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Been in about 10 pvp arena matches the last two days. Playing Fedside. Vice Admiral. They seem incredibly one sided... the Klingons say "Oh well, we are just a million times better than you..." which could be true, I admit. In those 10 games... 7 came out to 1/15, 2 where 0/15 and the remaining was the star of the show at 2/15. Utterly brutal, short, nasty little games that where entirely pointless and not the slightest bit of a "good game". A "good game" is where there is an actual fight, with victory at least being challenged.
I've not seen anything close to that, I've just seen Feds effortlessly get blown up. No 'gg'.
Now, here are a few things I'd be willing to admit. I see a lot of Fed players do things that strike me counter-productive to life, such as the escorts flying off the handle first thing and charging into the Klingons groups, and die instantly. Or Cruisers full-impulsing right into a similar mob with predictable results. But I've also been in groups where we Feds did more or less stick together and the results where the same anyway.
I, personally, generally don't die a whole lot. But I think I've only ever gotten a single kill in a match and most matches my guns never penetrate enemy shields. But at least I'm not greatly contributing to the enemy kill count...
So I guess I'm asking Federation players specifically, I assume that at least some Fed pvpers get kills and win matches.. how? Do you just never play in anything but a pre-made group? Something else?
I've not seen anything close to that, I've just seen Feds effortlessly get blown up. No 'gg'.
Now, here are a few things I'd be willing to admit. I see a lot of Fed players do things that strike me counter-productive to life, such as the escorts flying off the handle first thing and charging into the Klingons groups, and die instantly. Or Cruisers full-impulsing right into a similar mob with predictable results. But I've also been in groups where we Feds did more or less stick together and the results where the same anyway.
I, personally, generally don't die a whole lot. But I think I've only ever gotten a single kill in a match and most matches my guns never penetrate enemy shields. But at least I'm not greatly contributing to the enemy kill count...
So I guess I'm asking Federation players specifically, I assume that at least some Fed pvpers get kills and win matches.. how? Do you just never play in anything but a pre-made group? Something else?
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Honestly the first few times you pvp its going to be frustrating. In the end team work is what matters most. I still play my fed anough to know how little of it there is in fed land... but there are a few that play well. If you get in a match with Hale... team up.
If you are not sure what all the counters are... go through and learn as many as you can. If you are playing klinks learn the following.....
Aux to Damp Counters Shock wave.
Evasive and spin a facing can save your life.
Emergency power to Shields with a Transfer Shield Strength will get you close to shield cap.
Brace for Impact... if you shield starts dropping hit that too.
Mostly stick with it... and you may not always get an answer but it if you ask the guy that just blew you up what you did wrong... they might just tell you.
Have fun.
.... forget it, its star trek and resistance is futile.
Sadly your not the only fed player to experience both the incredibly one sided PvP or have the klingon players give you the Learn to play speech. There are already several threads running on the same topic so I won't go down the route they have gone as its not productive.
Theres only so much you can do to improve the situation. Try different set ups (ships, officer abilities and your own skill sets) and don't be afraid to sit there in a battle and watch what the klinks do. You'll get hammered but your getting hammered anyway. You'll start to learn styles of play and particularly what certain groups and individuals do, whose squishy and who isnt, and you can try and come up with ways to get kills. Thats about the only thing that makes pvp interesting any more.
If you find you getting ganked by focus fire or by the 5 billion pets on the screen, put your feet up, watch some tv and wait for the game to end. Sod all you can do about it.
You can try and join a fleet and play premades if thats your thing, but if your a normal person and play pug's then it's a case of get used to it. Watching and figuring out tactics that work for you will get you some kills in some games.
You can get upset about mechanics in the game. You can complain when friends fly together against your PuG. I don't know a lot, but I can tell you that this doesn't really help improve your situation.
May not be Klinks but you can practice technique at least. And it can be fun also
Until extremely recently, players spamming about Klingons being OP was in fact the opposite. They flew significantly more fragile ships with only 1 or 2 neato tricks up their sleeves which, if countered, got them slaughtered.
Ask about any klingon, and they usually will tell you this: "Oh yeah, we easily win 39 out of 40 pug matches, but the 40th, well, that one we don't loose by a little - we stand no chance at all"
Now, two recent changes may have turned the balance: Carriers are more powerful, and a new T5 battle cruiser was released that is better than what they used to have. Whether this has overpowered Klingons or not is hard to say with any certainty - I think we all first need to learn to counter the new threat, and once we have learned to, then we can gauge this issue more effectively.
So much for the long-TRIBBLE intro into the subject matter
=====
General tactics you need to employ:
- Stay together, and heal each other. Klingons (and anyone else experienced in pvp) will call out targets even over chat text and focus fire someone. If everyone else doesn't start supporting that ship, it will die. Once it dies, your entire team is weaker. This is particularly true of escorts.
A cruiser that just sits there patting himself on the back because no other ship can kill it 1 on 1 and only has the ability to heal itself is a waste of space that is overall weakening the team. Doesn't mean a cruiser has to be a healer, it does mean it has to have SOME healing to support vs focus fire, and the battle awareness to use it.
- Escorts and science ships are your greatest assets, and yet if not supported they are your greatest weakness. If nobody else (say the escorts.. but also the cruisers) doesn't fire at the enemy the science ship just shockwaved and stripped of buffs, you just wasted a huge opportunity. If you don't support your escorts then they might as well not even fight, they don't stand a chance and will have to rely on the FAR less effective run the heck away and come back later method of fighting, which means for much of the match you'll be fighting at un-even odds.
- Don't full impulse into battle unless you can make a difference. For example, a defiant cloaked full impulsing to get back into the Fray, popping a weapon battery and decloaking to assist just helped out. Don't be afraid to regroup.
- Don't be afraid to take leadership of the group if it turns out to not have any. Add everyone into the group, explain your basic strategies, target raptors first, birds of prey second.
- You HAVE to carry anti cloak and anti movement debuffs when fighting birds of prey. Among others: sensor scan, charged particle burst, tractor beam, warp plasma, chroniton mines, target engines, gravity well, photonic shock wave, etc. -
You clearly don't need to all of the above in the team, but if you have none, you just made the fight insanely harder.
- Carry a second set of bridge officers (or a 3rd) to adapt to different strategies: Enemies using shockwave to stun you a lot? Use auxiliary to dampeners. Scatter shot/Fire at will vs "Pets" like photonic fleet. (May also be the key to deal with those carriers, we'll see) Etc etc. All powers have counters.
- Don't go for the bait. The one klingon (usually a carrier, or a cruiser, but sometimes a single bird of prey setup for tanking and little to no dps) will appear as the single "lone" target. Don't chase after it, tell your party to stay together. By all means start shooting at it, but always keep in mind this isn't your real target. As soon as the raptors decloak, thats the real alpha strike, that's when you have to heal their target, and when you all have to switch to your real target.
- Beware of chasing Klingons. It could be an ambush, so only chase them when it's clear they're very hurt, and you have a way to counter their cloak (say by disabling it before
- A bird of prey (or any other cloaking ship) can't heal shields while cloaked (usually.. stupid bugs), nor can they activate healing powers, so best they can do is pop a hazard emitters as they're cloaking so they heal a bit while cloaked. Oher Klingons CAN heal the cloaked enemies however. It also often reveals their position though, so you now have a good place to drop that charged particle burst or sensor scan
- Don't listen to anyone whining about power X, learn to counter it, and carry counters for it, or make sure someone else does.
Ok enough rambling, there are many more tips but this is already long enough that not even I will re-read it to proof it :cool:, so I just leave you with:
- Make friends, this is an MMO after all. Join a fleet, or start paying attention for the competent players and ask to be friends with them, and try to team up again.
Er, I never said anything bad about the Klingon players, except that they are very good. You hear the L2P a lot, but there are plenty of Klingon players that are good chaps.
Well, PvP in STO is team based, at least it is for the Klingons. If my team isn't being part of a team, is making no effort to be part of a team, and the last 15 matches have been within 2 points of 0/15 every game... I would think some expectations would be quite reasonable. I agree there is no point venting -- but I didn't.
... which is precisely what is going on... the problem is, I can listen to advice, I can take advice. I do both. None of it helps. 0/15 every game.
Well, here is what I've learned recently. Here is some good, solid, truly helpful advice I got from some Klingons I was chatting with. DON'T PUG. Its a waste of time and you'll end up frustrated. It doesn't matter how good a job of your role you are doing if your the only one doing it. If your team isn't really a team then your headed to 0/15. Play with friends or with a PvP fleet or don't play PvP. Thats my opinion anyway
They are also very experienced, because they have almost no PvE content. The average Klingon player at Captain level has already won over 1000 PvP matches. The average Fed at that level has played pvp once - in the match you're currently in
You can PuG and win. I have plenty of screen shots that show it but that doesn't mean that "I" won. You don't have to fly premade, but there aren't many other ways to ensure that you have someone decent to fly with.
When you team with the other feds you should PM them come here my child. lol
Joking really love the Handle.
Klingon players also have fed alts.Some play feds to better understand their strengths/weaknesses
& also, it gets boring after awhile destroying Feds 15-0, so we go hop on the blue side & fight Klingons. If you run into a klingon who seems a good sort in a match, maybe send him a friend request.ask his opinion on your build. ask to team up with him when he's flying his fed.heck for that matter, go spend a day in Ker'rat. challlange some klingons to 1 vs 1.ask advice. make friends.And most importantly, join a good active fleet.
STO is 10 times better when you're in a good fleet
I became a much better player after i dropped my single player PVE mentality, & realized that other players have good ideas too. usually better than mine.:o
thats why they always beat me:eek:
I started a similar thread a while ago, and went through the same troubles. Now, instead of having a klingon blowout 9 out of 10 matches it seems to be about 3 out of 4. That means 1 out of 4 is a good close fight, win or lose.
They do this hit and run TRIBBLE that draws out a match far too long, and doesn't allow any action on the fed side other than dying. They swoop in, pop 1 or 2 in the first strike, then run away and regroup. If all klinks did these tactics, which are wildly successful, PVP would be totally futile. The guy is a known troll on this board too.
Spawn killing is another big problem with the klinks. Why that's fun to them, I don't know. They pull the same TRIBBLE in the ker'rat system. The only motivation I can see is taking joy in ticking off feds as much as possible.
FvF is better, in my opinion. More courteous players, better odds of having a good fight, and no huge advantage given to one side.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
What point are you trying to make? Obviously there are far less blowouts in FvF, versus FvK, and Klingons have the first strike and ability to organize/plan a strike. HUGE advantage.
Are you arguing to the contrary, or just making a stupid remark in a futile attempt to say its all about skill?
You know, it doesn't really take much to stop an alpha strike from klinks, just fast reflexes and investment in the proper bridge officer skills.
Call it stupid if you want. I can't make anyone see what they don't want to see.
and some luck. Usually I have my shields extended on the poor little target and my heals coming before the first torpedo volley hits, but its usually not enough. Feds don't seem to run very much when things get hot. I LOVE out running klinks in my cruiser, and rarely die more than twice in a 15-0 klink blowout. That does mean I'm not doing my job as a healer though.
Like I've said, I've gotten much better in recent weeks. Mostly thanks to repetition, as each match is the same thing over and over again. Getting more and more of those carriers now, which is a refreshing change. A new quagmire is figuring out how to beat someone with a billion pets flying around and shields that seem impenetrable with out all 5 of us focusing fire.
I completely agree with you. I just feel the klingons have the edge for reasons I stated above. Nothing a good skilled team can't counter, but the fact is we are countering their advantage. The odds will always favor them being able to organize and strike first.
Its like a game of dodgeball with the opposing team starting with all the balls, and choosing who to strike while you're blindfolded until the first ball is thrown.
Playing as a fed I had 2 heals thrown on me in 5 games. I was top healing and damage so perhaps I didn't need them often... however I was far from undefeated and there was plenty of times my Sci Ship was in the middle of 4 or 5 friendly cruisers that didn't send me no love. (perhaps they knew it was me) lol
Playing as a klink I can't count the number of hazard emitters engi teams ect I got hit with. One friendly raptor even hit me with a tac team to clear a Fire on my mark.
In fairness even though I was pugging on my klink I have played with most of the klingons in those matches before.
My point is the Klingon side of things is a small group. There really are only a handful of consistent klink players. In pretty much any klink pug 80% of the team have flown together before. Its to the point that most of us know each others builds. Its not that we have some great big advantage given to us by the game. The small community is the advantage, I will always try to save and heal the guy I see pugging ever day at 3pm... and he will hit me with that tac team and clear my nasties.
As harsh as it sounds... feds need to heal there own better... they need to understand sometimes the best way to help a friendly is to simply attack there target... or the guy coming for there backside. You all need to learn to be wingmen... most klinks seem to get it.
5 Arena matches in a row, where my KDF group (my new toon, Captain level) just got senselessly slaughtered.. I mean.. I outscored every Klingon I was teamed with.. Mostly all the Feds as well.. But they just kept dying over and over.. Every single match ended like 3-5/15
C'mon.. Im in a Vor'cha (God I love that ship) for crying out loud..
Did all the sucky Feds go KDF recently or something?
Luck simply doesnt apply here.. Its extremely rare a premade isnt able to counter an alphastrike..
You KNOW (or have a very good idea) what the first target is going to be.. Obviously not the Defiant Refits, since they will be cloaked.. Usually not the cruisers either.. That leaves Fleet/Advanced escorts, with SciVs as a secondary.. That means theres not a whole lot to pay attention to..
Consider this:
1: You should primarily use resist buffs.. Hazard Emitters, Transfer Shield Strenght, Aux2SIF, Extend Shield, AP:Delta.. Ofcourse you should have some heavy heals as well, but these should be used sparingly.
2: Use these resist skills *before* the target is halfdead, starting with the shieldspecific buffs
3: Think fast when you use your heavy heals (Eng Team) - Will the target live without that 13k hullheal? Do he only have some 5k damage? In both cases, the use of ETeam3 is a waste..
4: Running? You should be the first into the fight, and the last to leave it.. You can use evasive to redeploy (ie: get out of the sub5k optimum cannon range, or move to opposite side of the fight), but you should never run away, since your little friends will die in short order without healing.
Perhaps they have heard we are Uber Strong... and CRUSH our enemies; there here for the laminations of the orions. lol
Yes, the KDF can plan and organize..
SO can the Feds (hint: Check out a little skill called "Mask Energy Signature") - The Fed ships are generally superior (Although the gap is getting smaller - Now KDF have a great DPS cruiser in the Vorcha - Just need a healing cruiser and a dedicated Science (coming soon))
Defiant ~ Raptor
Negh'var ~ Sovereign
Vor'cha ~ Excelsior
Orion Cruiser ~ Star Cruiser
Gorn SciV ~ LR Sci (I think)
Nausicaan Raider ~ Fleet Escort
Hah!
I enjoy fighting you in Ker'rat - Tough fights are good tbh..
You always seem to have friends nearby, but then again, Ker'rat isnt a 1v1 Zone (unless you happen to fly Fed)
To the op a lot of good advice here, however this is stuff it sounds like you at least are already aware of.
I was having the same experience as you lvl'in my first Fed (and having been a decent klingon i found this difficult to take) What i did back then was take charge and throw out the group invites early, then i would use a macro to throw out the information i wanted to impart.
I was a tac in a sci ship in the early tiers then i went cruiser. I know that the key to beating the kdf is heals, lots of heals and the only way to ensure there is enough is to take them yourself. My macros basically said stay within 10m for some heals, 5m for full heals (HE was only 5m back then) and ffs heal each other saving your heals will not save you.
From then on tho i didn't win all the matches i won a lot more. The fed pugs biggest failure was, and for teh most part still is, not sharing heals, even the small heal from an escort on player can tip the fight, once they realise you will help them if they need it you will be surprised how much more confident they are at throwing out the heals.
However not makig it clear in team chat doesn't seem to work alone, just throwing out heals tends to go unrecipricated. In the tiers leading upto RA5 i would evn win matches whn we had 3 feds v 5 kdf.
tl;dr
Communicate and heal each other
This post is so full of win..
Comments in green.
Forgive me, but you are completely wrong about this. Some very talented and skilled players have tried to tell you this already, but if you don't want to learn and just harp on your Klingons have the advantage rhetoric, then that's fine, stay in mediocrity and unable to handle them.
However, it would be nice if you didn't feel the need to try to stop other kind of players, the ones that actually want to learn, from doing so.
This. And no, it's not ONE person stopping the alpha strike, it's an entire team stopping the alpha strike.
Just one example:
"Decloaking klinks"
One Charged Particle Burst, extend shields on target, target engines, shock wave, transfer shield strength on target, tractor, gravity well - in oh about maybe 10-15 seconds or so later...
"5 - 0 Feds"
That's just a small look into how the 15-0 Fed vs Klink matches develop, by the way, even against those "invincible decloak and run tactics" you keep talking about.
@ the OP
Warem gave you many good pointers in his previous post.
As to the above, I am reminded of a VA / LG arena match where the Feds were crushed and one of them started a fairly typical in zone rant about how Klinks were OP.
There was a pause, and then this same guy types " Oh hey, where can I spend these Badges of Excellence?"
Cheers,
Waff
I wonder if he knows the secret of Nacho?
I'm partial to the "Driven before you part" due to Orions being so jiggly in all the right places.:)
But god forbid you pug it against a carrier team. That **** is just unfair.
PUG vs PUG, klinks are at an advantage, it is obvious from how many times I win on klink side compared to fed. The only way to level the playing field is to find people you work well with, and go in with them.
And ALWAYS, ALWAYS join a team.
The amount of matches I have joined with people either declining, ignoring, or having teams turned off is disgusting. Worse is, that if I don't invite people to team, more often than not there is no team.