Stormstryke, we get it. You have a rage on for RPers.
You've got an unfair advantage over me, because you can put people on your ignore list, and they can't bug you. My problem currently has no solution. If I had a way to make people who bugged me invisible, I would be very happy.
Until then, I would like to see this feature removed, because it annoys lots of people (not just RPers) and has no practical use.
You know the smoke grenades thing, my fleet had fun with them on Risa, on a beach where it was only the fleet members at the moment. So you want it taken away from that too? You can't just do it in one place and not the other. Asking for removal of the annoying also affects those not annoying. And the point is... if that can be applied to them, it could also be applied to other areas including things you do, right?
Just an observation but in my experience I've found that the people who defend griefers usually turn out to be the ones who are doing the griefing in the first place.
And I have found that people who ask for certain things to be taken away from everyone just because it might disrupt their role playing abilities are fairly uptight "pieholes".
If people are blocking hallways or doors they are immature, the best way to counter this is to ignore them, immature people want attention (read our forums for greater insight into that). Immature people will go away when they realize you are not paying them any attention.
1.) change instances (if your party does not want to change instances, that means it can't be bothering them too much).
2.) incorporate their inane antics into your roleplay (i.e. hey Elron, looks like Cmdr. Fluffy has been hittin' the sauce again, he has grabbed an extinguisher and is hosing the bar down).
3.) talk with the person (no not just to yell or vent), actually talk to them and see what is going on (they might be a player that is bored or roleplaying a part). Heck, you might even make a friend if you actually talk to them.
4.) Stop taking everything so serious, this is a game, enjoy it and the people who play it with you (regardless of how ignorant they behave), personally I just laugh at the chuckleheads acting like that, and have started conversations with them and they will generally stop and chat back, or wander off to bother someone who has a stick lodged in their butt.
if that can be applied to them, it could also be applied to other areas including things you do, right?
I don't RP in Spacedock. If I did, I would use private channels or the Lounge. And I certainly don't harass people, if that is what you are implying. I'm sorry somebody annoyed you once, but it has no relevance to this thread and it frankly sounds like you were rude to them, too.
This is a very small, very worthless feature that someone forgot to turn off when beta testing was over. If it can be disabled, it should be.
I've found that the people who defend griefers usually turn out to be the ones who are doing the griefing in the first place.
Usually is not all inclusive of everyone. Furthermore I never used the word "anyone" anywhere in my entire post.
Just an observation but in my experience I've found that the people who defend griefers usually turn out to be the ones who are doing the griefing in the first place.
I do not believe they should be removed or not allowed to do that if RP'ers are allowed to be annoying as well. But I am not messing with them as you said I must be doing by your statement. Therefore, you are wrong. No gray area there.
I never accused you of griefing anyone, and since never stated that anyone who defends griefers are themselves griefers, you are in fact the one that is wrong.
Or is it fair to say, "I find those who complain about the griefers, are the annoying RPers that won't take 'HELL NO' as a clue to leave people alone who don't care to RP and the so-called griefer is showing what annoying is."? Is that a fair implication of why you said what you did? I would say not fair to try to imply you have been the one in the game doing the act without proof.
What is fair to say is that anyone who persists in behaving in a fashion another person finds aggravating after they have been politely asked to stop is a griefer. The only proof required is the chat logs that every GM has access to. He can easily check the conversations and confirm that the offending party was indeed asked to stop and didn't. It is then in his hands to take whatever actions he feels appropriate to rectify the offending players behaviour.
I don't RP in Spacedock. If I did, I would use private channels or the Lounge. And I certainly don't harass people, if that is what you are implying. I'm sorry somebody annoyed you once, but it has no relevance to this thread and it frankly sounds like you were rude to them, too.
This is a very small, very worthless feature that someone forgot to turn off when beta testing was over. If it can be disabled, it should be.
try more than ONCE.
Again, I actually realize they are the minority. I don't go asking for the devs to remove any RP'ing tools because that would hurt those who are not being annoying which is the majority of them. That's the difference. You are asking for something to be removed because one person you named did something. See? I can do the "only one" thing too.
And actually, saw one guy a while back in Spacedock that made me lol with the smoke grenade. He was in Club 47 area acting drunk and someone asked who did he think he was. He said, "I'm Batman." and threw down a smoke grenade to disappear only he was still there after it cleared. So that guy's fun should be removed because you were annoyed by that one guy you named? And that other guy was actually doing what you want to do... RP'ing having too much Romulan Ale.
And I have found that people who ask for certain things to be taken away from everyone
What exactly is being taken away? The ability to drop a shield generator in space dock? Why do you even want that? How will removing it effect your enjoyment? What would you consider to be a fair compromise?
What is fair to say is that anyone who persists in behaving in a fashion another person finds aggravating after they have been politely asked to stop is a griefer. The only proof required is the chat logs that every GM has access to. He can easily check the conversations and confirm that the offending party was indeed asked to stop and didn't. It is then in his hands to take whatever actions he feels appropriate to rectify the offending players behaviour.
So then, why can't people who want that guy to stop using the smoke grenades near him do the following:
1. Ask him to stop or take it elsewhere.
2. If he persists, then report him and let the GM's deal with that one person who is abusing something.
Why is that not available as well instead of asking for everyone to not be able to do something?
What exactly is being taken away? The ability to drop a shield generator in space dock? Why do you even want that? How will removing it effect your enjoyment? What would you consider to be a fair compromise?
Try eight. Who changed instances to follow us.
And you can continue to RP being a drunken idiot without smoke grenades.
Oh, so now you get to say what people can and cannot do while RP'ing? Wow. That's too much power for one player to have to be honest.
The person I spoke of only used the grenade once to go along with is "I'm Batman" line. Sort of made it funnier because he also played he was amazed it didn't work.
And if the person followed you through 8 instances to keep doing it, yes that's a problem child that should be reported. But that was one person and not the entire player base. A very small faction. Not even high enough to qualify as a minority.
or if you mean 8 people followed you, then report the 8. Once you changed instances and they followed, they broke the rules. Not everyone but those individuals.
Oh, so now you get to say what people can and cannot do while RP'ing?
There is no need for histrionics. You know that's not what I was saying. Greying out the smoke grenade option while in space dock will not remove the ability to act drunk, stupid, or even act like Batman. It will remove part of the ability to act like a jerk.
we may yet see combat again in starbase o1, and actually hope we do so turning them off may be more trouble than its worth
Often there ARE no other instances to get into.
My problem with locking the use of abilitys is that smoke grenades and that fire extinguisher are nice RP-devices now and then, if RP is more then just staying there and talking.
But actually I have no better solution to get rid of that griefers.
This is apparently too big of a problem for the GMs to handle, because I've never seen one respond to a report of harassment.
There is no need for histrionics. You know that's not what I was saying. Greying out the smoke grenade option while in space dock will not remove the ability to act drunk, stupid, or even act like Batman. It will remove part of the ability to act like a jerk.
But you are saying now nobody should be able to use it because it bothered YOU. Even those who never used it in such a manor because a very small percentage did something YOU didn't like. It's not a big majority of people doing it. A very small faction.
What exactly is being taken away? The ability to drop a shield generator in space dock? Why do you even want that? How will removing it effect your enjoyment? What would you consider to be a fair compromise?
Try eight. Who changed instances to follow us.
And you can continue to RP being a drunken idiot without smoke grenades.
My fleet likes to climb, we do not block doorways we do not disrupt other RP players, removing covershields will effectively keep us from enjoying our time together and interacting.
If 8 people followed you to a different instance, I would almost guarantee that you said something that twerped them off enough to do so. You can deny it, but no bored idiot is going to actively follow unless they knew that, you (or someone in your group) was extremely irritated and had lashed out at them.
As I said, immature people crave attention, you gave them attention (probably the exact kind of reaction they wanted), so they knew you were good for some laughs by following.
Walking around with a stick in your butt is no way to go through life,
I joined my fleet because we enjoy each others company and do a little RP and climb to places no one can get to and take screenshots to share with others, we are not disruptive to others in the process.
My suggestion? Ignore them or chat politely with them, and do not roleplay in zone or local chat where they can overhear you. When you throw chum in the water, expect to get some shark attention...
It's not a big majority of people doing it. A very small faction.
A small faction of what? The people who drop shield generators in Spacedock?
I'm pretty sure it's only a small amount of the player base that even cares if you can do that. And I'd wager that a large percentage of them are griefers.
Yeah, exactly. I'd love for it not to come to this, and I've used them myself, but I can't think up a better solution, and the problem's out of hand.
If anyone else can think of a better way (not just "ignore it and switch instances all day"). then I'd be glad to hear it.
The problem is, even with locked abilities they still can be annoying. They can jump on tables, run into us ect ect ect. There if they want to disturb our game they can, with or without skills.
So i thing locking the abilitys lets us pay more then we gain.
A small faction of what? The people who drop shield generators in Spacedock?
I'm pretty sure it's only a small amount of the player base that even cares if you can do that. And I'd wager that a large percentage of them are griefers.
On Gondola you can lock the access to the most important room (that one where we klingons get our mark of honor and pvp-mark stuff, where the exchange and the bank is) with that f**** forcefield, so nobody can enter it. Acutally thats something a lot of people care about---- everybody who wants to get in or out there.
A while ago that happened A LOT on that station, it was REALLY ANNOYING.
For some reason it doesnt happen anymore, may be because there is nobody left with that 5 players we have...
My fleet likes to climb, we do not block doorways we do not disrupt other RP players, removing covershields will effectively keep us from enjoying our time together and interacting.
If 8 people followed you to a different instance, I would almost guarantee that you said something that twerped them off enough to do so. You can deny it, but no bored idiot is going to actively follow unless they knew that, you (or someone in your group) was extremely irritated and had lashed out at them.
It coudl have been someone in my group, or it could have been that I took your advice and politely asked them to stop.
Again, I'm very open to suggestions for a compromise, but most of you seem to be more interested in flaming and insulting me, even though I am trying to be polite.
The problem is, even with locked abilities they still can be annoying. They can jump on tables, run into us ect ect ect. There if they want to disturb our game they can, with or without skills.
So i thing locking the abilitys lets us pay more then we gain.
Welcome to life. People do things to disturb you. Ever eat in a restraunt? Go to a movie theatre? GO anywhere public?
People talk loud, do obnoxious things, run into other people, knock stuff down, swear loudly, stink etc...
A small faction of what? The people who drop shield generators in Spacedock?
I'm pretty sure it's only a small amount of the player base that even cares if you can do that. And I'd wager that a large percentage of them are griefers.
You know how many people can use the smoke grenades compared to the number of people who used them in the manor that offended you? If STO has over 100k players as stated, you can bet at least 1/5th can use them if not more since it's a tac skill and most rolled tacs and engs at the start. So less than 10 people did what you said, but you want it to affect over 20,000.
Those who did that to you are such a small percentage of everyone who could do it but do not. So let's take it away from everyone because of that little percentage?
You know how many people can use the smoke grenades
I'm not asking that smoke grenades be removed. Only that you can't use them in RP areas, like the Lounge. A very small number of areas, all told.
Cover shield is being used for griefing, so it should probably be unavailable in a wider variety of areas, but I am also not asking that it be removed.
Unless you can think of a compromise, which I am open to.
That climbing is something I actually like to do sometimes, too.
But everybody who isnt mentaly disabled can see diffrence between an climbing guy and an idiot trying to disturb RP on purpose.
True. With the current GM response time for tickets (measured in days), I doubt Cryptic is capable or competent enough to handle griefers. That's part of the problem and why griefers continue to be so rampant.
I'm not asking that smoke grenades be removed. Only that you can't use them in RP areas, like the Lounge. A very small number of areas, all told.
Cover shield is being used for griefing, so it should probably be unavailable in a wider variety of areas, but I am also not asking that it be removed.
Unless you can think of a compromise, which I am open to.
True. With the current GM response time for tickets (measured in days), I doubt Cryptic is capable or competent enough to handle griefers. That's part of the problem and why griefers continue to be so rampant.
This is the only answer I can come up with, aside from "get more GMs", which I'm not sure is economically viable.
EDIT: Malicia, let me introduce you to my ignore list.
It coudl have been someone in my group, or it could have been that I took your advice and politely asked them to stop.
Again, I'm very open to suggestions for a compromise, but most of you seem to be more interested in flaming and insulting me, even though I am trying to be polite.
Sorry, I did not mean to flame you.
I only play light RP, too many RP guilds I have joined in the past took themselves way too seriously and that ruined my game experience.
When someone starts shooting me with an extinguisher I will ask them "where's the fire?", I will talk directly to them and never hint that it bothers me at all, after a few minutes of chat, they will wander off, or hang out and continue the conversation (I have actually made friends in games this way).
If someone is blocking hallways I will turn around and walk the other way, when they can't see me, I will change instance and go about my merry way. (they are oblivious to what I have done).
If someone drops a smoke grenade I jump on a table and start dancing, or start an ability that adds some colored lights to it, this will sometimes initiate conversation and again they will either hang out with the group and chat with us or wander off to bother someone who will react poorly to it.
Never react negatively to them, that just feeds the stupidity
This is the only answer I can come up with, aside from "get more GMs", which I'm not sure is economically viable.
The GMs say they're working hard (and I believe them), so it's a quantity issue in that Cryptic isn't hiring enough GMs to handle their player-base and/or ticket count. I never had that problem in UO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO, or even DDO. All of those GM responses were measured in hours. And now Cryptic is overextending themselves with another MMO to be announced this summer? They need to support what they already have or they'll be churning out high-turnover rate MMOs with very few loyal subscribers.
In terms of removing abilities from certain areas, I think that's going to hurt more people than it helps. As frustrating as it is to deal with griefers, serious RP sessions should be in private instances such as bridges. Even without grief-potential abilities like cover shield and smoke grenade, griefers will always fine a way to annoy others trying to have a good RP time in any MMO, even if it's just running around, over, or in front of people and/or spamming messages.
Removing these abilities such as cover shield is like trying to remove vehicles from the real world because they can kill people involved in accidents.
I only play light RP, too many RP guilds I have joined in the past took themselves way too seriously and that ruined my game experience.
I only light RP myself. And this isn't about RP, it's about harassment. I'm sorry I even brought it up, because it seems the haters are out in force, and they're distracting from the real issue.
I'm not saying they should remove any abilities. I'm not even saying they should make them unavailable in spacedock, specifically.
I'm saying that removing the ability to use them in a small number of non-combat areas would reduce the amount of griefing, and I'm right. Has anyone argued any differently? No. Have I been rude, or overly demanding? No. Am I open to a better suggestion? Absolutely, I'd love to hear other people's ideas.
Comments
You know the smoke grenades thing, my fleet had fun with them on Risa, on a beach where it was only the fleet members at the moment. So you want it taken away from that too? You can't just do it in one place and not the other. Asking for removal of the annoying also affects those not annoying. And the point is... if that can be applied to them, it could also be applied to other areas including things you do, right?
And I have found that people who ask for certain things to be taken away from everyone just because it might disrupt their role playing abilities are fairly uptight "pieholes".
If people are blocking hallways or doors they are immature, the best way to counter this is to ignore them, immature people want attention (read our forums for greater insight into that). Immature people will go away when they realize you are not paying them any attention.
1.) change instances (if your party does not want to change instances, that means it can't be bothering them too much).
2.) incorporate their inane antics into your roleplay (i.e. hey Elron, looks like Cmdr. Fluffy has been hittin' the sauce again, he has grabbed an extinguisher and is hosing the bar down).
3.) talk with the person (no not just to yell or vent), actually talk to them and see what is going on (they might be a player that is bored or roleplaying a part). Heck, you might even make a friend if you actually talk to them.
4.) Stop taking everything so serious, this is a game, enjoy it and the people who play it with you (regardless of how ignorant they behave), personally I just laugh at the chuckleheads acting like that, and have started conversations with them and they will generally stop and chat back, or wander off to bother someone who has a stick lodged in their butt.
I don't RP in Spacedock. If I did, I would use private channels or the Lounge. And I certainly don't harass people, if that is what you are implying. I'm sorry somebody annoyed you once, but it has no relevance to this thread and it frankly sounds like you were rude to them, too.
This is a very small, very worthless feature that someone forgot to turn off when beta testing was over. If it can be disabled, it should be.
No I didn't. What I actually said was this
Usually is not all inclusive of everyone. Furthermore I never used the word "anyone" anywhere in my entire post.
I never accused you of griefing anyone, and since never stated that anyone who defends griefers are themselves griefers, you are in fact the one that is wrong.
What is fair to say is that anyone who persists in behaving in a fashion another person finds aggravating after they have been politely asked to stop is a griefer. The only proof required is the chat logs that every GM has access to. He can easily check the conversations and confirm that the offending party was indeed asked to stop and didn't. It is then in his hands to take whatever actions he feels appropriate to rectify the offending players behaviour.
try more than ONCE.
Again, I actually realize they are the minority. I don't go asking for the devs to remove any RP'ing tools because that would hurt those who are not being annoying which is the majority of them. That's the difference. You are asking for something to be removed because one person you named did something. See? I can do the "only one" thing too.
And actually, saw one guy a while back in Spacedock that made me lol with the smoke grenade. He was in Club 47 area acting drunk and someone asked who did he think he was. He said, "I'm Batman." and threw down a smoke grenade to disappear only he was still there after it cleared. So that guy's fun should be removed because you were annoyed by that one guy you named? And that other guy was actually doing what you want to do... RP'ing having too much Romulan Ale.
What exactly is being taken away? The ability to drop a shield generator in space dock? Why do you even want that? How will removing it effect your enjoyment? What would you consider to be a fair compromise?
Try eight. Who changed instances to follow us.
And you can continue to RP being a drunken idiot without smoke grenades.
So then, why can't people who want that guy to stop using the smoke grenades near him do the following:
1. Ask him to stop or take it elsewhere.
2. If he persists, then report him and let the GM's deal with that one person who is abusing something.
Why is that not available as well instead of asking for everyone to not be able to do something?
Oh, so now you get to say what people can and cannot do while RP'ing? Wow. That's too much power for one player to have to be honest.
The person I spoke of only used the grenade once to go along with is "I'm Batman" line. Sort of made it funnier because he also played he was amazed it didn't work.
or if you mean 8 people followed you, then report the 8. Once you changed instances and they followed, they broke the rules. Not everyone but those individuals.
This is apparently too big of a problem for the GMs to handle, because I've never seen one respond to a report of harassment.
There is no need for histrionics. You know that's not what I was saying. Greying out the smoke grenade option while in space dock will not remove the ability to act drunk, stupid, or even act like Batman. It will remove part of the ability to act like a jerk.
Often there ARE no other instances to get into.
My problem with locking the use of abilitys is that smoke grenades and that fire extinguisher are nice RP-devices now and then, if RP is more then just staying there and talking.
But actually I have no better solution to get rid of that griefers.
Yeah, exactly. I'd love for it not to come to this, and I've used them myself, but I can't think up a better solution, and the problem's out of hand.
If anyone else can think of a better way (not just "ignore it and switch instances all day"). then I'd be glad to hear it.
But you are saying now nobody should be able to use it because it bothered YOU. Even those who never used it in such a manor because a very small percentage did something YOU didn't like. It's not a big majority of people doing it. A very small faction.
My fleet likes to climb, we do not block doorways we do not disrupt other RP players, removing covershields will effectively keep us from enjoying our time together and interacting.
If 8 people followed you to a different instance, I would almost guarantee that you said something that twerped them off enough to do so. You can deny it, but no bored idiot is going to actively follow unless they knew that, you (or someone in your group) was extremely irritated and had lashed out at them.
As I said, immature people crave attention, you gave them attention (probably the exact kind of reaction they wanted), so they knew you were good for some laughs by following.
Walking around with a stick in your butt is no way to go through life,
I joined my fleet because we enjoy each others company and do a little RP and climb to places no one can get to and take screenshots to share with others, we are not disruptive to others in the process.
My suggestion? Ignore them or chat politely with them, and do not roleplay in zone or local chat where they can overhear you. When you throw chum in the water, expect to get some shark attention...
A small faction of what? The people who drop shield generators in Spacedock?
I'm pretty sure it's only a small amount of the player base that even cares if you can do that. And I'd wager that a large percentage of them are griefers.
The problem is, even with locked abilities they still can be annoying. They can jump on tables, run into us ect ect ect. There if they want to disturb our game they can, with or without skills.
So i thing locking the abilitys lets us pay more then we gain.
On Gondola you can lock the access to the most important room (that one where we klingons get our mark of honor and pvp-mark stuff, where the exchange and the bank is) with that f**** forcefield, so nobody can enter it. Acutally thats something a lot of people care about---- everybody who wants to get in or out there.
A while ago that happened A LOT on that station, it was REALLY ANNOYING.
For some reason it doesnt happen anymore, may be because there is nobody left with that 5 players we have...
Ditto.
As others have said, just switch instances.
It coudl have been someone in my group, or it could have been that I took your advice and politely asked them to stop.
Again, I'm very open to suggestions for a compromise, but most of you seem to be more interested in flaming and insulting me, even though I am trying to be polite.
Welcome to life. People do things to disturb you. Ever eat in a restraunt? Go to a movie theatre? GO anywhere public?
People talk loud, do obnoxious things, run into other people, knock stuff down, swear loudly, stink etc...
This isn't unique to you or STO.
You know how many people can use the smoke grenades compared to the number of people who used them in the manor that offended you? If STO has over 100k players as stated, you can bet at least 1/5th can use them if not more since it's a tac skill and most rolled tacs and engs at the start. So less than 10 people did what you said, but you want it to affect over 20,000.
Those who did that to you are such a small percentage of everyone who could do it but do not. So let's take it away from everyone because of that little percentage?
That climbing is something I actually like to do sometimes, too.
But everybody who isnt mentaly disabled can see diffrence between an climbing guy and an idiot trying to disturb RP on purpose.
I'm not asking that smoke grenades be removed. Only that you can't use them in RP areas, like the Lounge. A very small number of areas, all told.
Cover shield is being used for griefing, so it should probably be unavailable in a wider variety of areas, but I am also not asking that it be removed.
Unless you can think of a compromise, which I am open to.
True. With the current GM response time for tickets (measured in days), I doubt Cryptic is capable or competent enough to handle griefers. That's part of the problem and why griefers continue to be so rampant.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~ Phoxe
This is the only answer I can come up with, aside from "get more GMs", which I'm not sure is economically viable.
EDIT: Malicia, let me introduce you to my ignore list.
Sorry, I did not mean to flame you.
I only play light RP, too many RP guilds I have joined in the past took themselves way too seriously and that ruined my game experience.
When someone starts shooting me with an extinguisher I will ask them "where's the fire?", I will talk directly to them and never hint that it bothers me at all, after a few minutes of chat, they will wander off, or hang out and continue the conversation (I have actually made friends in games this way).
If someone is blocking hallways I will turn around and walk the other way, when they can't see me, I will change instance and go about my merry way. (they are oblivious to what I have done).
If someone drops a smoke grenade I jump on a table and start dancing, or start an ability that adds some colored lights to it, this will sometimes initiate conversation and again they will either hang out with the group and chat with us or wander off to bother someone who will react poorly to it.
Never react negatively to them, that just feeds the stupidity
The GMs say they're working hard (and I believe them), so it's a quantity issue in that Cryptic isn't hiring enough GMs to handle their player-base and/or ticket count. I never had that problem in UO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO, or even DDO. All of those GM responses were measured in hours. And now Cryptic is overextending themselves with another MMO to be announced this summer? They need to support what they already have or they'll be churning out high-turnover rate MMOs with very few loyal subscribers.
In terms of removing abilities from certain areas, I think that's going to hurt more people than it helps. As frustrating as it is to deal with griefers, serious RP sessions should be in private instances such as bridges. Even without grief-potential abilities like cover shield and smoke grenade, griefers will always fine a way to annoy others trying to have a good RP time in any MMO, even if it's just running around, over, or in front of people and/or spamming messages.
Removing these abilities such as cover shield is like trying to remove vehicles from the real world because they can kill people involved in accidents.
I only light RP myself. And this isn't about RP, it's about harassment. I'm sorry I even brought it up, because it seems the haters are out in force, and they're distracting from the real issue.
I'm not saying they should remove any abilities. I'm not even saying they should make them unavailable in spacedock, specifically.
I'm saying that removing the ability to use them in a small number of non-combat areas would reduce the amount of griefing, and I'm right. Has anyone argued any differently? No. Have I been rude, or overly demanding? No. Am I open to a better suggestion? Absolutely, I'd love to hear other people's ideas.
I did in the post above yours.
My point is that griefers will always find ways to grief, even without these abilities like cover shield and smoke grenade.
To truly solve it, GMs need to be able to respond quickly. To solve it yourself, as annoying as it is, changing instances helps.