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AFK penalty issue

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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,152 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    It should be foremost in your mind...do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    In other words, completely ignore the mission objectives and just fire wildly even if this negatively impacts the mission objectives, as in the case of Azure, since if you shoot, you pull aggro, get shot, and thus can't accomplish the mission objectives,

    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.

    Which is what you do if you are a sane, intelligent and responsible person. Basically, does not exist in this game in a PUG.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,901 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »

    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.

    Which is what you do if you are a sane, intelligent and responsible person. Basically, does not exist in this game in a PUG.

    Sorry, you missed my edit: Even the "real" AFKers know to do this. It should be passed along to everyone else.

    (And by "this" I mean do enough damage in any queue so you can negate the AFK penalty.)

    Even a player in a PUG should know how to negate the AFK. It couldn't possibly be a lot of damage. My Level 12 character when I was grouped with Level 65s. I could not keep up with them even as they were playing at a lower level, but I knew enough go hit "something" out of range, before I got AFK. LOL!

    This is information everyone could use. Why are they not getting the word?

    Edit: and look at the other thread about being New to MMOs...got the understanding that the best gear is behind a pay wall. And he has to get it. Where is all that "info" floating in from?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,331 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »

    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.

    Which is what you do if you are a sane, intelligent and responsible person. Basically, does not exist in this game in a PUG.

    Sorry, you missed my edit: Even the "real" AFKers know to do this. It should be passed along to everyone else.

    (And by "this" I mean do enough damage in any queue so you can negate the AFK penalty.)

    Even a player in a PUG should know how to negate the AFK. It couldn't possibly be a lot of damage. My Level 12 character when I was grouped with Level 65s. I could not keep up with them even as they were playing at a lower level, but I knew enough go hit "something" out of range, before I got AFK. LOL!

    This is information everyone could use. Why are they not getting the word?
    Because the game itself doesn't even hint at the existence any such a requirement. Players find out it exists only after failing it. Even then, they are told only that they were "AFK," which means nothing to a player who was actively playing (or trying to) and they then have to ask someone/google it to know WTF it actually was they supposedly did wrong.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,656 Arc User
    Shoot first, ask questions later.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • monodosomonodoso Member Posts: 479 Arc User
    Teamwork never heard of it.

    Couldn't have said it better. The game began as a team mentality doing TFO's together (whatever they call it now). The last three years it's disappeared from the game.
    Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,901 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    Because the game itself doesn't even hint at the existence any such a requirement. Players find out it exists only after failing it. Even then, they are told only that they were "AFK," which means nothing to a player who was actively playing (or trying to) and they then have to ask someone/google it to know WTF it actually was they supposedly did wrong.

    Is this because the Devs believe it is best to keep the AFK penalty parameters a secret? It seems to me that "the cat is out of the bag" already.

    I do not do TFOs that often, not sure what the notification for an AFK penalty looks like, could it be reworded to add: Did not meet damage requirements to avoid penalty. Or something to that effect?

    Or is there more than just damage that counts, which is not as apparent.

    Eh, what am I saying there is so much convoluted wording or similar titles and disorganized charts and lists in this game, nothing is ever really clear or understandable without explanation. Or at least know the history of how it came to be this way.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I understand that the game experience can get frustrating or mono-directional if you fall behind while everybody else in team dishes out some big numbers but there is nothing stopping you, no role, no other ideal, from doing so as well.

    Even if I bring my full support chars (de-buffs, CC, heals or tank) to runs where others get 400k+ DPS I sit at 5-20% of that and would not get any pens.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.
    "Being the F-Presser in a mission where shooting anything isn't even a mission objective and will actively prevent you from doing the mission", like, say, Azure Nebula, where there are precisely zero enemies that are actually mission objectives and shooting anything at all is both a total waste of time and actively prevents you from accomplishing the actual mission.

    The OP has learned his lesson. Pressing F is not enough. ;)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 17 Arc User

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I'm running a Kor torp boat. On ANR I avoid combat and hit the objectives because being cloaky and sneaky is what a Kor torp boat is for. Often in a PUG my teammates lose aggro and I won't be able to disable all the beams. When this happens I'll cloak again and start shooting things. On this run the team was competent and well organized so I didn't have to do that, hence the AFK penalty. I'll remember for next time.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    edxell wrote: »

    I'm running a Kor torp boat. On ANR I avoid combat and hit the objectives because being cloaky and sneaky is what a Kor torp boat is for. Often in a PUG my teammates lose aggro and I won't be able to disable all the beams. When this happens I'll cloak again and start shooting things. On this run the team was competent and well organized so I didn't have to do that, hence the AFK penalty. I'll remember for next time.

    Sadly this game is beyond stupid in so many areas and to use the afk pen rules on a map like azure belongs certainly to it.
    I bet if you can hit one spread on any of the spawns you’ll avoid it and resume your approach as it has much more style. :)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,576 Community Moderator
    After the ship is freed, the Tholian mobs hang around for a bit before warping out. Take a few potshots then to get your "required" damage dealt. That way you don't have to alter your tactics much.
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  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    From what I have heard (I can't say I've seen it myself), serial AFKers somehow avoid the penalty by warping in to the mission already dead.

    Again, the AFK penalty is so simplistic as to be completely useless, and likely counterproductive to its goals. Perhaps it's time someone spent more that 10 minutes coding it, so as to be useful.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I understand that the game experience can get frustrating or mono-directional if you fall behind while everybody else in team dishes out some big numbers but there is nothing stopping you, no role, no other ideal, from doing so as well.

    Even if I bring my full support chars (de-buffs, CC, heals or tank) to runs where others get 400k+ DPS I sit at 5-20% of that and would not get any pens.

    i think you miss understand me i did not say i have a issue doing damage the issue is that when you get a group of speedy dps escorts it is not easy to keep up and by the time you are in range to fire the targets are already dead if i cant reach the targets before they blow up i cant damage them.

    It is rare that i get the penalty but non the less i do get it and as i said optional objectives fail. then rewards are less do to that failing, and you are pushed to only do dps and needing more and more.

    Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working. As the game only teaches you shoot everything. In some places that is not the objective at all and for doing the objectives you loose plane and simple.

    Most of these places the objectives fail granted is on ground maps but in every instance the actual use of a few brain cells get you thru but do not count only damage so everyone is always racing to shoot first ground or space and team effort and working together flys right out the air lock.

    Ground mirror ds9 3 objectives most always fail no one protects the npc for health falling just fire blindly all over the place. The console sequence with the grenades tossed all over the place no one works the consoles to drop the field to move on again blindly firing away till timers fail and brute force the field. Last taking on leeta by hitting her 3 times with the electric plates in the center of the room. Yes you guessed it blind firing away from all over the room and even when players activate the plates the one with the aggro draws her off the plates to the side of the room dies and then dps again to the other side. O you win in the end by using the dps on her but fail the objectives.

    This is just one of many tfo's that fail the objectives space the borg don't let the nanite ships regenerate the node sure given the dps you can do so just blasting thru. With out it you fail. Even with dps you can fail do to people just target at random anything even shooting the node why generators are still up they just took at the 2 front ones leaving the rear ones and here come the nanite ships.

    Now do i get the afk penalty for these 2 no but it still is either dps race and fire guns blazing fail the objectives and if i don't fire and make sure the objectives are taken care of then you get the afk.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    The other day my game crashed before the loading to a queue, I re-opend the game logged in and found myself in the queue as the only player and left, and what do you know I was slapped with a penalty.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,812 Arc User
    Teh problem is, the AFK system is a symptom. the combined impacts of power creep and certain level designs means that it's possible to AFK an instance (any instance) without pulling the penalty, because the penalty was formulated to correct a 'problem' that wasn't particularly widespread to begin with.

    The problem was people intentionally AFK'ing instances that are basically 'impossible to lose'-missions where you win on a timer regardless of your actual performance in the various phases. (mirror revamped is a great example of this.)

    a better solution would be to design instances where not doing the mission costs you.

    but they're not gonna do that, because it's a hell of a lot more complicated than setting an arbitrary damage bar that can be implemented regardless of actual mission objectives.

    whatever.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I understand that the game experience can get frustrating or mono-directional if you fall behind while everybody else in team dishes out some big numbers but there is nothing stopping you, no role, no other ideal, from doing so as well.

    Even if I bring my full support chars (de-buffs, CC, heals or tank) to runs where others get 400k+ DPS I sit at 5-20% of that and would not get any pens.

    i think you miss understand me i did not say i have a issue doing damage the issue is that when you get a group of speedy dps escorts it is not easy to keep up and by the time you are in range to fire the targets are already dead if i cant reach the targets before they blow up i cant damage them.

    It is rare that i get the penalty but non the less i do get it and as i said optional objectives fail. then rewards are less do to that failing, and you are pushed to only do dps and needing more and more.

    Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working. As the game only teaches you shoot everything. In some places that is not the objective at all and for doing the objectives you loose plane and simple.

    Most of these places the objectives fail granted is on ground maps but in every instance the actual use of a few brain cells get you thru but do not count only damage so everyone is always racing to shoot first ground or space and team effort and working together flys right out the air lock.

    Ground mirror ds9 3 objectives most always fail no one protects the npc for health falling just fire blindly all over the place. The console sequence with the grenades tossed all over the place no one works the consoles to drop the field to move on again blindly firing away till timers fail and brute force the field. Last taking on leeta by hitting her 3 times with the electric plates in the center of the room. Yes you guessed it blind firing away from all over the room and even when players activate the plates the one with the aggro draws her off the plates to the side of the room dies and then dps again to the other side. O you win in the end by using the dps on her but fail the objectives.

    This is just one of many tfo's that fail the objectives space the borg don't let the nanite ships regenerate the node sure given the dps you can do so just blasting thru. With out it you fail. Even with dps you can fail do to people just target at random anything even shooting the node why generators are still up they just took at the 2 front ones leaving the rear ones and here come the nanite ships.

    Now do i get the afk penalty for these 2 no but it still is either dps race and fire guns blazing fail the objectives and if i don't fire and make sure the objectives are taken care of then you get the afk.

    While I share your feeling about assault on terok nor I totally miss your point about DPSer not being able to understand and fulfill secondary tasks.

    It’s as if I set up the thesis that players who don’t know how to dish out some DPS are also not smart or experienced enough to tend to other mission objectives.

    It is not reality as we have:

    1) DPSer who know how to handle other tasks
    2) DPSer who do not know how to reliably do other tasks
    3) Weak players who know how to handle other tasks
    4) Weak players who don’t contribute anything

    There also would need to be clarified “what” a DPSer here is. Is there a number attached to it? By my leagues definition everybody who can do 10k+ in ISA is already one but I know folks who can do 160k+ and still don’t count themselves to be DPSer.

    It should also be noted that with DR a few years back cryptic discreetly changed the demands of maps. I don’t mean just more HP, I mean some critters got buffed, others not at all leading to other approaches than before. This especially addresses ISA or CSA where all of sudden nanites became mega weak while reformer and birds of prey became quite strong. The 10% rule or RMML was not made obsolete by DPSer, it was made obsolete my cryptic's stage adjustments. In short they wanted less team-play there. :/

    What I suggest is to learn how to become part of group 1) here. I did so, not for becoming #1 on a DPS leaderboard but simply to be in a position to take matters into my own hands and not having to mind or leave players out of my game of group 2)-4). :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 7,261 Arc User

    While I share your feeling about assault on terok nor I totally miss your point about DPSer not being able to understand and fulfill secondary tasks.

    It’s as if I set up the thesis that players who don’t know how to dish out some DPS are also not smart or experienced enough to tend to other mission objectives.

    It is not reality as we have:

    1) DPSer who know how to handle other tasks
    2) DPSer who do not know how to reliably do other tasks
    3) Weak players who know how to handle other tasks
    4) Weak players who don’t contribute anything

    There also would need to be clarified “what” a DPSer here is. Is there a number attached to it? By my leagues definition everybody who can do 10k+ in ISA is already one but I know folks who can do 160k+ and still don’t count themselves to be DPSer.

    It should also be noted that with DR a few years back cryptic discreetly changed the demands of maps. I don’t mean just more HP, I mean some critters got buffed, others not at all leading to other approaches than before. This especially addresses ISA or CSA where all of sudden nanites became mega weak while reformer and birds of prey became quite strong. The 10% rule or RMML was not made obsolete by DPSer, it was made obsolete my cryptic's stage adjustments. In short they wanted less team-play there. :/

    What I suggest is to learn how to become part of group 1) here. I did so, not for becoming #1 on a DPS leaderboard but simply to be in a position to take matters into my own hands and not having to mind or leave players out of my game of group 2)-4). :)

    Well said, the idea that if someone does good damage that they can't manage to complete objectives is frankly idiotic.

    DPS oriented players are like any other player type.. there are good ones and bad ones. Sure, there are players that just shoot at everything and ignore any other part of the mission, those are bad players. So are players that can't manage to put together a halfway logical build and prove to be nothing but an anchor on their team.

    You don't have to do super high DPS to be a good player. All you need to be an asset to your team is a reasonably well put together build (I am not talking about high level gear, just a build that makes basic sense) and a willingness to follow mission instructions. That's it.. nothing more.

    Frankly, the insinuation that anyone that brings good damage to a group is some type of brain dead idiot is getting pretty old. The reality is that most people who have put in the time and effort to study builds and learn the inner workings of the games mechanics can probably figure out how to pull Leeta to the plates to damage her. Clueless players are clueless players.. they bring bad builds, they don't follow objectives, they don't help the team and they don't seem to care. The idea that these players are all high DPS players is frankly just stupid.
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  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I understand that the game experience can get frustrating or mono-directional if you fall behind while everybody else in team dishes out some big numbers but there is nothing stopping you, no role, no other ideal, from doing so as well.

    Even if I bring my full support chars (de-buffs, CC, heals or tank) to runs where others get 400k+ DPS I sit at 5-20% of that and would not get any pens.

    i think you miss understand me i did not say i have a issue doing damage the issue is that when you get a group of speedy dps escorts it is not easy to keep up and by the time you are in range to fire the targets are already dead if i cant reach the targets before they blow up i cant damage them.

    It is rare that i get the penalty but non the less i do get it and as i said optional objectives fail. then rewards are less do to that failing, and you are pushed to only do dps and needing more and more.

    Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working. As the game only teaches you shoot everything. In some places that is not the objective at all and for doing the objectives you loose plane and simple.

    Most of these places the objectives fail granted is on ground maps but in every instance the actual use of a few brain cells get you thru but do not count only damage so everyone is always racing to shoot first ground or space and team effort and working together flys right out the air lock.

    Ground mirror ds9 3 objectives most always fail no one protects the npc for health falling just fire blindly all over the place. The console sequence with the grenades tossed all over the place no one works the consoles to drop the field to move on again blindly firing away till timers fail and brute force the field. Last taking on leeta by hitting her 3 times with the electric plates in the center of the room. Yes you guessed it blind firing away from all over the room and even when players activate the plates the one with the aggro draws her off the plates to the side of the room dies and then dps again to the other side. O you win in the end by using the dps on her but fail the objectives.

    This is just one of many tfo's that fail the objectives space the borg don't let the nanite ships regenerate the node sure given the dps you can do so just blasting thru. With out it you fail. Even with dps you can fail do to people just target at random anything even shooting the node why generators are still up they just took at the 2 front ones leaving the rear ones and here come the nanite ships.

    Now do i get the afk penalty for these 2 no but it still is either dps race and fire guns blazing fail the objectives and if i don't fire and make sure the objectives are taken care of then you get the afk.

    While I share your feeling about assault on terok nor I totally miss your point about DPSer not being able to understand and fulfill secondary tasks.

    It’s as if I set up the thesis that players who don’t know how to dish out some DPS are also not smart or experienced enough to tend to other mission objectives.

    It is not reality as we have:

    1) DPSer who know how to handle other tasks
    2) DPSer who do not know how to reliably do other tasks
    3) Weak players who know how to handle other tasks
    4) Weak players who don’t contribute anything

    There also would need to be clarified “what” a DPSer here is. Is there a number attached to it? By my leagues definition everybody who can do 10k+ in ISA is already one but I know folks who can do 160k+ and still don’t count themselves to be DPSer.

    It should also be noted that with DR a few years back cryptic discreetly changed the demands of maps. I don’t mean just more HP, I mean some critters got buffed, others not at all leading to other approaches than before. This especially addresses ISA or CSA where all of sudden nanites became mega weak while reformer and birds of prey became quite strong. The 10% rule or RMML was not made obsolete by DPSer, it was made obsolete my cryptic's stage adjustments. In short they wanted less team-play there. :/

    What I suggest is to learn how to become part of group 1) here. I did so, not for becoming #1 on a DPS leaderboard but simply to be in a position to take matters into my own hands and not having to mind or leave players out of my game of group 2)-4). :)

    You are running to defend dps why not all dps people are incapable of doing a mission neither is the rest of the players. I only call out dps escorts as a reason i cant reach the ships at times. This effects you in no way nor your league. As to what a dpser is well you are going to need to tell me as i have not used that term in any of these posts. I did say dps pusher and i did say dps. Plane and simple players upgrading to epic gear and just fire away are pushing the envelope and setting the amount you need to do to keep up. Most times ground or space people don't look at there chat or are out right ignoring it and just blindly fire away. Results may vary and you have a different outcome then i do.

    I also did say that "actual use of a few brain cells get you thru" Where is it i said that dps players are incapable or dumb? I did not i said that "Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working" I also said that the game only teaches you to shoot everything. On many occasions i have had players tell me the mission is not clear. That even with telling them step by step what is needed i am told that "they cant get it" and "cant understand" o and one good all around one "you say that like it means something".

    Simple to do objectives dropping the shields on the nodes on one of the borg ground missions. Or the three consoles that half to be activated at the same time there you are standing by one and typing in chat to try and get a 3rd person over to activate them and understand that this activation will be required later. But again after firing at everything that moves in the room there they stand at the shielded door not moving not talking just stand there why you try and get them to help but they have no clue.

    this is a larger issue than just the afk hit I don't blame any one its a problem with the game teaching only shoot everything and away we go to the next thing to kill. More dps ground or space quicker it is to do the missions untill they start hitting that random button and getting tossed in to missions they have never done and try and solve it by simply shooting everything. Witch brings me back around after this nice long circle to needing the dps and firing blindly at everything to keep up.

    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.




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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User

    While I share your feeling about assault on terok nor I totally miss your point about DPSer not being able to understand and fulfill secondary tasks.

    It’s as if I set up the thesis that players who don’t know how to dish out some DPS are also not smart or experienced enough to tend to other mission objectives.

    It is not reality as we have:

    1) DPSer who know how to handle other tasks
    2) DPSer who do not know how to reliably do other tasks
    3) Weak players who know how to handle other tasks
    4) Weak players who don’t contribute anything

    There also would need to be clarified “what” a DPSer here is. Is there a number attached to it? By my leagues definition everybody who can do 10k+ in ISA is already one but I know folks who can do 160k+ and still don’t count themselves to be DPSer.

    It should also be noted that with DR a few years back cryptic discreetly changed the demands of maps. I don’t mean just more HP, I mean some critters got buffed, others not at all leading to other approaches than before. This especially addresses ISA or CSA where all of sudden nanites became mega weak while reformer and birds of prey became quite strong. The 10% rule or RMML was not made obsolete by DPSer, it was made obsolete my cryptic's stage adjustments. In short they wanted less team-play there. :/

    What I suggest is to learn how to become part of group 1) here. I did so, not for becoming #1 on a DPS leaderboard but simply to be in a position to take matters into my own hands and not having to mind or leave players out of my game of group 2)-4). :)

    Well said, the idea that if someone does good damage that they can't manage to complete objectives is frankly idiotic.

    DPS oriented players are like any other player type.. there are good ones and bad ones. Sure, there are players that just shoot at everything and ignore any other part of the mission, those are bad players. So are players that can't manage to put together a halfway logical build and prove to be nothing but an anchor on their team.

    You don't have to do super high DPS to be a good player. All you need to be an asset to your team is a reasonably well put together build (I am not talking about high level gear, just a build that makes basic sense) and a willingness to follow mission instructions. That's it.. nothing more.

    Frankly, the insinuation that anyone that brings good damage to a group is some type of brain dead idiot is getting pretty old. The reality is that most people who have put in the time and effort to study builds and learn the inner workings of the games mechanics can probably figure out how to pull Leeta to the plates to damage her. Clueless players are clueless players.. they bring bad builds, they don't follow objectives, they don't help the team and they don't seem to care. The idea that these players are all high DPS players is frankly just stupid.

    Yep, that’s precisely it nailed. I found the dive into game mechanics, piloting up to perfecting team play aspects much harder to master than any non-shooting obstacles this game every threw at you or me. Those aspects are the game; they are all that is left. It is sad but it seems that this entire journey has to be undertaken by anybody who would like to understand that. :/
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 4,975 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    No. I did not say ignore objectives, nor did I say fire wildly. You added that.

    I said it should be in foremost in your mind...to do enough damage to negate the AFK penalty.
    And how would people know how much that is? There is no way to know this because this information is deliberately hidden from people. There isn't a green light indicating you've fulfilled your damage quota. The only thing you can do is keep blindly firing. And if doing this prevents you from accomplishing any mission objectives, well, so what? I'm not doing work so someone else can get paid and I don't, if I don't get paid, then to hell with anyone else.

    i can say i agree with your feelings regarding payment for time spent and at the same time feel almost depressed with my self regarding that being my outlook. I play as a engineer that is debatable as to even being use full any more but that is a different topic. The point is i like to help out in non dps ways healing, a missions objective, tanking and support on ground or in space. Makes you feel a level of satisfaction when the team over steps on ground and you not only can take the damage but at the same time pick your team up and continue the fight or cover a withdraw till the less tank built people can heal and regroup.

    The problem is the game don't care what you are doing except damage and that is it. Get in a group of only dps pushers and i have no options left but to race in as fast as you can guns blazing and hope you manage to score the damage needed to not get TRIBBLE over by the system.

    All in all it is a sad state to be in where you cant help with the objective or heals or support or even tactics as you can only keep firing and do to that options fail, rewards over all are less, and the game pushes you further from being a enjoy and team effort, to squeezing any more dps you can in any way to keep up. And even then fail at times.

    1% of the team’s dmg is what the AFK penalty’s threshold is estimated to be. I cannot imagine any role or side activity in game I like to pursue on any of my characters that would hinder me from contributing that much.

    I understand that the game experience can get frustrating or mono-directional if you fall behind while everybody else in team dishes out some big numbers but there is nothing stopping you, no role, no other ideal, from doing so as well.

    Even if I bring my full support chars (de-buffs, CC, heals or tank) to runs where others get 400k+ DPS I sit at 5-20% of that and would not get any pens.

    i think you miss understand me i did not say i have a issue doing damage the issue is that when you get a group of speedy dps escorts it is not easy to keep up and by the time you are in range to fire the targets are already dead if i cant reach the targets before they blow up i cant damage them.

    It is rare that i get the penalty but non the less i do get it and as i said optional objectives fail. then rewards are less do to that failing, and you are pushed to only do dps and needing more and more.

    Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working. As the game only teaches you shoot everything. In some places that is not the objective at all and for doing the objectives you loose plane and simple.

    Most of these places the objectives fail granted is on ground maps but in every instance the actual use of a few brain cells get you thru but do not count only damage so everyone is always racing to shoot first ground or space and team effort and working together flys right out the air lock.

    Ground mirror ds9 3 objectives most always fail no one protects the npc for health falling just fire blindly all over the place. The console sequence with the grenades tossed all over the place no one works the consoles to drop the field to move on again blindly firing away till timers fail and brute force the field. Last taking on leeta by hitting her 3 times with the electric plates in the center of the room. Yes you guessed it blind firing away from all over the room and even when players activate the plates the one with the aggro draws her off the plates to the side of the room dies and then dps again to the other side. O you win in the end by using the dps on her but fail the objectives.

    This is just one of many tfo's that fail the objectives space the borg don't let the nanite ships regenerate the node sure given the dps you can do so just blasting thru. With out it you fail. Even with dps you can fail do to people just target at random anything even shooting the node why generators are still up they just took at the 2 front ones leaving the rear ones and here come the nanite ships.

    Now do i get the afk penalty for these 2 no but it still is either dps race and fire guns blazing fail the objectives and if i don't fire and make sure the objectives are taken care of then you get the afk.

    While I share your feeling about assault on terok nor I totally miss your point about DPSer not being able to understand and fulfill secondary tasks.

    It’s as if I set up the thesis that players who don’t know how to dish out some DPS are also not smart or experienced enough to tend to other mission objectives.

    It is not reality as we have:

    1) DPSer who know how to handle other tasks
    2) DPSer who do not know how to reliably do other tasks
    3) Weak players who know how to handle other tasks
    4) Weak players who don’t contribute anything

    There also would need to be clarified “what” a DPSer here is. Is there a number attached to it? By my leagues definition everybody who can do 10k+ in ISA is already one but I know folks who can do 160k+ and still don’t count themselves to be DPSer.

    It should also be noted that with DR a few years back cryptic discreetly changed the demands of maps. I don’t mean just more HP, I mean some critters got buffed, others not at all leading to other approaches than before. This especially addresses ISA or CSA where all of sudden nanites became mega weak while reformer and birds of prey became quite strong. The 10% rule or RMML was not made obsolete by DPSer, it was made obsolete my cryptic's stage adjustments. In short they wanted less team-play there. :/

    What I suggest is to learn how to become part of group 1) here. I did so, not for becoming #1 on a DPS leaderboard but simply to be in a position to take matters into my own hands and not having to mind or leave players out of my game of group 2)-4). :)

    You are running to defend dps why not all dps people are incapable of doing a mission neither is the rest of the players. I only call out dps escorts as a reason i cant reach the ships at times. This effects you in no way nor your league. As to what a dpser is well you are going to need to tell me as i have not used that term in any of these posts. I did say dps pusher and i did say dps. Plane and simple players upgrading to epic gear and just fire away are pushing the envelope and setting the amount you need to do to keep up. Most times ground or space people don't look at there chat or are out right ignoring it and just blindly fire away. Results may vary and you have a different outcome then i do.

    I also did say that "actual use of a few brain cells get you thru" Where is it i said that dps players are incapable or dumb? I did not i said that "Missions that require thought leave these players dumbfounded that there dps is not working" I also said that the game only teaches you to shoot everything. On many occasions i have had players tell me the mission is not clear. That even with telling them step by step what is needed i am told that "they cant get it" and "cant understand" o and one good all around one "you say that like it means something".

    Simple to do objectives dropping the shields on the nodes on one of the borg ground missions. Or the three consoles that half to be activated at the same time there you are standing by one and typing in chat to try and get a 3rd person over to activate them and understand that this activation will be required later. But again after firing at everything that moves in the room there they stand at the shielded door not moving not talking just stand there why you try and get them to help but they have no clue.

    this is a larger issue than just the afk hit I don't blame any one its a problem with the game teaching only shoot everything and away we go to the next thing to kill. More dps ground or space quicker it is to do the missions untill they start hitting that random button and getting tossed in to missions they have never done and try and solve it by simply shooting everything. Witch brings me back around after this nice long circle to needing the dps and firing blindly at everything to keep up.

    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.




    Hehe, a few seasons back it was the Scimitards FAW everything to pieces, now the problem are cannon build escorts again? Man that's so cool as I like them much more. B)

    I’m sorry I read your posts like 3 times to be able to understand what I’m up against in this discussion. I still don’t.

    Do we discuss players unable to overcome some sort of map obstacles that don’t require shooting or is the problem players that kill stuff so fast that other players are left without anything to do?
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    At what point was credentials needed to have you state you are number 1 on the dps leaderboard?
    Or at just what point did i say that there are no other types of people that play and only tell everyone that dps players are it? In short i did not what i have done is say what my interaction has been. The simple fact is that the game only cares about a percentage of dps based on the whole. And if you don't do firing and just do the objectives you loose.

    Rather we love it or hate it.. this is a space/ground combat game.

    We could argue all day rather or not that is fitting for the Star Trek franchise, that's a whole other can of worms.. but the quicker you accept the reality of it, the easier things will be for you. Yes, doing the objectives is important, and players that focus on objectives are important and valuable. But like it or not, this is a combat game, and your contribution to a mission is measured as such.

    The compromise that has been made is that the bar for this contribution is set about as low as it can possibly go. In a map like Azure for example, kill one.. maybe 2 enemies and you're good. You can fly around the rest of the map doing nothing but disabling tractor beams and you'll be fine.

    If this does not appeal to you, if you do not wish to contribute anything to combat, then you're going to get an AFK. If you don't like that then your issue is with Cryptic and the people that designed the game, not with other players that are playing within those constraints. You can blame higher damage players all you want, but at the end of the day when you get hit with the AFK it's your own doing. Maybe one day they will change this, I honestly wish they would.. but for now this is what we have.

    Blaming other players for it will get you exactly nowhere.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,331 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The console sequence with the grenades tossed all over the place no one works the consoles to drop the field to move on again blindly firing away till timers fail and brute force the field.
    Most people do not know how to solve that puzzle and frankly, the method of doing so is decidedly non-obvious. To learn how to do it, I spent 6 hours one weekend just poking that puzzle, and it's NOT a very teachable method.
    What's not obvious about it? Besides being a stock puzzle that appears in dozens of games, it explicitly says that a console is wrong and that the sequence is reset. Clearly indicating there is a correct sequence of consoles and that you have to input the sequence again every time you choose wrong. The slightly less obvious condition that each console appears in the sequence exactly once is inferable after having done the puzzle once and quite sufficiently proven after two or three runs.

    But here's the teachable method anyway:
    1. Pick a console who's position in the sequence you don't yet know.
    2. If it was the wrong one, re-input what you already know of the sequence (if any) and try a different one until you find the right one.
    3. When you get right one, add it to your known sequence (if your memory sucks, take notes).
    4. Repeat from 1 until you've got the whole sequence.

    But most players don't even try to examine the puzzle, because they either aren't paying attention at all just shooting things (which they will then continue in the bossfight and ruin any chance of finishing in a reasonable time), or they know the game will continue exactly the same if they just take a coffee break for a few minutes.
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