"Retaking the Test"

ambassadorkael · June 2017

A veteran Starfleet Captain reflects on her memories of the Kobayashi Maru, on the eve of the rest of the Alliance getting their first try, in our latest (and my first) fiction blog:

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10547183

mustrumridcully0 · June 2017

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

aoav160 · June 2017

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

I have to agree, but this was written by people with no military experience.

darakoss · June 2017

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

psiameese · June 2017

I'll be curious to learn if there is, somehow, a faction variant on exactly what constitutes no-win for other members of the Alliance?

markhawkman · June 2017

darakoss wrote: »

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

It seemed like she collapsed under simulated pressure. Maybe that's part of why she had to retake it?

thatsgottahurt · June 2017

A lot of typos in that story. I also believe someone needs to learn how to use a comma.

thatsgottahurt · June 2017

markhawkman wrote: »

darakoss wrote: »

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

It seemed like she collapsed under simulated pressure. Maybe that's part of why she had to retake it?

The entire alliance has to take it, not just her.

where2r1 · June 2017

thatsgottahurt wrote: »

A lot of typos in that story. I also believe someone needs to learn how to use a comma.

LOL! I am sorry, this comment is funny.

trillbuffet · June 2017

Wow. I'm glad I don't care about grammar. It was amusing story though and that is what counts. Plus the Klingon version would be called a great way to die with lots of honor and stuff.

chroma01 · June 2017

darakoss wrote: »

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

It's a "No-Win Situation"... regardless of what you do, events conspire to cause you to lose your ship and crew.

While somewhat silly, I think the short story collection of the various crew members taking the test talk about this a bit.

thetanine · June 2017

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

As someone who had to perform highly technical procedures in order to pass tests that would allow me to remain employed at the level I held, among my peers, let me tell you: How other people perceive your ability to handle a tense situation that requires the utmost confidence -- In Yourself -- is harder to overcome than the test itself.

jorantomalak · June 2017

darakoss wrote: »

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

Its part of the no win scenario the KYM is a federation fuel carrier so as a starfleet vessel you have to respond to its distress regardless of when and where it is, secondly as it is a federation vessel you are not allowed to leave it behind in short the scenario is a catch 22 from the start.

where2r1 · June 2017

Kael....you should consider an "Official" "Special" Literary Challenge on this topic. The Comm Manager used to do those.

chitowngrizz420 · June 2017

Is this a hint that we might be getting No Win Scenario back soon?

ambassadorkael · June 2017

chitowngrizz420 wrote: »

Is this a hint that we might be getting No Win Scenario back soon?

Uh. The Kobayashi Maru queue went live today.

darakoss · June 2017

jorantomalak wrote: »

darakoss wrote: »

If she was that traumatized over a simulation maybe command is not for her? Idk. There is also the option of saving your crew by honoring neutral zone treaty and turning the ship around.

Its part of the no win scenario the KYM is a federation fuel carrier so as a starfleet vessel you have to respond to its distress regardless of when and where it is, secondly as it is a federation vessel you are not allowed to leave it behind in short the scenario is a catch 22 from the start.

Guess you missed the part where Sulu warned Savvik about crossing the Neutral Zone. Yes it is a no win scenario because either way the Kobayashi Maru is lost. Although not canon in the novel Kobayashi Maru Sulu decides the best course was to not provoke a war by crossing the zone. He feared it was a trap by the Klingons. Lastly in TWOK Kobayashi Maru was a civilian freighter, not a starfleet vessel.

delaroma · June 2017

Klingons participating in the Kobayashi Maru ... what glorious destruction.

chastity1337 · June 2017

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

Yes, all true, but Federation society of the ST universe is not like ours today. People today are inured to violence and death. We see every week horrendous headlines, encompassing death and destruction on a scale beyond reason, and we pass on unmoved. Such things were not accepted 40 years ago, and would not be accepted in Federation society of the ST universe. They are disturbed by a single death, but we have become indifferent to death like no generation since that of WW2.

To quote Stalin, "When you kill one it is a tragedy. When you kill ten million it is a statistic."

hibari · June 2017

Crypic, just a question .. hypothetical really .. if say, someone, somehow managed to install and activate a subroutine in the programming code, thereby changing the conditions of the test.. would you ban that individual?

smokebailey · June 2017

aoav160 wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

I have to agree, but this was written by people with no military experience.

quit thinking starfleet is the army or navy.

lordmalak1 · June 2017

delaroma wrote: »

Klingons participating in the Kobayashi Maru ... what glorious destruction.

heh, protecting a fed ship too. It would be glorious if the Maru was a neutral freighter and the attackers were Fed but the scenerio is setup like a research problem, and the feds are studying our tactics.

ambassadorkael · June 2017

koeilawl wrote: »

Crypic, just a question .. hypothetical really .. if say, someone, somehow managed to install and activate a subroutine in the programming code, thereby changing the conditions of the test.. would you ban that individual?

See lordmalak's signature.

lordmalak1 · June 2017

^
LOL

RECOGNITION !

darakoss · June 2017

chastity1337 wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I have some trouble believing that the impact of a test where you know you're supposed to fail the scenario really leaves behind a deep emotional impact. I am certainly not shattered thinking that I suck at STO for failing the mission.

I think it really only works if you think it's like any other test. Of course, secrecy would be difficult, but even then - knowing an unbeatable scenario is among the test scenarios and knowing the current test scenario is that unbeatable scenario are two different things.

Yes, all true, but Federation society of the ST universe is not like ours today. People today are inured to violence and death. We see every week horrendous headlines, encompassing death and destruction on a scale beyond reason, and we pass on unmoved. Such things were not accepted 40 years ago, and would not be accepted in Federation society of the ST universe. They are disturbed by a single death, but we have become indifferent to death like no generation since that of WW2.

To quote Stalin, "When you kill one it is a tragedy. When you kill ten million it is a statistic."

Tell that to the all the PC captains vaporizing everything in sight.

markhawkman · June 2017

koeilawl wrote: »

Crypic, just a question .. hypothetical really .. if say, someone, somehow managed to install and activate a subroutine in the programming code, thereby changing the conditions of the test.. would you ban that individual?

I'm pretty sure they don't have any Orion interns,

brian334 · July 2017

By the time of TNG the test had morphed into custom scenarios designed to push a prospective commander into a place her personality would not want to go.

Deanna Troi's test, which she failed multiple times, required her to order a crewman to commit suicide in order to save the ship. For Troi, one life is as valuable as hundreds of lives, and in this case it was taken up a notch by requiring the sacrifice of a personal friend. And she never knew it was a No-Win-Scenario until she realized that there was a solution. Or rather, two ways to lose.

Naturally, STO can't do this for every captain. But Troi's scenario was as emotionally traumatic for her as it was for the hero of ambassadorkael's story. It just takes a bit of suspension of disbelief which we RPGers have in plentiful supply.

I do hope there is a Literary Challenge for this one. Captain Uh'har and the crew of the Hov'chon Bom enjoy No-Win Scenarios. After all, they fought the Elachi, the Vaudwaar, the Iconians, the Nah'kul, and a host of other bad guys in a Hegh'ta BoP. The No Win Scenario is just another opportunity to earn bragging rights for them.

darakoss · July 2017

brian334 wrote: »

By the time of TNG the test had morphed into custom scenarios designed to push a prospective commander into a place her personality would not want to go.

Deanna Troi's test, which she failed multiple times, required her to order a crewman to commit suicide in order to save the ship. For Troi, one life is as valuable as hundreds of lives, and in this case it was taken up a notch by requiring the sacrifice of a personal friend. And she never knew it was a No-Win-Scenario until she realized that there was a solution. Or rather, two ways to lose.

Naturally, STO can't do this for every captain. But Troi's scenario was as emotionally traumatic for her as it was for the hero of ambassadorkael's story. It just takes a bit of suspension of disbelief which we RPGers have in plentiful supply.

I do hope there is a Literary Challenge for this one. Captain Uh'har and the crew of the Hov'chon Bom enjoy No-Win Scenarios. After all, they fought the Elachi, the Vaudwaar, the Iconians, the Nah'kul, and a host of other bad guys in a Hegh'ta BoP. The No Win Scenario is just another opportunity to earn bragging rights for them.

The test she took was a bridge officers test. Not the Kobayashi Maru test.

brian334 · July 2017

Quibble. The Kobyashi Maru is the command qualification assessment.

Troi was not a command track cadet, and so didn't get to take the test in the Academy. Officers who opt for command qualification later in their career must still take the test.

If the test is always the same and cadets talk about it, it becomes recognizeable and once the test taker realizes it's the test their mindset changes. It becomes a game, like the old Galaga game, where you know you will eventually have to put in another quarter. For the test to be a valid test of the test taker's character the test taker cannot know it's a no-win-scenario until he loses.

darakoss · July 2017

The test Troi took was not really a no win scenario. There was a solution to save the ship and her crew. While both are tests of character they are not the same test. As far as it KM morphing into several different test the only on screen evidence is when Tuvok mentioned it when the KM was replaced by a Ferngi ship and the attackers were Romulan. And even that one had a solution.

"Retaking the Test"

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