For an amount much less than the borg proc per tick - for a 3 piece set of which is one piece is an *optional* 600-800* lobi item.
Why couldn't they make the heal amount proportional to the amount of *science* a ship does or something mildly creative.
1020 hp isn't bad. I actually think it's pretty balanced. I think they capped it because of how OP the valdore console is, but if they ever change that, there's going to be massive crying. Really, when they fixed it from 2000% heals to merely 200% (like the tool tip says) people threatened to quit the game... and it's still massively strong.
1020 hp isn't bad. I actually think it's pretty balanced. I think they capped it because of how OP the valdore console is, but if they ever change that, there's going to be massive crying. Really, when they fixed it from 2000% heals to merely 200% (like the tool tip says) people threatened to quit the game... and it's still massively strong.
And as long as that sort of thing continues to be a decisive factor in balancing, we can't have properly balanced PvP. Or a game that's to be balanced in the long run. Instead, we'll have infinite power creep, both offensive and defensive, and continuous cycles of obsoletion.
Dumb change, the set should provide large hull ships with an advantage, considering they have higher hull regen rates to begin with, but must also suffer faster crew loss.
So now you want to again give a clearly distinctive advantage to smaller hull vessels once again. :mad:
Dumb change, the set should provide large hull ships with an advantage, considering they have higher hull regen rates to begin with, but must also suffer faster crew loss.
So now you want to again give a clearly distinctive advantage to smaller hull vessels once again. :mad:
The heal proc does still scale with ship type. The problem was, prior to this fix, the hull heal was effectively "double dipping" in terms of the proc strength. Naturally, Cruisers were befitting more from this bug and they will continue to benefit after the patch. We just won't have heal procs healing what is effectively 60-80% of the cruiser's total hull every time the proc activates. Do remember that the hull proc is a supplement to the +0.35 hull regeneration (+35% total hull regeneration/minute). This set is still extremely powerful when used on cruisers, but less over the top. In all honestly, you'd need to knock that +0.35 hull regeneration down to +0.15 to truly make that set bonus balanced.
I don't use Borg sets but I have seen friends using it against me in tests. Case in point, the friend is a veteran Tact pvper in a Cruiser (60K+ hull) with double A2B, 8 beams, RSP, DEM III. When he didn't use the Borg set, his A2B Cruiser went belly up in less than 2 minutes (more like 1 minute + some seconds) against a single Science ship. When he used Borg set, his survivability dramatically increased. Granted, he may also be a bit more defensive when using the Borg set but overall, Borg Set kept him alive a lot longer. In fact, I would go as far as saying he probably would have been very hard to kill if not for losing his patience and started to abandon his defensive posture after 10+minutes, opened up and thereby exposing his weak points.
It's plainly obvious to me the Borg set 2 piece bonus is badly broken despite never used it myself. There is no way a ship which barely survived 1 minute can suddenly outlast 10-15X longer by simply switching the equipment, everything else being equal. In this sense, I am glad Cryptic finally grew the spine to fix this bug. Otherwise, with the current mess of multiple instant and simultaneous heals + Borg 2 pieces, this game is simply unplayable.
I don't use Borg sets but I have seen friends using it against me in tests. Case in point, the friend is a veteran Tact pvper in a Cruiser (60K+ hull) with double A2B, 8 beams, RSP, DEM III. When he didn't use the Borg set, his A2B Cruiser went belly up in less than 2 minutes (more like 1 minute + some seconds) against a single Science ship. When he used Borg set, his survivability dramatically increased. Granted, he may also be a bit more defensive when using the Borg set but overall, Borg Set kept him alive a lot longer. In fact, I would go as far as saying he probably would have been very hard to kill if not for losing his patience and started to abandon his defensive posture after 10+minutes, opened up and thereby exposing his weak points.
It's plainly obvious to me the Borg set 2 piece bonus is badly broken despite never used it myself. There is no way a ship which barely survived 1 minute can suddenly outlast 10-15X longer by simply switching the equipment, everything else being equal. In this sense, I am glad Cryptic finally grew the spine to fix this bug. Otherwise, with the current mess of multiple instant and simultaneous heals + Borg 2 pieces, this game is simply unplayable.
What is unclear to me right now is if the bugfix actually constitutes such a major change. It depends on whether the modifier was something like 0.8 to 1.2 now reset to 1.0 for all ships (which might be variance between a BOP and a Cruiser) or was something like 8 to 12 and is now reset to 1...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
God forbid healer classes become a requirement for PvE teams. Teamwork is great as long as it revolves around lt cmdr and cmd tac skills, not so much for Eng or sci lvl3 skills n up.
Soooo much hurting of the buttz!
I wholeheartedly APPROVE of anything that makes needing any one specific build or role unnecessary. In particular, the healing role is often avoided by most players making groups hard to come by for everyone else.
Besides, how ridiculous is it that space ships need "healers"? At best "cross healing" should be bolstering another ship's shields and maybe integrity fields, making "healers" be more of a support role.
Also, everyone knows healers smell and look funny.
I've seen a 55k+ hull ship with the assimilated 2 piece and with 40%-50% hull res lose about 10% hull per second with RSP up (full shields) from massed bleedthrough.
So tbh, I haven't even noticed this issue with powerhouse bleedthrough or alternatively insta-vape clickies that don't care how much the target heals because the target is already dead.
Glad they are looking into this, I guess?
This is like re-organizing your toothpicks during a tornado.
What is unclear to me right now is if the bugfix actually constitutes such a major change.
On tribble it's giving me 1,600 per tick, which is 1,000 less then what I'm getting on holodeck. So for me it's basically a free high aux HE2 (heal not cleanse obviously) every minute, which is a little less absurd than what it was before. Still a lot though.
I suspect it'll still be the number one 2-piece bonus.
You whiny PvP people! Every time someone is even remotely able to have a good heal, you go cry to a dev to get it nerfed! And now you got my 2-piece Borg set nerfed. Proud of yourself, little man?!
It's high time they pulled the plug on PvP altogether; and the horse you rode in on.
You whiny PvP people! Every time someone is even remotely able to have a good heal, you go cry to a dev to get it nerfed! And now you got my 2-piece Borg set nerfed. Proud of yourself, little man?!
It's high time they pulled the plug on PvP altogether; and the horse you rode in on.
[/rant]
Imagine if they removed all the silly proc heals?
Heck, imagine if they removed all the silly heals?
Boosted hull health and shield cap?
The borg set is essential in elite stfs for survival, with this nerf my survival rate will drop
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
You whiny PvP people! Every time someone is even remotely able to have a good heal, you go cry to a dev to get it nerfed! And now you got my 2-piece Borg set nerfed. Proud of yourself, little man?!
It's high time they pulled the plug on PvP altogether; and the horse you rode in on.
[/rant]
Thanks, we are glad you feel that way. Our only regret is that it wasn't nerfed enough. Seriously though, the change they made wasn't a nerf, it was merely a bug fix.
The borg set is essential in elite stfs for survival, with this nerf my survival rate will drop
If it is essential for your survival, then you need to reanalyze your playstyle. One proc should not mean the difference between living and dying in an STF.
Thanks, we are glad you feel that way. Our only regret is that it wasn't nerfed enough. Seriously though, the change they made wasn't a nerf, it was merely a bug fix..
Uh-huh. 2 years after the latest nerf 'suddenly' they find a bug?! Riiiight.
Thanks, we are glad you feel that way. Our only regret is that it wasn't nerfed enough. Seriously though, the change they made wasn't a nerf, it was merely a bug fix.
If it is essential for your survival, then you need to reanalyze your playstyle. One proc should not mean the difference between living and dying in an STF.
I play a hit and run style, the 2 piece helps on the repairs before i launch another quick strafing run and yes i fly a fleet defiant so i don't have the luxury of cruiser level engineering slots
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
You whiny PvP people! Every time someone is even remotely able to have a good heal, you go cry to a dev to get it nerfed! And now you got my 2-piece Borg set nerfed. Proud of yourself, little man?!
It's high time they pulled the plug on PvP altogether; and the horse you rode in on.
[/rant]
Are you serious? What does pvp have to do with the devs saying it was bugged and fixed it? There's bugs from before f2p that still exist. Please don't blame everything you deem a "nerf" to be pvp's fault.
Uh-huh. 2 years after the latest nerf 'suddenly' they find a bug?! Riiiight.
The bug was found after stats showed it healed more than all other hull heals combined. Something was definitively broken, it just took a player's years of data mining the combat logs to get the devs to take a second look. The heal was way over the top. Glad it's being brought back down to something reasonable.
I play a hit and run style, the 2 piece helps on the repairs before i launch another quick strafing run and yes i fly a fleet defiant so i don't have the luxury of cruiser level engineering slots
Read the whole thread please. Borticus has been quoted saying that this will acutally mean a more significant heal for smaller ships with lower hull strength. So you will be made more durable.
The bug was found after stats showed it healed more than all other hull heals combined. Something was definitively broken, it just took a player's years of data mining the combat logs to get the devs to take a second look. The heal was way over the top. Glad it's being brought back down to something reasonable.
More heals than other hull heals combined?! So, better than MW3? Or HE3? Yeah, I don't think so. It offered good heals, but nothing as outrageous as you claim; and nothing so outrageous that anyone, including you, felt like taking a look at it earlier either, apparently.
Read the whole thread please. Borticus has been quoted saying that this will acutally mean a more significant heal for smaller ships with lower hull strength. So you will be made more durable.
My Mobius was doing fine with the pre-nerf version, thank you. And it will do worse with the nerfed version, guaranteed.
If it is essential for your survival, then you need to reanalyze your playstyle. One proc should not mean the difference between living and dying in an STF.
I play a hit and run style, the 2 piece helps on the repairs before i launch another quick strafing run and yes i fly a fleet defiant so i don't have the luxury of cruiser level engineering slots
And your point? I flew a fleet defiant for a long time, more than a year ago. Never used the Borg set. And the Borg STFs were tougher back then because we didn't have as much power creep, nor was their damaged as nerfed as it is now. And I didn't really have a problem with them. You should be fine in that little ship. It's not as squishy as you might think, especially with these Borg now.
Pop an aux battery, hit HE and TSS, and keep shooting.
And your point? I flew a fleet defiant for a long time, more than a year ago. Never used the Borg set. And the Borg STFs were tougher back then because we didn't have as much power creep, nor was their damaged as nerfed as it is now. And I didn't really have a problem with them. You should be fine in that little ship. It's not as squishy as you might think, especially with these Borg now.
I've heard the very same (invalid) arguments over and over again, when I was still playing EvE Online. An endless stream of ppl telling me I don't really *need* the epensive gear or ships to survive. All PvP-ers, of course. Meanwhile utterly not grasping that I simply *want* the good ships and gear. Has got nothing to do with survival.
It's about investment and trust, though. When something as widely used as the Borg set is not immediately fixed, and left 'as is' for several years, then it becomes reasonable to rely on its functionality as a behavior that was intended. Yes, even when it's good. To then wake up one day and hear all your 16 sets are gonna be nerfded after all, that stings, and it sucks (not necessarily in that particular order). And no amount of PvP-grandstanding about being able to survive *with* the nerf is gonna change that.
I've heard the very same (invalid) arguments over and over again, when I was still playing EvE Online. An endless stream of ppl telling me I don't really *need* the epensive gear or ships to survive. All PvP-ers, of course. Meanwhile utterly not grasping that I simply *want* the good ships and gear. Has got nothing to do with survival.
It's about investment and trust, though. When something as widely used as the Borg set is not immediately fixed, and left 'as is' for several years, then it becomes reasonable to rely on its functionality as a behavior that was intended. Yes, even when it's good. To then wake up one day and hear all your 16 sets are gonna be nerfded after all, that stings, and it sucks (not necessarily in that particular order). And no amount of PvP-grandstanding about being able to survive *with* the nerf is gonna change that.
You really hate PvP players it seems. It' not like every PvP player actually wants seperate regulation for PvP and PvE, but that's apparently not what Cryptic wants (they have the ingame mechanic to let players be differently affected by other players abilities, but don't use it).
And once again. THIS IS NOT A NERF. This isn't being done for balance reason even if it has balance implications. It's simply a bugfix. Why don't you simply log into tribble and test it out for yourself? See if the fix actually makes a huge difference. But no, you simply sit here and rant about PvP ruining everything ... It's an MMO, balance passes have to be made (even though Cryptic is pretty reluctant doing them) sometimes. It's what you have to expect.
Comments
yeah that set is actually kinda good. The engines are amazing and if you got the core you can still run fleet shields.
Why do they double proc if they are limited to 1 proc a second?
it's not double proccing it's giving it a better chance to proc since things proc on dem too..so it does proc almost every second
Why couldn't they make the heal amount proportional to the amount of *science* a ship does or something mildly creative.
1020 hp isn't bad. I actually think it's pretty balanced. I think they capped it because of how OP the valdore console is, but if they ever change that, there's going to be massive crying. Really, when they fixed it from 2000% heals to merely 200% (like the tool tip says) people threatened to quit the game... and it's still massively strong.
And as long as that sort of thing continues to be a decisive factor in balancing, we can't have properly balanced PvP. Or a game that's to be balanced in the long run. Instead, we'll have infinite power creep, both offensive and defensive, and continuous cycles of obsoletion.
So now you want to again give a clearly distinctive advantage to smaller hull vessels once again. :mad:
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The heal proc does still scale with ship type. The problem was, prior to this fix, the hull heal was effectively "double dipping" in terms of the proc strength. Naturally, Cruisers were befitting more from this bug and they will continue to benefit after the patch. We just won't have heal procs healing what is effectively 60-80% of the cruiser's total hull every time the proc activates. Do remember that the hull proc is a supplement to the +0.35 hull regeneration (+35% total hull regeneration/minute). This set is still extremely powerful when used on cruisers, but less over the top. In all honestly, you'd need to knock that +0.35 hull regeneration down to +0.15 to truly make that set bonus balanced.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
It's plainly obvious to me the Borg set 2 piece bonus is badly broken despite never used it myself. There is no way a ship which barely survived 1 minute can suddenly outlast 10-15X longer by simply switching the equipment, everything else being equal. In this sense, I am glad Cryptic finally grew the spine to fix this bug. Otherwise, with the current mess of multiple instant and simultaneous heals + Borg 2 pieces, this game is simply unplayable.
What is unclear to me right now is if the bugfix actually constitutes such a major change. It depends on whether the modifier was something like 0.8 to 1.2 now reset to 1.0 for all ships (which might be variance between a BOP and a Cruiser) or was something like 8 to 12 and is now reset to 1...
Soooo much hurting of the buttz!
I wholeheartedly APPROVE of anything that makes needing any one specific build or role unnecessary. In particular, the healing role is often avoided by most players making groups hard to come by for everyone else.
Besides, how ridiculous is it that space ships need "healers"? At best "cross healing" should be bolstering another ship's shields and maybe integrity fields, making "healers" be more of a support role.
Also, everyone knows healers smell and look funny.
So tbh, I haven't even noticed this issue with powerhouse bleedthrough or alternatively insta-vape clickies that don't care how much the target heals because the target is already dead.
Glad they are looking into this, I guess?
This is like re-organizing your toothpicks during a tornado.
loved that, made me lol:D
On tribble it's giving me 1,600 per tick, which is 1,000 less then what I'm getting on holodeck. So for me it's basically a free high aux HE2 (heal not cleanse obviously) every minute, which is a little less absurd than what it was before. Still a lot though.
I suspect it'll still be the number one 2-piece bonus.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
You whiny PvP people! Every time someone is even remotely able to have a good heal, you go cry to a dev to get it nerfed! And now you got my 2-piece Borg set nerfed. Proud of yourself, little man?!
It's high time they pulled the plug on PvP altogether; and the horse you rode in on.
[/rant]
Imagine if they removed all the silly proc heals?
Heck, imagine if they removed all the silly heals?
Boosted hull health and shield cap?
Might actually be Star Trek Online...
Yeah, not sure what that means exactly.
But I have 16 full Borg sets (pre loadouts and all); and I'm pretty p*ssed at the moment.
All I am capable of doing right now, is imagining a world in which what happens in PvP, stays in PvP.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Thanks, we are glad you feel that way. Our only regret is that it wasn't nerfed enough. Seriously though, the change they made wasn't a nerf, it was merely a bug fix.
If it is essential for your survival, then you need to reanalyze your playstyle. One proc should not mean the difference between living and dying in an STF.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Uh-huh. 2 years after the latest nerf 'suddenly' they find a bug?! Riiiight.
I play a hit and run style, the 2 piece helps on the repairs before i launch another quick strafing run and yes i fly a fleet defiant so i don't have the luxury of cruiser level engineering slots
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Are you serious? What does pvp have to do with the devs saying it was bugged and fixed it? There's bugs from before f2p that still exist. Please don't blame everything you deem a "nerf" to be pvp's fault.
The bug was found after stats showed it healed more than all other hull heals combined. Something was definitively broken, it just took a player's years of data mining the combat logs to get the devs to take a second look. The heal was way over the top. Glad it's being brought back down to something reasonable.
Read the whole thread please. Borticus has been quoted saying that this will acutally mean a more significant heal for smaller ships with lower hull strength. So you will be made more durable.
More heals than other hull heals combined?! So, better than MW3? Or HE3? Yeah, I don't think so. It offered good heals, but nothing as outrageous as you claim; and nothing so outrageous that anyone, including you, felt like taking a look at it earlier either, apparently.
My Mobius was doing fine with the pre-nerf version, thank you. And it will do worse with the nerfed version, guaranteed.
This ^
And your point? I flew a fleet defiant for a long time, more than a year ago. Never used the Borg set. And the Borg STFs were tougher back then because we didn't have as much power creep, nor was their damaged as nerfed as it is now. And I didn't really have a problem with them. You should be fine in that little ship. It's not as squishy as you might think, especially with these Borg now.
Pop an aux battery, hit HE and TSS, and keep shooting.
I've heard the very same (invalid) arguments over and over again, when I was still playing EvE Online. An endless stream of ppl telling me I don't really *need* the epensive gear or ships to survive. All PvP-ers, of course. Meanwhile utterly not grasping that I simply *want* the good ships and gear. Has got nothing to do with survival.
It's about investment and trust, though. When something as widely used as the Borg set is not immediately fixed, and left 'as is' for several years, then it becomes reasonable to rely on its functionality as a behavior that was intended. Yes, even when it's good. To then wake up one day and hear all your 16 sets are gonna be nerfded after all, that stings, and it sucks (not necessarily in that particular order). And no amount of PvP-grandstanding about being able to survive *with* the nerf is gonna change that.
You really hate PvP players it seems. It' not like every PvP player actually wants seperate regulation for PvP and PvE, but that's apparently not what Cryptic wants (they have the ingame mechanic to let players be differently affected by other players abilities, but don't use it).
And once again. THIS IS NOT A NERF. This isn't being done for balance reason even if it has balance implications. It's simply a bugfix. Why don't you simply log into tribble and test it out for yourself? See if the fix actually makes a huge difference. But no, you simply sit here and rant about PvP ruining everything ... It's an MMO, balance passes have to be made (even though Cryptic is pretty reluctant doing them) sometimes. It's what you have to expect.