I will only support this IF in addition to the dreadful AGT PJ's. All NPCs also get matching fuzzy bunny slippers and a old timey floppy sleeping cap. To complete the ensemble.
It's Star Trek. We're supposed to be in pajamas.
Five series and 11 movies. Space pajamas in every one of them.
In case I rambled on too long, I wanted to point out that Voyager's "Timeless" reused the combadge and was set slightly before the other glimpses, making it four glimpses that seem to agree.
Yeah, I didn't even think of that till I read your post. It does indeed show the combadge was implemented before the uniforms. It also shows the producers had a clear idea about what was to be used, and when.
Added: It's kind of like Jack Crusher wearing the TOS movie uniform with the TNG Combadge.....it sets a pattern that combadges change before uniforms. If I remember correctly, the TNG movie combadge was implemented before the uniforms also.
Five series and 11 movies. Space pajamas in every one of them.
Bite your tongue. The TWoK uniforms didn't just come out of thin air. There where featured in several of the movies and look the most uniform like, of anything offered before or sense.
I get that, but a lot of people find the current design hideous. No matter what they pick someone's not going to like it. I'd just soon see them choose something canon for the era, whether I really like the look or not.
There will always be someone that doesn't like a proposal or idea, and I admit that I don't like this idea for NPCs. Heck, I thought those uniforms were terrible when I first saw AGT on TV. TRIBBLE canon in this regard...its just (in my opinion) an ugly uniform, a waste of time for the devs and a change that I don't see many players caring about. The people in the forums are a small percentage of the playerbase, so we'll never know for sure on that last one, but it is how I personally feel about it. Call it a gut feeling.
It may be just me, but I'm not kidding...when I first saw those uniforms on screen I thought "Holy TRIBBLE, thats ugly with a capitol 'Ug'." I literally couldn't wait for the "future" segments of AGT to end so I wouldn't have to look at them anymore. I'm almost embarrassed that such a thing causes such a reaction for me, but the thought of seeing those uniforms all over the NPCs in ESD (or worse yet, in my ship) upsets me. Though I'll get over it if they actually do it. Or not, though if not I'll just find another way to pass my time.
The "Timeless" combination was a sort of transition period between the TNG movie uniforms and the AGT ones. Would fit from the year, too. I'm actually using that for my current crew in STO as well.
I will only support this IF in addition to the dreadful AGT PJ's. All NPCs also get matching fuzzy bunny slippers and a old timey floppy sleeping cap. To complete the ensemble.
...and teddy bears instead of weapons in their weapon slots.
Bite your tongue. The TWoK uniforms didn't just come out of thin air. There where featured in several of the movies and look the most uniform like, of anything offered before or sense.
And they're cool. But (you won't see me play this card often) Roddenberry hated them for looking so militaristic and modded them to look more Pajama-like when they showed up in TNG for flashbacks by removing the belt and sweater and paring down the insignias. And even then, the crewman were one buttflap away from being in long underwear PJs.
And, hey, that uniform is free! The code was distributed like crazy and it's zero Cryptic Points in the C-Store.
And they're cool. But (you won't see me play this card often) Roddenberry hated them for looking so militaristic and modded them to look more Pajama-like when they showed up in TNG for flashbacks by removing the belt and sweater and paring down the insignias. And even then, the crewman were one buttflap away from being in long underwear PJs.
And, hey, that uniform is free! The code was distributed like crazy and it's zero Cryptic Points in the C-Store.
I won't play this card often either, mostly because I'll probably be flamed out of the universe for it, but Roddenberry had some pretty bad ideas along with his good ones.
There will always be someone that doesn't like a proposal or idea, and I admit that I don't like this idea for NPCs. Heck, I thought those uniforms were terrible when I first saw AGT on TV. TRIBBLE canon in this regard...its just (in my opinion) an ugly uniform, a waste of time for the devs and a change that I don't see many players caring about. The people in the forums are a small percentage of the playerbase, so we'll never know for sure on that last one, but it is how I personally feel about it. Call it a gut feeling.
It may be just me, but I'm not kidding...when I first saw those uniforms on screen I thought "Holy TRIBBLE, thats ugly with a capitol 'Ug'." I literally couldn't wait for the "future" segments of AGT to end so I wouldn't have to look at them anymore. I'm almost embarrassed that such a thing causes such a reaction for me, but the thought of seeing those uniforms all over the NPCs in ESD (or worse yet, in my ship) upsets me. Though I'll get over it if they actually do it. Or not, though if not I'll just find another way to pass my time.
I agree 100%
If all we have to look forward to in the future are polyester skin tight unitards and jumpsuits. Bring on the apocalypse.
AGT qualifies as one of the unholy trinity of worst ST uniforms. Sharing its spot with TMP and the first season of next generation spandex.
I see no reason to replace one ugly thing with another ugly thing.
I still think the best idea i've seen is to give us client-side options that let each of us choose what uniform sets we see on NPC's (and possibly other players)
Sure, I didn't mean to argue its availability to the playerbase - heck, I use one of those designs myself for my Hazard Team character + BOs. It just feels ... I dunno, inappropriate to see it everywhere. It's not the Starfleet I'm used to.
Wow, we use nearly identical "combat" uniforms. The only differences being that I use the underarm color selection for a dark variant of the different department colors and have yet to equip mine with the Mirror universe knife sidearm.
I really would just like to see some consistency with the NPC's ingame. They all seem to be wearing different uniforms and with or without kits/armor. The AGT uniforms do fit the general time period so I can see it happening.
I see no reason to replace one ugly thing with another ugly thing.
I still think the best idea i've seen is to give us client-side options that let each of us choose what uniform sets we see on NPC's (and possibly other players)
One of those "ugly" things is recognizable, gives the setting context, doesn't draw the eye unduly towards NPC extras, and doesn't have the negatives associated with using NPCs with collars in pop-up dialogues.
I still think the best idea i've seen is to give us client-side options that let each of us choose what uniform sets we see on NPC's
Makes an excellent compromise! Id love to see all the NPC's look uniform. Even if it's not the AGT but something else, I think all the NPC's wearing the same clothing would add some believability to places such as ESD. IMO, the NPC's are like fashion models, they all wear something different.
One of those "ugly" things is recognizable, gives the setting context, doesn't draw the eye unduly towards NPC extras, and doesn't have the negatives associated with using NPCs with collars in pop-up dialogues.
It's only recognizeable to those of us who watched trek religiously. The average gamer who checks out STO won't recognise it other than seeing it as a uniform. It's about as brand recognised as Nike adult diapers.
As for your negatives, those are just as subjective as the negatives i see in the AGT uni's. They might draw your attention, but i barely notice them at all.
It's only recognizeable to those of us who watched trek religiously. The average gamer who checks out STO won't recognise it other than seeing it as a uniform. It's about as brand recognised as Nike adult diapers.
As for your negatives, those are just as subjective as the negatives i see in the AGT uni's. They might draw your attention, but i barely notice them at all.
The negatives of the AGT uniform for you are tied to what they look like, not how they work with or against the game design.
huh? you dont like collars so that works against game design?
It's still a judgment call.
Look, I don't think the AGT uniforms are the best looking.
I think they hide their efficient use of polycount well, they're extremely plain and don't draw attention to themselves, they're easy to spot from a distance, they don't lose much on low graphics settings and they're a bit plain/boring, which I think NPCs should be in order to make players pop out more.
It's not that I think that they're the best looking uniform. I think they're efficient... and I think they visually date the game's setting for hardcore Trek fans, who I think are the game's demographic that's being courted, moreso than the traditional gaming community.
In fact, I'd say the gaming community has largely passed on the game.
The idea pre-launch was, I think, to draw in lots of gamers and casual gamers who might not be Trek fans while benefitting from a side influx of Trek fans. "Make a good game that happens to be Star Trek" was something I heard more than once.
Everything I've seen since Dstahl took over seems to suggest that's flipflopped. Instead, they're courting hardcore Trek fans as the main demo, with the proviso that they'll generally deviate in the name of gameplay so as not to alienate gamers. Now, it's, "Make a Star Trek entertainment portal, keeping in mind that the medium for that is a game."
I'd definately have to disagree with making NPC's more plain to make players stand out, in the game's i've played when NPCs wre generic it was a big complaint among the community. The Witcher suffered from this and due to the complaints it was one of the bigger additions to their enhanced edition and in their advertising media for witcher 2 they tout how versatile their generic npc system is. It seems to me that games have been trying to get away from this for many years now.
As for pandering to us trekkies, that's where the idea for letting us choose what uni's we see comes in rather than just making it all AGT. As this very thread shows, not all trekkies want to see that, regardless of how canon it may be. With the choices it panders to all of us much better. Want AGT uni's? *click* done, want TNG uni's? *click* done, want B01 uni's? *click* done, and so on.
Subjectivity of liking the look or not, the AGT uniform is canon for this time period. We see it used in both the AGT episode and the Endgame episodes from Voyager, both set roughly 30 years in the future: AKA, STO's time period. There's nothing wrong with adding some canon to the game, especially in such a minor way, IMO.
No, actually it's not canon for this period. As we covered in the whole Gal-X issue, that episode happened in another reality, and a time period that may have been erased. It happened before 2409 (like the 2380's) which means that the uniform most likely came, and went, by now, if it ever came at all.
No, actually it's not canon for this period. As we covered in the whole Gal-X issue, that episode happened in another reality, and a time period that may have been erased. It happened before 2409 (like the 2380's) which means that the uniform most likely came, and went, by now, if it ever came at all.
You'll notice I also mentioned Voyager: Endgame, which is set 33 years in the future, which puts it right around STO's timeline. They're using the exact same uniform, as they are in DS9's The Visitor, which would be a little further into the time line then 2409.
You'll notice I also mentioned Voyager: Endgame, which is set 33 years in the future, which puts it right around STO's timeline. They're using the exact same uniform, as they are in DS9's The Visitor, which would be a little further into the time line then 2409.
Again, a timeline erased from existance. Future timelines are not canon in substance. The canon period is up until Nemesis. No time travel and what if's.
Again, a timeline erased from existance. Future timelines are not canon in substance. The canon period is up until Nemesis. No time travel and what if's.
That's your opinion. I see 3 canon episodes set in the future which are all using the same uniform. That's good enough for me; and certainly more canon then the zero-canon uniforms Cryptic decided to have them wearing.
That's your opinion. I see 3 canon episodes set in the future which are all using the same uniform. That's good enough for me; and certainly more canon then the zero-canon uniforms Cryptic decided to have them wearing.
It's not opinion. It's logic. If events are changed in the past, events in the future no longer happen in the order they did, and some no longer happen.
It's cryptics game, they make their own canon. And so far it's been far better than any of ST's so called fans have come up with. That's an opinion. They have better uniforms in this game than any of the shows, save DS9 when they had the dominion war.
Cryptic has tried really hard to satisfy the leechs who are fans of the IP and killing it, and gamers of MMO's, They've done a good job, and the uniforms of the past are a casualty i'm grateful for.
It's not opinion. It's logic. If events are changed in the past, events in the future no longer happen in the order they did, and some no longer happen.
First of all you should be a big enough Trek fan to know that timelines don't get erased. They simply diverge and exist along side each other. Second of all, arguing that AGT isn't canon is pointless when you can go into the game right now and see the Galaxy X being used. Cryptic's clearly incorporated it into its own soft canon version of the game. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see the uniforms also being used. And finally, calling fans "leeches" is grounds for an Infraction. You can't use derogatory names against a group simply because they disagree with your own opinions.
It's not opinion. It's logic. If events are changed in the past, events in the future no longer happen in the order they did, and some no longer happen.
It's cryptics game, they make their own canon. And so far it's been far better than any of ST's so called fans have come up with. That's an opinion. They have better uniforms in this game than any of the shows, save DS9 when they had the dominion war.
Cryptic has tried really hard to satisfy the leechs who are fans of the IP and killing it, and gamers of MMO's, They've done a good job, and the uniforms of the past are a casualty i'm grateful for.
Don't you mean uniforms of the future?
I'm not really sure if Paramount considers those uniforms canon since they are from possible timelines. They might....but the real reason you saw them beyond the episode AGT was probably budget. They had pre-existing "future" uniforms and used them again.
I liked the uniforms in DS9 most out of all of others. Even the ones in the first few seasons. But I wouldn't request to have all NPCs wear them just because I liked them...especially when theres nothing really wrong with the NPC's appearances now. SF changes uniforms more than a teenage girl with credit card in a clothing store anyway.
First of all you should be a big enough Trek fan to know that timelines don't get erased. .
Cosmic_One, I really never have seen you say something like this. Usually your posts are well reasoned. But I gotta say I hate it when someone says "You ought to be a big enough fan" or things like "You're not a trek fan if *add your own reason for saying it*". Its not a fair argument. I've been a fan of Star Trek for 40 years and there are a lot of things I can criticize the entire series on.
As far a timelines....hell, you could both be right. But even if it is canon, its not always a good thing. Some trek canon is downright stupid, and usually when anyone says so they get dogpiled for not being a true fan. Its a peeve of mine.
EDIT: But you are right about calling fans leeches. I know what Cav meant by it, but he or she should probably have used less inflammatory language.
AFAIK, the only true cannon uniforms would be from Nemisis, and those are over 50 years old by now.
The next runner up would be what I think its called "soft cannon?" And that's the uniform from the comics which set up the backstory for the last Trek movie. These uniforms are probably 30 or so years old.
Then of course there is the AGT uniforms which were only seen in future timelines. Although these are from those timelines, they are the closest uniforms to STO's timeline
Comments
Define "cool effect", because to me having the canon uniform for this time period is cool.
It's Star Trek. We're supposed to be in pajamas.
Five series and 11 movies. Space pajamas in every one of them.
Yeah, I didn't even think of that till I read your post. It does indeed show the combadge was implemented before the uniforms. It also shows the producers had a clear idea about what was to be used, and when.
Added: It's kind of like Jack Crusher wearing the TOS movie uniform with the TNG Combadge.....it sets a pattern that combadges change before uniforms. If I remember correctly, the TNG movie combadge was implemented before the uniforms also.
Bite your tongue. The TWoK uniforms didn't just come out of thin air. There where featured in several of the movies and look the most uniform like, of anything offered before or sense.
There will always be someone that doesn't like a proposal or idea, and I admit that I don't like this idea for NPCs. Heck, I thought those uniforms were terrible when I first saw AGT on TV. TRIBBLE canon in this regard...its just (in my opinion) an ugly uniform, a waste of time for the devs and a change that I don't see many players caring about. The people in the forums are a small percentage of the playerbase, so we'll never know for sure on that last one, but it is how I personally feel about it. Call it a gut feeling.
It may be just me, but I'm not kidding...when I first saw those uniforms on screen I thought "Holy TRIBBLE, thats ugly with a capitol 'Ug'." I literally couldn't wait for the "future" segments of AGT to end so I wouldn't have to look at them anymore. I'm almost embarrassed that such a thing causes such a reaction for me, but the thought of seeing those uniforms all over the NPCs in ESD (or worse yet, in my ship) upsets me. Though I'll get over it if they actually do it. Or not, though if not I'll just find another way to pass my time.
The "Timeless" combination was a sort of transition period between the TNG movie uniforms and the AGT ones. Would fit from the year, too. I'm actually using that for my current crew in STO as well.
PS: pajamas are a defining element of Trek.
...and teddy bears instead of weapons in their weapon slots.
And they're cool. But (you won't see me play this card often) Roddenberry hated them for looking so militaristic and modded them to look more Pajama-like when they showed up in TNG for flashbacks by removing the belt and sweater and paring down the insignias. And even then, the crewman were one buttflap away from being in long underwear PJs.
And, hey, that uniform is free! The code was distributed like crazy and it's zero Cryptic Points in the C-Store.
I won't play this card often either, mostly because I'll probably be flamed out of the universe for it, but Roddenberry had some pretty bad ideas along with his good ones.
I agree 100%
If all we have to look forward to in the future are polyester skin tight unitards and jumpsuits. Bring on the apocalypse.
AGT qualifies as one of the unholy trinity of worst ST uniforms. Sharing its spot with TMP and the first season of next generation spandex.
I still think the best idea i've seen is to give us client-side options that let each of us choose what uniform sets we see on NPC's (and possibly other players)
Wow, we use nearly identical "combat" uniforms. The only differences being that I use the underarm color selection for a dark variant of the different department colors and have yet to equip mine with the Mirror universe knife sidearm.
I really would just like to see some consistency with the NPC's ingame. They all seem to be wearing different uniforms and with or without kits/armor. The AGT uniforms do fit the general time period so I can see it happening.
One of those "ugly" things is recognizable, gives the setting context, doesn't draw the eye unduly towards NPC extras, and doesn't have the negatives associated with using NPCs with collars in pop-up dialogues.
Shhh... TMP uniforms are dstahl's favorite.
Makes an excellent compromise! Id love to see all the NPC's look uniform. Even if it's not the AGT but something else, I think all the NPC's wearing the same clothing would add some believability to places such as ESD. IMO, the NPC's are like fashion models, they all wear something different.
It's only recognizeable to those of us who watched trek religiously. The average gamer who checks out STO won't recognise it other than seeing it as a uniform. It's about as brand recognised as Nike adult diapers.
As for your negatives, those are just as subjective as the negatives i see in the AGT uni's. They might draw your attention, but i barely notice them at all.
The negatives of the AGT uniform for you are tied to what they look like, not how they work with or against the game design.
huh? you dont like collars so that works against game design?
It's still a judgment call.
Look, I don't think the AGT uniforms are the best looking.
I think they hide their efficient use of polycount well, they're extremely plain and don't draw attention to themselves, they're easy to spot from a distance, they don't lose much on low graphics settings and they're a bit plain/boring, which I think NPCs should be in order to make players pop out more.
It's not that I think that they're the best looking uniform. I think they're efficient... and I think they visually date the game's setting for hardcore Trek fans, who I think are the game's demographic that's being courted, moreso than the traditional gaming community.
In fact, I'd say the gaming community has largely passed on the game.
The idea pre-launch was, I think, to draw in lots of gamers and casual gamers who might not be Trek fans while benefitting from a side influx of Trek fans. "Make a good game that happens to be Star Trek" was something I heard more than once.
Everything I've seen since Dstahl took over seems to suggest that's flipflopped. Instead, they're courting hardcore Trek fans as the main demo, with the proviso that they'll generally deviate in the name of gameplay so as not to alienate gamers. Now, it's, "Make a Star Trek entertainment portal, keeping in mind that the medium for that is a game."
As for pandering to us trekkies, that's where the idea for letting us choose what uni's we see comes in rather than just making it all AGT. As this very thread shows, not all trekkies want to see that, regardless of how canon it may be. With the choices it panders to all of us much better. Want AGT uni's? *click* done, want TNG uni's? *click* done, want B01 uni's? *click* done, and so on.
No, actually it's not canon for this period. As we covered in the whole Gal-X issue, that episode happened in another reality, and a time period that may have been erased. It happened before 2409 (like the 2380's) which means that the uniform most likely came, and went, by now, if it ever came at all.
Again, a timeline erased from existance. Future timelines are not canon in substance. The canon period is up until Nemesis. No time travel and what if's.
It's not opinion. It's logic. If events are changed in the past, events in the future no longer happen in the order they did, and some no longer happen.
It's cryptics game, they make their own canon. And so far it's been far better than any of ST's so called fans have come up with. That's an opinion. They have better uniforms in this game than any of the shows, save DS9 when they had the dominion war.
Cryptic has tried really hard to satisfy the leechs who are fans of the IP and killing it, and gamers of MMO's, They've done a good job, and the uniforms of the past are a casualty i'm grateful for.
Don't you mean uniforms of the future?
I'm not really sure if Paramount considers those uniforms canon since they are from possible timelines. They might....but the real reason you saw them beyond the episode AGT was probably budget. They had pre-existing "future" uniforms and used them again.
I liked the uniforms in DS9 most out of all of others. Even the ones in the first few seasons. But I wouldn't request to have all NPCs wear them just because I liked them...especially when theres nothing really wrong with the NPC's appearances now. SF changes uniforms more than a teenage girl with credit card in a clothing store anyway.
Cosmic_One, I really never have seen you say something like this. Usually your posts are well reasoned. But I gotta say I hate it when someone says "You ought to be a big enough fan" or things like "You're not a trek fan if *add your own reason for saying it*". Its not a fair argument. I've been a fan of Star Trek for 40 years and there are a lot of things I can criticize the entire series on.
As far a timelines....hell, you could both be right. But even if it is canon, its not always a good thing. Some trek canon is downright stupid, and usually when anyone says so they get dogpiled for not being a true fan. Its a peeve of mine.
EDIT: But you are right about calling fans leeches. I know what Cav meant by it, but he or she should probably have used less inflammatory language.
The next runner up would be what I think its called "soft cannon?" And that's the uniform from the comics which set up the backstory for the last Trek movie. These uniforms are probably 30 or so years old.
Then of course there is the AGT uniforms which were only seen in future timelines. Although these are from those timelines, they are the closest uniforms to STO's timeline