usually just some GWF with Trans Lightning whose job doesn't even require anything special other than moving from point a to point b while holding at-will only and sometimes engaging with an encounter for the sake of amusement. And if you ask the same GWF to explain the class to you, you may expect only "uhhhhh" since that GWF just copy/pasted someone else and learned the rotation and what to do, and when the things change they're the ones to flip out the most.
Posts are just getting really silly now...
No they are not...
I seen many bad GWF do exactly what he wrote and when a I beat them as a13K IL CW, I end up getting tells saying I cheated and such. The funny thing is I respond stating, how did I cheat when I'm giving you a 20% boost in your damage instead of being selfish DPS. That usually send them over the edge once they learned they got beat by a Hybrid buffing CW DPS and not a full on CW DPS. I usually see additional tells with profanity and such as well as I'm reporting you for cheating, etc... I am in no way cheating as I simply run a standard MoF DPS loadout but instead of slotting Chilling Presence I run Swath of Destruction.
It is not my fault that a 16K+ GWF has no idea how to play their class.
It is the community that wants fast runs and enjoy imbalanced groups.
*applause* Type that again *applause*
Though it is these players formed imbalanced group compositions that help shine the light on class imbalances. After the 2 DC changes, the 2 Tank composition will probably be under the magnifying lens (if not already).
It is the community that wants fast runs and enjoy imbalanced groups.
A few ways to resolve this is to remove the ability of private Q which would take out the 2nd tank and 2nd DC and encourage picking up a SW or a CW even if they have to play as buffers over pure DPS.
Not so sure about this one.
Players still need the option to compose a group how they want, whether it is "optimal" or not, also if players want to bring in a character that is 1k too low for normal ilvl requirements they still could.
After the 2 DC changes and possibly the 2 Tank changes the idea of removing the private queue system may not be necessary.
Oh how taking down GWF's in DPS can bring about such pleasure
Personally get things like "I wasn't trying", "I'm lagging" "Let's run FBI/MSVA". When they suggest other content, personally the response is "let's two man it and make a bet who does more DPS" and they pretty ALL decline because without a tank they can't just stand there and DPS
A number of them aren't humble while playing a class that by design has an innate advantage in DPS output (doesn't always work out for them though it's still there).
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
The posts are silly, or rather sad, due to how silly, or rather sad, the game balance is currently for the end-game content. It's just appropriate way to describe it to say the least.
I find it silly how easy it is to just randomly press each encounter as a GWF with trans lightning ench and believe that you're profoundly skilled player of the game. This sort of mentality is cancerous. And evident in ... well, everywhere. This happened back in MOD3, too. Always had to deal with a crazy GWF who rushes with a sword into the battle, chasing the paingiver.... Holy HAMSTER, that's annoying.
Some personal experience which might shed some light to people :
- After returning to the guild not so long time ago and got into a 12+ r dung for some AD gathering I got people telling me "I didn't know that Wizard has a speed boost like that".
- Another comment I received was "The best way to play the Wizards is to delete them".
It is funny to hear comments like that, however they do hold a doze of truth regarding the current meta where Wizards are not quite prominent in anything.
People who have each class geared up do not care much for the class balance, they'll just switch to whatever is meta and that is a smart way to workaround the issues within the game, however that doesn't mean that people should just stop talking about "silly" things on the forum simply because someone considers them as such.
Ergo the only really silly thing is to offer nonconstructive criticism which reflects on nothing other than an inability to grasp the situation in which case it helps to nobody.
The fixes which occurred in the October gave me a bit hope that writing on the forum, albeit rarely and briefly, will maybe be an eye opener or at least a reminder that things with the classes aren't swell. Of course, I care for my own which is the Wizard class and I see no problem in that since I main a Wizard and as such I know what is the problem with the class atm.
: w a v e :
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I did a few T9G runs last night. We did have the standard 2xDC +OP (I was the OP) but the DPS changed over the course of 4 runs.
We started with SW & HR, went to SW & TR and ended on SW & GWF. The runs were arranged by friends list and the swap-outs were due to people only wanting 1 or 2 runs.
It was a casual, friendly thing with a lot of silly party chat - all runs averaged at 24 mins.
The run with the GWF had the best time of 23 mins, which saved an amazing 60 seconds off the run with the TR.
Arrange runs with people you know, then you can ignore all the LFG stuff from randoms and run it how you want.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
When I do pug runs, the key word here being *when* I will tell the recruiter I'm not BiS nor am I 15K+++ but I'm experienced and I know what I'm doing. This seems to get me a lot farther than just pm'ing them with a +CW/HR/TR/etc. My two bits.
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
Arrange runs with people you know, then you can ignore all the LFG stuff from randoms and run it how you want.
You offers the players ignore this problem. Please come back when all you runs averaged at 13 min.
How about you come back when you learn how to construct a sentence?
I also note that you run with 2xDC 2x OP and a GF - how does that address the issue this topic is on? I also noted that the 13 minute run you referred to, you were running to res shrines and killing yourselves to disengage mobs, whereas without doing that you took 18 mins - not quite so impressive and just 5 mins faster than my casual runs even with your maxed buff group.
I have no issue with you wanting to use a thread as an excuse for polishing your ego, but do try to do it without putting other people down for making perfectly reasonable comments.
Post edited by armadeonx on
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
How about you come back when you learn how to construct a sentence?
Ok. CW/SW 14k run tong 23 min,CW/SW 17k run tong 15 min, DC/OP/GF 14k run tong 13 min, but you can talk about balanse because they could all run 124 min.
a. You mean the video you posted on the OP class section wasn't of your group..? Then why did you post it along with an ACT log?
B. Slander is posting an untrue comment that harms a person's reputation - the defence to which is 'fair comment', the definition of which is "a comment or criticism made without malicious intent and based on accurate information or observation." As such, I stand by my assertion.
C. The only recorded 13 minute run that I've seen has been done by killing yourself at res shrines - if you have a video of doing it in 13 mins without this then I'd be interested in seeing it - please post it.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Also my original point was that, yes you can shave a little time off with a different mix of classes so long as everyone is running the double DC meta. This meta is going to be nerfed very soon (stated by the developers already). Players will of course come up with a different meta, but that's what players do.
However the purpose of my post was to say that players with a different mix can complete the dungeon in a perfectly acceptable time and that they are better off forming their own runs from capable guild members / friends list.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited December 2017
Watching LFG, it reminds me of MSVA era--long waits for multiple DCs. No other classes requested. Haven't been interested in participating. I remember waiting up to 45 minutes for DCs back then, and often the group would just split up over the course....
The posts are silly, or rather sad, due to how silly, or rather sad, the game balance is currently for the end-game content. It's just appropriate way to describe it to say the least.
I find it silly how easy it is to just randomly press each encounter as a GWF with trans lightning ench and believe that you're profoundly skilled player of the game. This sort of mentality is cancerous. And evident in ... well, everywhere. This happened back in MOD3, too. Always had to deal with a crazy GWF who rushes with a sword into the battle, chasing the paingiver.... Holy HAMSTER, that's annoying.
Some personal experience which might shed some light to people :
- After returning to the guild not so long time ago and got into a 12+ r dung for some AD gathering I got people telling me "I didn't know that Wizard has a speed boost like that".
- Another comment I received was "The best way to play the Wizards is to delete them".
It is funny to hear comments like that, however they do hold a doze of truth regarding the current meta where Wizards are not quite prominent in anything.
People who have each class geared up do not care much for the class balance, they'll just switch to whatever is meta and that is a smart way to workaround the issues within the game, however that doesn't mean that people should just stop talking about "silly" things on the forum simply because someone considers them as such.
Ergo the only really silly thing is to offer nonconstructive criticism which reflects on nothing other than an inability to grasp the situation in which case it helps to nobody.
The fixes which occurred in the October gave me a bit hope that writing on the forum, albeit rarely and briefly, will maybe be an eye opener or at least a reminder that things with the classes aren't swell. Of course, I care for my own which is the Wizard class and I see no problem in that since I main a Wizard and as such I know what is the problem with the class atm.
: w a v e :
I was playing DCUO prior to coming to NW. Instead of classes they have powers and each powerset has the ability to play as a DPS and a support role.
When I left that game there were a few super easy OP powersets and I played one of the weaker, not the weakest, powerset. I went into the hardest content as a DPS vs two of the strongest Powersets. Both of those players had more stats and better gear. I even had to change to my support role on the second boss as we lost one of our support characters. I ended up losing to the player using the most broken power in that game where if you did your rotation right you could do 2-3 hits in the millions without much effort whereas my powerset did steady and constant damage. I lost by under a million in damage and neither of the two DPS changed to a support role or died through the run. To put simply, I beat them as I was playing support on the 2nd boss for about 1/2 the fight and I loss around 1/2 of my damage output as a support player on that boss.
This game current state reminds me of DCUO where specific classes/powersets are preferred because they can do more damage than other classes even though it is clear that specific classes have an UNFAIR advantage. Yet, players of those classes will complain if they get beat, say get better if they beat you and any talk of adjusting their class results in a up roar.
Just looking at the GWF class and Feats, there are two feats that stick out that provides an unfair advantage. They are Steely Defense and Disciple of War, because they boost power by a % of Defense, Armor Pen and Recovery. With higher IL gear providing an increase in stats the GWF naturally would get a boost in power and with required increase in RI for newer content a GWF will gain more power.
I was talking with a near max IL GWF and he stated when you create your GWF go as low as you can into CON as you want to get Armor Pen up for your RI to maximize power. Along with adding Azures in defense to add to your power, forgo all other defense slots as Azure provides the best increase in a GWF damage. With the game constantly focusing on increasing stats, the GWF power rises faster than other classes because of these feats. It causes the GWF to have an unfair advantage and with weapon enchantments going off power, the GWF benefits the most due to gaining power from three other stats and makes it a bit easier to obtain 100% crit.
The GWF needs more in the way of feats for tanking and when I see a feat called Steely Defense, I don't think it will boost power, but it does. The reason I won't play a GWF is that it is DPS EASY MODE and quite frankly I see so many high IL GWF that are using cookie cutter loadouts and simply buy there way to end game and die a lot in content and have no clue on how to play the GWF effectively, but these so called players will be picked up due to the class they play and the IL they paid to obtain .
Besides the DPS balance in this game, there is also the issue of buffing and debuffing. The game really needs to be adjusted in many areas. With that said, the devs seem to want to add more buffing to class with the update to SW. As long as other buffers can provide just as much buffing/debuffing a 2nd DC than I withdraw my issue around the buffing/debuffing issue if other classes start to be included in content for their buffing/debuffing of the group.
I just hope the devs balance out the game so all DPS classes can produce similar damage. Right now HR and GWF are close. Hopefully the SW fixes brings them up. As for TR and CW, hopefully there are fixes happening behind the scenes to get them up in damage as well.
Watching LFG, it reminds me of MSVA era--long waits for multiple DCs. No other classes requested. Haven't been interested in participating. I remember waiting up to 45 minutes for DCs back then, and often the group would just split up over the course....
Speaking of MSVA. I joined a MSVA group yesterday. It was a total disaster. First off, only three of us had bonding above R10. The rest were R8 or R9. I was on my full buffing DC and I was on the damage board. That right there told me it was a bad run. I left within the first 5 minutes of the run as did the 15k HR.
The thing is the GWF in the run were almost 14K but none of them worked on their companions or bonding. It was the worst run I have ever been in on NW.
I did a few T9G runs last night. We did have the standard 2xDC +OP (I was the OP) but the DPS changed over the course of 4 runs.
We started with SW & HR, went to SW & TR and ended on SW & GWF. The runs were arranged by friends list and the swap-outs were due to people only wanting 1 or 2 runs.
It was a casual, friendly thing with a lot of silly party chat - all runs averaged at 24 mins.
The run with the GWF had the best time of 23 mins, which saved an amazing 60 seconds off the run with the TR.
Arrange runs with people you know, then you can ignore all the LFG stuff from randoms and run it how you want.
Running with players who know their class makes a difference vs. running with players that simply bought their way to end game.
I dont think so....bc your posts are still "strange" and it looks like you got some issues with GWFs. But you forget: What else than DPS can a GWF do? Can he CC? Can he buff? There is nothing than pure DPS that he can make. Blame that stupid game design for it. Instead of asking for "real" dungeons with "real" bossfights ( someone remember Frozenheart at the beginning and all the mobwaves you have to kite? Or the secound boss in karrundax? Awesome!!) you blame the GWFs to be to easy and they got unfair advantages. Thats nonsens. Dont do this....
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
and quite frankly I see so many high IL GWF that are using cookie cutter loadouts
There is only one good way to build a PVE GWF, with a couple of options on feats. Blame the devs for other trees/feats/powers being broken. Thank your lucky stars that CWs have at least 2 good trees. & etc.
The only reason GWF isn't considered as broken as the TR or SW is because the one path (SM/Destroyer) works well.
I also play a GF and a CW. Their forums are filled with people niggling over various options/feats/trees and the gear each would need. The GWF forum is silent, because there is precious little to talk about once you know the ONE way to build it.
I did a few T9G runs last night. We did have the standard 2xDC +OP (I was the OP) but the DPS changed over the course of 4 runs.
We started with SW & HR, went to SW & TR and ended on SW & GWF. The runs were arranged by friends list and the swap-outs were due to people only wanting 1 or 2 runs.
It was a casual, friendly thing with a lot of silly party chat - all runs averaged at 24 mins.
The run with the GWF had the best time of 23 mins, which saved an amazing 60 seconds off the run with the TR.
Arrange runs with people you know, then you can ignore all the LFG stuff from randoms and run it how you want.
Running with players who know their class makes a difference vs. running with players that simply bought their way to end game.
I dont think so....bc your posts are still "strange" and it looks like you got some issues with GWFs. But you forget: What else than DPS can a GWF do? Can he CC? Can he buff? There is nothing than pure DPS that he can make. Blame that stupid game design for it. Instead of asking for "real" dungeons with "real" bossfights ( someone remember Frozenheart at the beginning and all the mobwaves you have to kite? Or the secound boss in karrundax? Awesome!!) you blame the GWFs to be to easy and they got unfair advantages. Thats nonsens. Dont do this....
The GWF is also a tank class or did you forget that? I know I didn't as I was planning on making a GWF tank but once I saw how gimp it was as a tank I build a GF, not what I wanted but I play the class any ways.
and quite frankly I see so many high IL GWF that are using cookie cutter loadouts
There is only one good way to build a PVE GWF, with a couple of options on feats. Blame the devs for other trees/feats/powers being broken. Thank your lucky stars that CWs have at least 2 good trees. & etc.
The only reason GWF isn't considered as broken as the TR or SW is because the one path (SM/Destroyer) works well.
I also play a GF and a CW. Their forums are filled with people niggling over various options/feats/trees and the gear each would need. The GWF forum is silent, because there is precious little to talk about once you know the ONE way to build it.
I agree that GWF feats are a big issue for why the class only has one build. The devs need to seriously update the game to give GWF more option than what they currently have.
I play for classes: DC, GF, CW and SW. All four use the various paragon path or change to paragon feats path. I can say the same for OP and HR both have a bit more than say a GWF. That is a big issue the devs need to fix. I hope the devs do fix the GWF and allow them to actually play as a tank or actually play as an off tank.
gwf used to be off tank when the game is more balance before mod 6. I remember my guild mate use to be one of them but he quit when mod 6 came saying it ruin everything. I dont know gwf path so i dont know what he is talking about back then. Now i rarely see people play that. But i feel that even if they go off tank path in this mod, people gonna complain him being useless or dont know his class.
gwf used to be off tank when the game is more balance before mod 6. I remember my guild mate use to be one of them but he quit when mod 6 came saying it ruin everything. I dont know gwf path so i dont know what he is talking about back then. Now i rarely see people play that. But i feel that even if they go off tank path in this mod, people gonna complain him being useless or dont know his class.
It is the community mindset with this game.
For instance anyone who plays a MoF is a buffer. No, not always and some MoF outshine some very good SS.
If you play a SW you are a DPS. No, some prefer to play as a Templock. In fact, I prefer my Templock build over my Fury build on my SW. I just find the debuff and buff I provide outweigh the damage bonus I get as a full on DPS Fury warlock.
If you play a DC you are a buffer. Not 100% true again. I know a few people that like playing as a healer with minor buffing and others want to play as a full on DPS.
If you play a GWF you are a Destroyer DPS.
The community has really pigeonhole many class and if you play outside of anything that is the norm you typically will not be invited to a group unless your build offers buffs, debuffs, etc...that will improve other players damage.
The thing is though, it is not just this game that has this issue. It is almost any MMO where the community forms a mindset on what a class is specifically designed to be. The reason why I like ESO so much is class flexibility. All classes can play all roles and there are two types of DPS you have your magic and stamina builds and any class can play either type of DPS. Like like other MMOs some classes stand out for a specific roles or damage type and because of that just like in NW, ESO has classes that are preferred over others due to what they offer in a specific build.
GWF tanking is a thing but who does it when you can be a DPS and one of the most sought after DPS for that matter.
GWF lost the tank option in the Mod 4 rework when unstoppable got nerfed. Unstoppable originally could get the GWF to the DR cap and made the class the hardest to kill in the game. In Mod 4, ut was changed that only Sentinel got that level of defense, but at the same time the class's damage got mive far up into the Destroyer tree so Sents couldn't access it. You could either do damage (and thus generate threat) or be tanky and unable to do damage. Mod 6 made it all irrelevant anyway, as it brought with it the 1 shotting attacks that even 80% DR won't save you from. GF and OP have ways to survive with blocking and temp HP but GWF as a tank is a relic of a long gone game.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Are the Control Wizards still bound with the weapons that deal far less actual weapon damage in comparison to the weapon damage of the other classes? If yes, how is this balanced out?
Not only can GWFs hit many mobs at once, easy peasy, with an at-will, twice, but their weapon damage is also higher, if not the highest in the game for no apparent reason.
Ranged class should have less damage overall, but way higher attack rate. This is not the case since melee flatout outshines anything ranged. Even Rangers themselves deal more damage in melee stances.
Someone asked above whether GWFs can CC?! Someone actually wants to talk about CC options for the lvl 73 mobs, where CC is fundamentally worthless to even think about. Yes, GWFs can CC with some skills. But GWFs were essentially a head-on class which gathers all the mobs around and brings them back to the party, so that the party can put all their little circles around, wizards keep them frozen, SWs keep them cursed, DCs keep them debuffed, and the crazy pugs throw them around since they never learn how to play with tactics by utilizing the mechanics. Now, gwfs just go, hold at-will, win. It's as easy as that.
We know that the weapon damage plays a HUGE role in the overall damage pool calculation. A mere increase by 50, for instance, is already an astounding improvement.
Let's compare :
Control Wizard's Manaseeker Orb - 1,542-,1885 Damage. Great Weapon Fighter's Headsman's Greataxe 2,221-2,714 Damage.
That's 829 relative damage itself. That's A LOT, ok...
Guess which one attacks way faster and can utilize it's potential far faster in terms of the DPS?
How is this "mitigated" in terms of the balance? It's only superficially "balanced" by offering the same stats
The damage itself is greatly disbalanced from the start.
The slowness of the Chilling Cloud and it's inability to hit multiple targets at once, once again puts Control Wizard at a great disadvantage. The more "well equipped" you are and essentially possess the end-game build, the greater this disbalance will be shown. Wizards shoots one chilling cloud, it travels until it hits, GWF already ran amazingly fast, hit mobs twice and had enough time to drink a coffee, too. The class should probably be called "Flash".
GWFs can jump at great lengths. Run super-fast, especially with the new toys I've seen GWFs who were blazingly fast (could be a bug, but I don't know), hit faster, harder an achieve more than any other class without really putting a lot of time and effort into the build.
Next to a GWF other classes stand no chance to be considered a DPS class. This is evident now more than ever before.
HRs got buffed up pretty good. SWs were going up and down with their broken brokery at times, but the class needs a rebalance. TRs are basically magicians at this point, vanishing, maybe still playing PvP to annoy GFs? I don't know...Class needs a rebalance. CWs are the greatest laughing stock currently despite giving the most to the entire community. With lvl 73 mobs and their insane perma-DR which affects CC itself, and since that CC is the epitome of the CWs Damage itself, what or how can one utilize it? There is simply no way for it to happen and pretty much all CC increasing abilities are taking away the percent of the percentage of the elite mobs perma-DR and CC immunity.
If we want to have balance everything should start from the Weapon Damage itself. Weaker Weapon damage results in weaker Weapon Enchantments per class.
For the CWs to be viable, they'd need to become a nuke class as seen in many MMOs down the history lane...I've never seen a class in any MMO getting so much nerfed, yet remaining viable solely due to the people's passion with the Wizard class (and still the most fun class to play in NWO I reckon )
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I completed a run yesterday with three sub-14k toons: TR, DC, GF. They must have had some trouble initially because they called for help at Orcus: 16k TR (me) and 17k DC. After that it was sooooth and the final boss went down easily the first time.
Clearly they were experienced because they were all in primal gear, so that's what probably made the difference.
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
First of. there are not many GF´s doing this damage. GF prepares by blocking the incoming damage before fight starts So he get´s his multiplier up damage x 1,2 from capstone x 1.2 from Shield warriors wrath Next is Tensor Disc , Knights Chalange x2, relic weapon x1.1, somone popped Wheel on him x1.3, he poped Crystal x 1.5 = dps x 6.1 Hollowed ground x1.4, Terryfying insight x 1.2, bane x 1.1-1.3, ITF x 1.3, Exaltation x 1.125, devine DG x 1.125, Long strider x 1.4, e FF x 1.15 now we are at... mulitiplier x 30.24, and x 36.6 if bane stacked 3 times not once. NOt sure if there are other multiplier on top.
About debuffs, all you might get on the boss I guess so maybe maxed at > 300%, so another multiplier x 3, ending at dealt damage at 85% RI x 100 plus a broken buff (bloody death). Coordination and pretty good player, and one slightly overperforming encounter called Knights challange. Something a GWF will have issues to do same, since he can´t stack multiplier in short like that and the groups will have issues to coordinate buffs that easily. But I am far from feeling sorry for the GWF class, same as I am far from feeling sorry for any CW , the class ia capable to deal pretty solid damage. Maybe ask for a buff, that you can charge IBS 3 times to be on par with GF in terms of speedkills, lol.
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
I actually laughed out loud, @rjc9000 - as a gwiff. Albeit this doesn't happen in our alliance... mostly. Im still a scrub tho, lagging behind Wicked, Grimmjow etc.
In any case, tomb is skill over gear score any time of the day. I finished tomb with 2x 12.5-13k DCs, me as the 2nd DPS and a CW as main DPS (i'm 15.1k, CW is about 16.5k) and the tank was 13k. A GF, in fact. Yesterday I did an alliance run in which we had a 16k GWF, a 14.5k DC, a 17.3k mof and a 14.xk pally. We couldn't do it. Kicked the gwf, got other players that are very skilled, instead of looking at the gear score. We destroyed Ras Nsi.
That's pretty much why the Relentless alliance is against using "h"dps and requesting gear scores. That's why my guild always judges by rotations and skill, rather than damage.
As a very lovely community in the RPG industry would say, "GIT GUD"
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
Maybe ask for a buff, that you can charge IBS 3 times to be on par with GF in terms of speedkills, lol.
It's called "class change to GF".
I love players that send me tells to get skilled and get good. I usually reply with a nice comment like, "Living in your mom's basement still!" that usually shuts them up.
This is a game and the the information about what is working and what is broken the devs can review data and see where things need to be adjusted. What I do not like is that the devs stopped doing the class balancing all together. I'm guessing it is because every time they did it resulted in a pretty big up roar by the community. SW nerf, GF being OP with command strike, etc... The thing was though, I liked that devs were trying to fix classes and give us more options.
DC, HR, SW, and GF all got treatment where one build was king and now we have 2 builds for each class that are viable. Wish they would go back to that and work on TR and GWF.
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I seen many bad GWF do exactly what he wrote and when a I beat them as a13K IL CW, I end up getting tells saying I cheated and such. The funny thing is I respond stating, how did I cheat when I'm giving you a 20% boost in your damage instead of being selfish DPS. That usually send them over the edge once they learned they got beat by a Hybrid buffing CW DPS and not a full on CW DPS. I usually see additional tells with profanity and such as well as I'm reporting you for cheating, etc... I am in no way cheating as I simply run a standard MoF DPS loadout but instead of slotting Chilling Presence I run Swath of Destruction.
It is not my fault that a 16K+ GWF has no idea how to play their class.
Though it is these players formed imbalanced group compositions that help shine the light on class imbalances. After the 2 DC changes, the 2 Tank composition will probably be under the magnifying lens (if not already). Not so sure about this one.
Players still need the option to compose a group how they want, whether it is "optimal" or not, also if players want to bring in a character that is 1k too low for normal ilvl requirements they still could.
After the 2 DC changes and possibly the 2 Tank changes the idea of removing the private queue system may not be necessary. Oh how taking down GWF's in DPS can bring about such pleasure
Personally get things like "I wasn't trying", "I'm lagging" "Let's run FBI/MSVA". When they suggest other content, personally the response is "let's two man it and make a bet who does more DPS" and they pretty ALL decline because without a tank they can't just stand there and DPS
A number of them aren't humble while playing a class that by design has an innate advantage in DPS output (doesn't always work out for them though it's still there).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I find it silly how easy it is to just randomly press each encounter as a GWF with trans lightning ench and believe that you're profoundly skilled player of the game. This sort of mentality is cancerous. And evident in ... well, everywhere. This happened back in MOD3, too. Always had to deal with a crazy GWF who rushes with a sword into the battle, chasing the paingiver.... Holy HAMSTER, that's annoying.
Some personal experience which might shed some light to people :
- After returning to the guild not so long time ago and got into a 12+ r dung for some AD gathering I got people telling me "I didn't know that Wizard has a speed boost like that".
- Another comment I received was "The best way to play the Wizards is to delete them".
It is funny to hear comments like that, however they do hold a doze of truth regarding the current meta where Wizards are not quite prominent in anything.
People who have each class geared up do not care much for the class balance, they'll just switch to whatever is meta and that is a smart way to workaround the issues within the game, however that doesn't mean that people should just stop talking about "silly" things on the forum simply because someone considers them as such.
Ergo the only really silly thing is to offer nonconstructive criticism which reflects on nothing other than an inability to grasp the situation in which case it helps to nobody.
The fixes which occurred in the October gave me a bit hope that writing on the forum, albeit rarely and briefly, will maybe be an eye opener or at least a reminder that things with the classes aren't swell. Of course, I care for my own which is the Wizard class and I see no problem in that since I main a Wizard and as such I know what is the problem with the class atm.
: w a v e :
1 Button GWFs and Lightning enchant...i see, i see. Very smart and well founded.
We started with SW & HR, went to SW & TR and ended on SW & GWF. The runs were arranged by friends list and the swap-outs were due to people only wanting 1 or 2 runs.
It was a casual, friendly thing with a lot of silly party chat - all runs averaged at 24 mins.
The run with the GWF had the best time of 23 mins, which saved an amazing 60 seconds off the run with the TR.
Arrange runs with people you know, then you can ignore all the LFG stuff from randoms and run it how you want.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
My two bits.
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
I also note that you run with 2xDC 2x OP and a GF - how does that address the issue this topic is on? I also noted that the 13 minute run you referred to, you were running to res shrines and killing yourselves to disengage mobs, whereas without doing that you took 18 mins - not quite so impressive and just 5 mins faster than my casual runs even with your maxed buff group.
I have no issue with you wanting to use a thread as an excuse for polishing your ego, but do try to do it without putting other people down for making perfectly reasonable comments.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
B. Slander is posting an untrue comment that harms a person's reputation - the defence to which is 'fair comment', the definition of which is "a comment or criticism made without malicious intent and based on accurate information or observation." As such, I stand by my assertion.
C. The only recorded 13 minute run that I've seen has been done by killing yourself at res shrines - if you have a video of doing it in 13 mins without this then I'd be interested in seeing it - please post it.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
However the purpose of my post was to say that players with a different mix can complete the dungeon in a perfectly acceptable time and that they are better off forming their own runs from capable guild members / friends list.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
When I left that game there were a few super easy OP powersets and I played one of the weaker, not the weakest, powerset. I went into the hardest content as a DPS vs two of the strongest Powersets. Both of those players had more stats and better gear. I even had to change to my support role on the second boss as we lost one of our support characters. I ended up losing to the player using the most broken power in that game where if you did your rotation right you could do 2-3 hits in the millions without much effort whereas my powerset did steady and constant damage. I lost by under a million in damage and neither of the two DPS changed to a support role or died through the run. To put simply, I beat them as I was playing support on the 2nd boss for about 1/2 the fight and I loss around 1/2 of my damage output as a support player on that boss.
This game current state reminds me of DCUO where specific classes/powersets are preferred because they can do more damage than other classes even though it is clear that specific classes have an UNFAIR advantage. Yet, players of those classes will complain if they get beat, say get better if they beat you and any talk of adjusting their class results in a up roar.
Just looking at the GWF class and Feats, there are two feats that stick out that provides an unfair advantage. They are Steely Defense and Disciple of War, because they boost power by a % of Defense, Armor Pen and Recovery. With higher IL gear providing an increase in stats the GWF naturally would get a boost in power and with required increase in RI for newer content a GWF will gain more power.
I was talking with a near max IL GWF and he stated when you create your GWF go as low as you can into CON as you want to get Armor Pen up for your RI to maximize power. Along with adding Azures in defense to add to your power, forgo all other defense slots as Azure provides the best increase in a GWF damage. With the game constantly focusing on increasing stats, the GWF power rises faster than other classes because of these feats. It causes the GWF to have an unfair advantage and with weapon enchantments going off power, the GWF benefits the most due to gaining power from three other stats and makes it a bit easier to obtain 100% crit.
The GWF needs more in the way of feats for tanking and when I see a feat called Steely Defense, I don't think it will boost power, but it does. The reason I won't play a GWF is that it is DPS EASY MODE and quite frankly I see so many high IL GWF that are using cookie cutter loadouts and simply buy there way to end game and die a lot in content and have no clue on how to play the GWF effectively, but these so called players will be picked up due to the class they play and the IL they paid to obtain .
Besides the DPS balance in this game, there is also the issue of buffing and debuffing. The game really needs to be adjusted in many areas. With that said, the devs seem to want to add more buffing to class with the update to SW. As long as other buffers can provide just as much buffing/debuffing a 2nd DC than I withdraw my issue around the buffing/debuffing issue if other classes start to be included in content for their buffing/debuffing of the group.
I just hope the devs balance out the game so all DPS classes can produce similar damage. Right now HR and GWF are close. Hopefully the SW fixes brings them up. As for TR and CW, hopefully there are fixes happening behind the scenes to get them up in damage as well.
The thing is the GWF in the run were almost 14K but none of them worked on their companions or bonding. It was the worst run I have ever been in on NW.
What else than DPS can a GWF do? Can he CC? Can he buff? There is nothing than pure DPS that he can make. Blame that stupid game design for it. Instead of asking for "real" dungeons with "real" bossfights ( someone remember Frozenheart at the beginning and all the mobwaves you have to kite? Or the secound boss in karrundax? Awesome!!) you blame the GWFs to be to easy and they got unfair advantages. Thats nonsens. Dont do this....
The only reason GWF isn't considered as broken as the TR or SW is because the one path (SM/Destroyer) works well.
I also play a GF and a CW. Their forums are filled with people niggling over various options/feats/trees and the gear each would need. The GWF forum is silent, because there is precious little to talk about once you know the ONE way to build it.
I play for classes: DC, GF, CW and SW. All four use the various paragon path or change to paragon feats path. I can say the same for OP and HR both have a bit more than say a GWF. That is a big issue the devs need to fix. I hope the devs do fix the GWF and allow them to actually play as a tank or actually play as an off tank.
For instance anyone who plays a MoF is a buffer. No, not always and some MoF outshine some very good SS.
If you play a SW you are a DPS. No, some prefer to play as a Templock. In fact, I prefer my Templock build over my Fury build on my SW. I just find the debuff and buff I provide outweigh the damage bonus I get as a full on DPS Fury warlock.
If you play a DC you are a buffer. Not 100% true again. I know a few people that like playing as a healer with minor buffing and others want to play as a full on DPS.
If you play a GWF you are a Destroyer DPS.
The community has really pigeonhole many class and if you play outside of anything that is the norm you typically will not be invited to a group unless your build offers buffs, debuffs, etc...that will improve other players damage.
The thing is though, it is not just this game that has this issue. It is almost any MMO where the community forms a mindset on what a class is specifically designed to be. The reason why I like ESO so much is class flexibility. All classes can play all roles and there are two types of DPS you have your magic and stamina builds and any class can play either type of DPS. Like like other MMOs some classes stand out for a specific roles or damage type and because of that just like in NW, ESO has classes that are preferred over others due to what they offer in a specific build.
GWF tanking is a thing but who does it when you can be a DPS and one of the most sought after DPS for that matter.
Are the Control Wizards still bound with the weapons that deal far less actual weapon damage in comparison to the weapon damage of the other classes? If yes, how is this balanced out?
Not only can GWFs hit many mobs at once, easy peasy, with an at-will, twice, but their weapon damage is also higher, if not the highest in the game for no apparent reason.
Ranged class should have less damage overall, but way higher attack rate. This is not the case since melee flatout outshines anything ranged. Even Rangers themselves deal more damage in melee stances.
Someone asked above whether GWFs can CC?! Someone actually wants to talk about CC options for the lvl 73 mobs, where CC is fundamentally worthless to even think about. Yes, GWFs can CC with some skills. But GWFs were essentially a head-on class which gathers all the mobs around and brings them back to the party, so that the party can put all their little circles around, wizards keep them frozen, SWs keep them cursed, DCs keep them debuffed, and the crazy pugs throw them around since they never learn how to play with tactics by utilizing the mechanics.
Now, gwfs just go, hold at-will, win. It's as easy as that.
We know that the weapon damage plays a HUGE role in the overall damage pool calculation. A mere increase by 50, for instance, is already an astounding improvement.
Let's compare :
Control Wizard's Manaseeker Orb - 1,542-,1885 Damage.
Great Weapon Fighter's Headsman's Greataxe 2,221-2,714 Damage.
That's 829 relative damage itself. That's A LOT, ok...
Guess which one attacks way faster and can utilize it's potential far faster in terms of the DPS?
How is this "mitigated" in terms of the balance? It's only superficially "balanced" by offering the same stats
Equip: +3% Everfrost Damage Resistance
Equip: +7,622 Power
Equip: +1,343 Critical Strike
Equip: +1,343 Recovery
The damage itself is greatly disbalanced from the start.
The slowness of the Chilling Cloud and it's inability to hit multiple targets at once, once again puts Control Wizard at a great disadvantage. The more "well equipped" you are and essentially possess the end-game build, the greater this disbalance will be shown. Wizards shoots one chilling cloud, it travels until it hits, GWF already ran amazingly fast, hit mobs twice and had enough time to drink a coffee, too. The class should probably be called "Flash".
GWFs can jump at great lengths. Run super-fast, especially with the new toys I've seen GWFs who were blazingly fast (could be a bug, but I don't know), hit faster, harder an achieve more than any other class without really putting a lot of time and effort into the build.
Next to a GWF other classes stand no chance to be considered a DPS class. This is evident now more than ever before.
HRs got buffed up pretty good.
SWs were going up and down with their broken brokery at times, but the class needs a rebalance.
TRs are basically magicians at this point, vanishing, maybe still playing PvP to annoy GFs? I don't know...Class needs a rebalance.
CWs are the greatest laughing stock currently despite giving the most to the entire community. With lvl 73 mobs and their insane perma-DR which affects CC itself, and since that CC is the epitome of the CWs Damage itself, what or how can one utilize it? There is simply no way for it to happen and pretty much all CC increasing abilities are taking away the percent of the percentage of the elite mobs perma-DR and CC immunity.
If we want to have balance everything should start from the Weapon Damage itself. Weaker Weapon damage results in weaker Weapon Enchantments per class.
For the CWs to be viable, they'd need to become a nuke class as seen in many MMOs down the history lane...I've never seen a class in any MMO getting so much nerfed, yet remaining viable solely due to the people's passion with the Wizard class (and still the most fun class to play in NWO I reckon
Clearly they were experienced because they were all in primal gear, so that's what probably made the difference.
I made a thread bc i wanna know something:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1236800/ok-this-is-wai-explain-please-whats-going-on-here
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
GF prepares by blocking the incoming damage before fight starts
So he get´s his multiplier up damage x 1,2 from capstone x 1.2 from Shield warriors wrath
Next is Tensor Disc , Knights Chalange x2, relic weapon x1.1, somone popped Wheel on him x1.3, he poped Crystal x 1.5 = dps x 6.1
Hollowed ground x1.4, Terryfying insight x 1.2, bane x 1.1-1.3, ITF x 1.3, Exaltation x 1.125, devine DG x 1.125, Long strider x 1.4, e FF x 1.15
now we are at... mulitiplier x 30.24, and x 36.6 if bane stacked 3 times not once. NOt sure if there are other multiplier on top.
About debuffs, all you might get on the boss I guess so maybe maxed at > 300%, so another multiplier x 3, ending at dealt damage at 85% RI x 100 plus a broken buff (bloody death).
Coordination and pretty good player, and one slightly overperforming encounter called Knights challange.
Something a GWF will have issues to do same, since he can´t stack multiplier in short like that and the groups will have issues to coordinate buffs that easily.
But I am far from feeling sorry for the GWF class, same as I am far from feeling sorry for any CW , the class ia capable to deal pretty solid damage.
Maybe ask for a buff, that you can charge IBS 3 times to be on par with GF in terms of speedkills, lol.
Didn't you know you could play GWF using a flowchart?
It's called "class change to GF".
In any case, tomb is skill over gear score any time of the day. I finished tomb with 2x 12.5-13k DCs, me as the 2nd DPS and a CW as main DPS (i'm 15.1k, CW is about 16.5k) and the tank was 13k. A GF, in fact.
Yesterday I did an alliance run in which we had a 16k GWF, a 14.5k DC, a 17.3k mof and a 14.xk pally. We couldn't do it. Kicked the gwf, got other players that are very skilled, instead of looking at the gear score. We destroyed Ras Nsi.
That's pretty much why the Relentless alliance is against using "h"dps and requesting gear scores. That's why my guild always judges by rotations and skill, rather than damage.
As a very lovely community in the RPG industry would say, "GIT GUD"
This is a game and the the information about what is working and what is broken the devs can review data and see where things need to be adjusted. What I do not like is that the devs stopped doing the class balancing all together. I'm guessing it is because every time they did it resulted in a pretty big up roar by the community. SW nerf, GF being OP with command strike, etc... The thing was though, I liked that devs were trying to fix classes and give us more options.
DC, HR, SW, and GF all got treatment where one build was king and now we have 2 builds for each class that are viable. Wish they would go back to that and work on TR and GWF.