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Daily speed runs are horrible

silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User
Because daily random dungeons are a thing, and they include dungeons below the level of the player, speed runs are now the norm. Dungeons are no longer fun at all. Now new players are being rushed through and screamed at in dungeons that are appropriate to their own level. No one has time to explore for fear of being voted out. Something has to be done to change this dynamic so dungeons will be fun again, especially for new players. I would like to suggest that player item and skills be brought down to the level of the dungeon. Dropping player level is not nearly enough. Unless all players can be put on truly equal footing in dungeons there will never be the chance for low-level players to truly enjoy them.
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Comments

  • time2011time2011 Posts: 122Member Arc User
    then just run with friends/guilds/alliance if you don't want to deal with rushers. rq is lame to begin with but not much can be done about it now
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    edited March 8

    Personally started some new characters recently and often enough the groups they get into are "at level" (full group of LLC's). It's funny though because when the HLC's queue the rest of the group is essentially comprised of LLC's as well so on one end carrying others on HLC's, then when on the other end getting grouped with at level characters and struggling...

    At least from personal experiences getting into an at level group occurs often enough if not more than getting into a group where the others are higher level. Would love to carry others when playing on HLC's (not the negative players that simply want others to carry them) and be carried by others when playing on LLC's LoL

    What makes it even worse is when a character(s) sit at the first campfire and the character you are on is at level and every set of mobs pounds on you, if you can clear any at all...

    As previously mentioned in another thread:

    What is stopping experienced players from pre-grouping and speed running dungeons?
    What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

    Choice...

    A lot of players simply solo RQ and when they get results they don't like they complain even though they have the power to shape their own RQ experience... it takes a "small" bit of effort to save yourself from the headache of letting the system form the group.

    What is happening is a conflict of interest and no particular "group" wanting to be the bigger person and remove themselves from the conflict. Pre-grouping with like minded/equipped players will help secure your interests in regard to RQ's, if you don't believe it, try it for yourself.

    - LLP's pre-grouping will prevent HLP's from getting into the group so they can explore/get an at level experience.
    - HLP's pre-grouping will prevent LLP's from getting into the group so that they can speed run/complete higher level content without being slowed down or struggling.
    - Pre-grouping with a group that will vote leave/stay in IG will ensure that particular vote passes.
    - etc.

    Before RQ's queue times for various content was horrible because HLP's were farming the easiest content via private queue...

    If either "type" pre-grouped essentially no changes would be necessary to try and force either to do what the other wants...

    Remove yourself from the conflict.
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    It is put on BOTH types of players, the experienced players were even mentioned first seeing as how they are more equipped to do so. BOTH play their role in the conflict.

    How do players get to know others in game? They interact with them. If players don't want to interact with other why would they join group content?

    Just like how you came here on the forums and made a post you can make a post inviting other new players for group content and interact with them in-game.

    Just like how you read the response, other newer players have the capability to join the forums to read it as well.

    You just proved a point being that newer players have tools to reach out to other new players to help them avoid conflict...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    A number of the players that offered "warnings" were simply trying to preserve getting AD from private queues which killed queue times for other content at the same time. It's the truth all day long.

    Cloak Tower at times used to take 15+ minutes to pop, now it pops much faster due to RQ's.

    Being a new player is only an "excuse" for so long, sooner or later interacting with others to build contacts will be a must for particular aspects of the game. There are Guilds that take in newer players and the sooner they join one the sooner they can build contacts...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User

    It is put on BOTH types of players, the experienced players were even mentioned first seeing as how they are more equipped to do so. BOTH play their role in the conflict.

    How do players get to know others in game? They interact with them. If players don't want to interact with other why would they join group content?

    Just like how you came here on the forums and made a post you can make a post inviting other new players for group content and interact with them in-game.

    Just like how you read the response, other newer players have the capability to join the forums to read it as well.

    You just proved a point being that newer players have tools to reach out to other new players to help them avoid conflict...

    You are passing judgement on others based on your own expectations. How does one make friends in a game where you don't know anyone? Would you be kind enough to write a tutorial so new players can find and use it?

    As for experienced players helping new ones; LOL! People are not going to help anyone else unless they get something out of it that is more valuable than the reward already being given. Even then, high level players probably won't be willing to help. I have literally tried asking for help only to be told to just catch up.

    The devs need to either remove AD from the equation altogether, only group people who are actually the same level, or drop everyone to the same level, gear score, and abilities.
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User

    A number of the players that offered "warnings" were simply trying to preserve getting AD from private queues which killed queue times for other content at the same time. It's the truth all day long.

    Cloak Tower at times used to take 15+ minutes to pop, now it pops much faster due to RQ's.

    Being a new player is only an "excuse" for so long, sooner or later interacting with others to build contacts will be a must for particular aspects of the game. There are Guilds that take in newer players and the sooner they join one the sooner they can build contacts...

    It is interesting that you have chosen the Cloak Tower as your example. This is a level twelve dungeon that can be reached in only a few hours. In your model new players would have to have made enough friends of the same level who are willing to run this dungeon with them. This concept beggars belief.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    edited March 8
    Players are prompted to link their game account with an Arc account repeatedly on console until they do which clearly encourages players to explore the Arc website and players on PC have multiple tabs clearly visible on the launcher "News" "Forums" "Support" "Release Notes" so yes, new players have very little excuse not to explore their options.

    On the forums there is a section named "Player Corner" hmmm...

    How many other characters do you see running around Blacklake District and Tower District, more than 2 right? That's enough to run Cloak Tower at level 12...

    The other lower level content took just as much time if not more than Cloak Tower before RQ's were introduced. New players can queue for random skirmishes starting at level 5. See those players that the system groups you with? Contact them in regard to future adventures, if they decline so what there are others out there.
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • cerberusxllcerberusxll Posts: 369Member Arc User
    I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

    yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

    and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    edited March 8
    @ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts :)

    What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

    Chat isn't required to form a group...

    Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat? :)

    Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User
    edited March 8

    I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

    yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

    and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.

    I AM blaming the devs. In fact, you were the inspiration for this post. It's not the players' fault, and that's what I am trying to say here. This is a broken system and it needs to be changed.
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User

    @ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts :)

    What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

    Chat isn't required to form a group...

    Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat? :)

    Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...
    YES! Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly. You are 100% correct.
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User

    I was the one who did the tos run with you earlier and I'm going to tell you now what I told you then. blame the developers for introducing the system as it is, not the players for making the most of it.

    yes, I can understand it's frustrating, but this whole mess was created by the people who put the system into place, not those who are using it for their own gain.

    and for the record, it wasn't me that ran ahead in our run, it was the SW that quit when you got left behind. I came back and showed you the way. not all lvl 70's don't give a HAMSTER.

    And thank you so much for coming back for me, BTW. I know that you only wanted to get through, get your AD and move on, but you took the time to help and that is rare in this game.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Posts: 488Member Arc User

    Because daily random dungeons are a thing, and they include dungeons below the level of the player, speed runs are now the norm. Dungeons are no longer fun at all. Now new players are being rushed through and screamed at in dungeons that are appropriate to their own level. No one has time to explore for fear of being voted out. Something has to be done to change this dynamic so dungeons will be fun again, especially for new players. I would like to suggest that player item and skills be brought down to the level of the dungeon. Dropping player level is not nearly enough. Unless all players can be put on truly equal footing in dungeons there will never be the chance for low-level players to truly enjoy them.

    This is an actual solution... Thanks for that

    @trinity706#8838 You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again

    "Your End" has taken the controversial position that RQ is hunky-dory and all complaints are unfair

    You've said it... no need to repeat it over and over a hundred different ways

  • b4t1b4tb4t1b4t Posts: 53Member Arc User
    What I feel is that leveling dungeons are not meant for the level 70 players to start with. I will state first hand that I run thru them each day my self and why? Because for one I am 70 and for 2 they bore me like you have no idea. I even some times dont really want to but I think guild does need the shards so I might as well. Fact is dev knew they could not remove the AD from leveling dungeons because if they did that those level 70 players that do not yet have FBI MSP or even 12K item level would not be able to get any AD. So they had no choice but to do this. I can understand why they decided this but I really feel they should try hard to find a different work around.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Posts: 565Member Arc User
    edited March 8

    You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again

    You are quite incorrect, thank you for the mention though. No need to bring your personal feelings about posts that don't repeatedly bash Cryptic that you disagree with into this topic.

    Not everyone hates/dislikes the game at each and every turn and continually subjects themselves to self inflicted issues while ignoring reasonable courses of action.

    Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly.

    Where was any of that stated?

    Your frustration with the game is seemingly spilling over into your responses to responses that are providing legitimate courses of action to help prevent conflict of interest. Newer players are not as helpless as you and many others try and make them out to be.

    There are Guilds recruiting in Protector's Enclave pretty much all the time. There's a menu to contact officers of Guilds that are recruiting, there are Guilds recruiting here on the forums, utilize your options...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
    Community Project: Neverwinter "RNG" Database

    Suggestions: Allow Guilds More Administrative Options \/\/ "Auto" Identify Items/"Auto-Load"/Refinement Sorting+ (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen \/\/ Character - "Legacy" Items
  • littleknightess#7448 littleknightess Posts: 1Member Arc User
    I don't run random queues as a newbie Oathbound Paladin so my exposure to these kind of situations are quite low (I only run dungeons and skirmishes according to the story map... enjoying the game's storytelling). From what I've experienced, dungeon runs are easy to start because of the system in place but those level-gated skirmishes are nigh impossible to start due to low to nonexistent queue.

    Before, whenever dungeon queue popped for me, I usually had to try my best to catch up to speedsters which was quite hard, especially when they were already so fast without using their Shift key (yep, good luck catching up to Great Weapon Fighter). I don't hope to learn anything around random people that kept quiet the whole time, so I followed them until the end of the dungeon. But instead of leaving through the portal, I ran back and explored the whole dungeons (except for a pirate themed dungeon since there is no way to get out from the boss' ship).

    I was lucky that no one complained about my speed but I do still wanted to at least land a hit on the bosses before my party members melts through them.

    So... instead of asking people to slow down for my sake, I ran some searches online and started to slot some cheap runes (or was it enchantment? I am still quite clueless about the system) that gave me move speed, into gears that have move speed on them.

    Nowadays I can catch up to most if not all of them. Then again, I rarely queue, so... eh I don't really have much of an opinion on the matter. On one hand, I am happy that I can finish my dungeon story quests without long waiting time unlike skirmishes (thankfully my class allows me to solo them, up to Aberrant Assault). On the other, I can see that most players are just doing it for their daily income and they don't really care about anything else but themselves.


    Oh, outside group activities, I get to do my quests like a speedster as result. So... yay?
  • flippy#8481 flippy Posts: 49Member Arc User
    just remember

    by definition

    daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

    now wonder why the developers wish this upon us
  • ilithynilithyn Posts: 206Member Arc User

    @ilithyn was waiting for someone to mention chat lockout for new accounts :)

    What is stopping newer players from pre-grouping and exploring dungeons? (highlight another character, open sub-menu, invite)

    Chat isn't required to form a group...

    Does the chat lockout apply to Guild/Alliance chat? :)

    Over and over players blame the game while ignoring the tools/options right there in front of them...

    Yes it locks out ALL chats, including party, guild and alliance. Tells too. You can't chat in ANY channel until it's unlocked. The guide only claims that it's zone, say, trade, LGF, but past experience has proven that it is every single channel that's locked until you complete the necessary content.
    Now I agree that this may be a bug, but it's a bug that's been around since the system was implemented in 2016 so I think we can assume by now that even if it isn't wai it won't ever be fixed.


    As for partying.
    So... spamming random people with team invites is okay with you? To me that would feel like harassment and was one of the reasons I left WoW behind.
    Also, working WITHIN a group without being able to talk is damn hard, if you can do it bully for you mate, but not everyone can. And try figuring out a new dungeon, a whole new game, new bosses, new damn everything but not being able to communicate with your team mates.
    So... how do you suggest they go about that wihtout any kindn of ability
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User
    Some solutions to the AD dilemma would be to give AD to certain professions in a straight-forward manner, give AD for

    You are just arguing for the sake of arguing again

    You are quite incorrect, thank you for the mention though. No need to bring your personal feelings about posts that don't repeatedly bash Cryptic that you disagree with into this topic.

    Not everyone hates/dislikes the game at each and every turn and continually subjects themselves to self inflicted issues while ignoring reasonable courses of action.

    Every new player has a guild, every new player understands the game completely. It is entirely their own fault and they should just quit because they suck so badly.

    Where was any of that stated?

    Your frustration with the game is seemingly spilling over into your responses to responses that are providing legitimate courses of action to help prevent conflict of interest. Newer players are not as helpless as you and many others try and make them out to be.

    There are Guilds recruiting in Protector's Enclave pretty much all the time. There's a menu to contact officers of Guilds that are recruiting, there are Guilds recruiting here on the forums, utilize your options...
    Your "reasonable" courses of action all involve things that new players do have knowledge of/access to. So your "solutions" are worthless and can be discarded as such. You are indeed arguing for the sake of doing so.
  • silmefeawensilmefeawen Posts: 13Member Arc User

    just remember

    by definition

    daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

    now wonder why the developers wish this upon us

    The obvious answer is that they don't care as long as they make bank.
  • flippy#8481 flippy Posts: 49Member Arc User

    just remember

    by definition

    daily speed runs are doing exactly what the developers have intended

    now wonder why the developers wish this upon us

    The obvious answer is that they don't care as long as they make bank.
    so you agree

    it ain't a gonna change

  • mornaurmornaur Posts: 2Member Arc User
    Which is why I carry thre sets of gear, for lvl 2- to 60, so when the random lvling pops, I can use lvl appropiate gear, and have a "challene" in the instance.
  • rafaeldarafaelda Posts: 340Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    yep i usually only run randon leveling queue with guildies, because i've done some speed runs, and i really feel bad for the leveling players

    we warned about that but they released this way, i try to speed the players but not run much ahead, anyway i'm not a hardcore player so i cant be the "base" for this stuff

    would be really nice if overleveled players where set away from fair leveled players in the queue, but i dont think they will work on that now...
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Posts: 140Member Arc User
    edited March 8
    I mentioned in an other forum, but as a 16k, RQ is still not acceptable. I'm kind of glad that leveling up got so fast (making rAD for me), but I still have to run random leveling dungeons for the SH quest, so still kinda forced if I want to help my guild.

    On the speedrunning side, it's not just that I want to get through fast, I don't even want to be there at all! The only fun I'm having is knocking down the door on the 2. boss at CT, disintegrating him and then running in to see the cutscene closing to a green vaporising dust cloud. And that gets boring fast too. Otherwise I just burning everyone up in one-shot, because I can and rADwise I should. I could've run eToS in 7 mins for 6-10k rAD (or TONG in 20 min for at least 3-5 times much reward), so to at least 'worth' to be there, I should get it done in like 4-5 mins. That lets zero place for 'fun' because I have to push everyone forward. You know, because I want to have fun too, in other places.

    The problem is that low level characters got so used to being useless in those runs that it just generated a vast afk abusers and if you are being slow, you might get accused of doing the light version of it (when they are not like full afk, but just intendedly go behind so they don't have to deal with anything).

    In short, RQ generates way too much frustration to almost everyone involved.
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