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Official: M13 Scourge Warlock Changes

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  • dowapidowapi Posts: 2Member Arc User

    dowapi said:

    well guys, is just 1 week before the update, i'm trying a lot of build but can't find a good dps one for the sw, some tips to give?

    Read at least a part of this thread, you will then understand that SW underperform, so there is NO WAY to make a GOOD dps.
    However it doesn't mean there isn't a way to max SW dps, so good luck trying builds like us all :smile:

    dowapi said:

    and in that moment the some skill like dreadleft seems bugged too...

    It "seem" what?

    dowapi said:

    P.s. all i'm trying is witouth a dps meter becouse the only one i got ( advance combat tracker ) seems to don't work for me, a problem with some file missing...

    1. Debug ACT
    2. Find the output files, put them in Excel (other equivalent tools are meh)
      • filter & cut columns correctly
      • push all that in a pivot table
      • => you got your custom ACT ready for unlimited analysis
    at the moment on preview if you use dreadleft meanwhile you can attack, can't understand well if in this way you do double attack or what, but for sure you can't put the stack of Flames Of Empowerment
  • merhunesdagon1merhunesdagon1 Posts: 146Member Arc User
    edited February 2018

    My SW is fine.... If I run beside a bad performing GWF

    My SW underperforms significant vs the average GWF player.

    My SW really sucks a lot when facing one of those few good performing GWF.



    This includes the fact that my focus damage is broken by dealing up to 500%+ effectiveness

    Lets not forget the majority of GWF in NW are terrible GWF. That doesnt negate the fact that SW in a bad place atm. that being said, i dont complain everytime I get outdmg. that kills the fun in the game imho. What really kills the fun though, is the devs inability to fix our dmg.
    Honestly, this class should be cured easily in no time, some small adjustments, some buffs and done.
    The fact that this takes ages, reading and writing walls of text, testing, again writing, testing, complaining about missing progress etc. in a never ending circle not to understand.
    the delay is all on cryptics end. we have smart ppl in the SW community that know what needs to be fixed and how it needs to be fixed. Ill be the 1st to say that math never was my strong suit so I try to avoid getting in the middle of the eggheads theory crafting and etc. I think my build suffers from that too :) beside that, I think @balanced#2849 is doing a good job with what he has to work with.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    No @merhunesdagon1, my comment was regarding @gromovnipljesak#8234 's as he claimed that his SW friend almost matched him in single target dps and you very well know that, with legit setups vs a good GWF, SW stands no chance (which is why I pointed out that warlock may be abusing the dps bug) so it's either that and/or his GWF needs some serious work.

    I agree however that the difference in dps shouldn't be x10 less times the GWF's although even with a good warlock there will still be a significant gap between those 2 classes as the one we play still is the weakest striker in the game.

    @balanced#2849 hopefully you haven't forgotten about the specific SW issues that have been discussed a while ago (like the ones I listed and you commented one by one), for example, addressing our incredibly underpowered Class Features (literary the striker with worst ones) by making them good selfbuffs (the feats from paragon trees that give damage bonus generally are far too weak as well) would be a step in the right direction.
  • merhunesdagon1merhunesdagon1 Posts: 146Member Arc User

    No @merhunesdagon1, my comment was regarding @gromovnipljesak#8234 's as he claimed that his SW friend almost matched him in single target dps and you very well know that, with legit setups vs a good GWF, SW stands no chance (which is why I pointed out that warlock have be abusing the dps bug) so it's either that and/or his GWF needs some serious work.

    I agree however that the difference in dps shouldn't be x10 less times the GWF's although with a good warlocks there will still be a significant gap between those 2 classes as the one we play still is the weakest in the game.

    @balanced#2849 hopefully you haven't forgotten about the specific SW issues that have been discussed a while ago (like the ones I listed and you commented one by one), for example, addressing our incredibly underpowered Class Features by making them good selfbuffs (the feats from paragon trees that give damage bonus generally are far too weak as well) would be a step in the right direction.

    I meant to reply to @dragonsbite not u who posted an act log where a GWF did more than 10x his dmg, which i said was really bad. then again he posted no real info apart from that.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,226Member Arc User

    My SW is fine.... If I run beside a bad performing GWF

    My SW underperforms significant vs the average GWF player.

    My SW really sucks a lot when facing one of those few good performing GWF.



    This includes the fact that my focus damage is broken by dealing up to 500%+ effectiveness

    Lets not forget the majority of GWF in NW are terrible GWF. That doesnt negate the fact that SW in a bad place atm. that being said, i dont complain everytime I get outdmg. that kills the fun in the game imho. What really kills the fun though, is the devs inability to fix our dmg.
    Honestly, this class should be cured easily in no time, some small adjustments, some buffs and done.
    The fact that this takes ages, reading and writing walls of text, testing, again writing, testing, complaining about missing progress etc. in a never ending circle not to understand.
    the delay is all on cryptics end. we have smart ppl in the SW community that know what needs to be fixed and how it needs to be fixed. Ill be the 1st to say that math never was my strong suit so I try to avoid getting in the middle of the eggheads theory crafting and etc. I think my build suffers from that too :) beside that, I think @balanced#2849 is doing a good job with what he has to work with.
    I also think @balanced#2849 is doing good job in a hole, it´s no easy mission at all.
    But time runs by and I got more and more bored from the actual situation.
    The moment I log into this game, the first and the last thing I read in chat is : "Lfm Tong need OP, 2xDC" ... all the time, 24/7
    There is no request for anything else , esp not for classes like SW and TR.
    I think it´s time to fix this , get buffs in line and balance classes, it´s urgent imo.
  • dragonsbitedragonsbite Posts: 42Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    dowapi said:

    well guys, is just 1 week before the update, i'm trying a lot of build but can't find a good dps one for the sw, some tips to give?
    and in that moment the some skill like dreadleft seems bugged too...

    P.s. all i'm trying is witouth a dps meter becouse the only one i got ( advance combat tracker ) seems to don't work for me, a problem with some file missing...

    Is the missing file the one specifically required for Neverwinter. See my post here for that updated file https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238063/advanced-combat-tracker-plugin-for-neverwinter-updates-feb-2018/p1?new=1

    There's a link with instructions as well. Please utilize it.
  • dragonsbitedragonsbite Posts: 42Member Arc User
    edited February 2018

    murphyva said:


    Was hoping for a more inspiring answer but i'm happy someone gave it to me straight :) guess i'll start building a dc now

    Nah, i personally think that you should not do that. With a templock loadout you probably have a very good chance to get into high end dungeons. As i heard do-dc will probably loose some ground against templock and it is rather likely that templock can substitute do-dc. A friend of mine did a t9g run with a templock on preview replacing one dc and he said that there was no real difference in time for the run. He stated that he had the feeling that it was even faster as with a dc. He already has a rather good dc (that he also did a lot of t9g runs with) and is now preparing a templock build for the next module.

    And from my current experience any SW build in the new module will be able to run all solo-content available. Even if there is a load to do i think that @balanced#2849 is on a good way. From my very personal opinion it is not that the warlock is too weak but that some other classes are ridicously too strong - partly because of some self buff mechanic, partly because of some weird effects of lightning enchantments, power share and aura of courage from OP paladin. And btw, even if it hurts to say it, as long as this does not change it is really a question if the game could provide any challenge anymore if you make the warlock as overpowered as the others currently are.
    Someone who understands the problem. And no I don't want the warlock OP. I want the bugs fixed that make some classes OP.
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @dragonsbite

    So warlock is fine and all other damage dealers are overpowered? More like it is the opposite, warlock is very underpowered and the other strikers deal damage like it should be done, the warlock class is so weak as a striker that everything else seems overpowered in comparison and that speaks volumes for the state of the class.

    A quick look at SW specific issues makes and the way dungeons work maked it clear it why the class that is underperforming, is not about other strikers being overpowered, they are doing what they're meant to.

    All classes have bugs one way or another so I don't see why'd bring that point.

    Bottomline is, it is easier and faster making SW a worthwhile striker than nerfing the other damage dealers which are what they're supposed to anyway. Buff SW, increase basa damage of strikers in general and decrease the effectiveness of buffs and there you have it, probably a better game.
  • espasbadfistespasbadfist Posts: 39Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @dragonsbite



    So warlock is fine and all other damage dealers are overpowered? More like it is the opposite, warlock is very underpowered and the other strikers deal damage like it should be done, the warlock class is so weak as a striker that everything else seems overpowered in comparison and that speaks volumes for the state of the class.



    A quick look at SW specific issues makes and the way dungeons work maked it clear it why the class that is underperforming, is not about other strikers being overpowered, they are doing what they're meant to.



    All classes have bugs one way or another so I don't see why'd bring that point.



    Bottomline is, it is easier and faster making SW a worthwhile striker than nerfing the other damage dealers which are what they're supposed to anyway. Buff SW, increase basa damage of strikers in general and decrease the effectiveness of buffs and there you have it, probably a better game.

    Yesterday i did an eGWD with my 14k SW-SB (probably damnation loadout) and there was also a ~13k GWF in the party (public q) who had a trans terror on his weapon. We had some rather good buffs and got through the dungeon at a good speed. In the end the GWF did some seriously more damage than i did. I looked at the damage protocol in game and found things like this:

    - his terror enchant procced for about 80k on each hit
    - hidden daggers was good for about 300k on each hit
    - best of all: sure strike hits that were going up to around 750k

    Looking for my damage from hand of blight i think i did sth between 100-200k maximum. All with really good buffs i like to say. When going solo HoB hits for about 20-30k on lvl 70 mobs, maybe a little more.

    When comparing HoB against sure strike i would need a multiplicator of around 3-4 to compensate for the difference. So eg warlocks curse should give a damage bonus of about 350% instead of 30%? Did i mess up some math here or does this sound overpowered to you too?

    With my build i currently can rather easily run any solo content and that should be enough imho to qualify for the hardest dungeons the game offers. It does not and i think this is because those dungeons were designed for classes and mechanics that are simply bad by design, broken or both :)
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    Dreadtheft is bugged with Hellish Rebuke again (You can cast HR while DT is active and do damage with HR).

    As there is nothing from the Devs and the mod is less than a week from live I think we have what we have now.

    That's basically a small improvement in Fury dps, a significant improvement in Temptation buffs (but still large DPS problems for the spec that queues as dps) and near 0 for Damnation (to the point that if you had Temptation and Damnation builds under 12B you can put the Damnation away now).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • merhunesdagon1merhunesdagon1 Posts: 146Member Arc User
    edited February 2018

    Dreadtheft is bugged with Hellish Rebuke again (You can cast HR while DT is active and do damage with HR).

    As there is nothing from the Devs and the mod is less than a week from live I think we have what we have now.

    That's basically a small improvement in Fury dps, a significant improvement in Temptation buffs (but still large DPS problems for the spec that queues as dps) and near 0 for Damnation (to the point that if you had Temptation and Damnation builds under 12B you can put the Damnation away now).

    You can also cast KF while dreadtheft is up, it has to be timed perfectly. a while back u could cast essence defiler with it up as well. and u can still res ppl while dt is active
  • duckntrollduckntroll Posts: 95Member Arc User

    You can also cast [...] while dreadtheft is up, it has to be timed perfectly [...] and u can still res ppl while dt is active

    It's not a bug it's a feature, because SW need it!
    Especially resurrecting people!
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    well if reduce a litle cold downs some powers like DT its perfectly functional and not need (not should need) for resurrect ppl or whatever, for this have 2 solves devs can reduce cold downs sw or your put more recovery
  • dragonsbitedragonsbite Posts: 42Member Arc User

    @dragonsbite



    So warlock is fine and all other damage dealers are overpowered? More like it is the opposite, warlock is very underpowered and the other strikers deal damage like it should be done, the warlock class is so weak as a striker that everything else seems overpowered in comparison and that speaks volumes for the state of the class.



    A quick look at SW specific issues makes and the way dungeons work maked it clear it why the class that is underperforming, is not about other strikers being overpowered, they are doing what they're meant to.



    All classes have bugs one way or another so I don't see why'd bring that point.



    Bottomline is, it is easier and faster making SW a worthwhile striker than nerfing the other damage dealers which are what they're supposed to anyway. Buff SW, increase basa damage of strikers in general and decrease the effectiveness of buffs and there you have it, probably a better game.

    I did not say that warlock was fine and all other damage dealers are overpowered? I previously said i'd like to see a 50% increase in warlock damage. I'm not sure if that's the exact amount needed. Maybe it's less. It's hard to say because of at least 1 class that's way, way, way, OP. And that is the most glaring problem atm and can easily be fixed by fixing the bugs. And even if they do that it still may not be enough. But it sure would help a lot. It's not about nerfing anyone. It's about fixing the bugs and buffing the classes that need to be buffed.
  • patcherrkmpatcherrkm Posts: 127Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 2018
    HUGE BUG!!

    On this latest Preview Patch>

    Lesser Curse is no longer triggering the 20% damage increase for allies. Please don't let warlock go live with this broken. All our curses must trigger the soulbonding capstone for us to be considered instead of a DC.
    Post edited by patcherrkm on
  • darkan#3756 darkan Posts: 141Member Arc User
    Bug on damnation some times investure soul appear on life bar of your companion instead on soulpuppet
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Posts: 130Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 2018

    HUGE BUG!!

    On this latest Preview Patch>

    Lesser Curse is no longer triggering the 20% damage increase for allies. Please don't let warlock go live with this broken. All our curses must trigger the soulbonding capstone for us to be considered instead of a DC.

    I do not think that is a bug, more like the way it is intended to work. Soul Bonding damage buff is supposed to be from the main Warlock's Curse, so if you find that this curse does not trigger it you can report it as a bug. I already think with the way it is intended and the fix of the various powers from DC that stacks that a warlock temp will be as good or better than a DO in addition to the AC. Already on live my warlock can perform similarly to an additional DO . .
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @dragonsbite

    Oh I see what happened, you agreed with someone's statement that SW is fimnw but that other classes are op because of bugs and that's why I tagged you on my post.

    Like I said, all classes have bugs and SW is not exception (I mean the t9g/CoDG dps bug) and yet, my point stands, take away bugs from all classes and it changes nothing, we'll be in a similar spot relative to other damage dealers.

    Fixing bugs of all classes cannot make up for our specific, naming a few now:

    - Almost non-existant dps Class Features, they are laughable at best, literary the class with weakest ones, this makes it so from the start our damage potential already is inferior to other strikers. Sw needs class features to be reworked to buffs so damage scales much better and doesn't suffer from diminishing returns (like Flames of Empowerment does as a weakling 15% debuff, the sad part is that it's one of our "best" passive powers...)

    - Damage bonus from regular paragon feats. Take a look at those of the other of strikers, they comfortably wipe the floor with SW's. This further widens the dps gap between SW and strikers with proper feats that usually have good/great synergy with Class Features/powers/mechanics and ends up as SW with laughable self-buffs vs other strikers' far superior ones. Percing Blades vs Killing Curse... lol?

    - Long casting times.

    - Very long and slow DoT damage from powers and proc, even in boss fights, it often hardly has time to deal full damage.

    - Killing Flames, out of the "hardest hitting" encounters from striker classes in general is the only one that not only has an extreme disparity between min and max damage values (~2.89 times!) but is also the one and only that, regardless of what your spec is (fury, damnation and temptation), does need enemies to be 1 step away from being finished off (24.99% hp) to not deal bonus damage but... reaching max base damage value! Meanwhile other strikers are already hitting much harder early in the fights because the min and max damage values difference usually is only ~25% and their self-buffs and/or regular bonus damage feats from paragon trees are far superior.

    Warlock is a very special case as our self-buffing is so so bad. Either giving the class actual proper self-buffs or increasing base damage by a large percentage will address that. Warlock hits slower and for less damage than other strikers, that, along with casting times should be priority if it's any true that you guys intend to further tweak SW and TR (with the former being the weakest by a long shot)

    I'd suggest to further set the specs apart when you guys get to address SW specific issues. On top of being given Class Features that actually are buffs, the following things are worth considering:

    Fury: tweaks to bonus damage feats as they currently are very weak. Creeping Death buffed to be 150%+ bonus damage that ticks faster than it does now and do more changes so it actually does something in pvp. This would be our boss killer spec (it already is, it's just underpowered)

    Damantion: revamp it to have much more burst damage than it does now, soul puppet needs to much hit harder than it does on lovr. In longer fights, if running vs a fury spec, it should be far inferior . There you have it, our trash mobs, sabo-like spec (more burst, less sustained dps)

    Temptation: give the spec a way to heal without needing to deal damage, it is one of the major weaknesses it has yet. Increase buffing capacity. What about further tweaking Warlock's Curse utility for teammates? Like giving teammates a mini Creeping Death vs templock cursed targets, say for ~30% of damage dealt in 2 ticks.

    Other suggestion, perhaps simpler than the aforementioned ones could be:

    As SW probably has more DoT attacks than any other striker in the game and it isn't even question if speaking about the Fury spec, it should be one of the best if not the best single target dps in the game and its aoe perhaps should be even lower than it is now. I suggest SW is given a Focused Wizardy (CW heroic feat) treatment, buff our single target dps powers by a large amount and then decrease the effectiveness of aoe powers some, that way you effectively give the class something to be incredibly powerful/best at and the lower damage of our aoe powers would make it so other classes continue to wipe the floor with us (without making us worthless per se, just noticeably inferior) when clearing trash, that would also ensure our overall damage doesn't become much higher than that of other strikers.

    @balanced hopefully you'll consider any of that when you further tweak SW after mod 13.
    Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on
  • patcherrkmpatcherrkm Posts: 127Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    HUGE BUG!!

    On this latest Preview Patch>

    Lesser Curse is no longer triggering the 20% damage increase for allies. Please don't let warlock go live with this broken. All our curses must trigger the soulbonding capstone for us to be considered instead of a DC.

    I do not think that is a bug, more like the way it is intended to work. Soul Bonding damage buff is supposed to be from the main Warlock's Curse, so if you find that this curse does not trigger it you can report it as a bug. I already think with the way it is intended and the fix of the various powers from DC that stacks that a warlock temp will be as good or better than a DO in addition to the AC. Already on live my warlock can perform similarly to an additional DO . .
    A few patches ago, lesser curse did give the 20% bonus for allies. So is it a bug now or was it a bug then?
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @patcherrkm

    The 20% damage buff is supposed to be granted speficically by Warlock's Curse so it working with Lesser Curse as well was most likely a glitch.
    Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    But one that made Templock desirable, I'm faily sure the capstone working with all curses would be better for the class in terms of people wanting it in groups.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • patcherrkmpatcherrkm Posts: 127Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @obsidiancran3 said:
    > But one that made Templock desirable, I'm faily sure the capstone working with all curses would be better for the class in terms of people wanting it in groups.

    #MAKE WARLOCKS GREAT AGAIN
  • duckntrollduckntroll Posts: 95Member Arc User
    SW is in a mess, it need a global/master plan to be fully balanced without loosing it's soul!
    Balance is needed between Hellbringer/Soulbinder and between Fury/Damnation/Temptation and other classes.


    Temptation:Increase buffing capacity.

    No need to look very far (bellow) : As a bug it worked so, why not make it a feature?

    > @obsidiancran3 said:
    > But one that made Templock desirable, I'm fairly sure the capstone working with all curses would be better for the class in terms of people wanting it in groups.
    #MAKE WARLOCKS GREAT AGAIN

    #TEMPTATION SHARING CURSES!

    Temptation: give the spec a way to heal protect without needing to deal damage, it is one of the major weaknesses it has yet.

    Healing is useless once players reach 10/12k due to DPS*LS (how many times must we say it?).
    However "protection" is what is important. There are 3 ways to do that:
    • Reducing damage -> Sharing passive feats [Warding Curse]? Still weak, ...
    • Stoping damage -> As @bloodyspamer suggested: Templock 'heals' on full health allies become Tempoary HP
      • Can be limited: up to the Templock Life Steal percentage of max health
    • Delaying damage -> As I proposed: A part of allies received damages are converted as DoT (Damage Received over Time) on the next seconds
      • It prevent one-kill-shots and make Templock DoT heals more useful
      • Can be limited: the delayed damage part is the Life Steal percentage
      • Can be limited: to big damages like 10% to Max HP (where it's usefull)
    A smart way to do that would be to push the Tempoary HP on Soulbinder (healer/tank), and Delay on Hellbringer (healer/buffer). Making them good synergyzing friends instead of poor competitors.


    Damantion: revamp it to have much more burst damage than it does now, soul puppet needs to hit harder now.

    A simple way would be to allow more than one puppet, no?
    Beeing "smart" again: make lot's of puppets for Hellbringer (AoE), and a few strong ones for Soulbinder (Single Target/tank).


    Fury: tweaks to bonus damage feats as they currently are very weak. Creeping Death buffed

    Indeed, DPS is simple: just increase it enough.


    @balanced hopefully you'll consider any of that when you further tweak SW after mod 13.

    @balanced
    Consider it now. It make so many YEARS that balancing is an OBVIOUS problem.
    At least, did you have some global/master plan for it?
  • merhunesdagon1merhunesdagon1 Posts: 146Member Arc User

    You can also cast [...] while dreadtheft is up, it has to be timed perfectly [...] and u can still res ppl while dt is active

    It's not a bug it's a feature, because SW need it!
    Especially resurrecting people!
    I never said it was a bug, but It actually is tbh lol. You really shouldnt be able to cast KF or HB one second after casting DT but that's the way it works atm. Besides, why would that be significant? DT dps is terrible and whatever minimal buff u get from casting other encounters with it wont put u on any paingiver charts any time soon...
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    So the only question I have now is will we get respecs to accomodate the Mod 13 changes?

    1 would be nice thanks to some of the changes.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Posts: 130Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Healing is useless once players reach 10/12k due to DPS*LS (how many times must we say it?).

    If you read his comment thoroughly and actually spent a second thinking it through he stated healing without dealing damage, aka your statement about "DPS*LS" is pointless because that requires a situation with dealing damage. . .

    What he refers to are situations like in-between fights healing allies back to full health preparing for next battle, or specific boss parts where team has to endure significant damage while there are nothing to strike (for example endboss in MSP)
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Posts: 844Member Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @duckntroll the post of @pyrosorcerer is spot on, he explained the reasons behind my suggestion of giving templock a way to heal without needing to dps.

    Example:

    Low-medium geared party running FBI (heck, even a geared player could still die to poison DoT)= Fight vs Hati starts bla bla Hati poisons members of the team and flies away, teammates drop dead 1 by one, templock can do nothing about it as it cannot generate any heals because Hati can't be damaged.

    @duckntroll I see what you mean by enabling Lesser Curse to proc the 20% damage bonus although @balanced meant to make that work with Warlock's Curse especifically, it is unlikely it would be changed that way. Your point is pretty solid in the sense that would enable templock to buff more when clearing trash mobs.
    Post edited by jaime4312#3760 on
  • As a response to a post up above, somewhere...
    Sure Strike was hitting 750k, and daggers 350k? HAMSTER. Daggers hit much harder than sure strike, even with executioner's style. Also, unless he was running vorpal/fey with a really good buff group, I doubt he'd hit 750k SS.
  • espasbadfistespasbadfist Posts: 39Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    As a response to a post up above, somewhere...
    Sure Strike was hitting 750k, and daggers 350k? HAMSTER. Daggers hit much harder than sure strike, even with executioner's style. Also, unless he was running vorpal/fey with a really good buff group, I doubt he'd hit 750k SS.

    Don't want to argue about that - i did not make a screenshot so i am probably wrong :) Nevertheless from my understanding Daggers usually come early in the rotation of a GWF. Even if they do an amount of damage the primary purpose in my opinion is to start building up damage self buff. I think most GWF will go sth like Daring Shout/Battle Fury, Daggers, Unstoppable, Indomitable Battle Strike. Some may wait until the first round of unstoppable to make sure they have their stacks of Destroyer and Destroyers Purpose up before dealing IBS. I could find it plausible when the daggers came at the very beginning that Sure Strike dealt more damage with all buffs up. But as i said - no screen shot. Maybe i looked on the protocol crossed eyes.
  • duckntrollduckntroll Posts: 95Member Arc User

    @duckntroll the post of @pyrosorcerer is spot on, he explained the reasons behind my suggestion of giving templock a way to heal without needing to dps.

    I guess you both still miss the point...


    Example:
    Low-medium geared party running FBI (heck, even a geared player could still die to poison DoT)= Fight vs Hati starts bla bla Hati poisons members of the team and flies away, teammates drop dead 1 by one, templock can do nothing about it as it cannot generate any heals because Hati can't be damaged.

    There already exist ways:
    • Potions! (Or are your team member too low level for that?)
    • Potions + sharing boons...
    • Pinata...
    • Let them die, and resurect them. (Lathander set is great for that, providing lot's of health back.)
    Thoses aren't as good as a Capstone, what did you expect? A Schweeps?

    Anyway, as I'm still not a mentally ill player, I tried to ignore all of cold run HAMSTER storm as much as I could.

    Globally, I see all your complaints about the impossibility for Templock to heal/Protect when they can't hit as an idiocy.
    Templock ISN'T, will NEVER and should NEVER be a DC. It's something different, and it's wicked Capstone is it's very soul.
    Templock can't heal if he can't hit, so what? It's like that, and work as intended. (It may be a bad design, or not.)
    Teams should adapt or die. (Natural selection.)

    I agrea that without changing it's Capstone, Templock will probably never shine/always underperform.
    Truth is, it's due to the inability of the game to provide large scale battles where Templock are unreachable stars.

    @duckntroll I see what you mean by enabling Lesser Curse to proc the 20% damage bonus although @balanced meant to make that work with Warlock's Curse especifically, it is unlikely it would be changed that way. Your point is pretty solid in the sense that would enable templock to buff more when clearing trash mobs.

    It's a way to make Templock competitive. And it's also a way to make a "curse build" a bit more viable as a "buff build".
    (There is still a need for a viable "CC build", a "tank/survivor build", ...)

    I know @balanced will in all probability not make it work that way. If they had a master plan, they indeed would not work on such ugly (but efficient) fix, and make ALL power usefull (at least for some builds).



    In fact, simply doubling this game difficulty (not just the foes health or damage, but their synergyzing powers, like just a real healer in each mob group) will make all current whining irrevelant. It will make this game a real game, not a Cliker. Where teamates are needed nearly everywhere and so enforcing natural adaptations/reflexions.
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