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Discussion Thread: Space Metagame Changes

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  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The biggest problem with this ability, is not only does it allow for quick cd's across the board, but also that it generates power in 3 subsystems at the same time, this means even more wp overcapping, high shield strength when ep2s is on cd, and even hih engpwr enabling you to obtain high impulse speeds, without the use of a battery for any of the 3 subs, nor the use of an emergency power either.

    And as many have seens, even the auxpwr sapping from aux2batt, has a point where it still provides auxpwr being reapplied back to that system, even when you just spammed aux2batt.

    So all in all, no single skill should provide the same results, as doubling up on skills, and ships limited by few tac slots, are not meant to be in the dps arms race in the first place.

    I hear people argue, oh well that would make those ships pointless to use, or useless in battle.

    No it doesn't, they serve a completely different purpose, it's just now with this ability you can multi-purpose the vessels outside of their original design.

    You don't need a vessel doing 10k to complete pve, and you don't need a aux2batt ship in pvp either.
    True, but it's totally boring and completely different to how trek ships work.

    Maybe look at it from this perspective, ppl want to fly cruisers (the most popular Trek ships outside STO) because they love them. But in STO they're put into the role of a teethless tank. It's only natural the ppl want to fly these ships different than originally intended.

    You can't apply generic MMO rules on a Star Trek game, because the very nature on how ship work in Trek is totally different the the (un)holy trinity.

    You can't blame ppl for wanting play a STO like a Star Trek game IMO.


    Don't get me wrong, AtB maybe needs a (little) nerf, but it shouldn't be removed completely from the game.


    How about this:
    yreodred wrote: »
    Auxiliary to Battery
    I can understand that many players view it as too powerful. Escorts become OP, but if it gets nerfed Crusiers would be the teethless bricks as before the introduction of A2B CD reduction.
    To prevent Escorts and similar ships to used A2B all the time (and become totally OP), why not make it more like Auxiliary to Structural?
    Example:
    Rank I: Lieutenant
    CD: 15 sec
    -30 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
    Allowed Technicans: 1

    Rank II: Lt. Commander
    CD: 15 sec
    -45 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
    Allowed Technicans: 2

    Rank III: Commander
    CD: 15 sec
    -60 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
    Allowed Technicans: 3

    As you can see the power buff has been removed and its CD reduction becomes really effetive at high level.
    So only engineering Heavy ships would really benefit from A2B, without nerfing them too.



    I think there are two different goals ppl have here.

    One
    , polish STOs mechanics to make it a "better" MMO

    Two, come up with ideas to make it more Trek.

    Both are incompatible IMO, since MMO rules completely differ from who Star Trek works.
    (btw. i tend to have a more Trek like game.)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yreodred wrote: »
    True, but it's totally boring and completely different to how trek ships work.

    Maybe look at it from this perspective, ppl want to fly cruisers (the most popular Trek ships outside STO) because they love them. But in STO they're put into the role of a teethless tank. It's only natural the ppl want to fly these ships different than originally intended.

    You can't apply generic MMO rules on a Star Trek game, because the very nature on how ship work in Trek is totally different the the (un)holy trinity.

    You can't blame ppl for wanting play a STO like a Star Trek game IMO.


    Don't get me wrong, AtB maybe needs a (little) nerf, but it shouldn't be removed completely from the game.


    How about this:




    I think there are two different goals ppl have here.

    One
    , polish STOs mechanics to make it a "better" MMO

    Two, come up with ideas to make it more Trek.

    Both are incompatible IMO, since MMO rules completely differ from who Star Trek works.
    (btw. i tend to have a more Trek like game.)
    I think the solution to Cruisers should involve having more offensive oriented engineering powers that still make the feel look like a Cruiser, not a space magician.

    A trick is to ensure that the real offensive power likes at the high ranking versions of powers. For example - Emergency Power to Weapons III could be a DPS buff comparable to Cannon Rapid FIre II on an Escort, but Emergency Power to Weapons I must remain feeble, because everyone has access to it, including the Escort with Cannon Rapid Fire II.

    Aceton Beam could also work more like DEM. (I believe it even is a Weapon Modification Subsystem power) - enhance beam attacks with the Aceton Beam effect.
    Then add a Torpedo enhancing power, too. (difficult to say what exactly, since High Yield and Torpedo Spread already cover so much ground, and you need to think how they interact with the torpedo buff powers from the tactical side.)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • redalerttribbleredalerttribble Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Alright, so.

    I'm a cruiser junkie. Not all of my builds use A2B, but some do. In fact I think it's the optimal setup for a Gal-X or standard AC for players without huge sums of cash or massive amounts of time and resources to tweak their builds. I would say it's almost an outright must for the Gal-R, since it is highly unlikely they'll be changing it.

    A lot of you folks want to nerf A2B. Fair enough.

    Question is though - what do you propose REPLACING it with? Not just something you and only you will enjoy that fits your precise vision for ship allocation. The popularity of A2B shows that a lot of cruiser captains want teeth on their ships, and "use an escort" is not something they're interested in. Entirely different aesthetic and entirely different playstyle. So.

    While I can't speak for AdjudicatorHawk on this, of course, I think if you present solutions and ideas with this in mind, you may have more success and be able to come up with something a lot of people can enjoy, rather than trying to force a rigid setup, or leave a gaping hole in builds where A2B used to be. It would likely also help keep the Trek fans AND cruiser fans happy, as it helps keep cruisers relevant for more than heal dispensing punching bags.

    You may not like it, but STO is not the holy trinity and probably never will be. But a dev is asking for input, and in this you can attempt to come up with something that removes an ability that offends you while satisfying the needs of a very large group of players. I would strongly suggest that those who are able to do so attempt to take advantage of this opportunity.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    *I would like to make a additional suggestion*

    Allow Starfleet Cruisers to equip multiple
    Omni-Directional Beam Arrays
    in their rear Weapons slots


    I know it sounds a bit off, but please give it a chance.
    Since i started playing STO, four years ago, i always felt that Starfleet crusiers where much too passive and defensive.

    Klingon Cruisers have acess to DHCs, and cloak.
    Romulan Warbirds have acess to DHCs, Battle(?)cloak and singularity powers.
    Starfleet Cruisers have ... ? :confused:

    I know that a very old debate and that Starfleet Cruisers get a tiny bit more hull, but STOs game mechanics allow to heal hull faster than anything. So a bit more hull is worth nothing IMO.


    My suggestion would be to allow Starfleet Cruisers (ONLY Starfleet Cruisers) to equip multiple Onmi Beam Arrays in their rear weapon slots. Namely more than only one, depending on their turnrate/size.
    It could work like this:
    Basic Turnrate <6 = 4 Onmi Beam Arrays/rear weapons slot
    Basic Turnrate 7-12 = 3 Onmi Beam Arrays/rear weapons slot
    Basic Turnrate 13+ = 2 Onmi Beam Arrays/rear weapons slot


    That wouldn't turn them into DMG monsters, but it would raise their effectiveness and first and foremost they would have something no other ship has.
    I think it would be much easier to implement this, than to introduce a complete new weapon type like "heavy Beam Arrays" or things like that. As many ppl have suggested.


    All other ships have so many possiblilites, like cannon builds for example, Starfleet Crusiers can't even make use of Torpedoes, since they would have to break from their Broadside position.
    Single Cannon builds are problematic too, since most Starfleet cruisers only have acess to Lt. Level tactical BOFF powers. So the only viable tactics is broadsiding ad nauseam, not very exciting IMO.
    I mean every Cruiser can broadside that's nothing special.

    Allowing more than one 360degrees Beam Array in the rear weapons slot of a Starfleet Cruiser would allow much more diverse playstyles.
    And btw. it would feel much more like Star Trek, if you hadn't to broadside all the time.
    It would open up much more tactical possibilities for those ships, without making them totally OP.
    It would make flying Starfleet ships finally a bit more entertaining and less boring.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • redalerttribbleredalerttribble Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    mosul33 wrote: »
    Another thing, not skill related, but involves meta game changes. Buff the duration of the phaser and polaron procs to 10 seconds and make the elite phaser shield heal proc a HoT for like 10 seconds. Every other procs have a duration of at least 10 secs, if not some even 15 seconds. But the phaser and polaron proc are having the shortest duration, been also very easy to resist via passive skills.
    A longer duration will make them better, more used and competitive with the other procs.

    It is very rare that I hear anyone compliment phaser procs, and that is almost always in PvP situations. Considering 1/3rd of the ships in game (by faction) come loaded with these, and that they are the default type for Federation characters, and that almost every special ship weapon for the Federation uses this, this really needs to be looked at. Adjusting Tetryon may also be useful. Unfortunately I can't think of anything especially good right now, though I do recall that, at least for phasers, someone noted having a built-in Acc bonus might be useful. Given that canonically phaser weapons are designed for tool uses as well as military uses, this would be consistent and helpful.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A lot of you folks want to nerf A2B. Fair enough.

    Question is though - what do you propose REPLACING it with? Not just something you and only you will enjoy that fits your precise vision for ship allocation. The popularity of A2B shows that a lot of cruiser captains want teeth on their ships, and "use an escort" is not something they're interested in. Entirely different aesthetic and entirely different playstyle. So.

    I think one thing i would do is change it so that the number of doffs you can stack depends on the rank of the ability you slot. That way only the ships with cmdr. level eng. slots can stack 3 technicians to maximise the cool-down reduction effect.
    This effectively limits it from being used as a cool-down reduction without any limits by ships that are not eng. heavy. There's no way an escort with A2B1 should be able to stack doffsx3 and get the full reduction effect.
    As most A2B users argue, its the only way to make cruisers valid so this change would not affect them as most cruisers have at least a cmdr eng slot. It should be a cruiser ability primarily.
    SulMatuul.png
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A lot of you folks want to nerf A2B. Fair enough.

    Question is though - what do you propose REPLACING it with? Not just something you and only you will enjoy that fits your precise vision for ship allocation. The popularity of A2B shows that a lot of cruiser captains want teeth on their ships, and "use an escort" is not something they're interested in. Entirely different aesthetic and entirely different playstyle. So.
    Cryptic is most likely with me on this, but I think that any given ship should be competitively viable without 'staple' skills and/or builds (which would mean that there should be no 'staple' skills or builds). I'd replace it with generally potent abilities all around.

    When done right, builds are good for a game and add variety. Builds add different playstyles and tactics if balanced. But if a ship is effectively nothing without a certain build, there's something wrong.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    /snip

    Aceton Beam could also work more like DEM. (I believe it even is a Weapon Modification Subsystem power) - enhance beam attacks with the Aceton Beam effect.
    Then add a Torpedo enhancing power, too. (difficult to say what exactly, since High Yield and Torpedo Spread already cover so much ground, and you need to think how they interact with the torpedo buff powers from the tactical side.)

    This right here is the best idea i've heared thus far for AB: Make it an energy weapon attack upgrade. I like it!
  • bridgernbridgern Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I can understand that people want to nerf A2B, but don't forget how much Fed Cruiser sucked before A2B, Cruiser Commands helped a bit but not much.

    PS: I don't mean the cruiser flown by Tacs and the boos of Attack Pattern Alpha and on some of them Omega.
    Bridger.png
  • alexlancosalexlancos Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So categorizing powers from the viewpoint of powercreep:

    good: anything directly or indirectly increasing dmg + healing abilities

    bad: anything that does no dmg or doesnt increase dmg in any way.

    I know it sounds vague and sound like love of powercreep but thats how the game works, the reason for power creep imho is the game content, or in other words the ultimate goal of ALMOST ANY MISSION is to defeat/destroy targets.

    To further clarify it, if mission involves anything other than groups of target, is usually just a button to press and has nothing to do with "non-combat" skills. (Note: would be interesting to see missions that require specific boff power and equipment to do eg: an anti enemy disabling torp and tractor beam to capture an enemy ship, with forced on equip builds would likely to do less dmg and might lower the difference beetween players)

    So lets address powers, as to why player chose one over another:

    Theorical situation: vs borg tractorbeam:

    Jam sensors, polarise hull, photonic shockwave, attack patern omega, or simply kill target. So whats the players choiche and why is simple.
    First jam sensors is a single target and has long cool down, with current lvl of avrege players dmg no amount of point in skill can extend the dmg lvl where the skill is ended therefore its short duration vs long cooldown is a bad chioche.
    Second is patern omega, dmg boost, defense, immune to holds, lot of good bosst even for its relative long cd of 1 min, but aviable at lt. cmdr. lvl and above and with non tactical focused ships the long cd and the likely limited tac boff stations the use of skill might be considered as a waste of high tier boff skill so this power is kinda ship specific.
    Third is photonic shockwave, breaks tractorbeam disables enemy, sound good except it has shoeter range than tractorbeam and require high tier sci boff slot, maxed out t5 sci skill for captain and all the sci consoles to buff its disble duration still only results in a few seconds at best, with the low base dmg and 3km range only few ships have the maneuverability and sci boff staion to use it and even then its a waste.
    Fourth is polarise hull, immune to tractorbeam increases dmg resistance, with the DR formula using this skill at any but lvl 1 is a complete waste, (i suggest adding additional buffs to higher tiers instead of plain stat increase) also due to DR formula the benefits of PH at high aux power and low aux settings is technically the same making it the seemingly best choiche.
    Fifth is to ignore tractor beam and just kill the ship that uses it on us, without APO, JS, PH, PSW we have other options for those paticular Boff skills to simply increase our dmg or use a heal instead.

    Summary: the players choiche of skill or why they considered underpowered is based on how frequent a skill can be used and the amount of benefits. In this example was to counter an often seen skill of tractorbeam we compared our options to counter it. Ultimately APO seems the best choiche and PH as alternative simply beccause the other skills while not underperforming, they do what they meant to, but simply by the limitations and small or no benefits, APO is always a good buff if aviable, PH is a nice cheap low tier resistance buff, jam sensors doesnt work on multiple targets and its duration is too low, PSW has way too limited range, the disable duration is too low and the push effect simply cause me lowered dmg due to dmg dropoff with increased distance.
  • redalerttribbleredalerttribble Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Cryptic is most likely with me on this, but I think that any given ship should be competitively viable without 'staple' skills and/or builds (which would mean that there should be no 'staple' skills or builds). I'd replace it with generally potent abilities all around.

    When done right, builds are good for a game and add variety. Builds add different playstyles and tactics if balanced. But if a ship is effectively nothing without a certain build, there's something wrong.

    I suspect that's going to mean some fairly thorough reworking of a lot of the space battle system. One thing that comes to mind is possibly making certain abilities built-in (to all ships or specific categories of ships) or have them toggle-able (e.g. shield distribution ala Tac Team). Someone else also mentioned bringing powers down to global cooldowns, and I could get behind that.

    Problem is that with a lot of things in this game you need to have the presence of an ability sufficient to chain it. If things were changed, e.g. you could withstand a pounding for some time without pumping EPtS and TT, then uptime wouldn't be such a problem. One problem I have run into, and I suspect a lot of people do, is that there is too much to pay attention to. Combine that with not being a twitch-reflex player and you've got yourself a sitting duck if you don't use rotated abilities with keybinds. Or in other cases you have a toothless wonder.
  • leethorogoodleethorogood Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My thoughts/observations:

    Tactical Team
    All of my builds on four characters have rank 1 of this ability for it's (quick!) automatic shield distribution effect and tactical debuff cleansing. I have never seen any reason/need/advantage to using the higher ranks of this ability over the other tactical abilities available.

    I agree with the suggestion to make the automatic shield distribution effect of Tactical Team become an innate starship/captain (passive?) ability as I believe this would be more like how shields appeared to work on the show. While on the topic of shield distribution I would like to further expand this idea/concept.

    By default starships would passively & automatically redistribute their shield hitpoints, however using any of the manual shield distribution buttons would activate the toggle ability 'transfer all power to the X shields' for that shield facing. This ability would instantly transfer all of the hitpoints from the other 3 shield facings to the selected facing. This would drop 3/4 of your shield facings however the remaining facing would be 4x as strong and regenerate 4x as fast. Using the distribute shields evenly (centre button) would reset back to the default (automatic) behaviour.

    Fire at Will
    Personally I don't really use this, only 1 or 2 of my builds across 4 characters use beams as I generally prefer cannon/turret builds. I would suggest however that IF you wanted it to look/work more like how it did in the shows then instead of rapidly hitting multiple targets simultaneously, it should still rapidly hit multiple targets, but one at a time in quick succession.

    In the Star Trek shows the command 'Fire at Will' wasn't a que for phaser/torpedo spam, it was a command giving the tactical officer carte blanche to target and fire the ships weapon systems as they saw fit.

    Auxiliary Power to Battery
    I don't have a lot to say about this other than, I don't agree with it becoming a Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr level ability in order to restrict it's use to cruisers, I would much rather see cruiser gain an innate (30?)% cooldown reduction on Bridge Officer abilities and removal of the relevant Technician DOffs from the game. This way everyone could still use AUX2BAT for its base effect of draining aux to boost the other 3 subsystems for a brief time, while still allowing ALL cruisers to benefit from the Bridge Officer ability cooldown reduction.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Personally i'd completely rework how STO handles things and make STO much more simulation like. (Similar like Bridge Commander)
    I'd remove BOFF powers and make those powers inherent abilities of a ship.
    (Depending on each ship you would get a range of possible Powers to use)
    BOFFs would only enhance those powers, dependent on their competence.


    But that's too much to ask for, i know.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I suspect that's going to mean some fairly thorough reworking of a lot of the space battle system.
    Probably. This seems to be the whole point of this thread though, and one of the benefits from raising the level cap as well. If there was ever a good time to rebalance the whole game, now's that time. =D
  • toofdkaytoofdkay Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    All abilities should have their ranks removed and be only one rank, none of this level 1 - 3 keeping them all on an even keel

    When your bridge officers rank up that should just unlock an ability slot enabling BO's to slot career specific skill's and only one copy of a skill.

    The effectiveness of any skill used on a ship should be reflected by the ships tier/class i.e different power levels none of this 120 overcapacity nonsense. power levels on ships should be tier/class specific.

    This would even the field across the board no one would have the edge regarding abilities.

    I could go into massive detail but I know that any wall of text would be flatly ignored (take note some of you) as you no way have the time to read all. I also wish that this isn't just another lip service to keep us busy while you do just what you want anyway.

    I hope this Leopard has changed its spots ;)
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My thoughts/observations:

    Tactical Team
    All of my builds on four characters have rank 1 of this ability for it's (quick!) automatic shield distribution effect and tactical debuff cleansing. I have never seen any reason/need/advantage to using the higher ranks of this ability over the other tactical abilities available.

    I agree with the suggestion to make the automatic shield distribution effect of Tactical Team become an innate starship/captain (passive?) ability as I believe this would be more like how shields appeared to work on the show. While on the topic of shield distribution I would like to further expand this idea/concept.

    By default starships would passively & automatically redistribute their shield hitpoints, however using any of the manual shield distribution buttons would activate the toggle ability 'transfer all power to the X shields' for that shield facing. This ability would instantly transfer all of the hitpoints from the other 3 shield facings to the selected facing. This would drop 3/4 of your shield facings however the remaining facing would be 4x as strong and regenerate 4x as fast. Using the distribute shields evenly (centre button) would reset back to the default (automatic) behaviour.

    Fire at Will
    Personally I don't really use this, only 1 or 2 of my builds across 4 characters use beams as I generally prefer cannon/turret builds. I would suggest however that IF you wanted it to look/work more like how it did in the shows then instead of rapidly hitting multiple targets simultaneously, it should still rapidly hit multiple targets, but one at a time in quick succession.

    In the Star Trek shows the command 'Fire at Will' wasn't a que for phaser/torpedo spam, it was a command giving the tactical officer carte blanche to target and fire the ships weapon systems as they saw fit.

    Auxiliary Power to Battery
    I don't have a lot to say about this other than, I don't agree with it becoming a Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr level ability in order to restrict it's use to cruisers, I would much rather see cruiser gain an innate (30?)% cooldown reduction on Bridge Officer abilities and removal of the relevant Technician DOffs from the game. This way everyone could still use AUX2BAT for its base effect of draining aux to boost the other 3 subsystems for a brief time, while still allowing ALL cruisers to benefit from the Bridge Officer ability cooldown reduction.

    I tell you what, for those who deem aux2batt's 30% cd, should be most optimal for cruisers, than why not build into the comm commands as an added benefit, problem solved there without being quite as game breaking as it is currently.

    This, would allow them to retain a full 15% reduction to cd's at all times, while keeping tac heavy ships more reliant, on using multiple copies of certain skills, like they most often do anyways.

    Doffs that reduce skills normally are still able to be applied, but there would be no technicians effecting cd's with use of aux2batt use, instead they would be altered to have some other effect.

    Really IMO, they don't need such a reduction for pve, because I have used cruisers that are tac defitiant, and granted it takes some time to eliminate tougher enemies quickly, but it can be done by tanking them alone, as for weak enemy groups you only need if so desired BFAW1 at best, and single weak enemies die from just regular beam fire.

    One of the best compromises I could suggest for cruisers.

    I know escort/sci pilots will scream bloody murder, because they cannot get some full time cd reduction, but escorts don't need it so much, and sci would have to have something implemented for them as well, but that is left up to ideas for what.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • wintiemintiewintiemintie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Theres alot of powers that should be beefed up, or changed. Theres alot of ideas I see that I agree to as well. One of the problems is the fact that, over all, Engineering and Science are kind of interchangable. They both heal, shields as well as hull. The only difference is, Science has better upfront damaging attacks than engineering!

    Engineering

    Boarding Party - This skill has no use at all in PVE, and I don't even think the PVP folks use it at all either. I think everyone can agree, this needs a serious looking into. An idea would be to give it a more diverse, or random effect. Like, a random chance of one of the following. Take shields offline. A sabotage bomb that does kinetic, unmitigated damage ( since its from inside the ship. ) Completely disable ship for a very short period, etc. This would possibly get people to consider using it.

    Eject Warp Plasma - I don't see this too often, if at all anymore, in PVE. I'm not sure about PVP, haven't touched that in over 2 years ( Back when karf'ki had only 1 hanger. ). Its subpar as a CC abilities compared to, say, Gravity Well in pve, mainly because its a static PBAoE that originates from you. It'd be more temping to use if it had a final damage, like say it ignites or something for a small spike of damage.

    Aceton Beam - The debuff and DoT needs to be more potent. Or have it, when activated for a limited duration of time, give weapons a chance to apply a radiation DoT and debuff. I'm stil lscratching my head over this.

    Tactical

    Tactical Team - I'm still scratching my head over this. The redistribute power function on this seems out of place. It should honestly be an Innate ability to all captains, or be an Engineering ability. It is just too GOOD of an ability to not have it on every ship. It should either be added as a new ability for Engineering, or have it tacked onto something else. I'm hesitant to have it put on engineering Team, you'd make ET in the same boat as Tactical Team is in. So lets say in example...
    1- Take Shield Distribution off Tactical Team and move an attack pattern anti hold, or damage resistance to Tactical Team while beefing its damage buff.
    2- Move Shield Distribution to Auxillary to Battery and RENAME aux2Bat to Auxillary to Shield Systems. Have this new ability Distribute shield power in the same fashion as Tactical Team did, just as fast, and possibly give it a shield damage reduction as well. Also drop it to Ensign instead of Lt for first rank so ships with few engineer boff slots can still pick up shield distribution.
    3- Change Technician Doffs to effect Auxilliary to Shield Systems to do something else. A shield regen on hit with Aux2SS on, faster distribution, Tiny, chances of mini RSP procs.
    Notes - This is one of the main reasons alot of people use Aux2Bat+Doffs on cruisers. Theres not enough tactical boff slots to do ANYTHING MEANINGFUL in PVE. All STFs are pretty much a dps race for optionals. Thats a given. This would actually free up precious tactical bridge officer slots to be used on actual attacks so older ships with very few tactical boff slots can be competitive in pve WHILE removing doubling up on ALL sci/tact/engie abilities. It gives older cruisers a much needed boost while eliminating any boogey man exploiting people claim. Its an amazing solution.

    ( This is from someone who does use A2B + Tech doffs on older crusier type ships. Negh'Var. etc. )

    Cannon Skills ( Scatter and Rapid. ) - These should honestly drop down to Ensign Rank. Their beam counterparts are Ensign and not Lt. after all for first ranks.

    Otherwise, theres not many things for the Tactical tree I'd liek to see changed. They're all pretty solid abilities. Except maybe give target systems abilities more oomph.

    Science

    Tachyon Beam - Really needs to drain shields for more, and add a damage resistance debuff as well! That'd make this ability a bit more juicy for peopel to want to use it.

    ( I'm not too knowledgable about Sci abilities, as I usually never use sci ships so never needed to pickup anything more than a HE, TSS, and Grav Well. )
  • galadimangaladiman Member Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I want to reiterate one of my listed ideas from my previous post:

    PLEASE have actual non-Cryptic staff PLAYERS test the pants off of this stuff.

    Call it 'Extra-Closed Beta,' call it 'Super Secret Double Confidential Wham-a-lam-a-ding-dong Beta Tester-motron,' whatever – just let 10 or 20 or 50 **good**, motivated, objective players really run the thing through its paces for WEEKS and brutalize it, abuse it, and take its milk and cookies away without so much as a by-your-leave.

    Swear them to "We will take your first born and expose it to continuous Miley Cyrus videos if you break the NDA" pinky-swear secrecy. Pay them in unlimited Tribbles. Whatever you need to do.

    Please. There are willing players out there who are available for free to fix it gooder. If I was at that level, I'd offer myself as first choice, but alas, I r N000by. But they're easy to find.

    Thanks for listening.
    Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
    It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
    THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
  • martakurillmartakurill Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Okay, here's my thoughts on the space metagame:

    1) Tactical Team: This power needs to be changed, as it is required on just about EVERY effective build there is. The shield distribution ability is just too useful to pass up, and I try to give it the maximum amount of up time.

    Suggested fix: As others have mentioned in this thread, remove the shield distribution power from Tactical Team completely and them improve the innate shield redistribution powers every ship has. After this is done, some more functionality of a different sort should probably be added to Tac Team, but that can be reviewed after the change is in place.

    2) AtB: I won't rehash arguments made here, except that there should be no way to essentially double the amount of skills one has in this game.

    3) Torpedoes & Mines: These need a major overhaul. In Trek, pretty much all ships have energy weapons and torpedoes. However, outside of torp boats or for the RP experience, they for the most part are not worth slotting. I really have no idea how to fix this - I'll leave that to the other posters in this thread. (Mines, btw, outside of the Nukara mine, are even less worth using...maybe buff the heck out of those but make them only usable on carriers?)

    4) Attack Pattern Delta: As others have posted, this skill is only really useful for cruisers, but cruisers can't slot rank three.

    Suggested fix: Lower it down to Ens - Rank 1, Lt. - Rank 2, Lt. Cmdr. -Rank 3. As for anyone who has rank three already trained, just change that to Omega 3 when you write the script. That's what a player with a Cmdr. Tac slot should be using anyway.

    5) Target Subsystems: As of right now, I can think of no reason to slot these abilities - their effects are barely noticable. No idea how to fix, except by doing something to make them better for Science ships.

    6) EptS: I love this power. I do. However, I can't think of a reason you'd ever NOT want to slot it / have it active. Most ships and captains require the shield resist from this skill to be effective.

    7) Aceton Beam: As long as it has an arc of less than 250 degrees, it will not be seeing use on the ships that can slot it. As other players have said, it is not very effective either. An Arc and effectiveness buff would be a good place to start, and then tune it from there.

    8) Extend Shields: It could use a better incentive for yourself to use it. See the new ground shield power from the Xindi lockbox. Otherwise people just aren't going to use it - people are selfish, you know.

    9) Proc based Doffs: I find doffs whose effect is percentage based simply not fun. No one wants to construct a build around random chance. Lower the strength of proc based doffs but make the effects guaranteed somehow, maybe?
  • caelrasstocaelrassto Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'd have to chime in with Engineering captain abilities being a mixed bag and could use some attention.

    Rotate Shield Frequency - Excellent. Wonderful. A favorite ability. Super shield hardening and regen on a good duration and CD. A perfect defense analog to Attack Pattern Alpha.

    Miracle Worker - Excellent. A good "Oh s***" ability. CD is long but adequate for bringing you back from the brink. I like the talent to make it more usable. Good example of a nice talent that isn't just stat pumping.

    EPS Power Transfer - Used to be a really good ability, but with the way skills, consoles, and power is in the game now, I don't really see a use for it anymore. There's just not a really noticable impact when I press the button. I think it is really good at low gear levels, but really poor at high gear levels. That's a problem.

    Nadion Inversion - Same as above. Power drain just isn't the issue it used to be. The concept is nice, but even at low gear levels the effect wasn't that spectacular given that it's only accomplishment was to increase damage, and it did so to a much lesser extent than all the Tac captain abilities. At high gear levels, again, I can't notice the impact when I use the ability.


    Personally, I think Tac captain abilities are a bit too strong, but that nerf is probably too rabble rousing.

    I really like talents, consoles, DOFFs, etc. that change how and when you use abilities. CD reductions, changes functionality of the power, increases specific functionality, adding procs, etc. These all allow the player to change their gameplay behavior. I think the balance on modifications like that is too DOFF heavy right now, and some of that type of behavior needs to be moved to talents.

    I don't really like small percentage modifications. If you only get to use an ability every 30-60s, a 20% chance for an ability proc isn't really a useful addition. It is not something that can be relied on so it doesn't influence gameplay behavior. I'm not going to change when and how I use an ability if there is only a 1 in 5 chance of some desired enhancement kicking in. I know small % procs are a MMO staple now, but it's never been a good one. Higher percentage chances, like 40%+, are high enough to potentially impact gameplay behavior. But reducing effects and guaranteeing enhanced behavior are even better.

    Beam Overload - I thought about this before the guaranteed crit buff, but I think Beam Overload should also guarantee a weapon proc. That gives a lot more dimension to the ability and your weapon choice. With the autocritting, you basically have already done that for Antiproton.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Since you asked about metagame instead of abilities... Couple of issues with the meta in PVP

    Engineering captains have no tools to buff spike/burst damage. They are able to do constant damage pretty well, and are able to maintain defense pretty well, but killing the enemy is all that matters in PVE -and- PVP, and if they cant buff short-damage they are kind of forced into support roles. It used to be that Nadeon Inversion gave a bonus to double-BO by blocking drain on the first one, but as of now they have nothing (dont even have a use for NI with single BO after powerdrain was removed). EPS does not buff weapon power over the cap, so it doesnt help for short-term damage either (it does help with overall performance, but that's not spike). NI is obsolete so some small buff to that would go a long way.

    Engineering BOFF abilities in general also limit engi-heavy ships to support roles (apart from a couple of things that kick in when fully exploited, like AtB and DEM). Engineering-heavy ships have the lowest damage potential, especially when they trade off other BOFF stations from the other classes. You really need to rethink this. One example: HE1 clears EWP3 which means ensign ability makes an Engi Cmdr ability moot. Cleanse abilities should downgrade a poison each cycle, until iit is downgraded to rank zero (and then it is cleansed), or something, so that the Eng ability has more relevance. That is just one example. Aceton Beam and boarding party are similarly pointless, when everybody has 1 or 2 TT.

    Defensive Engi BOFF abiliteis are probably too powerful. They should not give such huge advantages. Aux-to-ID makes you immune from half the stuff out there, and should instead just increase your resistance. Most of the Emergency Power abilities should be primarily about power transfer, and less about secondary buffs (EPtW does not need to boost weapon damage beyond what is buffed by weapon power, EPtE does not need to buff movement beyond what is buffed by engine power, etc). Tone some of these down.


    Sci builds that focus on disables are generally the least effective. Part of the problem is that there are a lot of immunities and counters--Aux-to-ID immunity to whole-ship disables, EPtX immunity to subsystem disables, ET clears all of them with no shared CD anymore, etc. Another problem with it is that even if you are able to disable a target or a subsystem, a big chunk of the disable powers are such a short duration that it doesnt really matter. At a minimum, disables should have a 5-second (unmodified) effect duration so that there is enough time for a full weapon cycle. Defensive skills should continue to shorten the duration, and offensive skills should continue to lengthen it.

    Singularity powers need a disable. Jump+battlecloak is too powerful escape mechanic, and there is no way to counter it other than gravwell the target after it jumps (whch doesnt do anything if the target has Aux-to-ID). I have suggested before, add an additional subsystem target mechanic that drains singularity power level (used for the ability tray), or reduce warbird impulse speed, or something. They have huge damage buffs, and perfect escape. They dont need them both.
  • amosov78amosov78 Member Posts: 1,495 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Nadion Inversion - Would this be a better ability if it converted a portion of the incoming energy weapons fire to add to your own weapon power and cap level, while lowering the incoming damage you receive from them for the duration?
    U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-71895 - Nebula-class
    Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
    Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
  • alexlancosalexlancos Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Possible alterations for BO skills:

    Science:

    -Jam sensors:
    -Jam sensors I: Jams a single target for full duration (damaging target does not break it). Upon expiration applies either dmg res debuff or bonus dmg vs target by the use of skill for 5 seconds (does not stack with flanking bonus), 10km range
    -Jam sensors II: Jams up to 5 targets in an 5km area for full duration, upon expiration targets recieve either dmg res debuff or bonus dmg vs targets for 5 seconds.
    -Jam sensors III: Jams up to 10 targets within an 5km area for the full duration, Upon expiration targets recieve a dmg resistance debuff AND bonus dmg vs targets for 5 seconds.
    Skills that affect this ability: Starship counter measure systems (increases jamming strength, slight bonus to AOE Range) Starship auxiliary power lvl (slight increase to dmg res debuff and dmg bonus OR slight increase to duration) Countering: negated by science team and/or hazard emitters, Starship Sensors grant resistance/reduces dmg res debuff/bonus dmg, reduces jamming duration user vs target countermeasure sys vs sensors, if target has higher sensors skill then attackers countermeasur systems then the dmg bonus/dmg res debuss is negated.

    -Mask energy signature:
    -Mask energy signature I: duration 20 sec, -15 power to weapons and shields, +5 power to engines and auxiliary, increases defense rating, immune to subsystem targeting.
    -MES II: duration 20 sec, -15 power to weapons and shields, +5 powet to engines and auxiliary, increases defense rating, immune to subsystem targeting, 10km AOE perception reduction to enemies within range.
    -MES III: duration 20 sec, -20 power to weapons and shields, +5 power to auxiliary (no change to engines)
    increases defense rating, immune to subsystem targeting, 10km AOE perception and accuracy debuff to enemies within range.
    Skills that affect this power: Starship stealth (increases perception reduction, very slight increase to defense rating) Starship electro plasma system (slight reduction to powerloss (max 5)) Auxiliry power lvl (very slight increase to defense rating, moderate low increase to perception reduction, slight/low to accuracy debuff) Countered by: tractorbeam disables it (other disableing skills too), Starship Sensors (reduces perception debuff and accuracy, if higher than attackers sthealth skill its negated)

    -Tachyon Beam: New name: Tachyon Pulse
    -Tachion Pulse I: (basicly its a skill that acts asa single cannon) firing arc 180, moderate direct gmd to targeted shield facing (6 pulse max), applies the same drain to other facings (escept targeted one) the same drain that current tachyon beam.
    -Tachyon Pulse II: firing arc 180, moderate direct dmg to targeted shield facing (max 8 pulse(optional), applies drains to other 3 shield facing with each pulse, very slight reduction to shield resistance.
    -Tachyon Pulse III: firing arc 180, moderate direct dmg to targeted shield facing(max 10 pulse(optional)), applies drains to other 3 facings, very slight reduction to shield resistance, disables shield distribution abilities for 2 sec for every 4th pulse.
    Skills that affect this ability: Starship Flow Capacitors (increases direct shield dmg by moderate/low amount, moderate increase to drain effect) Starship Subspace Decompiler (very slight increase to shield resistance debuff, low increase to distribution skill disable, Auxiliary power lvl (slight buff to all drains and dmg, does not affect disable duration) Counters: Science team grants immunity for 5 sec(or as long as sci team lats if the duration increases in the future) and negates disable effect, Hazard emitters grants immunity against the drain effects and the disable but not the direct dmg), Starship Power Insuators (same as it is now), Starship Subsystem Repair (reduces the shield distribution effect, if higher than attackers Subspace Decompiler the effect is negated)

    (Optional DOff active power for Tachyon Pulse, adds 25% of the direct shield dmg as hull dmg: Tachyon Burn (exotic particle dmg))

    Charged Particle Burst:
    -Charged Particle Burst I: 3 pulses max, 5km range AOE moderate shield (all facings) and hull dmg (50% penetration exotic particle (direct dmg) OR radiation (radiation burn)), disables cloaks and mask energy signature for 20 sec.
    -CPB II: 4 pulses max, 5km range AOE moderate shield and hull dmg, disables cloaks and MES for 20 sec.
    -CPB III: 5 pulse max, 5km range AOE moderate shield and hull dmg, disables cloaks and MES for 20 sec, applies system overcharge: EPS transfer debuff/ disable (optional).
    Skills that affet this ability: Starship Particle Generators (low/moderate increase to hull dmg), Starship Flow Capacitors (moderate increase to shield dmg), Auxiliary power lvl (low/moderate increase to shield dmg, slight/low increase to hull dmg), Starship Subspace Decompiler (slight/ moderate increase to cloak/Mes disable duration, slight/low increase to EPS debuff rate/disable) Counters: Science team (negates shield dmg, reduces hull dmg) Hazard emitters (reduces shield dmg, negates hull dmg) Engineering Team (reduce/negates(would be better just to reduce) cloak/mes disable) Starship Power Power insuators (moderate/high reduction to shield dmg) Starship Subsystem Repair (reduces cloak/mes disable duration if higher than attacker subspace decompiler then negates disable duration but still forces out of cloak) Starship EPS (obviously reduces system overcharge effect 1:1 ratio,if higher the attackers decompiler it negates it)

    Viral Matrix:
    -Viral Matrix I: Targets self or enemy, applies 1 sec cooldown to either tac/eng or sci abilities every 3 seconds for 10 sec (additional to existing cooldown on the skill if previously triggered).
    -Viral MatrixII: Targets self or enemy, applies 1 sec cooldown to either eng/tac/sci abilites every 3 sec for 10 sec, additionally: if tac skills are disabled it also applies the effect to weapons system,if eng then to engines, if science then to auxiliary.
    -Viral Matrix III: Targets self or enemy, applies 1 sec cooldown to eng, tac and sci abilities every 3 sec for 10 sec, additionally applies disable to all but shield substem the same effect.
    Skills that affect this ability: Starship subspace decompiler (slight increase to effect skill duration and power/subsys disable duration) Auxiliary power lvl (very slight increase to skill duration, no increase to power disable duration, very slight increase to subsystem disable duration) Countered by: Science team (negates VM for 5 sec), Engineering Team (negates subsystem disable), Starship EPS (if higher than attacker subspace decompiler it negates subsys disable) Viral Matrix (self) (removes enemy viral matrix if tier is higher or equal, VM I can remove the skill disable of VM II but can only remove it from 1 skill (sci eng or tac) vs VM III, VM II can remove 2 skill disable (random 2 of tac/eng or sc) vs VM III)

    Scramble Sensors: (no idea how to alter its effects without making it too OP or to be usable against singular target)
    -SS I: (copies 1 stongest/highest tier buff from an enemy???) unchanged original effect
    -SS II: (copies and removes 1 strongest/highest tier buff from enemy????? OP if we consider u can get stuff like APO3) unchanged original effect
    -SS III: (copies and removes 1 strongest/highest tier buff from enemy??? OP in pvp if 2-3 sci strip u off from all your good buffs and be way more powerfull than subnuc (would be a nice alteration to subnuc itself to make sci captain really good), though would be quite funny ^^, forces enemy to use debuff on sefl??? (if they have one at all) unchanged original effect

    Power Siphon: (this skill funcions underpowered and overpowered at the same time, maybe a different approach for alteration to make it stronger for user yet less dangerous to targets)
    -Power Siphon 1: Drains 1 random subsystem for x amount, 3 sec later x/3 amount is recieved for user in all subsystems, originall duration.
    -Power Siphon II: Drains 2 random subsystem for x amount, 3 sec later x/2 amount is recieved to all subsystem, original duration.
    -Power Siphon III: Drains 3 random subsystem for x amount, 3 sec later x amount is recieved to all susbsys, original duration, disables EPS transfer on affected subsystems for full duration (dont regenerates).
    Skills that affect this ability: Starship Flow capacitors (moderate/high (high since its limited to less than all subsys)increase to amount of drain), Auxiliary power lvl (slight increase to x amount drain, original duration increase) Subspace Decompiler (counters subsystem repair) Countered by: Starship subsystem repair (reduces EPS transfer disable duration if higher than enemy subspace decompiler its negated) Emergency power to [subsystem] (adds its power to the affected subsystem but doesnt counters EPS disable from PS III (if u drained to 0 in shields and use epts1 that gives 20 power then u get 20 power back but it wont got back to original while the drain is in effect) Science team (Sci team I negates drain on 1 random subsys, II negates for 2 subsys (in other words sci team can negate same tier of siphon)), Hazard Emitters (negates siphon for its duration (15 sec) (not the EPS disable)), Engineering Team (Negates EPS disable), Power insuators (just the way it works atm)

    Photonic Officer: (personally with a2b and various cd reducing doffs present, i'd give this skill a whole new purpose)
    -Photonic Officer I: Temporarily increases all tier 1 science skills to tier 2 for its duration (effect after PO duration that still persist wont be reduced)(NOTE: a build with PO I and 2xPO II with good timing would be 2xPOIII which maybe a possibility with the active PO excluding self under effect, for now PO does not affect self) original duration, (to compensate for possible OP benefits:) -10-15 aux power (optional on amount).
    -Photonic Officer II: Temporarily increases tier 1 sci skills to tier 2 and t2 skills to t3, original duration, -10-20 aux power (optional amount)
    -Photonic Officer III: Temporarily Increases t1 sci skills to 2, t2 to t3, t3 skills recive +50 skill ponts to all skills that affects it (since i try to make t3 skils tol have a special effect making a virtual t4 with additional effect is a possibility but might be OP as t3 skills aviable at lt. cmd station to making a 2x t4 combo virtually absolute OP), original duration, -10-20 aux power (optional amount)

    Gravity Well: (imo it works fine, maybe higher base dmg or a way to increase duration or lower the rate for dmg reduction further away from epicenter)
    -GW I: (higher base dmg or increased duration) unchanged.
    -GW II: unchanged.
    -GW III: (after expiration a 3 sec stronger pull then explosion AOE( like the romie warbird deaths or the risan cruiser console) unchanged.

    Tyken's Rift: (much love and hate for this one, in combination with other drains it can be quite deadly but on its own its usually countered by EPS or cant drain enough making it useless, so making it good of its own not not making it op yet keep it relevant with other drains... I'll edit it if i can figure something)
    -Tyken's Rift I: unchanged. (maybe higher base dmg??? (we have GW for it), less drain longer duration or reverse, wider AOE would make it a better cc but with less drain it wouldnt have much effect, in cobination with FAW+polaron+leech+aceton+100 flow cap (t5 romulan active rep pow) would be too good of its own
    -Tyken's Rift II: unchanged.
    -Tyken's Rift III: unchanged. (less drain amount, wider AOE, disables EPTX abilities maybe or reduces EPS transfer rates???? (2 sci with it is defenitelly overkill this way, not that multible sci abilities of the same dont does it yet)).

    Feed Back Pulse: (i'm no pvp-er but its common knowledge that pvp is the only place where this skill has use the way it works atm (npc doesnt have enough energy dmg to make this skill really potent, not to mention that one need a huge amount of aggro to make it work at all)
    -FBP I: (no specific idea, random ideas: make it a drain ability to gain weapon power??? (oh yeah science powercreep is all we need XD), same but for aux??? (the vesta aux cannons would love it this way), the pulse heals shields?? (valdore console->op shield heal), removal of the skill as it is and replace with something else???) unchanged.
    -FBP II: unchanged.
    -FBP III: unchanged (make it 5km AOE buff for team, exclude tac buffs!)

    I'll post eng and tac later, for now that sums up my ideas and thoughts about sci skills.

    Cheers.
  • leethorogoodleethorogood Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A couple of thoughts on shields

    Assimilated Regenerative Shield
    I understand this being a regenerative shield as that is what the Borg are all about, however shouldn't it also adapt to incoming fire, after all the Borg are all about adapting as well! My recommendation would be to remove the 15% Plasma resist and replace it with the [Adapt] mechanic from the fleet shields.

    Shield Types
    Regenerative - These need to heal faster to keep up with sustained damage, especially if/when all your heals are on cooldown. I propose Regenerative shields should tick every 2 sec rather than every 6 sec although by a slightly lower amount than currently.

    Resilient Shields - Resilience to me implies it can take a pounding with little lasting effects, I would therefore suggest that in addition to the 5% absorption/bleedthrough that these shields should come with an innate 10% resistance to all damage.

    Covariant Shields & Standard Shields - No suggestions.
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    8) Extend Shields: It could use a better incentive for yourself to use it. See the new ground shield power from the Xindi lockbox. Otherwise people just aren't going to use it - people are selfish, you know.
    There used to be one: Gariff Adam Lucsly. He used to provide much more, and it lasted the entire duration of the ability.

    Then it was nerfed to death, and now it's useless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm not sure if this has been adressed already.


    Low Level Engineering Powers share too many Cooldowns
    Low level Engineering powers seriously need a rework.
    They all share the same cooldown (except Eng. Team).
    A engineering heavy ship like the Galaxy -R has no choice but to use 2x EptX and Eng Team 1.
    (that ship is just the most extreme but other ships like the Excelsior, Star Cruiser, Negh'Var and many others share the same problem)
    There's no chance to use EptS3 or EptW3 because one low level spot would remain open.
    So it actually creates a paradox situation, where especially Engineering focussed ships can't use certain high level Engienering powers (especially those powers that could increase their offensive capabilities)

    Science and Tactical branches do not suffer from this problem, because their powers are much more diverse.

    My suggestion would be to turn some other powers, like Polarize Hull, Tractor Beam or even Beam Overload (example) into Engineering powers.

    This would also help to make Engineering less passive and one sided.




    Tactical Team

    It's very unfortunate that escorts (the most maneuverable ships in the game) have the easiest access to that power, although they COULD survive even without it.
    Other ships (especially slow turning ones) tend to have very few tactical stations at hand but since they can't turn so fast they HAVE to rely on Tactical Teams shield distribution ability. Those ships HAVE to sacrifice one of their precious offensive stations in order to have acess to Tactical Team.
    So what TT does is to enhance the tactical disadvantage of big ships in favour of escorts. (remember in Trek the big ships where the most powerful, defiant was only super strong for it's size) It basicly greatens the gap between ships with few Tac stations and those with many.

    Tactical Teams shield distribution ability is essential on every serious ship build.
    My sollution for this one sided situation would be to give Science Team and Engineering Team the same shield distribution ability. This could be done via a special DOFF that unlocks that ability.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Part of my problem with this and I will specify as much as I can on the issue.

    Okay so I am clear on the fact that all of us pretty much love star trek and it is a show about the federation/federation flagship for the most part. Knowing this I know the most important thing on keeping the game going forward is content based on what Star Trek is.

    Now for the metagame issue the Romulan ships pretty much were launched out the gate of LoR being on par with what the federation ships have and then some. Although the KDF was completely behind until we have a mogh because the bortasqu' was launched based on federation feedback to make them happy so that ship was never useful. What needs to be done is anytime any ship is out there being released KDF or not it must reflect to the user of a non-federation character that they are not completely out classed like it is right now.

    As well it doesn't have to be a copy and paste if you are going to wait so long and such to do anything for the KDF build it Klingon lol not just a copy and paste of federation which to some degree did happen with the mogh which I love way better than the avenger.

    Edit: Some of the major things like flanking was a nice touch to the bops but we still don't have a way to extend our cloak ambush like the reman traits do for romulan republic characters can and also the cd on battle cloak only available by boff for KDF in the manner of a heavy heavy price tag of fleet credit. We really need to be able to have options and also some ships like hoh'sus need an alternate costume to use and b'rel needs to be able to use the costume that the c-store one can but doesnt work on the fleet brel. Just a few things that could be done to make most of the KDF happy campers when it comes to this topic.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Tachyon Beam - Give it a 180 degree arc instead of the 90 degree one. Leave the 10 pulses. Add a shield resistance debuff (To counter fleet shields).

    Note: I discovered by accident while testing in system space that one of the cruiser commands inadvertently boosts Tachyon Beam, probably a bug. had to get away from the cruiser to continue my testing.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,185 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The biggest problem with this ability, is not only does it allow for quick cd's across the board, but also that it generates power in 3 subsystems at the same time, this means even more wp overcapping, high shield strength when ep2s is on cd, and even high engpwr enabling you to obtain high impulse speeds, without the use of a battery for any of the 3 subs, nor the use of an emergency power either.

    And as many have seen, even the auxpwr sapping from aux2batt, has a point where it still provides auxpwr being reapplied back to that system, even when you just spammed aux2batt.

    So all in all, no single skill should provide the same results, as doubling up on skills, and ships limited by few tac slots, are not meant to be in the dps arms race in the first place.

    I hear people argue, oh well that would make those ships pointless to use, or useless in battle.

    No it doesn't, they serve a completely different purpose, it's just now with this ability you can multi-purpose the vessels outside of their original design.

    You don't need a vessel doing 10k to complete pve, and you don't need a aux2batt ship in pvp either.


    I have a few friends that have shown me they can run max power in all 4 subsystems almost all the time. In fact, with the AMP singularity core, they can have higher DPS than A2B builds can, and have 125 or more in all subsystems. The key to their build is the singularity core's singularity charge. Does this mean that the singularity cores need to be nerfed now?

    The subsystems are not the problem. Especially when there are other skills, DOFFs, batteries, and other things that will give the same result, or better.

    Blaming it on the power in the subsystems opens up all skills, consumables, cores, anything that will allow for someone to have high power levels in more than three subsystems, and still be able to get auxiliary power building up at the same time to being nerfed. Where will it stop? Will the Plasmonic Leech need to be nerfed? It has helped a lot of players to keep high power in all 4 subsystems, and even has helped non-A2B builds to out DPS A2B.

    So, what is the real problem with A2B? Is it that some assume it is causing others to get high DPS? It has been proven many times that the highest DPS builds are NOT running A2B. This means that it is not the power in the three subsystems that is making the difference. It will only help with survivability.

    Also, I have heard of others mentioning the over capping of weapons power. What a lot of players that complain about it don't realize is that once you get so much power into the weapons subsystem, any more is wasted. The only thing that having more than 125 weapons power will do is help refill your weapons power faster after it is drained. However, when I use A2B, it doesn't fill any faster than it did before. The reason is because I have maxed the power in the subsystems tray, and have a space set, as well as anything else I can find to increase weapons power.

    Therefore, when I use A2B, I am not increasing my weapons damage at all. That is why my ships that have the capability of running either A2B, or having two tactical stations that are Lt. Commander or higher will be able to do the same damage either way. The only difference is the survivability.

    And giving ships with only a Lt. station the ability to use A2B will not make them "be in the dps arms race". If it did, then why would so many with the Galaxy dreadnought ship be asking for at least a Lt. Commander station? So by claiming that A2B will make a ship like that be in the DPS arms race is inaccurate, because it is far from it.

    However, it is able to do more DPS than it probably should. Is that because of the A2B skill? No. That is because of the way Beam: Fire at Will works. It increases the accuracy of your beams (A2B doesn't do it), and it rapid fires at the same time (again, not because of A2B).

    Now, if BFAW was nerfed, then it will help to stop a lot of the DPS. Think about it like this, if I had my Scimitar set up with an A2B build, and all beams, with BFAW, then I am doing the same DPS with a fully charged singularity core as I would if I had used my Lt. Commander universal station as a tactical. This shows that it isn't the A2B skill causing the problem.

    You mentioned the power levels in engines, and shields. They will only help with survivability. Yet, the only times you really need this is when you are getting your butt stomped. Having it running almost all the time means very little, unless you are drawing agro. But, then again, if you are in a cruiser, or other ships that have no better than a Lt. station, then you already have better hull, and shields. So, you can just wait to pop a battery, or EPTS/EPTE, or evasive.

    Therefore, A2B is not the problem, when the increased power to shields, and engines only helps when you agro the enemy. The over capping with weapons power can be done without even using batteries, or A2B.

    Now, when you are playing in PVP, that is another story. And, as mentioned before, there are other ways to get higher DPS than A2B, and I have been told they cost a lot less to do.
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  • janetza#4790 janetza Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Please return Beam Overload to where it was and use basic mechanics and common sense when you want to make something new. It is Sci-Fi game so it has to be based on it. Please don't make abilities which have no downs (watch current Beam Overload).

    Pulling all the feedback to one thread might make it ineffective and I doubt it shall be really monitored and read.

    Anyways, here is my few ec's for this thread:
    You could redesign Attack Pattern Omega so it would give immunity to control abilities, but not damage immunity from them. So while tractors can't hold ship, they can still damage it. Currently escorts can have all immune builds against all sci abilities.

    There is not much to add, but it would be nice a bit to fix the old game mechanics which are great. There are many builds being used. it is a false impression everything is bound to one set of gear and skills. I use many skills and many gear options to suit any situation. I use different builds for pvp(anti-vaper, anti-faw, cheese build, kinetic damager, healer support) and PvE build separately. The problem is many don't know what skill to use when so they stick to the old proven way instead searching for new strategies. AtB is best example.

    Oh, and nerf faw. What a skill is to run AtB and spam faw pressure damage?

    Thanks, if you have read this.
    __________________
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