LOL the only thing that is different from what you posted and the JJ trek movie is Nero wasn't a clone that we know of anyway.
yup ! and they essentially turned Spock into a Trek version of Luke Skywalker (over loosing his mother) right down to the uncontrollable rage factor ! (This is completely out of charactor for Spock ... aside from the 1 in 7 years where Vulcan males have another matter to deal with). Yet look how many rant that the old Trek was pale in comparrisoin to JJ's vision.
IMHO both Trek versions are great in their own right. Each stands tall on their own merrit. (BTW.. for the most part I liked JJ's version .. just the secondary hull of the ship needs an overhaul .. BIG TIME).
Also: the single biggest fact I saw out of place in the entire Nemisis movie was Picards inability to think at the very end ... resulting in Datas death. That seemed a bit out of place. Picard is normally one of the most disipline minded ship captains in the series !!... Oh well .. stranger things have happened in other movies we all enjoy.
Geordi: "That's it. The transporters are dead."
Data: "I'm going to put an emergency transponder on the captain."
Geordi: "So we can find him... THE TRANSPORTERS ARE DOWN YOU IDIOT!"
Data: "Tell the script writer, I'm just doing what they say...."
That large sucking sound you hear is the plot hole...
Yeah, I'm with you on Insurrection, its not a bad movie at all. Though then again, most criticism I saw was along the lines of 'it was just like an episode of the show, and not 'movie' enough'.
Nemesis, though, the biggest problem was that they were trying too hard. The biggest issue I had with the movies after Generations was that they scrapped 7 years worth of television character development, and turned it into a movie about the Picard/Data friendship (trying to mirror the Kirk/Spock friendship) with special guest appearances by the other characters.
That worked okay with TOS because TOS was always either the Kirk/Spock show, or at its broadest, the Kirk/Spock/Bones show, with guest appearances by the others. So the movies were true to the TV formula. But TNG was much more of an ensemble show, with much more complex and interesting relationships between the characters. In Generations, an effort was made to stay true to that, but afterwards, they seem to have decided that since the TOS movies did better box office, we need to parrot that formula. And so you lost what made TNG work for TNG fans.
Recently, in interviews, some of the actors from Voyager and DS9 have come out and talked about how their characters were changed/mutilated as a result of the same trends from Berman and co., and they had to fight like hell to try to preserve the integrity of their shows.
Geordi: "That's it. The transporters are dead."
Data: "I'm going to put an emergency transponder on the captain."
Geordi: "So we can find him... THE TRANSPORTERS ARE DOWN YOU IDIOT!"
Data: "Tell the script writer, I'm just doing what they say...."
That large sucking sound you hear is the plot hole...
Shortly after that, the Picard/Kirk debate was settled once and for all when Picard spent his last major big screen moment frozen with indecision and cowering and Data had to save the day. For that alone, any fan of TNG should hate Nemesis.
Shortly after that, the Picard/Kirk debate was settled once and for all when Picard spent his last major big screen moment frozen with indecision and cowering and Data had to save the day. For that alone, any fan of TNG should hate Nemesis.
Ok wow...I read everything up to when D. Stahl slapped everyone in the face!! All I can say is when I first saw the movie in theaters, I came out wowed and strangely satisfied. After I bought the dvd and watched it 32 times I got ****ed and felt like alot of the plot was kinda like pulling the wool over my eyes, like Star Trek was saying "ok we have no more good ideas so we'll get a fan to write the script and get a cowboy director who doesn't even like trek, to basically make trek commit suicide. The problem I really have with this film is that after all the blubbering about how it used old plot lines and had really bad acting in the first scene with the Romulan senate, was that THIS is the LAST TNG movie!!!??? THIS is where they end it all!!?? It just left a bad taste in my mouth. That's why I think fans hate NEMESIS, because we were ripped off and NEED a better ending for our TNG characters. And in my mind I always thought that the last TNG movie had to have Q! nuff' said!
ST is ST. Sometimes great, sometimes inspiring, sometimes laughable and sometimes terrible.
But doesn't that reflect life?
I believe Nemesis gets a bad rap because it borrowed alot from Wrath of K! There were many inconsistencies (as IS trek - but which we always find objection to) and most importantly (and as a reflection of all TNG era movies)... Movie Picard just wasn't TV Picard ideologically... like it was too much a forced action film at times when action sequences on TV which often featured high suspense and tension were often carried out without explosions, or pointless macho 007- one liners.
Over the top villain hellbent on genocide for no reason other than his personal anger.
Who has a Superweapon.
Could say the same about Khan. Add to that Ricardo Montalban was one of the few actors who could be more over the top uber-dramatic than Shatner.... and that's not easy.
I thought Nemesis was ok. The space battles were superb and it did have several great moments. It was a whole lot better than the last J.J. fiasco for sure.
it made no sense to me why these 600 people were getting to decide the fate of billions when their planet could have heralded advanced medical techniques and cures for people. I also didn't understand why the Federation, with all of its diplomatic experience and know how, couldn't have found a political resolution to the conflict between the people on the planet and the Son'a. Especially when the stakes were so massive.
I understand they were trying to make a point about colonialism, but it was ham fisted and came across poorly. Kind of like that TNG episode where they tried to talk about drug abuse.
The central conflict is this:
There's a planet with unique irreplaceable resources, that would have considerable strategic value (like uranium). The problem is that the planet while technically within federation space (US teratory) is occupied by a primitive people that don't want to leave (native american reservation), and the resource extraction process would kill them if they stayed. Starfleet (the US government) chose the practical solution which is to relocate those people, to another less valuable planet.
Picard, however believes that forcibly relocating them is morally wrong and against the laws of the Federation, and tries to draw public attention to this. However because of the location of the planet the Enterprise is out of contact with the rest of the Federation which affords the Son'a the opportunity to silence him before he can expose their operation to an open debate that could end badly for their agenda. During the ensuing battle the Son'a attempt to deploy their collector (which would kill the Baku) so Picard destroys it to save lives.
It's an examination of history, and a story about someone who's morals are strong enough to take up arms against his own if they violate the principles he's sworn to protect. There's also a level of environmental awareness added in (is it alright to destroy the marvelous planet of youth for the advancement of a war effort?), and a coming of age story in the Son'a who
Could say the same about Khan. Add to that Ricardo Montalban was one of the few actors who could be more over the top uber-dramatic than Shatner.... and that's not easy.
I thought Nemesis was ok. The space battles were superb and it did have several great moments. It was a whole lot better than the last J.J. fiasco for sure.
Khan had a planet-killing weapon in a standard Federation light cruiser with a smart but inexperienced crew.
Shinzon had a ship with two shield arrays (that remained active under cloak) that could fire while cloaked (and had more than twice as many weapons as the Enterprise), was build by a race of mine slaves and shock troopers and had an inbuilt superweapon that could wipe out life on a whole planet.....
Khan had a planet-killing weapon in a standard Federation light cruiser with a smart but inexperienced crew.
Shinzon had a ship with two shield arrays (that remained active under cloak) that could fire while cloaked (and had more than twice as many weapons as the Enterprise), was build by a race of mine slaves and shock troopers and had an inbuilt superweapon that could wipe out life on a whole planet.....
Who were hellbent on killing the enemy of their slave masters...
i enjoyed nemesis until picard rammed the enterprise E in to the shinzor ship.
actually ... IMHO that was one of the better parts of the movie ! After all of the fighting, the weapon of doom on board the Reman ship .. and it comes down a game of chicken ??? The graphics were great !
however, IMHO we have not seen a really good "final" TNG movie that was fitting for the cast and crew of the "E"
What did nemesis do? Bring more content to the star trek universe, that's how I see it. It's not the best Star Trek movie, but there are always things to like. I mean the Remans and the Scimitar were badass, Ron perlman rocked the viceroy, Deanna was hot, Data sang blue skies, Romulan uniforms looked awesome, Commander donatra , and a very good book series followed.
Only thing that bugged me was that the movie at times was too action driven instead of story driven (directors fault) and that we didn't see any D'deridex warbirds.
I have to admit though, that insurrection felt as an episode I had already seen, everytime I think of the movie, the only thing that comes to mind is Gilbert O Sullivan and data's quote 'Sadle up, let's lock and load!'
I wanted to Throw hat into this thread and say I really liked Nemesis. As someone who does not follow the books anymore, I really don't know what happened after the movie except for what happens later in the JJ Abrams universe.
With that said, for me, data died. The movie ended with B4 wanting to learn more about data. I thought the entire plot was well done, data finally became human in the eyes of everyone upon his death. To say data died and was brought back to life through B4 is uneccssary is silly because I can point you to the search for Spock. :P
I get the distinct impression that they wrote Nem with the intention of there being one more TNG movie... one to end things on a more positive note.
The problem I had with Nem overall relate to the motivation of Shinzy. He should have at the very least gone after those who had made him this way. GO AFTER THE ROMULANS.
I can see no more fitting TREK moment than the our favorite characters putting it all on the line to save their arch-enemy from a horror they created... and possibly bringing about a reconciliation/peace between the powers. THAT would have been a fantastic end to the TNG series... peace with the Romulans.
Would have made NuTrek even more bittersweet when we find out less than a decade after the Great Peace in the Alpha Quadrent the Romulan worlds are decimated/wiped out by a hypernova event.
Of course I have a life of my own I don't need complete and total creative control of All Things Trek like the majority of "fans" I encounter online. TREKBBS is rife with them. I don't even "hate" the less than great movies. I've been doing tabletop RPG for so many years it's second nature to me to see what is on screen as "source material" for my own personal universe.
To impose my "vision" of how Trek should be on the masses is selfish and immature. The people who do this (with such HATE no less!) are the ones ruining Star Trek not the directors. Not the writers. Its the UNREASONABLE FANS.
Personally, I find Nemesis to be a "meh" film with a load of problems. IMHO, one of the downfalls of the film was that it just missed too many opportunities that the TNG series had presented over its run. Examples include:
At least mentioning the underground Reunification Movement that was first mentioned in "Unification." It didn't have to be the central or even a big part of the movie, but it could have been mentioned as a path the Romulans took to present peace overtures to the Federation. After all, the Federation's most famous ambassador (Spock, btw) is on the planet, and the Romulans are the biggest opportunists out there; why wouldn't they take advantage of both?
Exploring the relationship between the Romulans, Federation, and Klingons in the aftermath of the Dominion War. All three powers fought together in a protracted and costly war for the first time *ever,* and even if that didn't bring a lasting alliance between the three, I find it hard to believe that everything went back to the status quo it was at the start of TNG. There should at least been some mention of continuing diplomatic relations between the three powers, even if they were kind of circling each other.
The Romulans as villians in the first place. The Romulans are one of the least used "classic" major villians of Star Trek and Nemesis should have been their time to shine. It was even indicated that they were going to be "the Big Bad" of the film, at least initially. Instead, they basically play second fiddle to the Remans and their human clone leader, and at the end turn against him.
Related to the misuse of the Romulans, if they needed a "Kahn-like" villian, they didn't need to create a new character when Sela was right there waiting in the wings. She was a familiar character to fans, had proven on in both of her appearances in "Redemption" and "Unification" to be a formidible foe for Picard, only needed a bit of exposition to make her familiar to the general movie audience, and most importantly, Denise Crosby was interested in reprising the role. The reason she isn't in the movie at all? Berman said the cast was already too crowded.
Further exploration on the splitting up of the senior officers of the Enterprise. Worf had already gone off on his own career as the Ambassador to the Klingons (and, IMHO, it would have been a great shout out had he been in a variation of the ambassadorial robes worn by John Schuck's character in ST IV and VI) so he could have been explained as being there just for the wedding, and hitched a ride on the Enterprise to Betazed and back to Qo'noS. It's clear that Riker and Troi (Mr. and Mrs. Troi ) were leaving so Riker could command the Titan; IMO, like Sulu in ST VI, Riker should have been on his new ship already, tagging along with Picard. I believe there was a cut scene that suggested that Crusher was leaving as well to head up Starfleet Medical (again); that would have been nice to have been mentioned at the end. Picard was obviously staying on the Enterprise, leaving only Data and LaForge's fates uncertain (although all indications are that they were staying aboard) Hell, after 15 years of being stuck at Lieutenant Commander, Data should have finally recieved his promotion and even taken Riker's place as Picard's "Number One," instead of giving him a death wish.
In short, it should have been Star Trek VI, not Star Trek II, that provided the inspiration for Nemesis.
I, too, was meh about Star Trek: Nemesis. I had always thought a more 'Trek' solution would have been Picard and Riker 'castling.'
Riker is POed at the psychic officer for what he did to Troi.
Picard is POed at Shinzon.
Both are too emotionally wrapped up in their opponents to act reliably, so they castle. Picard will take on the Reman psychic dude, and Riker, with his penchant for unorthodox space tactics, will take on Shinzon. It shows the teamwork part of Star Trek, and the reason why you have an ensemble: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Now, I agree with a lot of the complaints put forward in the past gaggle of pages. Others I can understand where they came from even if I don't agree. Nemesis definitely would have worked better as the second to last TNG film for one, and Shinzon's motivations (while present) should have been outlined more.
Still, I like Nemesis. I loved Insurrection. (Despite a few cringe worthy moments) I loved Star Trek XI. I've seen it at least twenty times. (Current record goes to IV though, which I've seen at least twice that - it came out on VHS about a week before I got the chicken pox) I mean, more Star Trek is very rarely a bad thing. We as the rabid fans of Trek need to learn to just relax a bit and enjoy these things without getting enraged by the mistakes and problems.
2 things though about Nemesis - Data had an emergency transporter, not a transponder. Yay for miniaturization. Also, the Remans had just effectively conquered Romulus, why would they want to simply kill their former tormentors when they could make them suffer first?
Do we really want the reputation of the most unpleasable fanbase out there? In some quarters we already are.
Personally, I like them all. I can still even sit through The Final Frontier. But what do I know?
:cool:
How to simply enjoy your entertainment? While I can't sit through The Final Frontier, I can understand that not everything is made to please me, and I don't need to berate, or belittle those involved with the project simply because I can't find the same enjoyment as others.
I guess there was the whole incident with the death threats to the author who killed Chewbacca. At least we aren't that bad.
So far, I haven't heard anything about that in the Star Trek ranks (definately the case for the Transformers folks), but it may have happened, who knows?
I've always assumed that it's because it feels kind of slow. It feels like all the talking and exposition and non-combat parts in Nemesis just drag on. There just wasn't enough action in it and honestly, the whole clone plot wasn't believable. That being said, the excellent combat portions bring it up to Number 6 on my ranking of the Trek movies.
Yeah, I'm with you on Insurrection, its not a bad movie at all. Though then again, most criticism I saw was along the lines of 'it was just like an episode of the show, and not 'movie' enough'.
Nemesis, though, the biggest problem was that they were trying too hard. The biggest issue I had with the movies after Generations was that they scrapped 7 years worth of television character development, and turned it into a movie about the Picard/Data friendship (trying to mirror the Kirk/Spock friendship) with special guest appearances by the other characters.
That worked okay with TOS because TOS was always either the Kirk/Spock show, or at its broadest, the Kirk/Spock/Bones show, with guest appearances by the others. So the movies were true to the TV formula. But TNG was much more of an ensemble show, with much more complex and interesting relationships between the characters. In Generations, an effort was made to stay true to that, but afterwards, they seem to have decided that since the TOS movies did better box office, we need to parrot that formula. And so you lost what made TNG work for TNG fans.
Recently, in interviews, some of the actors from Voyager and DS9 have come out and talked about how their characters were changed/mutilated as a result of the same trends from Berman and co., and they had to fight like hell to try to preserve the integrity of their shows.
I disagree abiout First Contact; it had the 'A' story wityh Picard, Lilly and Data on the ship; and the 'B' story with Riker, Geordi, and the rest ion the planet making sure the warp flight happened - so there was a lot for all the characters to do - and a decent amoount of cinimatic things they wouldn't have the budget for in a TV episode (the Borg Cube battle, and taking a spacewalk on the hull, etc.
Generation WAS a TV episode (complete with the LARGEST PLOTHOLE I ever saw in Star Trek. One of the first things that occurs in the film is Picard hearing about his nephew's death on Earth in an accidental fire; and he's REALLY broken up and distraught - HOWEVER whenn he's IN the Nexus, and knows he can exit ANYWHERE is time and space; does he EVEN CONTEMPLATE going back to save his nephew (not to mention with what he knows he canb stop Soran and the Duras sisters cold before ANYTHING happens)? Nope. He finds Kirk, and goes back 10 minutes to stop Soran. Even if you say 'Picard would never violate the Temporal Prime Directive to that degree; the fact they didn't even have hiim consider the possibilty after showing how much teh nephews death affected him showed Braga and Moore did indeed suffer 'franchise fatigue' and just going through the motion connecting the story dots in a cliche way, as usual.); on a motion pictire budget.
For me Generations would in fact be the second worst TNG film after Nemesis.
And (as a TOS fan since 1969) I have to say, I LOVED JJ Abrams Syat Ytrk 09 as is disgarded entirely, the Politically Correct senabilities that the ffranchise had suffered under the 24th century series (from TNG to VOY; and even though DS9 tried, you more often than not had Sisko snapping back into 24th century PC form - with a few notable exceptions )
ST09 got Star Trek back to what made it great in the first place , interesting but flawed caracters working towards an ideal but never quite reaching it; and having a good old adventure while doing so. No moral sermons that turn out to be 100% cprrect by the end - just some good characters and a bit of adventure. Loved it.
lol political resolution?
The Son'a were not interested in a resolution, they or at least their leader and his loyal followers wanted vengeance.
To them Starfleet was nothing but a tool to get them what they wanted, longer life and the death of their kin who had exiled them.
Yeah I know, its kind of a stupid villain, isn't it?
Comments
yup ! and they essentially turned Spock into a Trek version of Luke Skywalker (over loosing his mother) right down to the uncontrollable rage factor ! (This is completely out of charactor for Spock ... aside from the 1 in 7 years where Vulcan males have another matter to deal with). Yet look how many rant that the old Trek was pale in comparrisoin to JJ's vision.
IMHO both Trek versions are great in their own right. Each stands tall on their own merrit. (BTW.. for the most part I liked JJ's version .. just the secondary hull of the ship needs an overhaul .. BIG TIME).
Also: the single biggest fact I saw out of place in the entire Nemisis movie was Picards inability to think at the very end ... resulting in Datas death. That seemed a bit out of place. Picard is normally one of the most disipline minded ship captains in the series !!... Oh well .. stranger things have happened in other movies we all enjoy.
Data: "I'm going to put an emergency transponder on the captain."
Geordi: "So we can find him... THE TRANSPORTERS ARE DOWN YOU IDIOT!"
Data: "Tell the script writer, I'm just doing what they say...."
That large sucking sound you hear is the plot hole...
Nemesis, though, the biggest problem was that they were trying too hard. The biggest issue I had with the movies after Generations was that they scrapped 7 years worth of television character development, and turned it into a movie about the Picard/Data friendship (trying to mirror the Kirk/Spock friendship) with special guest appearances by the other characters.
That worked okay with TOS because TOS was always either the Kirk/Spock show, or at its broadest, the Kirk/Spock/Bones show, with guest appearances by the others. So the movies were true to the TV formula. But TNG was much more of an ensemble show, with much more complex and interesting relationships between the characters. In Generations, an effort was made to stay true to that, but afterwards, they seem to have decided that since the TOS movies did better box office, we need to parrot that formula. And so you lost what made TNG work for TNG fans.
Recently, in interviews, some of the actors from Voyager and DS9 have come out and talked about how their characters were changed/mutilated as a result of the same trends from Berman and co., and they had to fight like hell to try to preserve the integrity of their shows.
Shortly after that, the Picard/Kirk debate was settled once and for all when Picard spent his last major big screen moment frozen with indecision and cowering and Data had to save the day. For that alone, any fan of TNG should hate Nemesis.
No, that debate was settled in Generations.
Undiscovered Country was an awesome movie and a great farewell to the original crew.
Can't think of anything that would have made that movie better.
But doesn't that reflect life?
I believe Nemesis gets a bad rap because it borrowed alot from Wrath of K! There were many inconsistencies (as IS trek - but which we always find objection to) and most importantly (and as a reflection of all TNG era movies)... Movie Picard just wasn't TV Picard ideologically... like it was too much a forced action film at times when action sequences on TV which often featured high suspense and tension were often carried out without explosions, or pointless macho 007- one liners.
Could say the same about Khan. Add to that Ricardo Montalban was one of the few actors who could be more over the top uber-dramatic than Shatner.... and that's not easy.
I thought Nemesis was ok. The space battles were superb and it did have several great moments. It was a whole lot better than the last J.J. fiasco for sure.
The central conflict is this:
There's a planet with unique irreplaceable resources, that would have considerable strategic value (like uranium). The problem is that the planet while technically within federation space (US teratory) is occupied by a primitive people that don't want to leave (native american reservation), and the resource extraction process would kill them if they stayed. Starfleet (the US government) chose the practical solution which is to relocate those people, to another less valuable planet.
Picard, however believes that forcibly relocating them is morally wrong and against the laws of the Federation, and tries to draw public attention to this. However because of the location of the planet the Enterprise is out of contact with the rest of the Federation which affords the Son'a the opportunity to silence him before he can expose their operation to an open debate that could end badly for their agenda. During the ensuing battle the Son'a attempt to deploy their collector (which would kill the Baku) so Picard destroys it to save lives.
It's an examination of history, and a story about someone who's morals are strong enough to take up arms against his own if they violate the principles he's sworn to protect. There's also a level of environmental awareness added in (is it alright to destroy the marvelous planet of youth for the advancement of a war effort?), and a coming of age story in the Son'a who
Khan had a planet-killing weapon in a standard Federation light cruiser with a smart but inexperienced crew.
Shinzon had a ship with two shield arrays (that remained active under cloak) that could fire while cloaked (and had more than twice as many weapons as the Enterprise), was build by a race of mine slaves and shock troopers and had an inbuilt superweapon that could wipe out life on a whole planet.....
Who were hellbent on killing the enemy of their slave masters...
actually ... IMHO that was one of the better parts of the movie ! After all of the fighting, the weapon of doom on board the Reman ship .. and it comes down a game of chicken ??? The graphics were great !
however, IMHO we have not seen a really good "final" TNG movie that was fitting for the cast and crew of the "E"
I agree completely. I do wish there was one final "farewell" that was well done for the cast and crew of the Enterprise E.
Only thing that bugged me was that the movie at times was too action driven instead of story driven (directors fault) and that we didn't see any D'deridex warbirds.
I have to admit though, that insurrection felt as an episode I had already seen, everytime I think of the movie, the only thing that comes to mind is Gilbert O Sullivan and data's quote 'Sadle up, let's lock and load!'
With that said, for me, data died. The movie ended with B4 wanting to learn more about data. I thought the entire plot was well done, data finally became human in the eyes of everyone upon his death. To say data died and was brought back to life through B4 is uneccssary is silly because I can point you to the search for Spock. :P
My theory is that there are two dstahls and they tag-team the forums.
The problem I had with Nem overall relate to the motivation of Shinzy. He should have at the very least gone after those who had made him this way. GO AFTER THE ROMULANS.
I can see no more fitting TREK moment than the our favorite characters putting it all on the line to save their arch-enemy from a horror they created... and possibly bringing about a reconciliation/peace between the powers. THAT would have been a fantastic end to the TNG series... peace with the Romulans.
Would have made NuTrek even more bittersweet when we find out less than a decade after the Great Peace in the Alpha Quadrent the Romulan worlds are decimated/wiped out by a hypernova event.
Of course I have a life of my own I don't need complete and total creative control of All Things Trek like the majority of "fans" I encounter online. TREKBBS is rife with them. I don't even "hate" the less than great movies. I've been doing tabletop RPG for so many years it's second nature to me to see what is on screen as "source material" for my own personal universe.
To impose my "vision" of how Trek should be on the masses is selfish and immature. The people who do this (with such HATE no less!) are the ones ruining Star Trek not the directors. Not the writers. Its the UNREASONABLE FANS.
In short, it should have been Star Trek VI, not Star Trek II, that provided the inspiration for Nemesis.
Solid gold.
Riker is POed at the psychic officer for what he did to Troi.
Picard is POed at Shinzon.
Both are too emotionally wrapped up in their opponents to act reliably, so they castle. Picard will take on the Reman psychic dude, and Riker, with his penchant for unorthodox space tactics, will take on Shinzon. It shows the teamwork part of Star Trek, and the reason why you have an ensemble: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Now, I agree with a lot of the complaints put forward in the past gaggle of pages. Others I can understand where they came from even if I don't agree. Nemesis definitely would have worked better as the second to last TNG film for one, and Shinzon's motivations (while present) should have been outlined more.
Still, I like Nemesis. I loved Insurrection. (Despite a few cringe worthy moments) I loved Star Trek XI. I've seen it at least twenty times. (Current record goes to IV though, which I've seen at least twice that - it came out on VHS about a week before I got the chicken pox) I mean, more Star Trek is very rarely a bad thing. We as the rabid fans of Trek need to learn to just relax a bit and enjoy these things without getting enraged by the mistakes and problems.
2 things though about Nemesis - Data had an emergency transporter, not a transponder. Yay for miniaturization. Also, the Remans had just effectively conquered Romulus, why would they want to simply kill their former tormentors when they could make them suffer first?
Do we really want the reputation of the most unpleasable fanbase out there? In some quarters we already are.
I kinda thought it was because they basically copied Star Trek Wrath of Khan almost exactly...
I think, if anything, Star Trek fans have some healthy competition from the Star Wars and Transformers fan ranks.
How to simply enjoy your entertainment? While I can't sit through The Final Frontier, I can understand that not everything is made to please me, and I don't need to berate, or belittle those involved with the project simply because I can't find the same enjoyment as others.
...Okay, you might be right there. I personally don't want to be linked with the Transformers fandom in anything - positive or negative.
I guess there was the whole incident with the death threats to the author who killed Chewbacca. At least we aren't that bad.
So far, I haven't heard anything about that in the Star Trek ranks (definately the case for the Transformers folks), but it may have happened, who knows?
I disagree abiout First Contact; it had the 'A' story wityh Picard, Lilly and Data on the ship; and the 'B' story with Riker, Geordi, and the rest ion the planet making sure the warp flight happened - so there was a lot for all the characters to do - and a decent amoount of cinimatic things they wouldn't have the budget for in a TV episode (the Borg Cube battle, and taking a spacewalk on the hull, etc.
Generation WAS a TV episode (complete with the LARGEST PLOTHOLE I ever saw in Star Trek. One of the first things that occurs in the film is Picard hearing about his nephew's death on Earth in an accidental fire; and he's REALLY broken up and distraught - HOWEVER whenn he's IN the Nexus, and knows he can exit ANYWHERE is time and space; does he EVEN CONTEMPLATE going back to save his nephew (not to mention with what he knows he canb stop Soran and the Duras sisters cold before ANYTHING happens)? Nope. He finds Kirk, and goes back 10 minutes to stop Soran. Even if you say 'Picard would never violate the Temporal Prime Directive to that degree; the fact they didn't even have hiim consider the possibilty after showing how much teh nephews death affected him showed Braga and Moore did indeed suffer 'franchise fatigue' and just going through the motion connecting the story dots in a cliche way, as usual.); on a motion pictire budget.
For me Generations would in fact be the second worst TNG film after Nemesis.
And (as a TOS fan since 1969) I have to say, I LOVED JJ Abrams Syat Ytrk 09 as is disgarded entirely, the Politically Correct senabilities that the ffranchise had suffered under the 24th century series (from TNG to VOY; and even though DS9 tried, you more often than not had Sisko snapping back into 24th century PC form - with a few notable exceptions
ST09 got Star Trek back to what made it great in the first place , interesting but flawed caracters working towards an ideal but never quite reaching it; and having a good old adventure while doing so. No moral sermons that turn out to be 100% cprrect by the end - just some good characters and a bit of adventure. Loved it.
Yeah I know, its kind of a stupid villain, isn't it?