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Discussion Thread: Space Metagame Changes

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  • hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    OMG, here we go. If I was to get 1 Ec for every A2B post. I could buy each member of my fleet a JHAS.
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 785 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Crazy armor Idea, make armor scale linearly like damage. This would need a whole host of changes from adding a armor slot and making the armor consoles %upgrades and other abilities.

    Think of more like set number damage absorption, I would add they should limit the percentage you can absorb.

    As well as a lower limit that can be a special function armor slot items.


    This would make the system more approachable for new players, and make it more scalable.

    Problems, burst is likely to get worse, since its linear crits + crit severity will become a little too powerful, and would need to be tuned. The armor needs to be to be tuned with the max damage potential too.

    Also I hope we get to hear from adjudicatorhawk soon about what meta changes might be coming. Because I'm wondering how they are going to address the gap between engineering and science heavy ships Vs tactical heavy..( meaning ships with out lt com tac or universal) ( Or in general com tac vs com engi vs com sci)
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,737 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It would help if a dev chimed in and said weather they were still monitoring this thread or not. If so, further clarification of what they're looking for in terms of feedback is always good to keep us on track.

    That said, a small, niggling thing that has been brought up elsewhere kinda bugs me: Why are single cannons (with the exception of the Protonic Weapon) only limited to forward slots? I see absolutely NO argument about gameplay balance that should keep them from mounting aft. Single cannons should be allowed to go aft - period. If we want to sacrifice forward burst for rear damage, why not?

    This would at least increase the value and functionality of single cannons and increase the types of builds out there.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • ibreakbonesibreakbones Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I see a lot of good ideas here but we have to keep balance in mind. If you make aceton beam more powerful or decrease the cool-down then the target may as well abandon ship because they will never get off a decent shot. If you make tachyon beam totally drain shields then shields become more useless than they are now. (Sorry about my spelling.) We all seem to want to one shot everything in front of us. But is that really whet we need? We play because we seek thrills and challenges. Also I seem to remember the DEVs saying that they were trying to end the power creep. It is something to think about.

    Do we really need to mess with the existing abilities? ... In PVE

    With the exception of Boarding Party. I have never seen a shuttle make it to the destination. But you can get a few laughs in PVP as scatter volley or fire at will makes you look silly for using it.

    PVE is pretty solid. PVP? Well if you are Federation it is great. It seems like it would be a bit boring flying in circles waiting for the odd Klingon to come in, gang bang him and then wait for another one who dis not know how useless PVP is.

    PVP has a LOT of problems. One problem is the imbalance between Fed Ships and everyone else.

    I think it would be a better idea to focus on balancing the ships. For example the Bird of Prey should have 4 tac consoles to compete with Federation escorts. Cloak is great but it is totally useless if you explode the moment you de-cloak so to off set that maybe the shields should come up as you uncloak or just before. However that gets away from the TV series in which the ship is vulnerable for a few seconds as it cloaks or de-cloaks. Then in the series the Federation was peaceful explorers so you already blew that one as here the Federation are war like aggressors. It takes forever to raise your shields and with a paper thin ship hull it is even more worthless.

    Honestly, raptors do not compete with Federation escorts at any level. If the new raptor has 5 tac consoles and 5 forward weapons then it would be the first raptor that could survive more than 6 seconds in PVP. Believe me I will not waste my money on the new raptor if it cannot compete with an escort.

    Honestly I think the PVE aspect of the game is great. I really do not see anything that needs a major overhaul. The PVE skills (except for boarding party) all seem to be pretty balanced. However this game is the worst PVP disaster that I have ever seen with the exception of 7 Souls which went defunct. I do not know if anyone played it but it was a beautiful game, great graphics and PVP killed it.

    I think PVP needs a complete overhaul. I saw an article that claimed that STO does not care about PVP and considered removing it. I PVP once a week on Fridays so PVP is not my main thing. Sometimes I go weeks without it. Why? Because I only play KDF. Often times I am the only KDF in Ker-rat or however you spell it. And even though I am esay going it is no fun to be jumped by 15 Fed ships in my worthless paper thin ship with a cloak that is dispelled by every science ship on the map making a cloak totally worthless.

    I rarely see KDF in PVP because it is totally unbalanced to the point that it is useless. Fix it or remove it. I would like to see you fix it... if you can. I have heard that there is only one developer working on it. I am not sure if any of these rumors are true. But if you make a KDF toon and jump into PVP you will quickly see that it is totally neglected. One problem is the ships are not balanced. KDF ships cannot stand up to Fed Escorts. And when you have over a dozen of them on you what can you do? It is not fun. I cannot even see how it is fun for the Feds to gang bang someone and then spend the rest of the night flying in a Fed-ball waiting for someone else to come in.

    That is my 3.98 cents worth (2 cents worth adjusted for inflation). Take it with a grain of salt. However there is a huge imbalance between Fed ships and KDF ships. I cannot speak for Romulan because I only play KDF. It seem pretty hypocritical too because the Federation claims to be peaceful explorers and yet they have more warships than the KDF and Romulans combined. Just look in the C-Store 46 Fed ships, lots of tactical ships and not one single KDF tier 5 raptor. Not a single one. Count the ships. Around 23 KDF ships and 46 Fed. Look at the specs, many Fed ships have 5 tach consoles and only one KDF ship has 5 and it is a dreadnought. Are you freaking kidding me? That is stupid beyond words. Not a single KDF attack ship has 5 tac consoles and we are suppose to be warriors.

    So why would a KDF player subscribe or buy a lifetime when you can suck for free? You seem to forget that there are some players who like KDF. We have money too. I have no problem blowing tons of money on a game IF that game is interesting, fun but most of all balanced. I will not drop a lot of money in an unbalanced game. Why should I? Treat me like a paying customer. I have nothing better to do with my money as I have no life. I admit it. I am a boring little man with no life, a good job and you give me nothing to spend my money on. Maybe I should start dating ;) But look in the c-store. I am KDF. I have all of the useful KDF ships few as there is. If I played Fed you would be laughing all the way to the bank. But I don't so my accounting is laughing instead. Make him look silly and give me something worth buying.

    It would make business sense to offer KDF ships because people will buy them. It makes money. Try it.

    Ok now I am ranting because playing KDF all this time is frustrating at times and I tend to rant a bit. Sorry. But if you balance PVP then more KDF will play and you Feds will have more fun if you have more competition. Except for the ones who call me names because I fly into a Fed-Ball and kill one before they all kill me. Why curse at me if I take you out while I am drastically out numbered? I am confused about that.

    Anyway

    In summery. I think PVE is pretty solid. PVP is pretty useless and I am looking forward to new content. KDF ships would sell. Making money will make the game better.

    Thanks for reading my rant. But you knew when you started this thread that someone would eventually rant on it. But if one sentence in this rant made sense then it was worth reading.

    :)
  • saxfiresaxfire Member Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    ereiid wrote: »

    3) Driver Coil: I still have a few junk points sunk into it across characters; and it still feels like a deeply n00bular skill. Maybe give it a very low-grade combined speed/maneuverability/inertia buff at impulse? Or just at Full Impulse maybe?

    U did know that each point to Driver Coil boosts abilities that have any kind of fligh speed or turn rate?

    Examples: Apo Apa Gamma Pattern Tac Fleet(Trait) Evasive Maneuvers Deuterium Surpus

    Just examples. 1 Point in driver coil boosts them by 1%, essentially doubles the turn/speed bonuses.


    Driver Coil is OP as ****.
    Say the word, it saves the world.
    CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
    Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
  • schnirselschnirsel Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    saxfire wrote: »
    U did know that each point to Driver Coil boosts abilities that have any kind of fligh speed or turn rate?

    Examples: Apo Apa Gamma Pattern Tac Fleet(Trait) Evasive Maneuvers Deuterium Surpus

    Just examples. 1 Point in driver coil boosts them by 1%, essentially doubles the turn/speed bonuses.


    Driver Coil is OP as ****.

    O.o
    It's little secrets like this, along with all the other undocumented stuff that set amateurs like me apart from game mechanic gurus like you, mini or others.
    6pvmjHk.gif
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,446 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Way way too late for this, but I thought I might as well post anyway.

    Underperforming:-


    Boarding Party: Whenever I see this skill be used I just imagine the boarding party thinking "we're so screwed". Seems like you're addressing this though.

    Engineering console slots: They're a bit useless now really. EPS consoles weren't much use after the original weapon drain mechanics change and are nigh useless after the change to beam overload. Power boosting consoles are a waste of a console slot since their unintended nerf to half their original stats. Resist consoles have diminishing returns, making more than two a waste. RCS isn't really needed on a beam boat.

    The awesomely useful field generator consoles meanwhile was turned into a science console (even though the upgrade system seems to think it's still an engineer console) and made stackable.

    Meanwhile most cruisers seem to be getting an extra console slot in delta rising. As another player mentioned, this gives us an extra space to slot universal consoles.

    My proposal is that the stats for the field generator should be halfed and made equippable in both science AND engineer slots. This way ships with more tac consoles will be at a tanking disadvantage to those with more of the other two (instead of just sci console slots, which some escorts have more of than cruisers).

    Overperforming:-

    Attack Pattern Alpha and science powers: Just bonkers how much they can be buffed by a tactical skill.

    Feedback Pulse: Yeah.. this is getting a bit silly. A few stray shots from an aft turret takes 10k off my hull. FBP shouldn't even be able to reflect the damage 1-to-1, but reflecting it at an even higher value is beyond silly.

    Tactical team: Ever since it's buff to auto-redistribute shields it's pretty much changed the whole face of the game. Both in terms of making PvE absurdly easy and in making PvP such mess.

    Attack Pattern Omega: It's the one skill I will ALWAYS take into PvP, as it means I can ignore all slows and holds, while also getting a boost to speed, damage and defense.

    SNB: NPCs tank with ultra high hull and shield HP and deal damage with higher values. They do not use buffs. Meanwhile a player relies on his buffs to keep him alive, especially in PvP. Lose those buffs and he's dead in a few seconds. Basically the skill is virtually useless in PvE but an absolute gamebreaker in PvP.

    Shield absorpative frequency generator: Watch videos with it in use and see it heal ridiculous amounts. Especially vids featuring FAWing Scimitars, where their shield gets healed by 5000 points every 5 seconds. It should have a similar limitation to it as the Solanae set bonus, say 100-500 shield hp allowed over a certain amount of time.

    Superior operative trait: Let me put it this way, my Romulan has 5 Romulan boffs equipped with this trait. With his own superior operative trait that gives him an extra +11.5 CrtH and 28.8 +CrtD. As such his crit chance unbuffed is 29.6% and his crit severity is 98.9% (with rep consoles, fleet tac consoles and space traits). And that's without the two crit boosting lobi consoles.

    Seriously, it sometimes feels like he crits more often than not.

    Quantum absorption: Extra hull and shields? Don't mind if I do.

    Aceton Assimilators: I have them and I bloody love using them... but they are OP.
    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
    Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2014
    I'll give my opinion on soon to be released new meta. The whole shield bypassing damage is getting out of hand. You stack all of them and then why even bother with shields against people using so much bypass.

  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Are the changes to the space metagame(s) still getting on the schedule for DR? I haven't heard anything more since this thread, and we are less than a week from release.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Are the changes to the space metagame(s) still getting on the schedule for DR? I haven't heard anything more since this thread, and we are less than a week from release.

    Not immediately - we decided enough was changing with level cap increases, new content, new difficulty scaling, and all the additional powers and systems available in DR that we've pushed off changes to existing powers until after launch. They are, however, still on the schedule to do before the next major release. After DR releases and the metagame has time to adjust and settle, we'll talk more about what specific changes we're thinking about making.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • tonyalmeida2tonyalmeida2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Not immediately - we decided enough was changing with level cap increases, new content, new difficulty scaling, and all the additional powers and systems available in DR that we've pushed off changes to existing powers until after launch. They are, however, still on the schedule to do before the next major release. After DR releases and the metagame has time to adjust and settle, we'll talk more about what specific changes we're thinking about making.

    can one of them be fixing the fleet mark doff plz and can that happen sometime before the game ends?
    pvp = small package
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    can one of them be fixing the fleet mark doff plz and can that happen sometime before the game ends?

    That is not a metagame change, and it's not the only one broken anyway.

  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,105 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Not immediately - we decided enough was changing with level cap increases, new content, new difficulty scaling, and all the additional powers and systems available in DR that we've pushed off changes to existing powers until after launch. They are, however, still on the schedule to do before the next major release. After DR releases and the metagame has time to adjust and settle, we'll talk more about what specific changes we're thinking about making.

    Definitely reasonable. The new Intel powers alone are going to shake some things up, for sure. (I'm personally looking forward to seeing how EW:SS functions as a substitute for CRF and BO - perhaps even paving the way for mixed-weapon ships.)


    That said, I doubt we'll see much will change in regard to how little skills like Mask Energy Signature and Boarding Party are used. Either way, looking forward to it!
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 2,879 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    One huge change that I would strongly suggest... if anyone is interested in keeping with canon...

    Tractor Beam should be removed from Sci BOFF skills selection and instead made built-in on every ship in the game.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,229 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    westmetals wrote: »
    One huge change that I would strongly suggest... if anyone is interested in keeping with canon...

    Tractor Beam should be removed from Sci BOFF skills selection and instead made built-in on every ship in the game.
    Oh I'm sure we'd all love that, on both sides, but it begs the question of what they'd put in it's place :D And how everyone having it now would shake things up
    Was named Trek17, but still an author.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh'. I have nothing against the game/devs, nor any particular wish to talk bad about either, or praise most decisions. Still, it's better to be positive than cynical.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 2,879 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    trek21 wrote: »
    Oh I'm sure we'd all love that, on both sides, but it begs the question of what they'd put in it's place :D And how everyone having it now would shake things up

    I don't see that it necessarily would have to be 'replaced' by the devs. Players who are currently using it, true, would end up with space to add an extra BOFF power to add to their current builds - since they would no longer be using a slot for an ability which every canon ship has always had with the sole exception of the NX-class (which comes with a console with the same ability but a longer cooldown; and which by the way also didn't have shields, but does in-game).
  • jarodroto123jarodroto123 Member Posts: 1,337 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    can one of them be fixing the fleet mark doff plz and can that happen sometime before the game ends?
    lucho80 wrote: »
    That is not a metagame change, and it's not the only one broken anyway.

    what lucho said, fleet mark consultant has absolutely nothing to do with the space metagame, wrong thread for that
  • paradise1killerparadise1killer Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Ive played since beta, and the two things that have effected my playstyle is what follows.

    TT was change to distribute shield=everyone uses it=ddath of attack pattern beta ( cleared by TT).
    Fix remove attack pattern cleanse and applie it to with ST

    Tachyon Beam fully mini-max at launch could drain a opponents shield slowly overtime as shields increased tachyon beam faded away it is almost usless now.
    FIX Double the drain

    Also Ive dropped almost 2 grand on this game over the years, you know what grinds my gears the ship you buy with a super weapon (lances, ex) have to be spec in that damage type to be efferctive. This limits people who want to buy thim and players choice. Give us the option to change weapon type threw new dil console or built in menu option OR code it to change automatically to damage type with highest modifier. Its a win win you sell more ships people are happy you could even squeeze more money out for the option. ITS a win win.

    Points I agree with.

    .
    Cannon Scatter volley*: decent would like to see the cone removed and it instead do aoe based on the weapon arc's (turrets would scatter 360, cannons 180, dc & dhc 45/90
    Nova Core
    ParadiseKiller

    House of Beautiful Orions
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    ToLate
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    One big meta change that I would appreciate would be a return to having separate pools of skillpoints for ground and space instead of a split pool.

    Joined January 2009
    finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Tachyon Beam fully mini-max at launch could drain a opponents shield slowly overtime as shields increased tachyon beam faded away it is almost useless now.
    FIX Double the drain

    Frankly, the problem is every shield drain mechanism. I've only been here since F2P, but even I've noticed the uselessness of shield drains.

    Why?
    1) With each season they add more ways to keep shields regenerating more and more and also adding more shield heals, specially the Romulan with their Valdore console.
    2) The haven't done anything to adjust shield drains (Tetryon beams, tachyon beam, anti-proton sweep, etc.) to keep up the pace, and mini-maxing flow caps leaves most ships in a very vulnerable state.

    Meanwhile, they have added a lot of ridiculous mechanics that are pretty game breaking, specially with DR. Bypassing shields with a 50% chance, debuff clearing left and right for tacs and leaving out sci captains on purpose (intel trait excludes subsystem targeting), one hit vapes (they never really fixed that one, just made it better for mini-maxers).

    I hope the meta changes are meaningful. Frankly, as of Tuesday, it will be a big fat mess, and it leaves science captains with just one option to out DPS the rest.
    One big meta change that I would appreciate would be a return to having separate pools of skillpoints for ground and space instead of a split pool.

    ^
    This is one of the biggest annoyances with the game and takes most of the blame for people hating ground combat so much. Everyone half asses ground skills and then having to switch traits from space to ground and then back is a damn pain in the TRIBBLE. Why the heck have us do that if we can just work around it anyway for episodes?

    How?

    1) Slot traits for space if episode starts in space.
    2) Do space part get to ground.
    3) Beam out.
    4) Swap traits to ground.
    5) Contine episode.
    6) Repeat steps 1-5 back and forth as necessary.

    It's a dumb system.

  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,533 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm happy to see this is still on the agenda but science needs a revamp asap regardless of anything to do with DR as most science powers are:-

    A: Outdated due to power creep and need bringing in line.

    B: Overly favourable to tactical captains over science and engineering captains, usually due to how the skill table and aux power don't buff nearly enough compared to tactical captain and boff powers, this state of affairs should be reversed to give science and engineering captains more purpose. (see almost every damage effect)

    C: Made irrelevant due to player resistance or the perceived immunity in case of NPCs (see most disables or effect powers)

    The only effects I think don't need a major revamp but could still use tuning are heals and controls.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    adamkafei wrote: »
    I'm happy to see this is still on the agenda but science needs a revamp asap regardless of anything to do with DR as most science powers are:-

    A: Outdated due to power creep and need bringing in line.

    B: Overly favourable to tactical captains over science and engineering captains, usually due to how the skill table and aux power don't buff nearly enough compared to tactical captain and boff powers, this state of affairs should be reversed to give science and engineering captains more purpose. (see almost every damage effect)

    C: Made irrelevant due to player resistance or the perceived immunity in case of NPCs (see most disables or effect powers)

    The only effects I think don't need a major revamp but could still use tuning are heals and controls.

    Well, DR is "damage sponges online" so even if they revamped sci skills, they would still be junk compared to pure DPS as most sci abilities do nothing when NPCs are concerned. Going sci offensive (part gens) seems to be the only saving grace for science captains.

    Heck, they even kept subsystem targeting off the predictive algorithms intel specialization trait as a big slap in the face to science captains.

  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Feedback Pulse. - As the skill is designed for pve so it isnt completely overpowered, speccing and console slotting into it in pvp makes it completely overpowered, and it becomes a one press Iwin button that you can use every 60 seconds. the hull points in pvp just arent what they are in pve, so the mechanics working the same in both arenas is terribly inbalanced.

    I would suggest that the feedback pulse knocks weapons offline, or seriously reduces weapon power of the attacker, not instantly vape them with 100% bleedthrough and 0 resists.

    PvP has become a bunch of people scared to shoot at eachother, or people staring at the tiny little buff icons of their target waiting for the fbp to come up, so they can stop playing until it expires. I dont find it fun to use, particularly against people who might be new to pvp who might stay with it and invest in the game if they wouldnt die in 1 second everytime I activate fbp during the middle of their firing cycle.


    This is my sole problem with the game's mechanics, the only thing that keeps me from pvping. The silver lining in my pocket is that since I stopped pvping I have saved a LOT of money. So hey, maybe keep it how it is.



    Oh, and in no way can anyone ever make Tachyon beam worth a boff slot.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    pulserazor wrote: »
    Feedback Pulse. - As the skill is designed for pve so it isn't completely overpowered, speccing and console slotting into it in pvp makes it completely overpowered, and it becomes a one press Iwin button that you can use every 60 seconds. the hull points in pvp just aren't what they are in pve, so the mechanics working the same in both arenas is terribly unbalanced.

    I would suggest that the feedback pulse knocks weapons offline, or seriously reduces weapon power of the attacker, not instantly vape them with 100% bleedthrough and 0 resists.

    PvP has become a bunch of people scared to shoot at each other, or people staring at the tiny little buff icons of their target waiting for the fbp to come up, so they can stop playing until it expires. I don't find it fun to use, particularly against people who might be new to pvp who might stay with it and invest in the game if they wouldn't die in 1 second every time I activate fbp during the middle of their firing cycle.


    This is my sole problem with the game's mechanics, the only thing that keeps me from pvping. The silver lining in my pocket is that since I stopped pvping I have saved a LOT of money. So hey, maybe keep it how it is.



    Oh, and in no way can anyone ever make Tachyon beam worth a boff slot.

    And yet, HOBOs still knock FBP users down with teamwork and strategic vapes.

    P.S. Use Chrome to spell check. It was so bad I has to correct all the typos in your post.

  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,533 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, DR is "damage sponges online" so even if they revamped sci skills, they would still be junk compared to pure DPS as most sci abilities do nothing when NPCs are concerned. Going sci offensive (part gens) seems to be the only saving grace for science captains.

    Heck, they even kept subsystem targeting off the predictive algorithms intel specialization trait as a big slap in the face to science captains.

    While science post revamp may remain unable to play it's primary role that doesn't mean that it shouldn't get a revamp that would allow it to better serve it's secondary role.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Not immediately - we decided enough was changing with level cap increases, new content, new difficulty scaling, and all the additional powers and systems available in DR that we've pushed off changes to existing powers until after launch. They are, however, still on the schedule to do before the next major release. After DR releases and the metagame has time to adjust and settle, we'll talk more about what specific changes we're thinking about making.

    So, just like Secondary Deflectors then...
  • stoleviathan99stoleviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I want to share this post I made earlier and comment a bit more because I think it ties into this:
    So the wobbling "rock her" animation from the piloting skill "East My Dust" that was on Tribble was removed and will not be going live in Delta Rising.

    (Evasive Maneuvers: Pattern Delta from DS9, pretty much.)

    http://youtu.be/6K8XrICoTQk?t=1m18s

    It looked good on escorts and bad on cruisers. The Cryptic position is that they don't want visuals like that "always on" in a way that may disrupt players who didn't use a special ability... and that it didn't look right on many ships.

    At the same time, on escorts and small ships, it absolutely looks right to see the ship rocking and dodging fire passively while moving.

    So I thought of a quick idea. The idea is not so much a power gain for escorts so much as it is a playstyle change.

    I think it would make sense for escorts to have two "stances" similar to cruiser commands.

    One would be a Dogfighting or "Manual Navigation" stance. High evasion (with wobbling dodge always on for enemy misses) and high damage but while active, it would cause damage and evasion to scale MUCH MORE with flightspeed and impose MORE penalty for low speeds as a balancing mechanism. In this stance, basically, 50% impulse would be normal damage and evasion. Less would be less than is currently normal. More would be more than is currently normal. Players would be encouraged to keep impulse speed throttled all the way up all the time for escorts, weighting the damage potential of escorts with trickier maneuvering. In this mode, the focus is on making escorts trickier to pilot and more "berserker dodge, never slow down, hit and run machines." Maybe a turn rate penalty if need be to really balance this out.

    The other stance would be more of a Support or "Standard Formation" stance as a TRUE escort. In this stance, you are NOT encouraging tricky maneuvering and leaving impulse at full. Instead, you encourage conventional teamwork and actual escorting in this stance. Damage would be increased when targeting the same target as an ally and decreased when targeting a different target. Heals and buffs would probably get boosted. Maybe have power levels be lower but increase in direct proportion to your proximity to allies. In this mode, maybe you get a damage and durability penalty for flying fast and a boost for flying close to allies, emphasizing true escorting and support functions.

    Basically, I have enjoyed flying escorts. I like the turnrate, the cannons, the maneuverability. One key problem however seems to me to be that they are flat damage dealers in contrast with Science and Cruisers, which will always make them flatly inferior or superior.

    The idea I tossed about stances would be one way to address that by giving them two different damage roles dictated by stance and incorporating movement style into the damage equation. Many games that utilize a trinity system make great effort to give even pure damage dealers alternate ways of completing that task by focusing on armor penetration, burst, lighter but more sustained damage, or different resource pools like rage/mana/etc.

    I think a mode where damage is proportional to speed is interesting and probably echoes the original design goals for escorts more with cannons and high turnrate. Meanwhile, a more support oriented and stationary playstyle has emerged in play.

    I think by giving escorts two stances, you'd be recognizing two actual playstyles and emphasizing a tradeoff, which would make escorts both fairer to compete against and more interesting to play through the introduction of two either/or toggle stances. (One which supports and relies on berserker dogfighting, maximizing cannons viability and time in forward arc through turn and constant motion, and one which relies more on hanging back and "escorting" larger vessels, maximizing cannons through slower movement and maintaining a forward facing and/or using reverse to realign.)

    If you watch videos, some keep escorts at a low speed and reverse to keep enemies in forward arc while supporting teammates. Others (and it's a fun way to play) max up speed and play, well, more like a shuttle or fighter and rely more on dodge than low aggro.

    By making it an either/or choice with stances that support the appropriate playstyle (but which require one or the other), you introduce tradeoff which creates a more interesting identity, both FOR the player in the escort and FOR the opponent OF the escort in PvP.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,593 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Been playing DR a lot, and frankly, Tachyon Beam needs a serious boost because in PvE is does practically nothing now.

    On another note, nice new Tachyon Beam doff. Too bad it's a DR Pack exclusive.

  • playhard88playhard88 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Been playing DR a lot, and frankly, Tachyon Beam needs a serious boost because in PvE is does practically nothing now.

    On another note, nice new Tachyon Beam doff. Too bad it's a DR Pack exclusive.

    Shield drain is boring and frustrating. The only time when it worked was when tetryon glider was overpowered, and watch your shield being drain in a few seconds without nothing to counter it was no fun at all.
    If they bring back the shield drain, this is going to be really boring, you only need to coordinate the shield drain with the vape and bye (shield drain + hight yield with those nasty reputation torps = gg), we have enough with all the shield bypass stuff, add shield drain to the equation is going to be worst.
    I'm all forward in having more variety for builds, but i dont want shield drain back.
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