 1 or 0 I know it time to move to the next phase. Since, saving them doesn't speed getting to the next phase, meh. blown up is just as good as saved.
The problem here isn't solved by asking people to stop doing what works or stop using what works yourself - it's solved by cleaning up messes you make if you gravwell/DoT/burst and learning how to do the same for others, whose gameplay we don't control.
> I guess I'm one of those people who aren't bored by doing this. I also don't do it on multiple toons, just one character on each acct, of which I have two.
Your not the only one, I do enjoy it some but then Im new to this game. The only bad part is I do die sometimes in my T4 ship.
(Except for the one guy I played with on the latest ground FTFO who had 11 wounds or so).
I believe he was referring to the Tzinkethi who gain defense when clustered. If you GW them you start doing practically no damage.
Oh, I can imagine the dying. I'm doing them in my Rezreth right now on one. It really depends on my endeavors. If I need an energy damage other than polaron, then I'll swap ships. I'm working on getting at least one ship with each damage type so I can just swap back and forth.
Still, I think I could do them in one of my T5-U ships with the right loadout.
Combined with evasive manoeuvrers which isn't affected by the tractor slowdown I can easily get two dropped off by the time other have done just one.
You're certainly not the only one. Although I somethimes forget to switch back to my main setup
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Kethi spawns are always 3 frigates, cruiser & frigate, single big dreadnaughty thing. In the case of the BZ usually cycled and from the same spots so very easy to pick a target.
They are however a better example of how a grav well doesn't help the players who can't spot targets or have simply trained themselves out of focus firing on specific targets due to situations where more than one cruiser get drawn into the well and get a cycle of immunity going.
I'd honestly not mind all that much if the spawns were more random to the point where multiple cruisers could appear.
Generally I agree, more spawn variety would be welcome, also in missions, the "three frigate" one especially overstayed its welcome years ago. Gameplay wise though it'd be useful to not get spawns entirely randomly to avoid too little synergie for those enemies who have them. And since in real life often task forces are built similarily if used for similar tasks, it even kinda makes sense (except that the "similar task" here is: appear randomly and get blown up by the player).
> there is actually another issue with those transporters too. if you shoot with cannons at them and there are still some shots at the "run" when you activate the tractor beam, your ownshots will destroy the transport
I noticed that cannon volley does this.
Less damage being done isn't a big deal when its not the main goal as well as reducing the overall risk of me causing a ship to breach while some muppet tractors a transport right through the middle of the group.
If you save your current setting, to say the weapons setting in your power management. You can simply flip between power settings by click Weapon, Shield, Engine or Auxiliary setting there.
Depending on your base speed, EPtE is meh. You can do the same thing with Evasive and Attack Pattern: Omega. I keep Omega slotted, because it clears all movement debuffs while active. It's my ignore Grav Wells, Tyken's, Tractor Beams, etc skill.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
doesnt matter at the end. scatter volley, rapid fire, normal fire mode with cannons, all could do that if they do the propper amount of dmg. same for torpedos in all variations, including pet torps
ingame: @Felisean
I've noticed this on my carrier char. Watching my hangar pets fire at a spot of empty space where a ship use to be.