"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'll counter that and say it's a false flag by CBS to make Discovery look more legitimate. (I mean, if you're going to break out the tinfoil hat, might as well make it a good one.)
Here's one better:
After months of trying to contact CBS the developer ultimately reaches a dead end. So, he reaches out to sympathetic youtube pundits who've given him favorable coverage (it fits their narrative). Complete with details about an alleged conversation (which at least one pundit claims to have, BTW, and he probably didn't get it from CBS) these guys make the case with the declaration that this isn't going away (its a big deal) with the conflict stated to be little guy (who says he's filing suit) to unsympathetic corporation (with characterization from the alleged conversation to boot.) Ie. calls to mob action.
Whether or not the case was filed, and what its prospects are if so, is immaterial. The goal is to rile up a significant part of the community to force a PR issue which CBS acknowledges and capitulates to (irrespective of the details of the case, what these guys are hoping for is corporate reflex action) thus giving a black eye to the show and vindication for an indie dev who, quite factually speaking [see. key dates], could have had little to do with the development of Discovery. That or it simply hangs over the production as a continual detractor (hey, remember when they stole that thing. Ha ha, yes. Our opinions are justified.)
Unless these guys come up with documents that can be independently corroborated, I wouldn't take it on faith (especially in light of disingenuous reporting from the start) that this most recent round of blogging-on-blogging is in fact on the level (which goes without saying but it's popcorn time so...)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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I don't think they got a case, as you have to very deliberately and selectively pick on things that might resemble DSC, the trailer meant to showcase the game has little resemblance to the show.
It was also released July, 2017; the same month CBS debuted the extended Discovery trailer which included scenes involving the Tardigrade.
Also, if you look at the development thread for the game, this trailer has little to do with most of what's been shown for said game (I did a little research when this came up in the main Age of Discovery thread.) It should be noted that:
The game has yet to be released or publicly tested. Development started a few years ago (under the name "Epoch") with infrequent updates marking progress. What we have are individual frames, test animations, and vague trailers on youtube (of disconnected tone and content.) Only one item (the July 2017 trailer) includes a Tardigrade as more than just a logo. Prior: the dev was posting Egyptian architecture, market stalls, nude cave diving, a questionable shower scene, a bit with an old man in a brown robe (venerable monk?), abstract wormhole FX (including what appears to be another plane of reality) generic sci-fi interiors, and some verdant green exteriors. If replication had been attempted during DSC's production, it would have been impractical to anticipate where the game would go with its July trailer (nothing I've found foreshadowed the presence of large Tardigrades or their direct involvement with FTL travel, the focus was on sci-fi ancient Egypt and generic space settings.)
The "Stamets" is a Kirk-style lead who happens to be a botanist (his background may be providing context but it doesn't appear core to his actions or interactions. There is very little dialog available.) Early descriptions state that he has a girlfriend and some trailers show him interacting with a cat in space (which we can presume is his.)
The "Burnham" is the communications officer, a la Uhura, and doesn't appear to have much involvement beyond that role.
The "Culver"...this is an ergregious comparison with Discovery. He's a white guy with a brown beard (filling in what appears to be a Bones-esque friendship with the lead), it's a very select piece of "shadowy" animation (posted after Cruz was cast) that's being used in the comparison videos.
The "Tilly," a member of another team. She has red hair and its very difficult to say whether she only appears in one scene (where she's piloting a two-seat space fighter) or adopts a much larger role in the game (one can infer a rival team dynamic with frequent contact but I don't think that's been established yet.)
There are many other characters showcased in the game of equal or greater prominence, each primarily distinguished by hair color (for the sake of the main game's rendering capabilities.) It's worth noting because the game is casting a wide net, making incidental similarities more likely.
The setting is Egypt 20,000 BC, following the Stargate mold of imagining that to be the product of an ancient space-faring culture.
The sci-fi interiors also seem inspired by the Daedalus, circa Stargate SG-1 (though "generic modern sci-fi" including Aliens, the Expanse, Starship Troopers, and Halo would also do.)
The "spores" segment is a wormhole scene posted Aug 2015, sans Tardigrade. It does, however, resemble a Stargate portal (rendered as a sphere of moving dots to resemble the ripple effect at a glance.)
The plot seems to be a re-imagined Dune prequel, including the formation of deserts in the title locations and Tardigrades standing in (apparently) for both Guild Navigator and Sandworm (blue also matching the deep blue of spice saturated eyes). The connection between works is very directly established with the dev lifting the intro from the 1984 Dune movie for one of his trailers.
Now to do all this as an indie project is a technical accomplishment (though it remains to be seen whether the dev is building a coherent narrative, realizing characters, and coupling that to a complimentary tone; there's been very little dialog posted) but there's still no getting around the fact that this is derivative work. In detail, it doesn't resemble Discovery and any vague similarities either follow from convergent evolution (placing Tardigrades as a pop-science stand-in for alien life [following notable NASA experiments and evangelization by Tyson in Cosmos 2.0), because look at the thing) or genre trends and archetypes (with the Tardigrades game sticking to them and Discovery [in the case of characters] subverting them].)
I don't blame the dev in this, because from comments I've seen he's been surrounded by an echo chamber that's bought into the "CBS stole your work" narrative (without checking the precise dates) and that's a very unusual place to find yourself in while working on a project like this. I do blame those who publicized the issue without doing due diligence in research, they've "taken the side" of an indie dev and tacitly encouraged a lawsuit without appreciating, in full, what that is objectively up against simply to fulfill a dramatic narrative. Win or lose, they're entertained.
He actually put the game on Steam Greenlight in 2014
He actually put the game on Steam Greenlight in 2014
Yup, and he's continued to work on it since. Remember that a Steam Greenlight requires only a concept for the game, not a completed work, to be accepted. From there, they received some support to help eventually bring that game to the marketplace.
Tardigrades has yet to be released.
And as a reminder, the first unveiling of large Tardigrades and their role in the game was July 12th, 2017 (date verified through cross posts from his dev thread); well into Discovery's production and almost certainly after Tardigrade scenes were not only conceived but filmed for Discovery. The Tardigrades game was originally promoted through generic sci-fi interiors and some character art (a portion of which you've seen.) At the time Discovery was conceived, the game had evolved into a fairly derivative mash-up between Stargate and Dune with unproven character dynamics (there's almost no dialog available from the game) and little to offer any production looking for inspiration. That is, unless you assume (because madness) that a CBS Star Trek production would have any trouble casting a few actors or designing ship interiors and for whatever reason didn't just say "let's have a few TOS characters with some ship hallways like they had in SG-1" (much more immediately available) and instead plagiarized a game that could be described on those same terms (because madness.)
#ContextIsForKings
And note that because of this issue the developer is getting a lot more attention for the project. I don't think he's likely to step into the middle and say "You know what guys, this isn't a big deal" like I would if ever someone noticed how close the details are for SSF season 1 and DSC season 1. 4 characters in common? Bah, I've got 8 including personality and character dynamics [all absent from Tardigrades comparisons] with one species design (Conclave mirrors DSC Klingons) a major technological innovation (instantaneous travel, down to the level of individuals) and three major plot points (confrontation with a bomb set to commit genocide that ends in reconciliation, fall of the self-serving lead of a noble Klingon house starting with the letters Ko, and dramatic reveal that a human tactical officer is actually a Klingon operator with major political connections and personal relationship to another one of the lead characters.)
And that just goes to show how common convergent evolution can be while working from a given cultural reference point (the sci-fi genre as it is now) and objective set (compelling sci-fi drama in that cultural context.) It's a mark of our shared humanity and illuminating to the process of creative writing. Learn from it, and if so desired take pride in the fact that you (in some carefully chosen respects) were able to meet a separate professional production.
Plagiarism? If there's direct evidence make a point but it takes a lot more than what's being supplied to substantiate the argument.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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I'll counter that and say it's a false flag by CBS to make Discovery look more legitimate. (I mean, if you're going to break out the tinfoil hat, might as well make it a good one.)
Well, the weird thing is... there seems to be proof out there that there were "significant changes" to the mycelial network, the spore drive and the tartigrade, after Brian Fuller left the set.
The Tardigrade character in Fuller's original conception of DISCO was VERY DIFFERENT from what appeared on screen. Actually a crew member, named Ephraim, he worked in engineering. Clearly, after Fuller's departure, SOMEONE did indeed see this game, and was obviously "inspired."
Again, in the original conception of DISCO...the whole idea of spores was all about terraforming. There was no spore drive. Clearly, that was a result of reworking what Fuller had done. It was clearly a cross between the Tardigrade game and the Guild Navigators from Dune.
... And let me just say...he (Brian Fuller) absolutely DID NOT rip off the tardigrade game. Again...his version of the Tardigrade was a Discovery crew member named Ephraim, who worked with Stamnets in Engineering. Clearly inspired by Chewbacca if anything.
You are probably asking... "who the h3ll is Robert Meyer Burnett"? Well, by his admission (https://www.acast.com/wordballooncomicbookspodcast/star-trek-discovery-mid-season-review-with-trekspert-robert-meyer-burnett timestamp 18:25) he is someone who has read all of Brian Fuller's original script for Star Trek: Discovery. He is also one of the people at Collider doing reviews on TRIBBLE. Looking at his history within the industry, I feel he is legitimate. His claims would be easy to disprove and he would lose considerable standing within the Star Trek community (if not his employment) if he was lying.
This guys is a Discovery troll with no connection to any Star Trek series. He is the former director of Axanar (quote: "as synonymous with the AXANAR project as Alec Peters himself") and editor to Prelude to Axanar (fancy leaving that out... ). Recent examples of his work include trying to unilaterally declare Discovery as non-canon because they tweaked the Enterprise.
Per an Alex Kurtzman panel interview reported on Trekmovie, they abandoned the original inception of the Tardigrade after it became apparent that a Tardigrade officer couldn't be realized through practical effects or (presumably) cost effective animation. This account has been bastardized in the tweet you've quoted.
"So we have this tardigrade and for those that don’t know it is a microscopic creature that lives in water and it is part of an ecosystem. And like all Trek allegories, what you see is not always what you get so what may look like a monster may not be that, even though the creature has been introduced as such. In the original conception, the tardigrade was one of the bridge crew members…It was going to be like you come in and there was Mary and there was Shazad and then there is Ephraim [named for the first zoologist to observe tardigrades]. It would have been really cool because he would have just been there."
Kurtzman went on to say that in the end they “just couldn’t pull it off.” Harberts also revealed that the idea was to have the tardigrade character as a member of the bridge crew and it got as far as them building a puppet for the character to be use don set.
Note that this likely occurred during the inception phase of the series (late 2016 to early 2017). The Tardigrades game unveiled its human-scale tardigrade in July 2017. Kurtzman and company literally could not have seen the developers work when deciding to revamp the Tardigrade and shoot scenes that are based around its final iteration which appear in the Discovery trailer which released near concurrently to the game's trailer. That content was not yet public.
PS. the Tardigrade from the Tardigrade game is already a derivative of the guild navigator from Dune (crossed with a sandworm, average the two and a Tardigrade is what you get. Note the spice saturation color scheme too.) Anas pulled audio from the 1984 movie from one of his trailers and made a close facsimile of the actress who played Irulan Corrino for that to play over. He's been heavily inspired by Frank Herbert's work (or at least one reinterpretation of it) so any comparison that includes him and Dune is redundant to saying that the DSC Tardigrade was inspired by Dune alone (also much more likely considering the relative exposure and ease of search.) Ergo: it's meaningless.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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This guys is a Discovery troll with no connection to any legitimate Star Trek production. He is the former director of Axanar and editor to Prelude (fancy leaving that out).
"Discovery Troll"? He is part of the Collider review crew. They don't get more "pro-TRIBBLE" then that.
The reason the Axanar crew asked him to direct was probably because of his long history with Star Trek (and he was probably cheaper than other big names).
Burnett directed Free Enterprise and the short film The Sacred Fire. He has also edited over 10 feature films, and worked as a Star Trek consultant for Viacom Interactive and Paramount Parks' Star Trek: The Experience located at the Las Vegas Hilton.
Burnett's own production company, Ludovico Technique LLC has worked on the DVD Special Editions for Oscar-winning The Usual Suspects, Valley Girl, Superman Returns, Spider-Man, X-Men 1.5, X2, and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Burnett has twice been a guest of honor at the science, science fiction, and fantasy convention, CONvergence. Most recently, he edited, wrote and produced all the special features for Blu-ray release of Star Trek: The Next Generation Compete Series box set released on June 7, 2016; he also contributed to the Blu-ray of all four seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise, with season four being released on April 1, 2014.
Per an Alex Kurtzman panel interview reported on Trekmovie, they abandoned the original inception of the Tardigrade after it became apparent that a Tardigrade officer couldn't be realized through practical effects. This account has been bastardized in the tweet you've quoted.
Nothing is bastardized. Burnett claims to have seen the original script. That is where he is coming from.
Note that this likely occurred during the inception phase of the series (late 2016 to early/mid 2017). The Tardigrades game unveiled its human-scale tardigrade mid July 2017. Kurtzman and company literally could not have seen the developers work when deciding to revamp the Tardigrade and shoot scenes that are based around its final iteration which appear in the Discovery trailer which released near concurrently. That content was not yet public.
The human sized tartigrade was part of the initial greenlight release in 2014. The game creator has shared most of his content through social media links to his blogs.
Burnett claims that the changes are so drastic from the original format that it is plausible that someone took ideas from Tartigrades. That is all that is being claimed. If you have some evidence that Burnett has not seen the original script (or you can post excerpts of the script to compare to) then do so. Otherwise, YOU are full of BS.
PS. the Tardigrade from the Tardigrade game is already a derivative of the guild navigator from dune
You are talking about functionality. Sure. They perform the same function. Star Trek: Discovery did not call their beastie a "guild navigator". They called it a "tartigrade" and then modeled it after the microscoping being of the same name. Just like the game creator did. The question, of course, is "did they do this independently, or did someone writing for Star Trek: Discovery get "inspired" by an unfinished game with an obscure premise"?
I doubt that question will ever be answered, regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.
Its pretty clear that its a case of parallel development. A large corporation that wouldn't even know this Indie Developer exists...
There's really no basis here.
As much as I love watching a civil debate... can we please stop spreading this around like its gonna kill Discovery? Its not, and frankly I'd sooner side with the thing that was actually in production and has produced a product rather than something that's not even given anything more than teasers.
As much as I love watching a civil debate... can we please stop spreading this around like its gonna kill Discovery? Its not, and frankly I'd sooner side with the thing that was actually in production and has produced a product rather than something that's not even given anything more than teasers.
Alex Kurtzman does not need help to kill Star Trek: Discovery. I'm sure he is capable of doing that all on his own.
The human sized tartigrade was part of the initial greenlight release in 2014. The game creator has shared most of his content through social media links to his blogs.
No he absolutely did not. For reference: here's his development thread. Link
Warning, some of this stuff is NSFW so browse with caution. Human sized tardigrades first appear on page 29. Date: July 12th, 2017 (cross post with the youtube trailer.) Here's the original trailer for steam: Link
Description:
"In our understanding of time, it is the year 20,000 BC where civilizations are about to discover galactic travel through the latest technology of their time. Earth was different back then. The deserts of south Egypt and Ethiopia are green and full of advanced technology.
Carter is a botanist at the space station Marsi-3 orbiting Jupiter. Along with his girlfriend Alex, and your guidance, they might be able to witness their civilization shifting into a higher type."
The Tardigrades involvement with that shift was held as a secret for a very long time (it's a culmination of the lead character arc and probably a point for investigation in the adventure.) There is a comic posted in 2016 including some Tardigrades, but this is framed a flash-back to a lecture describing ordinary (ie. microscopic) tardigrades. The author did not lead with large tardigrades, at all (just the logo and an evolving story set between space and ancient sci-fi Egypt) and didn't unveil them (as far as I've been able to verify) until it was too late for CBS to plausibly copy his game.
Burnett claims that the changes are so drastic from the original format that it is plausible that someone took ideas from Tartigrades.
You mean making the tardigrade more animal like? How is this in any way drastic (which is not how Kurtzman, the primary source, described it. It was a big change but it more closely resembled the animal's natural state) and demanding of an second explanation that ignores the basics, such as when macroscopic Tardigrades first appeared on the tardigrade game's PR. Instead, you favor the assertion (taken completely uncritically) of someone unrelated to the DSC production who claims to have insider info, despite being the producer of Axanar (you're gaslighting on this point.) Even if he does have material from the show (unlikely, being the producer of Axanar), his behavior on twitter does not make him a reliable source.
Rest not quoted, discussion needs to remain more level.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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No he absolutely did not. For reference: here's his development thread.
It's the name of his game and it's the d@mn logo.
Now, I will grant you that he did not name the game Tartigrades until 2015, but he clearly explains why:
After a lot of thinking and a massive amount of advice, research and opinions, there is no escape from going through one of the hardest steps for me, a name change for my little baby.
I shall call him:
Tardigrades, waterbears, moss piglets... call them whatever you like. For me, they are the indestructible. Despite their little size of about 0.012in, they can survive temperatures from just above absolute zero up to above the boiling point of water. They can also survive extreme conditions of radiation and the vacuum of space. They can go without food or water for more than 10 years. Who else can travel space like Tardigrades?
The issue is, I cannot find WHO he talked to in 2015 about what he should call his game. The implication is that he divulged plot information, and that plot information got out. As a result of the impending lawsuit, I doubt the creator is going to divulge that information.
You mean making the tardigrade more animal like? How is this in any way drastic (which is not how Kurtzman, the primary source, described it. It was a big change but it more closely resembled the animal's natural state) and demanding of an second explanation that ignores the basics, such as when macroscopic Tardigrades first appeared on the tardigrade game's PR.
I don't know how drastic the change is. I have not seen the original script. I don't think you have either, but if you have proof, feel free to correct my assumption. I'm not going to trust Kurtzman when it comes to being honest about characters. He actually does have a history of misdirection with regards to characters, unlike Burnett.
Instead, you favor the assertion (taken completely uncritically) of someone unrelated to the DSC production who claims to have insider info, despite being the producer of Axanar (you're gaslighting on this point.) Even if he does have material from the show (unlikely, being the producer of Axanar), his behavior on twitter does not make him a reliable source.
I am surprised one of the Collider crew was so anti-Star Trek: Discovery. I see you conveniently ignored his pro-TRIBBLE tweets, until he became disillusioned with the show. I guess that does not matter.
I guess he is a heretic now. We have to shun him and anything he says.
As for Axenar, you seem to have confused Robert Meyer Burnett with Alec Peters. The majority of the crew of Axenar wanted to make a fan movie, one that did not turn a profit. Peters wanted to make money.
Robert Meyer Burnett has a long history in the industry and with Star Trek. Burnett is well-known in the circles he talks about. If he was lying someone would have pointed it out and Burnett's career (and social standing) would suffer. If someone calls him out, then I will revise my position.
You cannot disprove what he said; all you can do is smear him because you don't like what he says. Even when what he says is not proof of anything.
It's irritating that Star Trek: Discovery detractors are hailing this as "proof" that the writers of TRIBBLE are creatively bankrupt (I mean, you tell that just from the writing). It's also sad that TRIBBLE defenders are rabidly denying anything that might taint the show, to the point of attacking the creator of Tartigrades.
In 2014, Anas Abdin, got his game Epoch into Steam Greenlight. Abdin is a resident of the United Kingdom who spends most of his time taking care of his disabled parents and holding a full time job. This is the reason his game, a side hobby rather than a full-time job, has taken so long. In 2015, after much consultation, he changed the name of the game to Tartigrades.
According to an interview with Rock Paper Shotgun (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/11/08/a-tale-of-two-tardigrades/), Abdin was extremely upset by the similarities between Tartigrades and Star Trek: Discovery. “I did not touch my computer at all,” says Abdin. “I was too scared to log on my email or any other social media outlet. I felt some lawyer is going to call me any moment telling me I cannot continue developing Tardigrades”.
“My ideal outcome,” concludes Abdin, “is to get addressed by the producers and [know that they’ll] let me be, to finish my project.”
According to an email Abdin sent to YouTuber Doomcock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByduvAexiKI
Abdin was contacted via email by CBS legal after his interview with Rock Paper Shotgun. Abdin sent a reply directing CBS legal to his lawyers, but they appeared reluctant to do so. Eventually, Abdin was able to get into a Skype call so that CBS could deliver terms. According to Abdin, CBS would no longer use the tartigrade character and they would not sue him for plagiarism. However, Abdin states that CBS refused to follow up on the call and now he feels compelled to go forward with legal proceedings to protect his work.
It seems to me this could all have been avoided if CBS just followed through on providing Abdin with legal documents stating "we will not sue for plagiarism". As far as I can tell, that is all the game's creator wants, regardless of the spin others put on it. He is not trying to destroy TRIBBLE. He is not trying to "get them moneys". He just wants an assurance that CBS's rabid legal team wont chew his genitals off if he tries to make money from his game.
Comments
We got ourselves a ghost.
Popcorn?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Here's one better:
After months of trying to contact CBS the developer ultimately reaches a dead end. So, he reaches out to sympathetic youtube pundits who've given him favorable coverage (it fits their narrative). Complete with details about an alleged conversation (which at least one pundit claims to have, BTW, and he probably didn't get it from CBS) these guys make the case with the declaration that this isn't going away (its a big deal) with the conflict stated to be little guy (who says he's filing suit) to unsympathetic corporation (with characterization from the alleged conversation to boot.) Ie. calls to mob action.
Whether or not the case was filed, and what its prospects are if so, is immaterial. The goal is to rile up a significant part of the community to force a PR issue which CBS acknowledges and capitulates to (irrespective of the details of the case, what these guys are hoping for is corporate reflex action) thus giving a black eye to the show and vindication for an indie dev who, quite factually speaking [see. key dates], could have had little to do with the development of Discovery. That or it simply hangs over the production as a continual detractor (hey, remember when they stole that thing. Ha ha, yes. Our opinions are justified.)
Unless these guys come up with documents that can be independently corroborated, I wouldn't take it on faith (especially in light of disingenuous reporting from the start) that this most recent round of blogging-on-blogging is in fact on the level (which goes without saying but it's popcorn time so...)
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Well, prob need more than one but it's a start.
My character Tsin'xing
He actually put the game on Steam Greenlight in 2014
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
My character Tsin'xing
Yup, and he's continued to work on it since. Remember that a Steam Greenlight requires only a concept for the game, not a completed work, to be accepted. From there, they received some support to help eventually bring that game to the marketplace.
Tardigrades has yet to be released.
And as a reminder, the first unveiling of large Tardigrades and their role in the game was July 12th, 2017 (date verified through cross posts from his dev thread); well into Discovery's production and almost certainly after Tardigrade scenes were not only conceived but filmed for Discovery. The Tardigrades game was originally promoted through generic sci-fi interiors and some character art (a portion of which you've seen.) At the time Discovery was conceived, the game had evolved into a fairly derivative mash-up between Stargate and Dune with unproven character dynamics (there's almost no dialog available from the game) and little to offer any production looking for inspiration. That is, unless you assume (because madness) that a CBS Star Trek production would have any trouble casting a few actors or designing ship interiors and for whatever reason didn't just say "let's have a few TOS characters with some ship hallways like they had in SG-1" (much more immediately available) and instead plagiarized a game that could be described on those same terms (because madness.)
#ContextIsForKings
And note that because of this issue the developer is getting a lot more attention for the project. I don't think he's likely to step into the middle and say "You know what guys, this isn't a big deal" like I would if ever someone noticed how close the details are for SSF season 1 and DSC season 1. 4 characters in common? Bah, I've got 8 including personality and character dynamics [all absent from Tardigrades comparisons] with one species design (Conclave mirrors DSC Klingons) a major technological innovation (instantaneous travel, down to the level of individuals) and three major plot points (confrontation with a bomb set to commit genocide that ends in reconciliation, fall of the self-serving lead of a noble Klingon house starting with the letters Ko, and dramatic reveal that a human tactical officer is actually a Klingon operator with major political connections and personal relationship to another one of the lead characters.)
And that just goes to show how common convergent evolution can be while working from a given cultural reference point (the sci-fi genre as it is now) and objective set (compelling sci-fi drama in that cultural context.) It's a mark of our shared humanity and illuminating to the process of creative writing. Learn from it, and if so desired take pride in the fact that you (in some carefully chosen respects) were able to meet a separate professional production.
Plagiarism? If there's direct evidence make a point but it takes a lot more than what's being supplied to substantiate the argument.
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lol
Soo...
You are probably asking... "who the h3ll is Robert Meyer Burnett"? Well, by his admission (https://www.acast.com/wordballooncomicbookspodcast/star-trek-discovery-mid-season-review-with-trekspert-robert-meyer-burnett timestamp 18:25) he is someone who has read all of Brian Fuller's original script for Star Trek: Discovery. He is also one of the people at Collider doing reviews on TRIBBLE. Looking at his history within the industry, I feel he is legitimate. His claims would be easy to disprove and he would lose considerable standing within the Star Trek community (if not his employment) if he was lying.
Is this proof? No, but it is interesting.
This guys is a Discovery troll with no connection to any Star Trek series. He is the former director of Axanar (quote: "as synonymous with the AXANAR project as Alec Peters himself") and editor to Prelude to Axanar (fancy leaving that out...
Per an Alex Kurtzman panel interview reported on Trekmovie, they abandoned the original inception of the Tardigrade after it became apparent that a Tardigrade officer couldn't be realized through practical effects or (presumably) cost effective animation. This account has been bastardized in the tweet you've quoted.
Direct source:
https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/08/paleyfest-more-canon-characters-coming-to-star-trek-discovery-tardigrade-was-bridge-officer/
Note that this likely occurred during the inception phase of the series (late 2016 to early 2017). The Tardigrades game unveiled its human-scale tardigrade in July 2017. Kurtzman and company literally could not have seen the developers work when deciding to revamp the Tardigrade and shoot scenes that are based around its final iteration which appear in the Discovery trailer which released near concurrently to the game's trailer. That content was not yet public.
PS. the Tardigrade from the Tardigrade game is already a derivative of the guild navigator from Dune (crossed with a sandworm, average the two and a Tardigrade is what you get. Note the spice saturation color scheme too.) Anas pulled audio from the 1984 movie from one of his trailers and made a close facsimile of the actress who played Irulan Corrino for that to play over. He's been heavily inspired by Frank Herbert's work (or at least one reinterpretation of it) so any comparison that includes him and Dune is redundant to saying that the DSC Tardigrade was inspired by Dune alone (also much more likely considering the relative exposure and ease of search.) Ergo: it's meaningless.
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The reason the Axanar crew asked him to direct was probably because of his long history with Star Trek (and he was probably cheaper than other big names). Nothing is bastardized. Burnett claims to have seen the original script. That is where he is coming from. The human sized tartigrade was part of the initial greenlight release in 2014. The game creator has shared most of his content through social media links to his blogs. Burnett claims that the changes are so drastic from the original format that it is plausible that someone took ideas from Tartigrades. That is all that is being claimed. If you have some evidence that Burnett has not seen the original script (or you can post excerpts of the script to compare to) then do so. Otherwise, YOU are full of BS.
You are talking about functionality. Sure. They perform the same function. Star Trek: Discovery did not call their beastie a "guild navigator". They called it a "tartigrade" and then modeled it after the microscoping being of the same name. Just like the game creator did. The question, of course, is "did they do this independently, or did someone writing for Star Trek: Discovery get "inspired" by an unfinished game with an obscure premise"?
I doubt that question will ever be answered, regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.
There's really no basis here.
As much as I love watching a civil debate... can we please stop spreading this around like its gonna kill Discovery? Its not, and frankly I'd sooner side with the thing that was actually in production and has produced a product rather than something that's not even given anything more than teasers.
Link
Warning, some of this stuff is NSFW so browse with caution. Human sized tardigrades first appear on page 29. Date: July 12th, 2017 (cross post with the youtube trailer.) Here's the original trailer for steam:
Link
Description:
Carter is a botanist at the space station Marsi-3 orbiting Jupiter. Along with his girlfriend Alex, and your guidance, they might be able to witness their civilization shifting into a higher type."
The Tardigrades involvement with that shift was held as a secret for a very long time (it's a culmination of the lead character arc and probably a point for investigation in the adventure.) There is a comic posted in 2016 including some Tardigrades, but this is framed a flash-back to a lecture describing ordinary (ie. microscopic) tardigrades. The author did not lead with large tardigrades, at all (just the logo and an evolving story set between space and ancient sci-fi Egypt) and didn't unveil them (as far as I've been able to verify) until it was too late for CBS to plausibly copy his game.
You mean making the tardigrade more animal like? How is this in any way drastic (which is not how Kurtzman, the primary source, described it. It was a big change but it more closely resembled the animal's natural state) and demanding of an second explanation that ignores the basics, such as when macroscopic Tardigrades first appeared on the tardigrade game's PR. Instead, you favor the assertion (taken completely uncritically) of someone unrelated to the DSC production who claims to have insider info, despite being the producer of Axanar (you're gaslighting on this point.) Even if he does have material from the show (unlikely, being the producer of Axanar), his behavior on twitter does not make him a reliable source.
Spoiler tag to spare others.
Rest not quoted, discussion needs to remain more level.
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NEXT!
Some fans have perfectly good reasons for hating parts or all of Discovery, but calling it the Battlefield Earth of Star Trek is going too far.
Now, I will grant you that he did not name the game Tartigrades until 2015, but he clearly explains why:
The issue is, I cannot find WHO he talked to in 2015 about what he should call his game. The implication is that he divulged plot information, and that plot information got out. As a result of the impending lawsuit, I doubt the creator is going to divulge that information.
I don't know how drastic the change is. I have not seen the original script. I don't think you have either, but if you have proof, feel free to correct my assumption. I'm not going to trust Kurtzman when it comes to being honest about characters. He actually does have a history of misdirection with regards to characters, unlike Burnett.
I am surprised one of the Collider crew was so anti-Star Trek: Discovery. I see you conveniently ignored his pro-TRIBBLE tweets, until he became disillusioned with the show. I guess that does not matter.
I guess he is a heretic now. We have to shun him and anything he says.
As for Axenar, you seem to have confused Robert Meyer Burnett with Alec Peters. The majority of the crew of Axenar wanted to make a fan movie, one that did not turn a profit. Peters wanted to make money.
Robert Meyer Burnett has a long history in the industry and with Star Trek. Burnett is well-known in the circles he talks about. If he was lying someone would have pointed it out and Burnett's career (and social standing) would suffer. If someone calls him out, then I will revise my position.
You cannot disprove what he said; all you can do is smear him because you don't like what he says. Even when what he says is not proof of anything.
In 2014, Anas Abdin, got his game Epoch into Steam Greenlight. Abdin is a resident of the United Kingdom who spends most of his time taking care of his disabled parents and holding a full time job. This is the reason his game, a side hobby rather than a full-time job, has taken so long. In 2015, after much consultation, he changed the name of the game to Tartigrades.
According to an interview with Rock Paper Shotgun (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/11/08/a-tale-of-two-tardigrades/), Abdin was extremely upset by the similarities between Tartigrades and Star Trek: Discovery. “I did not touch my computer at all,” says Abdin. “I was too scared to log on my email or any other social media outlet. I felt some lawyer is going to call me any moment telling me I cannot continue developing Tardigrades”.
“My ideal outcome,” concludes Abdin, “is to get addressed by the producers and [know that they’ll] let me be, to finish my project.”
According to an email Abdin sent to YouTuber Doomcock:
Abdin was contacted via email by CBS legal after his interview with Rock Paper Shotgun. Abdin sent a reply directing CBS legal to his lawyers, but they appeared reluctant to do so. Eventually, Abdin was able to get into a Skype call so that CBS could deliver terms. According to Abdin, CBS would no longer use the tartigrade character and they would not sue him for plagiarism. However, Abdin states that CBS refused to follow up on the call and now he feels compelled to go forward with legal proceedings to protect his work.
It seems to me this could all have been avoided if CBS just followed through on providing Abdin with legal documents stating "we will not sue for plagiarism". As far as I can tell, that is all the game's creator wants, regardless of the spin others put on it. He is not trying to destroy TRIBBLE. He is not trying to "get them moneys". He just wants an assurance that CBS's rabid legal team wont chew his genitals off if he tries to make money from his game.