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Mercenary Boons: Stronghold Equivalent Boons for Individuals
pterias
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
There has been talk recently of possibly nerfing Stronghold Boons, but that is only called for while they are scarce and gated behind other people. They probably shouldn't have been as good as they are, but I don't think nerfing peoples' hard work like that is a good idea, and would be very unhealthy for the player base. The boons offered by high level Strongholds however DO create a huge gulf between players, and it has been made even clearer by including boons in Item Level. It takes a large investment to get more than one character up to qualify for new dungeons without 1000-1500IL in SH boons. It's also IL that can't be made up any other way. I don't think the answer is nerfing SH boons, I think the answer is offering another way to catch up.
Solo players and people in small guilds wish they could make up some of the crazy boon gap. Many people in high level guilds would also like an extra boon plot. I've come up with a system that offers both what they want at the same time.
The idea of SH-equivalent replacement boons for individuals has come up many times, but it's divisive. I've worked on it myself, and while my ideas work for dedicated solo players, no matter how much I try to separate the resource requirements, there is always a conflict between people in guilds having to decide between investing time/resources into a guild or building personal boons. I've ultimately come to a conclusion that I'm not super thrilled with, but I've tried to think of something that can actually work out and be a win-win for everyone.
"Mercenary Boons: Stronghold-equivalent boons for individuals earned primarily through Guild Marks."
There could be additional requirements, like resources from new content, but they shouldn't detract from guild progress.
The following system is one that I've hashed out in broad strokes, and I'd like to know what people think.
TL;DR Overview:
Solo players and people in small guilds wish they could make up some of the crazy boon gap. Many people in high level guilds would also like an extra boon plot. I've come up with a system that offers both what they want at the same time.
The idea of SH-equivalent replacement boons for individuals has come up many times, but it's divisive. I've worked on it myself, and while my ideas work for dedicated solo players, no matter how much I try to separate the resource requirements, there is always a conflict between people in guilds having to decide between investing time/resources into a guild or building personal boons. I've ultimately come to a conclusion that I'm not super thrilled with, but I've tried to think of something that can actually work out and be a win-win for everyone.
"Mercenary Boons: Stronghold-equivalent boons for individuals earned primarily through Guild Marks."
There could be additional requirements, like resources from new content, but they shouldn't detract from guild progress.
The following system is one that I've hashed out in broad strokes, and I'd like to know what people think.
TL;DR Overview:
- Merc boons should be account-based and would be bought with Guild Marks primarily, with other costs TBD.
- Solo players would need a way to donate to guilds to build GMs without having to join them or dumping resources into a dummy guild(s).
- Time gating and cost per boon would be high, and grow per rank (rank 10 would be the most costly).
- Merc boons would go from ranks 1-10, matching the progress and minimum rank to activate found in SH boon structures.
- A player's account could only have 1 offensive, 1 defensive, and 1 utility boon available at a time. To replace one, you'd have to start growing it over from scratch, losing everything put into the old one. This still leaves guilds with a significant advantage.
- Merc boons would be in the same pool as SH boons, so you couldn't have 2 offensive boons on at the same time, for example.
1
Comments
This could take the form of a new campaign, personal housing (my favorite idea!), or something else, but ultimately individual players would be able to work towards solo-based, SH-equivalent boons that I'll call 'Merc boons'. These boons would be built/purchased/progressed primarily by spending guild marks they've acquired by donating to a guild. This allows guild members to continue supporting a guild full force while also building separate options for themselves that fills a need, gives a safety net, adds versatility, or fortifies some alts in a personal and permanent way that can't be lost. Ideally, I think these Merc boons should be account-based so it's something someone can work towards for their alts as well.
Merc boons would go into the same pool as SH boons. You would still only be able to pick one from each category (offense, defense, utility), so for example you couldn't have an offensive SH boon and an offensive Merc boon active at the same time. Merc boons would be limited to 1 offensive, 1 defensive, and 1 utility boon per account. If you wanted to get a different offensive Merc boon, for example, you would have to trash the current one and start over again from scratch. No small task. This would prevent obsoleting the variety of boons a SH offers, while offering a solid alternate option to boons that high level guild members may have available, and giving a potent, narrow boost to active players in small guilds or not in a guild at all.
"Wait, what?! Not in a guild?! How can someone not in a guild get guild marks to build up Merc boons?" We solo players would need to either join a guild, use a dummy private guild, or have an alternate way to donate to guilds we're not a part of. I think adding the ability to donate to guilds you're not a part of, nor in an Alliance with, would be very important so you're not forced into a guild to get Merc boons, and so real holdouts won't just dump tons of resources into a private guild that no one will ever benefit from. That would just be a sad waste and a wasted opportunity. Also, adding Influence to content outside of the SH map would aid this scenario greatly and please pretty much everyone currently in guilds as well.
Merc boons would be ranked up from 1-10 just like the equivalent SH boons. The cost and timing would need to be hashed out, but both should be substantial. This should not be something cheap and easy, that's not my intent at all. I have no expertise in the buying power of a guild mark, so I'm reluctant to speculate on an appropriate cost, but it should be very high (500k-1000k per rank 10 boon on an escalating curve?). Time gating for progress should likewise be substantial, maybe upwards of 12 months per boon to get it to rank 10. The boons should also not kick in at all until ranked up to the equivalent minimum SH boon structure rank, like the Power boon wouldn't start providing a benefit until rank 3, Crit Severity wouldn't kick in until rank 5, etc. This would help keep the SH/Merc systems consistent and scalable with each other.
The main actual currency would be Mercenary Contracts (MCs) that would be acquired with GMs for 10,000 GM. There could maybe be other ways of acquiring them like rare lockbox or T3 dungeon drops. Each rank of Merc Boon would require "X" amount of MCs, "Y" amount of time, and possibly other side materials/money.
An example could look something like this: This example would add up to 55 weeks and 750,000 guild marks per one rank 10 boon out of three. Again, this is a conceptual example, not a final cost schedule.
The available Merc boon options could either draw from all SH boons, a subset of SH boons, some new unique boons (Crit, Recovery, Deflect, Regen(LOL!!!), +AP, +Stamina, etc.), or some combination thereof. There are arguments to be made for each of these approaches. Making all SH boons available make for an even baseline. Only a subset being available may sooth GH 20 folks that feel the store is being given away. On the other hand, unique boons could give those same folks a tasty new treat to chase down.
---
This system isn't my first or favorite idea, but it's one that I think could actually work and be good for all. Solo players who are reluctant to join a guild may feel more secure about the idea and feel like they have less to lose if things go belly up if they can take away a permanent, personal boost from it. It may also give some of us the nudge to give it a try and we might actually like it. If not, hey, managed to narrow the boon gap. Profit! I would really like it if you could donate directly to a guild without being in it, though. Also, solo players at heart who felt like they got strongarmed into a guild when they'd rather not be bothered would have an avenue to get out without losing everything. They would have a new reason to put in a lot of work into the guild on their way out though, to effectively buy back their freedom.
A system like this seems like a win-win.
- It gives solo players and casual/freeloader-type guild members a strong incentive to help out a guild since they can also use that to work towards a personal, permanent, benefit that belongs to them, not just the group.
- GH 20 players would have an extra incentive to help out smaller guilds, like in their Alliance, while chasing down a new toy.
- It would add an extra side benefit to guild members/leaders that are having to do most of the heavy lifting in their guild.
- Dedicated folks in small guilds would be able to stay in their small guild and not suffer so much for it.
There is still the personal dilemma of whether to spend guild marks on Merc boons or goods/equipment, but neither of those choices detract from the progress of the guild itself. I think this extra "selfish" motive for donating would flood the coffers and help a lot of guilds build up faster.---
Optional rules:
These are some alternate approaches that could be considered:
Even if people without a guild could earn them at the same rate, you'd still have a situation equal to the present divide - where everyone would have the merc boons but only those in guilds would have the SH boons.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Lets focus on some facts and some... not so facts.
The "big" guilds have boons small don't. What is your definition of a "big guild"
I know few guilds but in this case I will speak only for the guild I represent. We are a guild of 60-70 (accounts) people. At our top which doesn't happen often we will have 90-100 but after a while we clear some inactive players and we go back to 60-70. The reason we have it like that is because, we like to know the person we invite and we want to avoid drama situations and primadonnas that think they are the best. We keep to ourselves how and what we can do, we don't advertise or in anyway promote it.
Why did I wrote that prologue? So no one will think for even a second that like some other guilds did, we recruited everything under the sun to exploit into donating and grinding and then kick them, or asked for huge donations.
So we have a guild to rank 20, ALL buildings possible at rank 10, Leveled every pvp building to 1 just because we don't like to see ruins, we (and the others guilds of our alliance) assist a LOT the rest of the guilds to level up too (rank 255/260). Our coffer is maxed out in 3-4 items already with more soon to follow. Actually I can destroy all the buildings and rebuild the entire guild with what we have in coffer. On top we have a 2nd guild at rank 12 for the explorer boon which we plan to take to 20. We are more than a year R20.
all that from JUST 60 PEOPLE. NOT 150 NOT 300
We are not big guild by any means. So if we manage to do it, ANYONE can do it and if they cant it's because they lack strong leadership, planning, or the shear will to do it. Pure and simple. So the reasoning of a "BIG" guild doing it, its not true.
Blaming the boons of a guild is like blaming a seasoned player of having r12s and trans enchantments, while you don't. Nothing was given to us. We didnt find the boons by luck or was given my GMs/DEVs to us for free so to make it unfair. Work as we and other guilds did, to enjoy the fruit of your labor. Don't want to put the time.. Fine, but stop complaining about Gaps. If you (plural) were to put HALF the energy you guys put on such posts in this forums, you would already be 20.
"The boons offered by high level Strongholds however DO create a huge gulf between players,"
So are other items too. High rank enchants, bonding stones, legendary mounts and companions purple insignia, Trans wep/armor enchants etc etc. I know, you will say but a player can get those, well SO ARE BOONS. Its a farmable Item. For what it gives, yes it takes time but its totally doable by playing the game. New guilds actually have it easy compared to us. 2x events on main currencies, Siege event, summer festival, marauders, profession tasks to do AD etc and easy kill on dragons now compared to mod 8 when we started.
On top you make it sound like its either R10 boons or zero. If you are in a guild that is at rank 12 you will have rank 5 or 6 boons which is half the way to max... not so much of a "gulf" if you ask me. Unless 4000 power is an issue. well then I guess legendary mounts are an issue too.
And finally one thing. What you propose if I got it right is, for the people who are in small guilds to... stop progressing their guilds to become higher rank and better guilds too, but donate to big guilds... without being in big guild... so to get ONLY personal boons.... I hope that is not the mentality in the guild you are in. On top you want them to be account wide, while ours isn't.... If you are to farm guild marks why don't you donate them to your own guild to progress it and get the R10 boons too in the first place.????
Voodoo
MoF Debuffer
I mostly agree with u but 60 players is imo a rather big guild. Small guild is like 10-15 players maybe less
I think this is probably a bit over complicated and way out of the reach of the current resources available to NW.
Simplified process that could be implemented with current stuff and solve a lot of problems. Give every player access to a "public guild hall". This guild hall would be automated to build certain structures at set intervals - fast enough to make it worthwhile but slow enough to be worth it to be in a good guild. Put a cap on the GH so that it can not exceed say level 17-18 after maybe a year from implementation or so.
This would be fairly easy to implement with the current setup; It would eventually give all players level 17 GH boons while still allowing them to progress in their own guild if they want; It would give unguilded players ways to earn and spend guild marks.....
Better yet, it would be within the reach of existing dev team without much trouble really.
However, have you though about outcome when that player join guild?
game difficulity already tuned down, to point that only top end dungeons bring some challenge.
Here Image of non buffed TR< Do u think he have issues to beat anyone? Do he need extra boosting factor?
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
it won't surprise me at all if they drastically reduce the resource requirements, or start providing other boosts to make people able to catch up. You just can't balance the game around something that only a limited number of people can obtain. Either a more solo option needs to come, or a reduction.
I met him while hunted T-rex for it's fangs.
And this TR is just one of many players I met with such or higher stats..
Pity, haven't met SW with such stats, and seems will not be able do it. Because players abandoning warlock class..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
The divide wouldn't grow, it would just add an alternate way catch up, in a narrower way.
To answer some questions, "Big Guild" may be a slight misnomer, but the intent is a high level guild (mid-upper teens+). Big Guild is just shorthand and commonly used.
Secondly, yeah, other things create gear/power gaps, but these things are only gated behind time and/or money. SH boons are gated behind other people. So we can skip past the obligatory "well maybe you shouldn't be playing an MMO" conversation, there is a world of difference between playing with other people and being completely at the whim of other people. For example: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1233960/safeguards-for-guilds/p1. But it's my apprehension that's "CRAZY".
On to important things like your last point, you are mistaken. I'm not sure where you thought that, but that's the exact opposite of my proposal. There is no reason in the world for someone to break off and start donating to big guilds. Heck, someone could just create dummy guilds to dump donations into if they wanted. My system is designed to allow people to stay in small guilds and improve themselves faster BY donating to their guild. Strongholds and Merc boons would work side by side, not against each other. There may be room for improvement, but they are not meant to be opposed to one another.
So... not having those boons is doing us a favor? What do you think the outcome would be when that player joins a guild?
You want r12s, you need RP and wards, you want items? you have to farm them in dungeons, you want guild boons? you have to build them by joining or creating a guild. That simple. I don't care how you have fun in the game, its different for everyone anyway. 4 Years of playing I never told anyone what to do or what not to do but that doesn't means that if people ask for shortcuts I should just sit and watch. I stated my opinion with facts and I see none of yours as to WHY this thing should happen other than "it takes time" or "it involves other people" so what?.
Is anyone stopping you from making or joining a guild and do your share? Is there an obstacle that prohibits you or others from forming a guild, set a plan and work on it? or join a leveling guild and participate?
As long as the answer is no to the above and in the interest of keeping things fair and equal for all, then this is a bad idea and Its not "defending", its called calling things with their real name.
If this conversation was to take place before the beginning of the Strongholds I would explore it but now after 4 modules, simply no. Yes but the "high level" didn't just happen. A number of people contributed to a cause that made the guild high level. I was just countering the argument that you need a lot of people to do it which also can have the meaning of a big guild. More to the point, you don't need a lot of people. Because guilds didn't take time and /or money to get build right? and what if the "other people" is a factor too? Other people are a factor in a number of things in this game. Run a dungeon? you need other people... buy or sell things?? you need other people... and so on. Its just another activity.
I like to add I never said don't play MMO but I'm always saying its up to us to make a choice and enjoy the benefits or pay the consequence. Do you see any reason for some people to be treated differently than others?
Edit: I read the post you linked and that's a whole other story. You can name 2 or 3 guild that this happen and I can name 100s that this didn't happen. I also know few people that discarded by accident rank 12s or trans enchants.. so don't make any to be safe. You get my point.
The need to push for some safe guards is real and we can ask for that but has nothing to do with the subject. So let me get this clear: First its a given that to get guild marks, you have to donate to a guild coffer to get them so...
a. Be in a guild... farm currencies, influence etc and contribute to the coffer and the guild will get to build the boons and on TOP you will have the personal ones too? unless when you donate towards what you call merc boon you don't contribute to the guild boons.
In that way we have two possible scenarios. . Since you will be doing farming and donating to guild coffer you help progress the guild which will build the boons, which counters the point or will have double benefits (guild and personal boon).. OR... you contribute personally to the merc boon and ignore the needs of your guild mates and don't care for the guild progress completely.
To be honest as a Guild leader, Guild member and a person, I find both unfair and / or selfish.
From lv 70 players start do campaign, unlock boons. Each boon make character stronger.
Also they obtain better gear, refine artifacts. Master own toons abilities. gain combat experience.
Players no need buffs, but need to start use head. Game is not hard, just need to doge and hit in right time.
Players need learn how fight against monsters, not against training dummies.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
After 4 modules, I think it's the perfect time to bring this up. You've had your run, good job, time to spread it around to other... I won't call "play-styles"... I'll call it other "social structures". It just sounds like you're trying to protect your exclusivity, and as a GH20 guild leader I'm sure it's been very intoxicating. This system would encourage participation in guilds anyway by increasing incentives to donate, even by solo players.
You hadn't said don't play an MMO (yet), but it's a common retort any time anything like this comes up, like Masterwork exclusivity as well. Of course guilds take time and effort, no is saying otherwise, but what is so wrong about asking for an ALTERNATE way of putting in that time and effort? And you're comparing being in a "big guild" as being the same as getting a 5-man together to run a dungeon? I think you're selling yourself short.
I think you're still missing a couple critical pieces of this.
1. You don't choose between donating to a guild or your merc boons, you donate to a guild, period, and you can take the guild marks you get from that and (if you want to) invest them into merc boons. The difference your missing is that in a small guild, those donations alone (without at least several dozen other people doing the same) would not get the guild anywhere close.
2. You can benefit from this too! Do you wish you had a 5th boon structure for a bigger variety of boons? Here you go!! This would totally double as that! Again, keep in mind that they don't stack, it's just like having a 5th "roll-your-own" personal boon structure. The only difference is that you get to keep that even if you're not in a guild anymore.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
We had what run exactly? we worked for this in the same way we worked for out chars... you may call it what you like but it is play style and play choices. There isn't any social structures anything above that, its juts a guild.... in a video game.... So I m accused of an argument I didn't make but I will... Nice...
I don't care what you think is common or not, until I say something its not right or ethical to make it sound like I said it (or will say it). The problem here is that things have a way of happening. There is nothing wrong with proposing but some proposals people may say, just doesn't make much sense sometimes and that's why I posted my answer. Unless we assume whatever we say is right be definition. You still haven't come with a valid reason as to WHY this need to happen, We are not talking about how or if... just a why? First we establish the reason and then we establish a way. When you state your "whys" we can continue this. Also the comparison between guild and group was to say that you need people in a lot of cases but I don't see that being a problem. I don't sell myself and not sure what the even means in this argument. I think you start to become personal and not focusing on the topic which is not appropriate .
Now to the practical part.
As you word this you have the case that you DONATE to the guild, the guild will get to BUILD the boons you so like and ALSO get to have your personal ones... So more power creep? That's what this game needs? and all this just because you "might" leave a guild. You might, others wont. don't examine things from a personal only, point of view.
Also as others said, you create or extend the same problem.
Before : Me with guild boons +8000 power and you nothing (hardly the truth, if you are even in a mid lvl guild you will get 3k-5k or more)
After : Me with guild boons +8000 power AND merc +8000 power and you merc 8000 power..
Unless you are proposing that you can use ONE or the OTHER... in which case tell me please.
Why would any guild, build boons in the first place? We will all just build one merc and call it the day. I hope you see where the flaw in all this is. Also please provide a solution for the guilds that have the boons, what will they do with them? the cost and time of building the boons?
I left this for last I will advice you this. Try to avoid getting personal or even hint to insult the person you trying to have a logical argument and therefore promoting your cause or issues. Unless you run out of points and you just want people to get their "popcorn" in which case I wont assist you.
But i m curious as to what exactly are you insinuating that me being a leader was intoxicating? I would like an answer to this before I comment and also please tell us what me being a guild leader has to do with your idea being good or bad? If i was an officer or just a member would that be any different?
There are more guilds in the rank 14 plus range than there are bellow (not counting the personal guilds). There are plenty of guilds that are Rank 20 and soon more to join. If I was even remotely trying to "protect my exclusiveness" I would be against Siege event, against summer festival, against marauders etc. Which I was a big supporter.
Also I'm sure you know what they say about people that assume....
You also need to read better what I wrote just to show you how right you are about me or us trying to be exclusive...
Before the introduction of Strongholds, guilds were seen as a place for friends, to make friends or have an available pool of people to run content with. Other than that they had no inherent value.
During this period I was guildless for maybe 75% of the time. I was fine just pugging around and doing my own thing.
What Strongholds did was to give guilds a larger purpose. An entire guild suddenly had targets, tasks and goals. I joined Ruthless a few months after SH came out and they were at GH5 or 6 I think. They were very focused on progression, influence was mandatory and members were expected to turn up to DF runs. I found that these shared goals and guild-wide events made it easier to get to know people.
We literally worked our butts off and I know our Leaders spent a good deal of real money too and we achieved GH20 3rd on XBox and were the only guild in the first 5 or so to do it without charging joining fees or weekly/daily AD donations. A number of members were actually burned out and took long breaks from the game but we had a sense of achievement through collective effort that you simply don't have from doing something like finishing a campaign.
I believe that was the purpose behind Cryptic introducing Strongholds. To increase player buy-in through collective effort. People that make friends in the game tend to stay in the game longer - so giving players an incentive to join & stay in a guild would result in a net increase in player activity.
Let's not overlook the fact that this also translated into a big money earner for Cryptic, with many players buying SH packs and keys. Given the amount of resources required, I'm sure this made them a ton of money.
As such, the thing to consider is if players can achieve these boons/benefits without focusing on guild progression or group effort, what are the social and economic implications for the game as a whole?
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
pay a price for it - you want a shortcut to that.
And to make things clear - I am an officer in medium sized guild. Medium - cos we have 150 accounts in guild,
but number of active players varies between 20-30 in a prime time. I joined this guild a year ago when it had GH rank 12 and we had about 10-15 active players.Now we have GH 16 and our boons structures are rank 8. Our guild do not require any kind of donations to guild coffer. Those are welcomed, but not demanded. (And you would be suprised how much people can donate if they are not forced to do that, while they see a guild progress). All we want is if you are logged and active in certain time we want you to join and
clear 5 BHEs on stronghold map (takes up to 15 minutes) and stright after to kill dragons (up to 10 minutes).
And no you dont need to log for it - if you are already logged you joining if you are not - you dont. Simple as that.All that guild activities take 45 minutes max as there is a gap between BHEs an dragons witch we use to help lower level players with fast skirmishes etc. Once in a week we do marauders event up to wave 5 - just for influence. If there is siege event we abandon that system, and asking to spend 30 minutes on event map to farm vouchers. All that brings both personal, and guild profits.
In short - absolutely no pressure on members, no donation demand and within a year we have 6k boons.
And to be honest - its not a great deal. Guild gives you something far more important - friendly player base.
That means a shared knowledge, support and avilabilty of players with wich you can create a dungeon party with such good buffs and synergy that those 8k boons are barely significant.
And due to changes intorduced with few last mods, its relatively easier to build guild then ever before as you have more suorces of influence, gems, campaign currencies and AD (guild temporary buildings, new events, crafting).
Belive me or not, but guilds are worth joining for many reasons, and those SH boons (and lot of team work behind them) are not the most important.
In other words, you want to replace, green helm with green helm. So what the heck point to do so?
Next, @pterias, is there are lackedge of Strongholds? I know that there are lot of Strongholds within PC, Xbox and PS platforms. So what the heck u talk about widening access?
Enough to join guild and thats it. All procedure is shorter than 10s.,
And if happens u hate Strongholds, or don't trust Guild leaders, make own guild..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
1) Getting these boons is not easy - sure some people might just join a GH20 and walk into the boons, but most of us worked our tails off, farming events, suffering through pvp that we hate for conqueror shards, running influence on all of our characters to get that last 800 to "hit the button"
2) many of us let our characters fall a little behind for the "good of the guild" we needed gems, and we threw in gems that could have gone into our own refinement. We spent hours walking members through dungeons we didn't need to be in anymore, explaining over and over how the mimic works, typing out guild emails, trying to decide if we need a discord or a FB page. We did this for the good of our people, and our reward is not only the people, but the boons.
3) I don't disagree that SH boons don't belong in PVP unless it's a pvp boon. (follow all those negatives in one sentence!)
4) If you want solo boons then do the campaigns.
5) if you want a set of boons for someone who has never been in a guild, then my recommendation would be this: You take the amount of time that the character has been solo (guildless) and in combat. Once that character has been in combat without a guild for 300 hours of combat time then they get a rank 1 solo boon. 600 MORE hours later they can level that boon up. All the way up, one at a time to the same level as the stronghold boons. As soon as they join a guild - boom, all of that is gone because now they have access to stronghold boons. If they leave the guild they start back at 0 on the "merc" boons. Sure there are ways to take advantage of that (leaving a character somewhere in combat) but I mean, you don't want those people in your guild anyway. You want merc boons - you need to suffer JUST AS MUCH if not MORE than we did to get our stronghold boons. If you disagree that the suffering should be mandatory for merc boons then you are asking for a handout.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
My objection was, as to why this should happen? If the only reason is "I don't want to join a guild blah blah" then sorry but no. There is a certain way and reason as to why things are how they are, (not the time to expand on this). As others mentioned the Stronghold managed to unite and give guilds a goal and a reason. If we are to introduce such a boon then there goes one of the major reasons for a guild to exist and the need to be in one. There is no need to play together or to organize events or to plan for things. On top why exactly should a member of a guild that put time to help his guild to get the boons, will have to do it again to get the merc too, is beyond me.
If we are to do such a major change to the boon system for few people BUT as a result it will interrupt, or change, the way guilds are build and operated it's something that is not to be taken lightly. As an example If we set up a boon system such as the proposed one for the the people that ask it, why would anyone then level or help level guild boons? Since all the members will get personalized boons its redundant to level guild ones. Practically it doesn't make sense. What about the established boons and the effort that was put in (and items)? should we just through them all away because few people don't want to join or participate in guilds?
For me its simple, you want A you need to do (or be in) B and do or farm your x,y,z... things/items. No one is forcing anyone. Simple as that. You want the extra stats? that's the way to get them.
I just think that making conscious sacrifices is part of the game too. If you don't want to do X, you don't get Y. Sometimes there are ways of playing or paying around it, but sometimes you just have to suck up the consequences of your decision.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
@oria1, You are right about making this personal. I promised myself I wouldn't and did anyway. I am sorry. I am. In my defense, this isn't my first rodeo with this topic and the responses are usually aggressively dismissive of the whole idea, me, and anyone like me, but I shouldn't have made assumptions about you specifically and shouldn't have taken it out on you as I don't know you and we haven't discussed this before.
Also, this is something I've worked on for a while and it isn't remotely what I'd prefer. I don't like using GMs either and wish it was completely independent from SHs, but it was suppose to be a middle ground so this wouldn't detract from SHs and would synergize with them. It's a compromise that I hoped would give everyone something and thought would benefit everyone, but instead of constructive feedback like "rank 10 is too much, maybe cap them at rank 8" or "increase the cost", I just got (what I read as) big walls of Grumpy Cat-style "NOPE". I'm not trying to get things cheap or easy, I promise you. In a previous thread, I was entertaining a system that would cost the equivalent of 1/50 the cost of a fully maxed out stronghold (GH20, all other structures R10) just for the equivalent of one roll-your-own personal boon structure. It sounds like that would be more than even an average donator in your guild would have given from Rank 1 onward. I was even willing to entertain 1/20 or 1/10 if it took it. I don't want or care about cheap or easy, I'm just looking for an alternate way to work for them that, hopefully, could benefit everyone. I still think this system, with some possible tweaks, is probably it.
Becky summed up my feelings about guilds pretty well, and I would add that I am allergic to authority and have no interest in (or moreover, explicit negative interest in) having a boss or being a boss. You also got a glimpse at my own inner Grumpy Cat.
As for why do this, I have known many people that don't want to participate in the guild system, but feel they have no choice. I've known others that just quit the game over it. I've talked to a couple people in private that are in guilds, but are afraid to bring this up for fear of getting in bad with their guild. Why should people be strongarmed into something they don't want to be a part of? Do you want people in your guilds that don't want to be there? From a pure numbers perspective, guilds would still offer far more boon options than a roll-your-own boon structure would. That's not even getting into the gear, food, camaraderie, etc.