She has motivation that she's a woman and what she says and does with the current "Klingon way of doing things," will be little more than footnotes of a tale of the men seeking glory. She wants more than to just be a footnote. She wants future warriors of the Klingon Empire to sing about her, possibly (as far as we know) as the first Empress of the Klingon Empire.
Every Klingon villain: "Oh, so you want to be sung about for eons and maybe become Chancellor/Empress? Yeah, cool, grab your ticket and wait in line like the rest of us"
"I want songs about me" is pretty much one of the main motivations of every Klingon villain, so that's actually not making her better as one.
And just because a villain is powerful and gets things done doesn't mean it's a good villain. Especially when their awesomeness is pretty much the writer going "Well, she can do stuff others didn't think would be possible. OK, if you think about it, it's actually not possible unless the other side grabs the idiot ball for some reason, but who cares, character shilling, yay!"
Lex Luthor managed to get Superman and Batman fight in BvS, but the plan was so convoluted he only got most of what he wanted because the writers wanted so, not because he was good at that.
So basically a f-tonne of TRIBBLE writers-flat.
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards =A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..." PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins. T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
Actually, for all we know, the records that she is looking for could have the location of the datapad that controls the thermal bomb that was dropped into the middle of Kronos, since T'Rell was house Mo'kai. And when last seen; it was in T'rell's possession.
She actually could end up taking over the Empire, (or on her way to) when the alliance has to stop her. Or time jump around and end up getting the bomb to Praxis before it blows up. (I never did buy the over mining thing in ST VI).
Hmm.... my read of that scene was always that it was people's best guess as to what caused the explosion. how much did they REALLY know for sure?
but he was a bad guy with a purpose and a plan, and it wasn't simply to elevate himself to first servant like Hakeev was after in hopes of being eaten last.
All I'm seeing with J'ula is "REEEE!!! HOW COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED IT'S INCONCIEVABLE REEEEEEE!!!!!" Plus some stabbing people.
alright that's oversimplifying, but generally when your grand plan revolves 'round an ancient magic book, it tends to mean you got nothin' going in terms of a "What do you want to use it for and what will that accomplish?"
in short, she's not a Leader, she's a kill-crazy atavism from the past with a sinus condition and a famous relative.
Obisek though wasn't exactly a bad guy. He was just painted as a bad guy because of the lengths he was pushed to. I feel he would only use the thalaron weapons if he had no other choice. All Obisek wanted was to see the Remans treated better than they had been. As of now, they are and he's a member of the alliance.
J'Ula though, I feel she's not going to be redeemed. In her eyes, everything that the Klingon Empire had was taken away, everything she had was taken away and she wants that back. How that happens remains to be seen.
Heh, I feel the need to point out how LITTLE was changed in LoR about the way Hakeev died. In the new Romulan version the player shoots Hakeev, but the animation of who pulls the trigger was the ONLY change to that scene in LoR.
I think part of the problem is that there is no risk to our characters regardless of the villain. In order to be a true foil, we would have to face some risk. To our reputation, to our life, to our pocketbook, etc.
We saw a hint when the Tholians reduced the Na'kul sun to a brown dwarf, but that was it. The time cops swept in, told us we couldn't fix it and that it was working out the way it was supposed to - loss averted. So the challenge becomes keeping people in jail after we capture them. the two or three that escaped when we had to pick up the founder, Sella, The leader of the Temporal Liberation Front (who's name escapes me at the moment) all had followers that break them out; because that is how you make them a challenge without risk.
I don't know how you would put in the risk, except to make a fail that would not reward the "prize of the week"; just toss you a few dil and make you try again, risking time. I wouldn't want to even see the feedback if they locked out the ship you just had blown up for 20 hours, or a boff in sickbay for a day, or a random item taken from your inventory. I've seen MMOs that do those things, but they were not things you spent real world money on like the ships, or possibly doffs from packs, or items from lock boxes. I wouldn't necessarily be against them taking marks away if the stories were good enough (but that is a big if).
Even if MMO by design have no real risk for your character as the designers can't suddenly decide "boom, your character dies with all the hours and money you may have spent on them, no really, gone for good, give up", they could always try something to raise the stakes a bit.
Like for instance, have J'Ula manage to trash your ship and capture you and you're stuck with her for some time.
Doff, Admirality, open quadrants, stores? All unavailable for now, you're just locked in her jail and forced to listen to her, do some holo simulations, as she tries to break you for interfering with her plans. For a few hours, you have no choice: you must try to break free to gain access to the rest of the game again, you have to be more involved than before, you can't just beam out of the mission or log out and in, you're trapped, you have something to lose.
Heck, even make the holo simulations hopeless where you lose repeatedly or have some older missions twisted to have bad endings. Or make it seem you're being rescued and then, nope, just another simulation, no hope for you. Make the player feel something.
Except in the process (and especially if you have a high Diplomacy rank), you turn this around her as you slowly deconstruct her fanaticism and biases, bringing more of her personality and motivations to light. Whether you succeed in making her give up and try to do something in the Empire or she continues in her path while she acknowledges she has nothing to live for anymore because she's a relic of the past, best to go extinct. When done right, a game that focuses on interactions with other characters can work, even if there isn't much else.
Take Night in the Woods, for example. You spend most of the time chatting with the exact same people at the exact same places, taking the exact same paths, and the playable character is a lazy womanchild who can be frustrating at first and who makes things worse, and yet it gives you something that makes you want to continue because the characters develop and can be very relatable.
Surely, something at a lesser degree could be done to make some characters in STO, like J'Ula, interesting and not just "generic villain of the season n°47" to kill in a climatic battle, whose defeat will have zero repercussions to anyone else, because a new season is on the way.
I don't understand where all this "she's one dimensional REEEEE" stuff is coming from. We've literally only run into her twice, and she hasn't really interacted with our characters. We haven't had time in game to develop a character. And the Story Blog? Yea... it establishes her hate of the Federation. I wonder why? SHE'S FROM A TIME WHEN THEY WERE AT WAR!
What do we know outside of what we've been given?
She is a character from the comics. That means we have some backstory that we're not seeing here. She wasn't created for STO. And she certainly isn't Hakeev.
What do we know? She's smart. She's dangerous. She's able to circumvent High End Starfleet Security with the skill of an Intelligence Agent. That is all we know right now. We're going to learn more about her as we get more story missions and any story blogs centered on her.
Let it frickin' play out before passing judgement. We don't have the full story yet.
What do we know? She's smart. She's dangerous. She's able to circumvent High End Starfleet Security with the skill of an Intelligence Agent. That is all we know right now.
If several people already dislikes her from that, maybe, just maybe, she didn't give a good impression in the first place, and considering the number of villains who did that and ended up uninteresting, other than "being hammy and angry", maybe people are getting sick of seeing those first impressions over and over?
But she's not hammy. That's what I'm trying to say! Why is everyone saying she is when we have no real idea? Let them develop the character for crying out loud!
She has motivation that she's a woman and what she says and does with the current "Klingon way of doing things," will be little more than footnotes of a tale of the men seeking glory. She wants more than to just be a footnote. She wants future warriors of the Klingon Empire to sing about her, possibly (as far as we know) as the first Empress of the Klingon Empire.
Every Klingon villain: "Oh, so you want to be sung about for eons and maybe become Chancellor/Empress? Yeah, cool, grab your ticket and wait in line like the rest of us"
"I want songs about me" is pretty much one of the main motivations of every Klingon villain, so that's actually not making her better as one.
And just because a villain is powerful and gets things done doesn't mean it's a good villain. Especially when their awesomeness is pretty much the writer going "Well, she can do stuff others didn't think would be possible. OK, if you think about it, it's actually not possible unless the other side grabs the idiot ball for some reason, but who cares, character shilling, yay!"
Lex Luthor managed to get Superman and Batman fight in BvS, but the plan was so convoluted he only got most of what he wanted because the writers wanted so, not because he was good at that.
That's kind of my problem with Julie. She's nothign but a pile of stereotypes wrapped around a villain frame and animated solely by the plot.
Literally generic in every way. You could sub in just about any other spear-carrier top-hat-tie-em-to-the-trax villain in her place.
The big issue here, it does boil down to the writing, which is done as hastily as possible. She doesn't actually have any idea what to do with the power once she's got it, she's the Joker chasing cars, only without the complexity of a dog chasing cars.
There is no 'character' to her character, and no 'strategy' to her grand strategy, just a set of stereotypical set-piece scenes and the same 'Reee!!!' we see with every other stand in for every other low-IQ racist serial killer in movies and television.
It's more of the same thing: what does she want to do once she's taken over? 'put things bck the way they were' means putting things back into the same disorder that was eating the Empire alive in the first place-her objectives aren't passionate, they're outright stupid.
but that's kind of what you can expect with this, isn't it? no thought's really gone into how she could actually motivate anyone, even idiot-ball Klingons to follow her lead in the first place. Oh, right, she's the sister of a failed messiah...
which counts for nothing when it comes to motivating competent followers.
She has no program for how she'll fix the Empire's problems, just a bunch of worn out stereotypes and platitudes.
I want a prime villain that's actually got a clue, one that presents a real choice, an enemy who's worthy of respect, and not because they got some heavy doses of fiat or their temporary opponents drink deeply of the Stupid Juice before every encounter.
a look at the actual state of the EMPIRE might help here too, what's gone on with the economy? how badly strained is J'mPok's leadership? does she offer solutions, or just the same ranty platitudes we've already heard from her opponents/competitors?
so far, she got nothing, some 'magic book'?? really? did we suddenly wind up in a generic fantasy land? We gonna see a Plucky thief, talentless bard, and incompetent mage show up to take her down?
IF Moonves' minions & lackeys have their way, then yes.
Hopefully, God willing, CBS' purge of team Moonves & cronies is successful, and actual fans are given a chance to fix & save DSC.
I agree with at least 90% of your points.
To me it is clear she, like many before and many after, are blinded by their own ambitions and/or egos. Like too many real world politicians & leaders are. And yes, most of those have no clue what to do with their power once they get it, beyond crushing their enemies...
Side note: That said, it is an interesting twist, presenting J'mpok the rare opportunity to be a real hero again.
I think part of the problem is that there is no risk to our characters regardless of the villain. In order to be a true foil, we would have to face some risk. To our reputation, to our life, to our pocketbook, etc.
We saw a hint when the Tholians reduced the Na'kul sun to a brown dwarf, but that was it. The time cops swept in, told us we couldn't fix it and that it was working out the way it was supposed to - loss averted. So the challenge becomes keeping people in jail after we capture them. the two or three that escaped when we had to pick up the founder, Sella, The leader of the Temporal Liberation Front (who's name escapes me at the moment) all had followers that break them out; because that is how you make them a challenge without risk.
I don't know how you would put in the risk, except to make a fail that would not reward the "prize of the week"; just toss you a few dil and make you try again, risking time. I wouldn't want to even see the feedback if they locked out the ship you just had blown up for 20 hours, or a boff in sickbay for a day, or a random item taken from your inventory. I've seen MMOs that do those things, but they were not things you spent real world money on like the ships, or possibly doffs from packs, or items from lock boxes. I wouldn't necessarily be against them taking marks away if the stories were good enough (but that is a big if).
first problem you've identified; there are no risks, everything resets and you win automatically.
Second problem is, no matter what your 'faction' is, you do exactly the same things, in exactly the same way, to get exactly the same result for exactly the same reason.
so there's no choice there, which amplifies the first problem with regard to storytelling.
I mean, they could REALLY do something interesting with J'ula, but they're not going to because everything (and I mean everything) is written with a Federation slant, even scenes that aren't involving any Federation characters.
Hence, she's a one-or-at-most two dimensional baddie, a stand in for N@zis or serial killers, nd that's it.
If choice (maybe factional choice) were to matter, they would have to build episodes in parallel-that is, embracing the possibility of conflict by having the same series of events, but organized with different actual sides and points of view.
Then, choosing the faction has some actual point besides "Well, I took KDF because I like paying more for everything and having key abilities that are irrelevant to the game, and really dig having inferior versions of things while doing everything but licking the boots of the Federation, and that's only because boot-licking is considered 'fetish' and would cost the game their pg-13 rating."
in her case, it'd have to be like 3 missions:
1. Fed mission. everyone knows Fed are the mains, and teh majority,s o they automatically get the standard version with the low-effort auto-win.
2. KDF version 1: oppose J'ula, falls in line with the narrative of (1) but maybe having some different positioning on the map to begin with, and slightly different objectives-including the objective of 'keep the feds from realizing she's a major mover'.
3. KDF version 2: "You know, J'Ula's right!" This one is built from the OpFor position, and lets the authors show that even though (1) and (2) went for the Fed side, she's got secondary and tertiary objectives-possibly even a whole Xanatos Cluster of plans going on so that even though she loses (x) you've accomplished (y) and (z) while the Feds and their lapdogs are chasing shadows.
and have it set up so that if you're playing KDF, you have to pick which (2 or 3) mission you take on, and the other one is locked out.
and then, to get the WHOLE story, you have to have alts covering the other bases, instead of waiting for them to release a blog about it that just makes her look...strident and silly and stereotypical.
then design it like a campaign, have a couple of alternate endings lined up (not choose red or blue, but real alternative outcomes that leave room for her to come back! like "She died" in the Fed mission, or "She'll be back" for the guys running string 3...)
this gives her somethign the other 'big bads' really don't have; she's repeatable. You can do more than one season with her and still have her viable as a villain, because it's 'right there' that she can return, or even win.
TBH they could've done that with Sela too, or T'ket, but unlike T'ket or Sela, J'Ula can actually be justified as a 'player faction asset'-Klingons LOVE them some civil strife.
thing is, they'd have to write her as an asset rather than a prop, capable of threatening the diplomacy of the Alliance or having multiple goals and plans, capable of earning and keeping the loyalty of warriors, someone who's got mroe than "Ree!! I hate everyone!!! I'm VERY AMBITIOUS!! I'm FAMOUS! LOOK AT ME!!!" for a motive.
you know, like someone having Ambitions for her Ambitions-a motive beyond wanting to be glorious or famous or whatever-make her someone who doesn't just wanna change stuff, but has specific ideas that would improve the lot of Klingons and their vassals, but doesn't include sucking up to the UFP.
you know, a viable alternative for real to Jimmy-Pok's Luv fest for the United Federation of Planets, with enough competence that maybe Martok isn't just a rubber stamp, but a real 'playah'.
They ain't gonna do it, but that's what I'd say would be 'good enough' to tolerate Discovery intrusions into the setting-give the comic-book-villainess some actual depth and style, a reason that Klingon Nationalists and Populists would rally to her cause and reject the internationalists like J'mpok and Martok.
and no, rampant xenophobia isn't gonna cut it for this, it doesn't pass the 'rational Klingon' test. (iow, if you're about as rational as a klingon and it looks like a dumb idea, it's probably bonecrushingly stupid enough you won't do it.)
give her, in other words, an actual program and platform, like real life leaders have, a genuine cause that doesn't just attract incompetents, has-beens, and never-weres.
for example, opposition to unequal treaties that exploit the Klingon people to benefit the UFP. (aka the constant flow of tech-transfers in-game from KDF to Fed players), demanding that the KDF get their act together and stop sacrificing good warriors to protect FED assets (should we go down the list?), opposing unequal alliances with liars and cheats (Kobali Prime comes to mind here), assertion of Klingon Sovereignty (Why DID we give back that territory? why are KDF units being used as disposable shock troops? Kagran's frontal assault immediately comes to mind from the Iconian war.) WHY is the KDF listening to "Agent Daniels" from a Temporal bureau that is really just a Federation Regime and Hegemony protection force?
give her some actual causes to champion like "Truth about Praxis!" and some hard-to-disprove allegations that spin events in ways that the UFP doesn't benefit from...in Character, so that players can CHOOSE who their characters believe.
all of the above are good 'conflict generators' and don't require the villain of the quarter to be a TRIBBLE moron, they are all things that could easily be used to make it rational for players to line up on 'sides' in-game, providing 'stakes' to their factional choices, with just enough 'information blanks' that to get the full story, you have to play both sides on different toons.
which is something that is sustainable-because it can't be burned through on your fed main in an afternoon.
It's also a situation that could be epic enough to get gamer press coverage and win some real awards, because it's something nobody else has already done to death.
THIS. This would be epic. This is the kind of adventure, the kind of challenge, we crave.
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards =A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..." PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins. T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
-first appearance: appears looking smug, surrounded by two guards right in front of the captain, shouting "who is in command?!", turning around and going in the captain's face, spreading her arms like a wrestler going all "look at how awesome I am", big sigh and eye-roll and two-fist uppercut when the captain tells her to get lost, grabs the guy by the uniform and says a cliche'd "if you insist"
-second appearance via hologram: "do I have your attention?! Silence and gimme all your stuff!", gets denied and turns around dramatically, opening her mouth wide to stab the unable-to-stand Captain. "Now die like a Klingon, Captain!".
-Third appearance: "Digging through scraps? Pathetic!"[...] "You're persistent. Now die!" [...] "Your death will be swift!" [...] "It'd be wise not to follow me... cowardly but wise!" [...] "Today is a good day to die!" [...] pretty much Klingonese equivalent of "You haven't seen the last of me, I'll be back!"
-4th appearance: "Ha, I somehow managed to guess the Glenn would be the one ship sent here to fall into my trap, excellent!"
-5th appearance: "This tech will win the war... FOR US! That'll make me the top dog of the Empire!"
-Last appearance: "Still alive? Good, I'll enjoy breaking you!"
All her appearances can be resumed in 2 things: hammy shouts and cliched simple sentences. Sure the former is a given for Klingon warriors, but it should come with something else.
Chang was affable, cultured, accepting of his death, smooth when needed, scheming, willing to make an alliance with a Federation conspiracy and having the time of his life when dealing with the Enterprise crew.
Kruge loved his pet, was willing to take hostages to bargain for Genesis (and not just because it was a powerful weapon, but a dangerous one too) and infuriated when his gunner decides to kill them first, clever as to guess something was wrong with the Enterprise, willing to kill witnesses (though he didn't like it), crushed when his crew was killed and willing to avenge them himself even when the duel location was falling apart.
Gowron was over-the-top, funny, had big eyes, was willing to compromise and be honorable, even recognizing courage (like with Quark, a Ferengi) and having noble moments, but was also kind of an hypocrite about all that when it suited him, and willing to drag a good chunk of the empire for a personal vendetta with Martok because he was that petty.
D'Ghor was willing to use... MONEY! to bring down a House and was a greedy, dishonorable coward. Something very unusual for a Klingon.
J'Ula? She boasts and shouts, can hack stuff, and wants to destroy the Federation and cause a Civil War in the Empire. OK, cool... Anything else?
Also, let's suppose she manages to plunge the Empire into chaos with enough allies and gain a massive support or even become chancellor.
Now, she has the Federation, part of the Empire, the Romulan Republic, the Delta Quadrant alliance, the Dominion, the Cardassian Union, part of the Tzenkethi Coalition, Section 31, the Lukari, and the Kentari looking at her annoying, time-displaced, shouting self with the finger above the fire-at-will button. And that's excluding the other less friendly super powers she could tick off like the Undine, the Iconians, the Tholians, the Borg, the Voth, the Terran Empire, etc.
But she's not hammy. That's what I'm trying to say! Why is everyone saying she is when we have no real idea? Let them develop the character for crying out loud!
Actually, she's not only hammy, she's literally nothing but a collection of anti-Klingon stereotypes. RE-READ the blog, re-play the missions. Nothing there shows her as being intelligent, she's shown as entitled and lucky, with a side order of homicidal mania.
She doesn't have a program, a 'Platform' that is in any way rational unless she's a collection of negative stereotypes.
it really is the "No Redeeming Qualities" problem. There's no reason, for example, for my Klingon Nationalist (Who ardently opposes the Alliance with the Federation as an attack on Klingon Sovereignty) to follow her lead other than her being related to a failed messiah from two hundred years ago-she wasn't there when the Fek"Ihri raided Qo'noS, she wasn't there when the Undine came to try and make the Klingon People extinct, she wasn't there, and she doesn't know anything.
Warriors who can fight, who can strategize, whom are not idiots, aren't going to follow her-because she blatantly has nothing to offer them that they aren't already getting from the sitting Chancellor.
for this to work, for this to be Awesome and amazing, J'ula needs to be more than "T'ket with ridges" mixed with Hillary Clinton (whose primary poltical accomplishment was marrying well in the eighties), she needs to be made truly scary in ways STO isn't used to doing.
as it sits currently, her 'ability and competence' are stated, but not shown, and what is shown, even in the blogs is a wad of stereotypes that is practically branded with "designated to lose."
There is so much more that could be done with this, they could build her into a really epic villain, something that provides energy and movement and makes the whole thing more exciting, challenging, and varied than it's been since LoR.
She could be a means to revitalize whole areas of the game that have dropped into doldrums, provide new challenges to players, rather than just repeating the same "Kill X/timegate/scan Y" missions.
Now, you know I don't care for Discovery, but that's not an excuse for the guys at Cryptic to phone it in the way they're doing. They should be using this to push envelopes and make their new Content The most awesome and surprising it can be, if for no other reason than to buy 'second chances' for the show among people (Like me) who don't care for it.
This is a chance to really SHOW the lads and ladies at CBS how to do a long-running plot, the right way, how to make villains that are truly iconic and carry with them impact and style.
There's a basic rule with heroic fiction: "It's not heroic if it's easy", this goes across a whole selection of elements-when the villain is stupid, and wins only by fiat, they're boring and by extension, the heroes are also boring.
"Flaws only matter if they're actual flaws." is another one, and finally "Show-me-don't-tell me." The only way J'ula can 'show' nad have it credible, is through Player character eyes...well, we've got a whole other faction in the game, plenty of player character eyes to see her being competent, clever and effective, but that's not what they've done thus far.
There's still time but they have already TRIBBLE up part of that with this blog, because she just comes out as a pile of negative anti-Klingon propaganda mixed with an excessive interest in one dimensional fantasy villainy.
a this whole thing is an example of what is wrong with the direction of 'only serving the majority' at Cryptic, what should be (ought to be) a compelling villainous presence, an effective antagonist, is left being just another strident n@zi analogue.
I agree with you Patrickngo. I'm writing a fanfic about my characters' defeat by a competent J'Ula at Alpha Centauri to buy time for the Lopan/Pokemon Alliance to fortify Sol. I need help in making her a believable antagonist.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
i would prefer anyone doing work on klingon content NOT be paid, actually; unpaid work is always better than the paid stuff when it comes to videogames because the people who do something when they aren't being paid are doing it purely because they WANT to - just look at any of the big, popular mods out there for literally any moddable game for proof
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
But she's not hammy. That's what I'm trying to say! Why is everyone saying she is when we have no real idea? Let them develop the character for crying out loud!
Actually, she's not only hammy, she's literally nothing but a collection of anti-Klingon stereotypes. RE-READ the blog, re-play the missions. Nothing there shows her as being intelligent, she's shown as entitled and lucky, with a side order of homicidal mania.
She doesn't have a program, a 'Platform' that is in any way rational unless she's a collection of negative stereotypes.
it really is the "No Redeeming Qualities" problem. There's no reason, for example, for my Klingon Nationalist (Who ardently opposes the Alliance with the Federation as an attack on Klingon Sovereignty) to follow her lead other than her being related to a failed messiah from two hundred years ago-she wasn't there when the Fek"Ihri raided Qo'noS, she wasn't there when the Undine came to try and make the Klingon People extinct, she wasn't there, and she doesn't know anything.
Warriors who can fight, who can strategize, whom are not idiots, aren't going to follow her-because she blatantly has nothing to offer them that they aren't already getting from the sitting Chancellor.
for this to work, for this to be Awesome and amazing, J'ula needs to be more than "T'ket with ridges" mixed with Hillary Clinton (whose primary poltical accomplishment was marrying well in the eighties), she needs to be made truly scary in ways STO isn't used to doing.
as it sits currently, her 'ability and competence' are stated, but not shown, and what is shown, even in the blogs is a wad of stereotypes that is practically branded with "designated to lose."
There is so much more that could be done with this, they could build her into a really epic villain, something that provides energy and movement and makes the whole thing more exciting, challenging, and varied than it's been since LoR.
She could be a means to revitalize whole areas of the game that have dropped into doldrums, provide new challenges to players, rather than just repeating the same "Kill X/timegate/scan Y" missions.
Now, you know I don't care for Discovery, but that's not an excuse for the guys at Cryptic to phone it in the way they're doing. They should be using this to push envelopes and make their new Content The most awesome and surprising it can be, if for no other reason than to buy 'second chances' for the show among people (Like me) who don't care for it.
This is a chance to really SHOW the lads and ladies at CBS how to do a long-running plot, the right way, how to make villains that are truly iconic and carry with them impact and style.
There's a basic rule with heroic fiction: "It's not heroic if it's easy", this goes across a whole selection of elements-when the villain is stupid, and wins only by fiat, they're boring and by extension, the heroes are also boring.
"Flaws only matter if they're actual flaws." is another one, and finally "Show-me-don't-tell me." The only way J'ula can 'show' nad have it credible, is through Player character eyes...well, we've got a whole other faction in the game, plenty of player character eyes to see her being competent, clever and effective, but that's not what they've done thus far.
There's still time but they have already TRIBBLE up part of that with this blog, because she just comes out as a pile of negative anti-Klingon propaganda mixed with an excessive interest in one dimensional fantasy villainy.
a this whole thing is an example of what is wrong with the direction of 'only serving the majority' at Cryptic, what should be (ought to be) a compelling villainous presence, an effective antagonist, is left being just another strident n@zi analogue.
I agree with you Patrickngo. I'm writing a fanfic about my characters' defeat by a competent J'Ula at Alpha Centauri to buy time for the Lopan/Pokemon Alliance to fortify Sol. I need help in making her a believable antagonist.
Lo-Pan. My Next DSC Tac Captain! *Evil grin, maniacal laughter...*
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards =A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..." PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins. T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
And by defeat, I mean a tactical retreat to Ganymede Station with 5 surviving ships (includes the Avalon and Fenris). The Sol system is divided between 3 factions (Lopan Confederacy, Sol Empire, and UFP) in my setting.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
@patrickngo,how do you define someone as competent? What are the criteria for competence?
well, think of it this way;
if he's charging uncloaked at a herald sphere where his force is outnumbered, at a tech disadvantage, against a fortified enemy? He's probably NOT competent. (Kagran, imho, is not competent.)
Do the plans your villain is making, make sense? that is, given the technical limits of the setting, do they have a pretty good chance of success? Will they achieve more than one objective?
do those objectives 'stack up'? Do they have a backup plan? Is the backup plan reasonably intelligent? did they keep a reserve? is that reserve reasonably effective?
Do the military and political objectives work together? Can they be achieved using some lower-effort strategy? does your villain weigh risk/reward ratios? When they take risks, do they bother to find ways to reduce those risks and increase the chance of success, or do they pile everything on all-or-nothing 'plans' that a five-year-old could poke holes in?
did they bother to use scouts, did they bother to examine the enemy's capabilities, disposition, and numbers? Does your villain carefully use their assets, or do they toss them away foolishly on minor objectives?
A Competent warrior (war leader) knows the best uses for their subordinates, they study the techniques, tactics and habits of their enemy, they use information to plan their operations, they have a backup plan, they have secondary objectives, they don't waste assets, but husband them tightly (aka not stabbing your informant just because you find them irritating, not stealing from your supply line, not doing things that give anyone around your side a reason to stab you in the back.)
a competent war-leader doesn't send their men on suicide missions without a larger plan, they focus on missions that grant victory against the enemy, rather than seeking random battle.
When he or she DOES use suicide missions, it's always in service to a larger objective, one that can't be achieved by less costly methods.
just think about your Sun Tzu or Von Clauswicz-both are examples of highly successful military thinking. When near, appear far, when far, appear close, know your enemy and you know yourself and you will not be defeated in a thousand battles.
The Competent Klingon doesn't take high risk moves unless it provides a strong (better than 50%) chance of victory, and he withdraws if he's losing, (an organized withdrawal is the first step in a successful counter-attack), and doesn't over-extend if he's winning (doesn't outrun his supply line, doesn't outrun his reserves). he or she has secondary objectives in mind with that withdrawal (inflict damage, confuse the enemy, decieve them) and knows how to 'fake a rout' to draw an enemy force into a trap.
as Kirk said, "It's a chess game". Klingon warfare is all about positioning and controlling the engagement-the use of Cloak to secure initiative, surgical strikes to cripple an opponent, ruthless ferocity when an advantage is obtained and recognizing when an advantage is false or misleading (thus being cautious).
Here's another example of supreme incompetence from the game besides Kagran: Franklin Drake in the Klingon leveling missions. He could've achieved his objective with half the bloodshed by sending Worf an email. "Yo, Worf old boy! Torg is tryna' kill ya, you might want to look into that."
Instead he lets himself get caught by a Klingon captain on whom he fails to do his homework. Jurlek immediately tries to sell him back to the Federation, resulting in a mutiny and the destruction of USS Musashi (Section 31 scores own goal! The Klingon crowd goes wild!). He's transported to a homeworld prison, escapes, and fails to check his six for pursuers, leading them straight to a Starfleet Intelligence listening post (another own goal!). He finally figures out he needs to check his six and sends a false distress signal, a bonafide war crime that brings Federation ships deep into Klingon space and gets them killed, too (own goal again!). It's only then that he leads the pursuer to the information he wants them to find, which gets Worf involved.
So, eight steps, three of which got people from Drake's own side killed for no good reason. It's a stupidly overcomplicated plan that only succeeds because of sheer dumb luck: that the KDF PC -- a young, ambitious, aggressive junior officer -- isn't so pissed off after chasing Drake across half the sector block that s/he guns him down on sight when s/he finally catches up to him on Rura Penthe. It's things like that which convince me Section 31's reputation is significantly overblown, because either they have serious complexity addictions and are therefore incompetent, or they lack the influence they claim to have and therefore this nonsense was necessary.
Another example: the Klingon idiot who tries to take the ambassador off your hands in the second Fed mission after the tutorial. What intelligent individual would seriously expect an enemy commanding officer to turn over an ambassador to him on no evidence whatsoever during a declared state of war? He's frankly lucky the Fed PC was in a charitable mood and listened at all rather than blasting him on sight. "Klingon Defense Force regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid."
Point being, @xungnguyen, if you're deliberately writing a supposedly intelligent character, like a command-level officer, doing something that makes absolutely no sense given reported capabilities, current conditions, and mission goals, you'd either damn well better have a good explanation later for why it actually makes sense (and not one you need to consult the game manual/deleted scenes/the website/your author's notes/your little brother's birthday cake to find), or you need to go back to the drawing board.
Lest you think I can only be negative, here's a good example of how to do such a thing and have it make sense: Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. Per Vader, the Empire knows where the Rebel fleet is assembling. The sensible solution is not to wait for them to come to you and put yourself personally at risk, but rather to immediately dogpile them with every ship within flight time of Sullust. Why does Palpy not take that solution? Because, unlike his Imperial Navy subordinates, military defeat of the Rebellion is not his primary goal. His primary goal is turning Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side as a replacement for his current number two who has proven untrustworthy. Defeating the Rebellion is part of the plan, but it's not the end goal, it's a means to achieve the end goal.
And do remember your Sun Tzu: "Hence, to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence. Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." It's even entirely possible to lose almost every battle but still win the war. George Washington was a terrible general on paper: he lost nearly every battle he fought in his entire career. But he was a genius at minimizing losses and maintaining morale and army cohesion. He knew didn't have to win the Revolution himself, he just had to not lose for long enough that Ben Franklin could get the French to join in.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Dukat was a villain done well, STO needs a villain to that calibre. Dukat was charming when he had to be but ruthless behind that mask
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
And by defeat, I mean a tactical retreat to Ganymede Station with 5 surviving ships (includes the Avalon and Fenris). The Sol system is divided between 3 factions (Lopan Confederacy, Sol Empire, and UFP) in my setting.
we saw this with the Undine infiltration; the Klingons were right about it and yet, on the KDF side, zero mission or playable content was given over to it,
The problem with this is that the KDF didn't have a clear target, and while they had some names they had no actual PROOF. Oh and their methods were... dumb.
Maybe they can interject some romance in the story. No faster way to add a dimension to and soften up a character then have them fall in love. It would be Lady J’Ula and Starfleet Hero Guy. And all the angst during a war....opposites attract...yadda yadda...
What??? Have I gotten into too many Hallmark Christmas Romance Movies already this season?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Maybe they can interject some romance in the story. No faster way to add a dimension to and soften up a character then have them fall in love. It would be Lady J’Ula and Starfleet Hero Guy. And all the angst during a war....opposites attract...yadda yadda...
What??? Have I gotten into too many Hallmark Christmas Romance Movies already this season?
LOL, and you thought the complaints about forcing Tovan into the toon's backstory were bad...
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
So basically a f-tonne of TRIBBLE writers-flat.
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
=A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser
"There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."
PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
My character Tsin'xing
We saw a hint when the Tholians reduced the Na'kul sun to a brown dwarf, but that was it. The time cops swept in, told us we couldn't fix it and that it was working out the way it was supposed to - loss averted. So the challenge becomes keeping people in jail after we capture them. the two or three that escaped when we had to pick up the founder, Sella, The leader of the Temporal Liberation Front (who's name escapes me at the moment) all had followers that break them out; because that is how you make them a challenge without risk.
I don't know how you would put in the risk, except to make a fail that would not reward the "prize of the week"; just toss you a few dil and make you try again, risking time. I wouldn't want to even see the feedback if they locked out the ship you just had blown up for 20 hours, or a boff in sickbay for a day, or a random item taken from your inventory. I've seen MMOs that do those things, but they were not things you spent real world money on like the ships, or possibly doffs from packs, or items from lock boxes. I wouldn't necessarily be against them taking marks away if the stories were good enough (but that is a big if).
Like for instance, have J'Ula manage to trash your ship and capture you and you're stuck with her for some time.
Doff, Admirality, open quadrants, stores? All unavailable for now, you're just locked in her jail and forced to listen to her, do some holo simulations, as she tries to break you for interfering with her plans. For a few hours, you have no choice: you must try to break free to gain access to the rest of the game again, you have to be more involved than before, you can't just beam out of the mission or log out and in, you're trapped, you have something to lose.
Heck, even make the holo simulations hopeless where you lose repeatedly or have some older missions twisted to have bad endings. Or make it seem you're being rescued and then, nope, just another simulation, no hope for you. Make the player feel something.
Except in the process (and especially if you have a high Diplomacy rank), you turn this around her as you slowly deconstruct her fanaticism and biases, bringing more of her personality and motivations to light. Whether you succeed in making her give up and try to do something in the Empire or she continues in her path while she acknowledges she has nothing to live for anymore because she's a relic of the past, best to go extinct. When done right, a game that focuses on interactions with other characters can work, even if there isn't much else.
Take Night in the Woods, for example. You spend most of the time chatting with the exact same people at the exact same places, taking the exact same paths, and the playable character is a lazy womanchild who can be frustrating at first and who makes things worse, and yet it gives you something that makes you want to continue because the characters develop and can be very relatable.
Surely, something at a lesser degree could be done to make some characters in STO, like J'Ula, interesting and not just "generic villain of the season n°47" to kill in a climatic battle, whose defeat will have zero repercussions to anyone else, because a new season is on the way.
What do we know outside of what we've been given?
She is a character from the comics. That means we have some backstory that we're not seeing here. She wasn't created for STO. And she certainly isn't Hakeev.
What do we know? She's smart. She's dangerous. She's able to circumvent High End Starfleet Security with the skill of an Intelligence Agent. That is all we know right now. We're going to learn more about her as we get more story missions and any story blogs centered on her.
Let it frickin' play out before passing judgement. We don't have the full story yet.
IF Moonves' minions & lackeys have their way, then yes.
Hopefully, God willing, CBS' purge of team Moonves & cronies is successful, and actual fans are given a chance to fix & save DSC.
I agree with at least 90% of your points.
To me it is clear she, like many before and many after, are blinded by their own ambitions and/or egos. Like too many real world politicians & leaders are. And yes, most of those have no clue what to do with their power once they get it, beyond crushing their enemies...
Side note: That said, it is an interesting twist, presenting J'mpok the rare opportunity to be a real hero again.
THIS. This would be epic. This is the kind of adventure, the kind of challenge, we crave.
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
=A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser
"There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."
PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
-second appearance via hologram: "do I have your attention?! Silence and gimme all your stuff!", gets denied and turns around dramatically, opening her mouth wide to stab the unable-to-stand Captain. "Now die like a Klingon, Captain!".
-Third appearance: "Digging through scraps? Pathetic!"[...] "You're persistent. Now die!" [...] "Your death will be swift!" [...] "It'd be wise not to follow me... cowardly but wise!" [...] "Today is a good day to die!" [...] pretty much Klingonese equivalent of "You haven't seen the last of me, I'll be back!"
-4th appearance: "Ha, I somehow managed to guess the Glenn would be the one ship sent here to fall into my trap, excellent!"
-5th appearance: "This tech will win the war... FOR US! That'll make me the top dog of the Empire!"
-Last appearance: "Still alive? Good, I'll enjoy breaking you!"
All her appearances can be resumed in 2 things: hammy shouts and cliched simple sentences. Sure the former is a given for Klingon warriors, but it should come with something else.
Chang was affable, cultured, accepting of his death, smooth when needed, scheming, willing to make an alliance with a Federation conspiracy and having the time of his life when dealing with the Enterprise crew.
Kruge loved his pet, was willing to take hostages to bargain for Genesis (and not just because it was a powerful weapon, but a dangerous one too) and infuriated when his gunner decides to kill them first, clever as to guess something was wrong with the Enterprise, willing to kill witnesses (though he didn't like it), crushed when his crew was killed and willing to avenge them himself even when the duel location was falling apart.
Gowron was over-the-top, funny, had big eyes, was willing to compromise and be honorable, even recognizing courage (like with Quark, a Ferengi) and having noble moments, but was also kind of an hypocrite about all that when it suited him, and willing to drag a good chunk of the empire for a personal vendetta with Martok because he was that petty.
D'Ghor was willing to use... MONEY! to bring down a House and was a greedy, dishonorable coward. Something very unusual for a Klingon.
J'Ula? She boasts and shouts, can hack stuff, and wants to destroy the Federation and cause a Civil War in the Empire. OK, cool... Anything else?
Also, let's suppose she manages to plunge the Empire into chaos with enough allies and gain a massive support or even become chancellor.
Now, she has the Federation, part of the Empire, the Romulan Republic, the Delta Quadrant alliance, the Dominion, the Cardassian Union, part of the Tzenkethi Coalition, Section 31, the Lukari, and the Kentari looking at her annoying, time-displaced, shouting self with the finger above the fire-at-will button. And that's excluding the other less friendly super powers she could tick off like the Undine, the Iconians, the Tholians, the Borg, the Voth, the Terran Empire, etc.
I agree with you Patrickngo. I'm writing a fanfic about my characters' defeat by a competent J'Ula at Alpha Centauri to buy time for the Lopan/Pokemon Alliance to fortify Sol. I need help in making her a believable antagonist.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
Lo-Pan. My Next DSC Tac Captain!
[SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
=A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser
"There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."
PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
"Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are … you are my son and the one true king." (Mufasa)
Here's another example of supreme incompetence from the game besides Kagran: Franklin Drake in the Klingon leveling missions. He could've achieved his objective with half the bloodshed by sending Worf an email. "Yo, Worf old boy! Torg is tryna' kill ya, you might want to look into that."
Instead he lets himself get caught by a Klingon captain on whom he fails to do his homework. Jurlek immediately tries to sell him back to the Federation, resulting in a mutiny and the destruction of USS Musashi (Section 31 scores own goal! The Klingon crowd goes wild!). He's transported to a homeworld prison, escapes, and fails to check his six for pursuers, leading them straight to a Starfleet Intelligence listening post (another own goal!). He finally figures out he needs to check his six and sends a false distress signal, a bonafide war crime that brings Federation ships deep into Klingon space and gets them killed, too (own goal again!). It's only then that he leads the pursuer to the information he wants them to find, which gets Worf involved.
So, eight steps, three of which got people from Drake's own side killed for no good reason. It's a stupidly overcomplicated plan that only succeeds because of sheer dumb luck: that the KDF PC -- a young, ambitious, aggressive junior officer -- isn't so pissed off after chasing Drake across half the sector block that s/he guns him down on sight when s/he finally catches up to him on Rura Penthe. It's things like that which convince me Section 31's reputation is significantly overblown, because either they have serious complexity addictions and are therefore incompetent, or they lack the influence they claim to have and therefore this nonsense was necessary.
Another example: the Klingon idiot who tries to take the ambassador off your hands in the second Fed mission after the tutorial. What intelligent individual would seriously expect an enemy commanding officer to turn over an ambassador to him on no evidence whatsoever during a declared state of war? He's frankly lucky the Fed PC was in a charitable mood and listened at all rather than blasting him on sight. "Klingon Defense Force regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid."
Point being, @xungnguyen, if you're deliberately writing a supposedly intelligent character, like a command-level officer, doing something that makes absolutely no sense given reported capabilities, current conditions, and mission goals, you'd either damn well better have a good explanation later for why it actually makes sense (and not one you need to consult the game manual/deleted scenes/the website/your author's notes/your little brother's birthday cake to find), or you need to go back to the drawing board.
Lest you think I can only be negative, here's a good example of how to do such a thing and have it make sense: Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. Per Vader, the Empire knows where the Rebel fleet is assembling. The sensible solution is not to wait for them to come to you and put yourself personally at risk, but rather to immediately dogpile them with every ship within flight time of Sullust. Why does Palpy not take that solution? Because, unlike his Imperial Navy subordinates, military defeat of the Rebellion is not his primary goal. His primary goal is turning Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side as a replacement for his current number two who has proven untrustworthy. Defeating the Rebellion is part of the plan, but it's not the end goal, it's a means to achieve the end goal.
And do remember your Sun Tzu: "Hence, to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence. Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." It's even entirely possible to lose almost every battle but still win the war. George Washington was a terrible general on paper: he lost nearly every battle he fought in his entire career. But he was a genius at minimizing losses and maintaining morale and army cohesion. He knew didn't have to win the Revolution himself, he just had to not lose for long enough that Ben Franklin could get the French to join in.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The tales suggest he was slain in battle though.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
What??? Have I gotten into too many Hallmark Christmas Romance Movies already this season?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/