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Zen store/Fleet B'rel in need for some extra retrofitting!

robyvisionrobyvision Member Posts: 281 Arc User
edited April 2014 in Klingon Discussion
Hi all. This is my first KDF character lvl 50 gorn captain who is not so happy with the b'rel bop at all. I was saving zen, and fleet modules for my torpedo build. For this iconic kdf ship. But then the doubt kicked in.
This ship status is totally underpowered , and totally outdated by the tvaro - btw. unlike tvaro the b'rel has no special console why ?.
And then on the dawn of the starbase fleet system when the devs were trying to make the fleet version of the b'rel they added the extra 17.9% more HP to the hull that much was it weak. Like the fleet varanus sci ship it has a console slot (fleet version) witch it doesn't really need.
The b'rel bop needs a tac console not a eng who did that? I want his head :P.
And that's not everything that's wrong with the b'rel . If you don't already have the zen version you need to pay 5 fleet modules (normally 4) for it. And all for a ship of 2000 zen worth that's weird.
Most of the people who try to get this ship is because its enhanced battle cloak.
To shoot torpedoes on gangs of OP feds now I really don't know :rolleyes:.
Post edited by robyvision on
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Comments

  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I got it largely for the look.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'll be honest the one costume that works on b'rel from qaw'dun or whatever or b'lroth i think maybe doesn't work on the fleet one, the eng console is a bust, plus the enhanced battle cloak is nothing more than a canon gimmick/collectors item since shield tanking is so coveted that they haven't done anything in 3+ years to make it workable but they did make it workable for the t'varo.

    I'd save yer resources for the day in maybe when gre'thor freezes over that they address out b'rel complaints.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 8,986 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Fleet B'Rel's ENG console instead of TAC or SCI has been questioned since it was first seen. Makes no sense whatsoever.

    KDF BOPs in general are underpowered in PVP. Pretty much every TAC oriented build possible is surpassed by the Rom Warbirds since they all have Battle Cloaks, all the bells and whistles, and no design sacrifices. They're elusive, offensively strong, maneuverable, fast, and, unlike the KDF BOPs, have hull & shield mods equal to the best out there. All while KDF BOPs are locked with the old compromises.

    If you're going to fly a KDF BOP in PVP... good luck. Speed and maneuverability are your only tickets. You have the worst shield and hull mods in the game (Warbirds sacrifice nothing). Unless flying the Fleet Norgh, you're flying with only 11 BOFF skills instead of 12. Even then, the Fleet Norgh is stuck at 9 consoles for "balance" (I laugh in the face of this when you look at Warbird statistics).

    Anyways, if flying the BOP in PVP, realize that you're flying with Eggshells as shields and armor. Your speed, turn, and battle cloak are your only saving graces, but there are ships that are:
    * Faster than you (the MANY Bugships out there, and the rare Risian Corvettes are the fastest ships).
    * Have Battle Cloaks that require half the time to reactivate than you (Rom Battle Cloaks can be reapplied in as little as 9 seconds)
    * Have better staying power than you, while having the same combat capability of the KDF BOP.

    Good luck, and Godspeed!
    XzRTofz.gif
  • autumnturningautumnturning Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    You have the worst shield and hull mods in the game (Warbirds sacrifice nothing).

    -10 Power Levels to Weapons, Shields, Engines and Auxiliary for having a Singularity Core instead of a Matter/Anti-matter Core is NOT "nothing" as you so blithely assert. It is, however, not that terribly meaningful of a sacrifice, either. Relatively few KDF Raiders can "count their blessings" for having +40 Power in comparison to a T'varo Refit and call it an even trade.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Fleet B'Rel's ENG console instead of TAC or SCI has been questioned since it was first seen. Makes no sense whatsoever.

    KDF BOPs in general are underpowered in PVP. Pretty much every TAC oriented build possible is surpassed by the Rom Warbirds since they all have Battle Cloaks, all the bells and whistles, and no design sacrifices. They're elusive, offensively strong, maneuverable, fast, and, unlike the KDF BOPs, have hull & shield mods equal to the best out there. All while KDF BOPs are locked with the old compromises.

    If you're going to fly a KDF BOP in PVP... good luck. Speed and maneuverability are your only tickets. You have the worst shield and hull mods in the game (Warbirds sacrifice nothing). Unless flying the Fleet Norgh, you're flying with only 11 BOFF skills instead of 12. Even then, the Fleet Norgh is stuck at 9 consoles for "balance" (I laugh in the face of this when you look at Warbird statistics).

    Anyways, if flying the BOP in PVP, realize that you're flying with Eggshells as shields and armor. Your speed, turn, and battle cloak are your only saving graces, but there are ships that are:
    * Faster than you (the MANY Bugships out there, and the rare Risian Corvettes are the fastest ships).
    * Have Battle Cloaks that require half the time to reactivate than you (Rom Battle Cloaks can be reapplied in as little as 9 seconds)
    * Have better staying power than you, while having the same combat capability of the KDF BOP.

    Good luck, and Godspeed!

    Oh come on now, when haven't we fought against all the odds in STO? ;)

    Anyway, the B'rel is iconic and although falling back to power creep (as every other design older than 6 months, which is something Cryptic will soon have to adress) it still can be set up to preform admirably by a player that has the idea as to what he/she is doing.
    And I maintain the fact that the KDF raiders (BoPs) is the funnest class of ship to play. :) Well unless you're in Starbase Defense and due to all the glitter, pet spam and wowzer effects the STO engine overheats and drops the frame rate to 0, but that is another thing Cryptic will have to adress soon enough.

    Anyway OP, don't compare your ship to other ships - especially Romulan ones. Some of them are designed to be OP on purpose. Your ship is what it is.
    If you're like me than you'll say - just the more joy in watching those OPed abominations' burning hulls exploding in front of my miniature B'rel. :)

    P.S. Still hoping for that BoP boost. Kahless knows the BoPs need a hand to properly keep up.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • robyvisionrobyvision Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    To me the b'rel is the galaxy class of the kdf side. In star trek its the most shown ship of the kdf side. It deserves some dev love and fed hate. The extra tun rate and the enhanced battlecloak is useless if it cant hold on in 1vs1 combat with its romulan rival. The useless eng console on the fleet version is like having a modern jet fighter outfitted with cargo hold for transporting tuna. That need to be corrected its a raider it doesnt need more tanking power even the descriptions of that ship class makes that clear. And there is no room for enjoying the ship just because it ca cloak and run away. If I wanted that I would be flying something like the risian ship and noone would catch me hahaha. The Feds have the most ship choice, the Rom have OP ships and the Kdf have what? ... the ugliest in every comparison.
    Like the new dyson destroyer ship :(.
    s1kkrk.gif
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    robyvision wrote: »
    The Feds have the most ship choice, the Rom have OP ships and the Kdf have what? ... the ugliest in every comparison.

    I beg to differ on that one. I think the KDF has the best looking ships in the game, they all look awesome. :cool: Plus we have the best battlecruisers and carriers. And the most fun to play ship class - the raider even though it has fallen a victim of power creep lately.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 8,986 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    -10 Power Levels to Weapons, Shields, Engines and Auxiliary for having a Singularity Core instead of a Matter/Anti-matter Core is NOT "nothing" as you so blithely assert. It is, however, not that terribly meaningful of a sacrifice, either. Relatively few KDF Raiders can "count their blessings" for having +40 Power in comparison to a T'varo Refit and call it an even trade.

    Oh please, the Singularity power level "penalty" is only a concern for still levelling toons and fresh level 50's. Once you got your gear, there is no power issue. There is so much power given from gear, set bonuses, even DOFFs, etc. There is no "penalty" to Singularity Cores, but hey, you guys get some nifty, free Singularity Abilities that literally can save your bacon out of many situations.

    More tools for the Escape Artist Bag of Tricks on top of whatever other BOFF skills you can use for evasion and the Romulan Battle Cloak which you can take down to 9 seconds to recloak.

    On top of this, Warbirds have no compromise in any category whatsoever. Their handling, shield, hull mods, cloaks, BOFF seating, console arrangements, everything... has no compromise whatsoever.

    You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Go learn the game more across the 3 factions and have a clue before you start to swim with the sharks in this cross-faction stuff.

    Warbirds are so laughably easy to play, you should be having "Ride of the Valkyrie" blaring in your background music while you laugh hysterically as you play with what the game lets you get away with.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Well unless you're in Starbase Defense and due to all the glitter, pet spam and wowzer effects the STO engine overheats and drops the frame rate to 0, but that is another thing Cryptic will have to adress soon enough.

    I wouldn't hold your breath too much on that, Shpoks.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I wouldn't hold your breath too much on that, Shpoks.

    Oh I know and I'm not holding my breath on particulary on that either. But the ignorance on their behalf that has led to that situation will most certainly continue (that's why I'm not holding my breath) and will pile up eventually breaking the game.
    It's only a couple of instances now, one of which has got it really bad at times (SBD), but as they pile up the glitter and over the top space effects it will become more and more prominent and expand on more and more of the content it will soon enough become an issue of either fixing it or closing up shop. Cause at that point, the game will be unplayable.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited March 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    I beg to differ on that one. I think the KDF has the best looking ships in the game, they all look awesome. :cool: Plus we have the best battlecruisers and carriers. And the most fun to play ship class - the raider even though it has fallen a victim of power creep lately.

    Everyone has a Hangar, everyone has a Battle Cloak, everyone has Universal BOFF slots.

    (Oh, the poor D'deridex Retrofit only has an Ensign Universal... along with the Commander Eng, Lt. Commander Tac, and Lt. Commander Sci. LOL.)

    Of course, we've already addressed it: what the B'rel needs is a Hangar! We've got the other gimmicks, so a Hangar is the obvious Cryptic fix for the B'rel.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Of course, we've already addressed it: what the B'rel needs is a Hangar! We've got the other gimmicks, so a Hangar is the obvious Cryptic fix for the B'rel.

    Only if it can launch Hegh'ta frigates. ;) :D
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    A B'rel hangar, that launches B'rel pets, that, being B'rels, also thus have hangars that launch B'rel pets...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I agree with the OP, BOP's are worth it in today's game environment weather you PvP or PvE. Back 18 months ago the enemies were all weaker and thus a BOP while still weak, could be used to play the game. Today with all the power creep it's utterly useless when you could fly anything else and have a better build.
    -10 Power Levels to Weapons, Shields, Engines and Auxiliary for having a Singularity Core instead of a Matter/Anti-matter Core is NOT "nothing" as you so blithely assert. It is, however, not that terribly meaningful of a sacrifice, either. Relatively few KDF Raiders can "count their blessings" for having +40 Power in comparison to a T'varo Refit and call it an even trade.

    Makes me wonder why the Ar'kif have a +40 power boost? Many have -10 from all systems so a -40 isn't that much especially when some of the warbirds get a boost like +40 to weapons and especially with the Leech available for all factions and a few other gimmicks that can for the most part neutralize this. So warmaker001b is in a way correct, it's basically no sacrifice at all when you consider all the bonuses that they get for it. Basically like giving away a cheap fish and chips take away dinner to get a lobster dinner instead.
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,032 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    Of course, we've already addressed it: what the B'rel needs is a Hangar! We've got the other gimmicks, so a Hangar is the obvious Cryptic fix for the B'rel.

    A B'rel hangar that launches K'vort pets!
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If the B'rel was given the ability to fire all torpedoes without the shared timer issue and if the B'rel was given a 4th tac slot it would be an improvement.


    Alternatively...


    The B'rel could be given a massive plasma torpedo weapon unique only on the B'rel that can be fired from cloak without breaking the cloak.

    A heavy torpedo that has a long re-fire timer (3 minutes?) but does the equivalent damage of 4 high yield torpedoes in high yield 3.
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    From the book of the Rules of Cryptic:

    Rule #65: "When in doubt, slap a hangar on!"

    The B'rel needs a hangar.
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    From the book of the Rules of Cryptic:

    Rule #65: "When in doubt, slap a hangar on!"

    The B'rel needs a hangar.

    No, no, no......you got that all wrong. What you're quoting is actually Rule #1. ;) :D
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Honestly . . . I'd be happy with it as is, with an additional 5-10K more hull. Would make sense too. Klingons wouldnt be that stupid as to make a ship with shield limitations without slapping a lil more plating on it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    No, no, no......you got that all wrong. What you're quoting is actually Rule #1. ;) :D

    Nono. Rule #1 is:

    "When you want to get players to buy something, you create a Featured Episode where you overpower the ship that is featured, then, when you release it in the C-Store, EVERYONE buys it."
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There's already a BoP with a 4th tac console, the Hoh'sus. Maybe went for engineering for the 10-spot so people who wanted a K'vort could pretend they had a battlecruiser layout and proceed accordingly. I'd have gone with science personally but too late now.

    Additionally, why would they add more to it after-the-fact? The entire BoP family is getting the flanking bonus (eventually) for free, whereas the Galaxy is only getting buffed for the Fleet Gal-X, nothing for the Fleet Gal-R's stats. Since there is already a Fleet B'rel, what would they do, release a Fleet-Fleet version of it? Elite Fleet B'rel-X Retro-Refit?

    At most there might be a console set bonus. Quad cannons plus subspace jumper = bonus disruptor damage plus some kind of stat buff (bonus maneuverability and impulse modifier maybe). Thats something they could easily add after-the-fact, and this Gal-X relaunch certainly provides precedent.

    Rather than a retroactive enhancement, probably a better chance of building support for fleet versions of ships not yet released. Fleet Goomba could easily be a 5-tac-console ship since it doesn't have cloaking or flanking, negating those potential arguments against it. The Qorgh and Pach raptors could get Fleet makeovers with LtCmdr Eng and LtCmdr Sci, filling those gaps in the lineup. The Ki'tang or Hegh'ta BoPs could become the Fleet BoP with the missing #4 science console. Maybe even get the Fleet Qin's ensign swapped to universal, making it a perfect counterpart to the Fleet Patrol Escort. Any of those I imagine would be much more doable than retroactively swapping a console on a ship thats been out for months now.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,936 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Nono. Rule #1 is:

    "When you want to get players to buy something, you create a Featured Episode where you overpower the ship that is featured, then, when you release it in the C-Store, EVERYONE buys it."

    Which brings us to the original Rule #1.

    How do you make said FE ship overpowered? "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" :D
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    shpoks wrote: »
    Which brings us to the original Rule #1.

    How do you make said FE ship overpowered? "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" :D

    Straight from the Cryptic book of rules:

    Rule #2:

    "When in doubt, slap on a gimmick console!"
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    more hull won't do much. You're not hull tanking anything ANY ship.

    The B'rels cloak LITERALLY disables its shields..they only come up when you click the cloak icon to de-cloak or you get tractored/etc and pulled out of the cloak. Or if you're dumb enough to use an energy weapon in the B'rel.

    Case in point: Use Jevonite hardpoints on the B'rel and you'll still get hull thumped as much as you do when you don't.
  • ovinspaceovinspace Member Posts: 310
    edited March 2014
    I'd suggest people level a tac or sci rom and then get both torp boats and compare - is the issue largely the ship or the rom boffs vs nausicaan boffs?
  • kolbrandrkolbrandr Member Posts: 266
    edited March 2014
    My fix for the B'rel:

    Let it fire projectiles without having to decloak momentarily. Don't half*** this iconic ability.

    Drop one Eng Console and add a Tac console. Then add one Eng console on the fleet version.

    Change one of the Lt universals to a LtCmdr universal, like the Norgh.

    Finally, either add the flanking mechanic or increase decloak damage bonus by 10%
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kolbrandr wrote: »
    My fix for the B'rel:

    Let it fire projectiles without having to decloak momentarily. Don't half*** this iconic ability.

    Drop one Eng Console and add a Tac console. Then add one Eng console on the fleet version.

    Change one of the Lt universals to a LtCmdr universal, like the Norgh.

    Finally, either add the flanking mechanic or increase decloak damage bonus by 10%

    Don't forget a gimmick console and a hangar.
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • kolbrandrkolbrandr Member Posts: 266
    edited March 2014
    Don't forget a gimmick console and a hangar.

    Well of course. That goes without saying. :D
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    kolbrandr wrote: »
    Well of course. That goes without saying. :D
    Hanger needs to come with B'rel frigates. Then you can be your own personal BoP wing.

    ...That actually sounds kind of awesome.
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