It's not something that I would normally do, but every time I'm in the war zones the feds typically outnumber the klingons by a large margin, and will kill every klingon without a second thought. When I see this happen I make it a priority to attack any of these gankers when they are weak.
Today I commented about the ganking, and one in particular decided to be smug about it, so I went out looking for him, found him alone and blew him away.
If you're not going to give the klingons at the spawn a chance, then I'm going to do my best to make sure that you don't have one later on. That said, those who don't participate I don't do this to.
I seen 10 fedration players farm 2 fed players today who were on my team , I was able to stealth impulse by but I just watched as they farmed thier OWN ppl for 15 some mins......Tell me again about Honor.
Yeah, it is crazy how quickly feds will turn on their own and camp them. I feel sorry for the feds getting ganked as they can't cloak and if they run; they'll get chased and killed. I usually sit and watch until the feds move on and kill the ones that stay behind to camp.
I was in borg hunt yesterday with a fed player named worm and man they showed no mercy. He ran for it and 3 feds chased him down and he ran some more and they kept on him. Once another player zoned in and he respawned we slaughtered the feds. I personally would not shoot at a kling if he was bugged and on the fed side unless shot at me first.
Trash talking is a waste of time and if there is a trash talker thats in the same instance as me I will make it a priority to kill them over and over and over and over. I rarely engage in trash talking but I do occasionally slip up because of how terrible some fed players are.
I recognize Vor (Sarty) as one who is often in Borg Hunt part of RZR, and second his observations. Feds turn on Feds like vultures and without mercy, and I can't see me doing that to another Klingon unless they came at me.
In fact as a Klingon, I'd reach out and ask if the guy on the other side would help scout - since he can do so without being attacked.
I was on my RA5 when RZR jumped me yesterday, and I enjoyed several explosions to their three some - both win and loss - good fun. Later that night I was happy to jump on my BG5 and be one of the attacking Klingons.
In the end, I see Borg Hunt as one of the most open PvP elements of the game. I also think it says good things about RZR when I see three of their fleet conducting raids like that. More organized fleets like RZR working together in the same instance would help in areas like Borg Hunt more than any single adjustment Cryptic could make.
well if you are in a non co-op zone then it's a free for all.
I've not once not been attacked in the Ker'rat system by a fed while I've already engaged a borg(s).
Turnabout is fair play.
Didnt bother to read all the other posts, but in answer to the OP, regardless of PvP or non-PvP....the basic tactic of laying in wait and ambushing an opponent is not honorable. A True Klingon or someone who wants to RP one, would find honor in measuring himself against his opponent, it does not gain him honor to take his opponent unaware or at less than his normal fitness level. To gain honor you must face opponents who are equal to or stronger than your self. To fight a lesser foe is a loss of honor. You may subjugate lesser races but you gain no honor in it, and in fact will give the lesser race Honor if they valiantly resist. There is no Dishonor in losing, there is only dishonor in trying to cheat to gain honor.
This is NOT a commentary on the Games PvP or mechanics or reality that necessitates Klingon Cloaking. Klingons were NEVER intended to have Cloaking technology in Gene Roddenberrys plan, however in the early 80's a script leak caused a late stage replacement of Romulans with Klingons instead...it was too late to do rewrites so they just plugged in Klingon where it said Romulan. Im reciting this stuff from memory from the time, so don't have the exact details but I do know that is what whent down in the real world, Klingons got Cloaks by a fluke, not because it is honorable to ambush your foes.
What's the difference if you get bounced by someone that's cloaked or not , while you're engaged with an AI that's obviously not an easy kill ? If you get bounced by one or twenty players the chances are good , you were not prepared for the fight. When you fight the AI there's always a chance you can pull adds ? You could still die ? I'm sorry I'm just not seeing the difference . I'm not bashing anyone , but coming out of cloak is like warping into the system to a degree, we have to deal with what's thrown at us ?
Didnt bother to read all the other posts, but in answer to the OP, regardless of PvP or non-PvP....the basic tactic of laying in wait and ambushing an opponent is not honorable. A True Klingon or someone who wants to RP one, would find honor in measuring himself against his opponent, it does not gain him honor to take his opponent unaware or at less than his normal fitness level. To gain honor you must face opponents who are equal to or stronger than your self. To fight a lesser foe is a loss of honor. You may subjugate lesser races but you gain no honor in it, and in fact will give the lesser race Honor if they valiantly resist. There is no Dishonor in losing, there is only dishonor in trying to cheat to gain honor.
This is NOT a commentary on the Games PvP or mechanics or reality that necessitates Klingon Cloaking. Klingons were NEVER intended to have Cloaking technology in Gene Roddenberrys plan, however in the early 80's a script leak caused a late stage replacement of Romulans with Klingons instead...it was too late to do rewrites so they just plugged in Klingon where it said Romulan. Im reciting this stuff from memory from the time, so don't have the exact details but I do know that is what whent down in the real world, Klingons got Cloaks by a fluke, not because it is honorable to ambush your foes.
You're discussing a duel , and while this game is framed in a time of war . So if you're going to spout RP TRIBBLE , then make sure you frame it in the proper context. War is an all out adventure , no quarter asked , no quarter given. The only honor then is the victory of the Empire . The federation is deemed a wortthy advesary and so any defeat or denial of resource to the enemy is considered a victory. So if you're going to RP get the context of it correct and think in the frame of the empire and not the individual . A klingon RP'er would place the benefit of the empire over his.
Acutally I am discussing ANY one on one encounter. WAR, Survival and Necessity require that issues of Honor take a secondary place to Duty and Responsibility. These are all seperate issues. In war you gain honor by treating your adversary with respect and dignity as long as they also act with honor and dignity. War will necessitate that you do what you must to win because WAR is a MUST WIN situation where the survival of not only an individual is at stake but your whole race/culture/nation as well.
Which is why I did not run "in game" Klingons down for using cloaking tactics, but even in game one can dishonor oneself. The game mechanics and the numbers disadvantage for the Klingons make cloaking a necessity.
Oh and being in a PvP area means you should be ready to get jumped at any time and never have your guard down.
i have always been puzzled that an honorable warrior race would even choose to employ cloaking devices, so i guess it is honorable for klingons, victory seems to take precedence over honor, at least the human concept of honor. mind you honorable combat in western europe was originally defined by two men in make up and wigs slapping each other with gloves and then shooting each other.... not for the lulz but for the honor!
War, seldom allows the luxury of niceties like Honor, thus it skews the issue. War isnt something you do for a weekend's kicks, it is almost always a life and eath struggle for ones entire faction/nation/race or whatever, to lose is not acceptable.
i have always been puzzled that an honorable warrior race would even choose to employ cloaking devices, so i guess it is honorable for klingons, victory seems to take precedence over honor, at least the human concept of honor. mind you honorable combat in western europe was originally defined by two men in make up and wigs slapping each other with gloves and then shooting each other.... not for the lulz but for the honor!
that boils it pretty much to the point.
Why would a race calling itself honorable rely so heavy on hit and run?
From my understanding Hirogen are way more honorable.
I think a lot of peple misunderstand honor, particularly in the military context.
Considering it an honor to die for your Country, King or Empire is one thing to think about.
Conducting oneself with "honor" on the battlefield can be construed to be many things, including:
- showing courage in battle
- obeying the "laws of war" such as not shooting those that try to surrender, civilians, wounded, etc.
- treating prisoners humainly
- not being cruel or inflicitng unnecessary suffering
But I find this "why would an honorable species use a cloak or hit and run tactics" almost laughable. To the Japanese honor is very important. Yet they did not consider a sneak attack on the Russian fleet at Port Arthur dishonorable, any more than they did 35 years later at Pearl Harbor.
The US military has conducted surprise attacks at the outset of hostilities numerous times, and WWII was the last time the US Congress issued a declaration of war.
A study of warfare will show that hit and run tactics by an inferior or even a superior force are common. Ambushes are common. Read Sun Tzu, Musashi, Clausewitz, Jomini or any other philosopher of war and you will see they all recommended taking every advantage that surprise and superior numbers offer.
The Klingons are warriors, no one should expect them to act stupidly out of honor, or to offer an enemy in battle any chivalrous breaks for the sake of "honor." Going 1 on 1 then you have 3:1 odds in your favor is stupid. As stupid as not hiding in ambush behind a stone wall or in a forest until the Redcoats are in your kill zone.
"You don't win a war by dying for YOUR country. You win a war by making the other SOB die for HIS country"
So - I take a ship in capable of beating a cube down solo.
You would expect an average BoP to take me on when I am at full strength, cruising with max shields up waiting for someone to try a pot-shot at me?
Not really bright.
So, I do not consider it dishonorable when the scum-sucking, lower than whale ka-ka cod-piece raked me over right after I took a cube down, and got torched by the core breach last week?
I would consider it wisdom on his part. And rather nice timing, even if he was a rat b*stard about it.
War, seldom allows the luxury of niceties like Honor, thus it skews the issue. War isnt something you do for a weekend's kicks, it is almost always a life and eath struggle for ones entire faction/nation/race or whatever, to lose is not acceptable.
actually the klingons would think of war on the weekend to be fun.... you know for ***** and giggles....a savage and backwards race. it is ironic to think that war to humans is such a serious matter while the klingons just do it for the lulz, oh and to be the subject of songs and stories
that boils it pretty much to the point.
Why would a race calling itself honorable rely so heavy on hit and run?
From my understanding Hirogen are way more honorable.
Didnt bother to read all the other posts, but in answer to the OP, regardless of PvP or non-PvP....the basic tactic of laying in wait and ambushing an opponent is not honorable. A True Klingon or someone who wants to RP one, would find honor in measuring himself against his opponent, it does not gain him honor to take his opponent unaware or at less than his normal fitness level. To gain honor you must face opponents who are equal to or stronger than your self. To fight a lesser foe is a loss of honor. You may subjugate lesser races but you gain no honor in it, and in fact will give the lesser race Honor if they valiantly resist. There is no Dishonor in losing, there is only dishonor in trying to cheat to gain honor.
This is NOT a commentary on the Games PvP or mechanics or reality that necessitates Klingon Cloaking. Klingons were NEVER intended to have Cloaking technology in Gene Roddenberrys plan, however in the early 80's a script leak caused a late stage replacement of Romulans with Klingons instead...it was too late to do rewrites so they just plugged in Klingon where it said Romulan. Im reciting this stuff from memory from the time, so don't have the exact details but I do know that is what whent down in the real world, Klingons got Cloaks by a fluke, not because it is honorable to ambush your foes.
Under Roddenberry's watch, the Klingons used Cloaks in TMP-era movies as well as the later TNG series (until he died). What's done is done, there's no "should have, would have, could have." The fact remains, the founder of Star Trek enabled the Klingons to have Cloaks. Deal with it.
As far as the real Klingons not using Cloaks because it's dishonorable, **BS**. Great examples abound in DS9's entire Dominion War story arc of the Klingons heavily utilizing Cloaking technology by any ship captain that had one. Gowron, Martok for example were major figures in the Empire and had no qualms about sending fleets cloaked. Even Worf, who many consider "honorable" served several times on Klingon vessels, and made no protest whatsoever, private to the captain or in public, about the order to use Cloaks.
DS9's entire Dominion War story arc is an excellent example of the Klingons fighting a war.
- It wasn't just one episode or a few stringed together. It encompassed several seasons.
- You get to see many characters involved in the war, not just Worf and Martok.
- You get to see the Klingons victorious and defeated during the ever flowing fortunes of war.
- You get to see the Klingons shoulder the entire war effort when the Breen arrived with technology to ravage the allied starfleets... except for the Klingons. The Klingons suffered HEAVY casualties, because their ships were the only ones not affected by Breen tech.
- In short, you saw so many different things about the Klingons.
And none... absolutely NO reference has been made in DS9, even TNG which had many Klingon-themed story arcs, about the Klingons frowning down on Cloaking technology as a tool in winning a fight. Not even ANY of the Star Trek movies have shown any sort of thinking like that in the Klingons.
Cloak is simply creating tactical surprise. Klingon is a warrior culture. Taking an enemy from ambush is niether honorable or dishonorable. It simply has nothing what so ever to do with honor.
An honorable act for a Klingon is any act preformed from a place of right action. More often then not its not a action at all but a decision. Do "I" do this or do "I" not do this? A Warrior knows in his/her heart what is right and what is wrong. Chosing to act from right action is honorable. Choosing to act from wrong action is dishonorable. It was a belived in a certain terran culture that "Honor is as light as a feather, but duty as heavy as a mountain." A Klingon warrior is also a soldier and must obey duty even when the requirements of duty require dishonorble action. Klingons take this very seriously. Using a cloak is a battle tactic. How a cloak is used is governed by the concept of honor. Using it against a enemy in battle is of no concern to the honorable Klingon warrior. Using it to sulk about to gather intelligence in not considered dishonorable either. Using it to bypass defending starships to ultimatly bombard a planet from space can be considered dishonorable.. striking like a thief in the night to assisinate a planet would be wrong, and an action no true warrior would contenence. But as a tool to allow one to strike at an enemy ship from an unexpected direction is well within the practices of warfare in the current age. Would a federation commander think twice about strikeing enemies of the Federation from behind the concelement of an asteroid, moon, or planets? Of course not. The Empire is powerfull, but constantly moving Asteroids, moons, and planets to convenient locations to create a tactical ambush is somewhat wastefull of resources.
Niether the Federation nor any of its client states ever developed cloaking technology and the federation stopped all reserch into cloaking technology by treaty dating from before the Dominion war. The single sole exception being the U.S.S. Defiant stationed out of DS-9. The Defiants cloak was provided by the Romulans for special consideration and under special circumstances. The Federation does not have cloaking technology and has disavowed all research into the technology. They have how ever devoted a great deal of resources and technology into detecting cloaked ships at the tractical, operational, and stratigic levels of space combat.
Federation hypocracy at work again.. You have the largest and most capable ships, and some of the most advanced technology in the known universe even though there are few true warriors cultures in the Federation.
I'm allready quite sick of arguments about Klingon cloaking. The Fed players have access to better gear then the Klingon has availible as the level up through PvE play. Far better gear. And they have DEDICATED science ships which are typically very well balanced vessles with a goodly number of systems and often times as good as or better a turn rate as fed escort class ships. WIth better hull strength, and more availible power. The Klingons simply have nothing comparable. The few advantages Klingons have are over all better turn rates, and a superb turn rate in BOP class ships. But those same ships give up other capabilities to get that magnificent turn rate. First of they have fewer bridge officer positions. That the ones they have are "universal" slots doesn't really address the lessened capability of this ship type. It certainly doesn't make them "Better" then fed ships... just different. Fed escort tier for tier are more capable ships. The Klingon just has to play smarter. Klingon Battle cruisers have better turn rates then Fed Cruisers and may mount cannons, but have less power and are somewhat more fragile once the shields go down. (somewhat? It takes 4 unaugumented quantum torpedos to crack a K'tinga..It takes 6-7 to take out a federation t-3 cruiser... this HAS been tested!..unagumented means the captain has no special abilities nor does the firing ship mount any consoles that agument torpedo damage.. testing was done against a ship mounting no shields.) ...
If you can't develop tactics for dealing with cloaking ships then don't PvP with Klingons. Personally I never worry about what the other guys has. I worry about what I have and wringing every last bit of use out of it..
Personally if you want to take cloaks away from the Klingons, I'm good with that. Just make it fair and get rid of the Fed science ships, and no fed ship may mount anything other then Phasers ..no cannons.. and Photon/Quantum/transphasic torpedo's only. AFter all, Fed still have the bigger ships.
Let me ask you. If this were real life and not a video game, what would you do?
survival of the fittest, and/or strongest.
All that honor and dishonor, forget that TRIBBLE, this isn't some fairy tale in lala land, like samurais, or knights, this is War.
In all honesty it is agame, and who ever takes advantage of the situation "wins"
Same thing IRL. think wars are fair....think because the enemy is going to sling mud in our face, we're going to sling mud back...heck no, we're going to launch boulders right onto their homes.
Like someone said before, when you set foot in the PvP zones, you will be ATTACKED. There is no choice about it. If he was a newbie, I might tell him to leave if he didn't know any better. But, dying once won't hurt anybody.
I seen 10 fedration players farm 2 fed players today who were on my team , I was able to stealth impulse by but I just watched as they farmed thier OWN ppl for 15 some mins......Tell me again about Honor.
Had this happen to me today, I was red, had 3 - 4 fed ships attacking. Then see a Klingon BOP(a friend) decloak and unload on the Fed players attacking me. It was rather funny watching the Fed ships explode. After that today, I'll be making a Klingon Character.
Destroying enemy assets in a time of war, maximizing your chance of success and minimizing your chance of loss is more than honorable, its basic military strategy.
I have many secrets about killing feds as I've come quite good at doing it all because of borg hunt. Mind you that it took practice and a lot of research and I owe all my kills to HISTORY. Thank God for the History Channel.
Psychological warfare is very powerful and I use it to get the upper hand. I know my ship is not powerful enough to take on a fed cruiser head to head 1v1 and it was never meant for that in battle. If you look at the specs it doesn't even remotely compare to a cruiser so surprise is really the ONLY advantage we have. Cloaking while being attacked if not done soon enough is lethal so it's a gamble.
I do NOT flame individuals or groups but will use the text area as a tactic to gain the advantage and will use it to gain information about your tactics. As Vietnam's Hanoi Rose proved this to be a powerful tactic I do to.
Feds do have many things at their fingertips to detect cloaked ships and countermeasures to all of the things I use and have beaten me even when almost dead so to say we are stronger and better off because we can cloak when in battle is plain old silly and bluntly shows a lack of willing to figure out how to counter the other players tactics.
I am a Commander in KDF but a RA5 on fed side so I've been on both sides of the coin and know that no matter how smart one is and no matter how smart I am there is ALWAYS someone out there smarter than I.
So what does all this mean? I think it is perfectly Honorable to use battle cloak or any cloak as a tactic just as ANY military around the world use it if they had it at their fingertips. I find flaming and picking on ONE individual intentionally to be dishonorable. Mind you choosing a name of a ship of someone or something that is controversial makes you a target and I find that to be Honorable to help that person realize he/she may have their view but imposing it on others will only end in DEATH and a 9 second reset before death comes again.
Best wishes to all even feds as I'll see you in battle on-line and I will not shed a single tear for the death of your player as I know in good conscience that the reset button is only 9 seconds away not only for me but for you too.
Many animals attack from a cloaked position. An example is the Great White Shark, which hurtles from the depths to deliver a surprise strike on prey near the water's surface. It dose what its built for.
A Klingon Bird of Prey de-cloaking and firing on a ship is no different than the shark, it dose what it's built for.
The problem is not cloaking, its the honor-less crowd control both sides shamelessly spam. The fault lies with Cryptic for trying to lure the WoW crowd with its cloned battlegrounds and combat system.
Comments
Today I commented about the ganking, and one in particular decided to be smug about it, so I went out looking for him, found him alone and blew him away.
If you're not going to give the klingons at the spawn a chance, then I'm going to do my best to make sure that you don't have one later on. That said, those who don't participate I don't do this to.
Honor is good planning, execution, and victory.
Dishonor is bad planning, poor execution, defeat, dying for nothing... a fool's death.
Lastly:
We are at war
I was in borg hunt yesterday with a fed player named worm and man they showed no mercy. He ran for it and 3 feds chased him down and he ran some more and they kept on him. Once another player zoned in and he respawned we slaughtered the feds. I personally would not shoot at a kling if he was bugged and on the fed side unless shot at me first.
Trash talking is a waste of time and if there is a trash talker thats in the same instance as me I will make it a priority to kill them over and over and over and over. I rarely engage in trash talking but I do occasionally slip up because of how terrible some fed players are.
In fact as a Klingon, I'd reach out and ask if the guy on the other side would help scout - since he can do so without being attacked.
I was on my RA5 when RZR jumped me yesterday, and I enjoyed several explosions to their three some - both win and loss - good fun. Later that night I was happy to jump on my BG5 and be one of the attacking Klingons.
In the end, I see Borg Hunt as one of the most open PvP elements of the game. I also think it says good things about RZR when I see three of their fleet conducting raids like that. More organized fleets like RZR working together in the same instance would help in areas like Borg Hunt more than any single adjustment Cryptic could make.
I've not once not been attacked in the Ker'rat system by a fed while I've already engaged a borg(s).
Turnabout is fair play.
This is NOT a commentary on the Games PvP or mechanics or reality that necessitates Klingon Cloaking. Klingons were NEVER intended to have Cloaking technology in Gene Roddenberrys plan, however in the early 80's a script leak caused a late stage replacement of Romulans with Klingons instead...it was too late to do rewrites so they just plugged in Klingon where it said Romulan. Im reciting this stuff from memory from the time, so don't have the exact details but I do know that is what whent down in the real world, Klingons got Cloaks by a fluke, not because it is honorable to ambush your foes.
You're discussing a duel , and while this game is framed in a time of war . So if you're going to spout RP TRIBBLE , then make sure you frame it in the proper context. War is an all out adventure , no quarter asked , no quarter given. The only honor then is the victory of the Empire . The federation is deemed a wortthy advesary and so any defeat or denial of resource to the enemy is considered a victory. So if you're going to RP get the context of it correct and think in the frame of the empire and not the individual . A klingon RP'er would place the benefit of the empire over his.
Which is why I did not run "in game" Klingons down for using cloaking tactics, but even in game one can dishonor oneself. The game mechanics and the numbers disadvantage for the Klingons make cloaking a necessity.
Oh and being in a PvP area means you should be ready to get jumped at any time and never have your guard down.
that boils it pretty much to the point.
Why would a race calling itself honorable rely so heavy on hit and run?
From my understanding Hirogen are way more honorable.
No I would not.
Considering it an honor to die for your Country, King or Empire is one thing to think about.
Conducting oneself with "honor" on the battlefield can be construed to be many things, including:
- showing courage in battle
- obeying the "laws of war" such as not shooting those that try to surrender, civilians, wounded, etc.
- treating prisoners humainly
- not being cruel or inflicitng unnecessary suffering
But I find this "why would an honorable species use a cloak or hit and run tactics" almost laughable. To the Japanese honor is very important. Yet they did not consider a sneak attack on the Russian fleet at Port Arthur dishonorable, any more than they did 35 years later at Pearl Harbor.
The US military has conducted surprise attacks at the outset of hostilities numerous times, and WWII was the last time the US Congress issued a declaration of war.
A study of warfare will show that hit and run tactics by an inferior or even a superior force are common. Ambushes are common. Read Sun Tzu, Musashi, Clausewitz, Jomini or any other philosopher of war and you will see they all recommended taking every advantage that surprise and superior numbers offer.
The Klingons are warriors, no one should expect them to act stupidly out of honor, or to offer an enemy in battle any chivalrous breaks for the sake of "honor." Going 1 on 1 then you have 3:1 odds in your favor is stupid. As stupid as not hiding in ambush behind a stone wall or in a forest until the Redcoats are in your kill zone.
So - I take a ship in capable of beating a cube down solo.
You would expect an average BoP to take me on when I am at full strength, cruising with max shields up waiting for someone to try a pot-shot at me?
Not really bright.
So, I do not consider it dishonorable when the scum-sucking, lower than whale ka-ka cod-piece raked me over right after I took a cube down, and got torched by the core breach last week?
I would consider it wisdom on his part. And rather nice timing, even if he was a rat b*stard about it.
actually the klingons would think of war on the weekend to be fun.... you know for ***** and giggles....a savage and backwards race. it is ironic to think that war to humans is such a serious matter while the klingons just do it for the lulz, oh and to be the subject of songs and stories
Hirogen also use cloaking a lot
Under Roddenberry's watch, the Klingons used Cloaks in TMP-era movies as well as the later TNG series (until he died). What's done is done, there's no "should have, would have, could have." The fact remains, the founder of Star Trek enabled the Klingons to have Cloaks. Deal with it.
As far as the real Klingons not using Cloaks because it's dishonorable, **BS**. Great examples abound in DS9's entire Dominion War story arc of the Klingons heavily utilizing Cloaking technology by any ship captain that had one. Gowron, Martok for example were major figures in the Empire and had no qualms about sending fleets cloaked. Even Worf, who many consider "honorable" served several times on Klingon vessels, and made no protest whatsoever, private to the captain or in public, about the order to use Cloaks.
DS9's entire Dominion War story arc is an excellent example of the Klingons fighting a war.
- It wasn't just one episode or a few stringed together. It encompassed several seasons.
- You get to see many characters involved in the war, not just Worf and Martok.
- You get to see the Klingons victorious and defeated during the ever flowing fortunes of war.
- You get to see the Klingons shoulder the entire war effort when the Breen arrived with technology to ravage the allied starfleets... except for the Klingons. The Klingons suffered HEAVY casualties, because their ships were the only ones not affected by Breen tech.
- In short, you saw so many different things about the Klingons.
And none... absolutely NO reference has been made in DS9, even TNG which had many Klingon-themed story arcs, about the Klingons frowning down on Cloaking technology as a tool in winning a fight. Not even ANY of the Star Trek movies have shown any sort of thinking like that in the Klingons.
An honorable act for a Klingon is any act preformed from a place of right action. More often then not its not a action at all but a decision. Do "I" do this or do "I" not do this? A Warrior knows in his/her heart what is right and what is wrong. Chosing to act from right action is honorable. Choosing to act from wrong action is dishonorable. It was a belived in a certain terran culture that "Honor is as light as a feather, but duty as heavy as a mountain." A Klingon warrior is also a soldier and must obey duty even when the requirements of duty require dishonorble action. Klingons take this very seriously. Using a cloak is a battle tactic. How a cloak is used is governed by the concept of honor. Using it against a enemy in battle is of no concern to the honorable Klingon warrior. Using it to sulk about to gather intelligence in not considered dishonorable either. Using it to bypass defending starships to ultimatly bombard a planet from space can be considered dishonorable.. striking like a thief in the night to assisinate a planet would be wrong, and an action no true warrior would contenence. But as a tool to allow one to strike at an enemy ship from an unexpected direction is well within the practices of warfare in the current age. Would a federation commander think twice about strikeing enemies of the Federation from behind the concelement of an asteroid, moon, or planets? Of course not. The Empire is powerfull, but constantly moving Asteroids, moons, and planets to convenient locations to create a tactical ambush is somewhat wastefull of resources.
Niether the Federation nor any of its client states ever developed cloaking technology and the federation stopped all reserch into cloaking technology by treaty dating from before the Dominion war. The single sole exception being the U.S.S. Defiant stationed out of DS-9. The Defiants cloak was provided by the Romulans for special consideration and under special circumstances. The Federation does not have cloaking technology and has disavowed all research into the technology. They have how ever devoted a great deal of resources and technology into detecting cloaked ships at the tractical, operational, and stratigic levels of space combat.
Federation hypocracy at work again.. You have the largest and most capable ships, and some of the most advanced technology in the known universe even though there are few true warriors cultures in the Federation.
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I'm allready quite sick of arguments about Klingon cloaking. The Fed players have access to better gear then the Klingon has availible as the level up through PvE play. Far better gear. And they have DEDICATED science ships which are typically very well balanced vessles with a goodly number of systems and often times as good as or better a turn rate as fed escort class ships. WIth better hull strength, and more availible power. The Klingons simply have nothing comparable. The few advantages Klingons have are over all better turn rates, and a superb turn rate in BOP class ships. But those same ships give up other capabilities to get that magnificent turn rate. First of they have fewer bridge officer positions. That the ones they have are "universal" slots doesn't really address the lessened capability of this ship type. It certainly doesn't make them "Better" then fed ships... just different. Fed escort tier for tier are more capable ships. The Klingon just has to play smarter. Klingon Battle cruisers have better turn rates then Fed Cruisers and may mount cannons, but have less power and are somewhat more fragile once the shields go down. (somewhat? It takes 4 unaugumented quantum torpedos to crack a K'tinga..It takes 6-7 to take out a federation t-3 cruiser... this HAS been tested!..unagumented means the captain has no special abilities nor does the firing ship mount any consoles that agument torpedo damage.. testing was done against a ship mounting no shields.) ...
If you can't develop tactics for dealing with cloaking ships then don't PvP with Klingons. Personally I never worry about what the other guys has. I worry about what I have and wringing every last bit of use out of it..
Personally if you want to take cloaks away from the Klingons, I'm good with that. Just make it fair and get rid of the Fed science ships, and no fed ship may mount anything other then Phasers ..no cannons.. and Photon/Quantum/transphasic torpedo's only. AFter all, Fed still have the bigger ships.
(tpift!)
Khemaraa sends.
There is nothing more honorable than victory.
Cloak helps them achieve victory.
survival of the fittest, and/or strongest.
All that honor and dishonor, forget that TRIBBLE, this isn't some fairy tale in lala land, like samurais, or knights, this is War.
In all honesty it is agame, and who ever takes advantage of the situation "wins"
Same thing IRL. think wars are fair....think because the enemy is going to sling mud in our face, we're going to sling mud back...heck no, we're going to launch boulders right onto their homes.
PvP Wise : No.
Like someone said before, when you set foot in the PvP zones, you will be ATTACKED. There is no choice about it. If he was a newbie, I might tell him to leave if he didn't know any better. But, dying once won't hurt anybody.
Since there is a war going on, I would have no problem with ambushing the enemy with such tactics.
My Orion captain is out to destroy her foes. Not play dueling pistols at 20 paces.
Had this happen to me today, I was red, had 3 - 4 fed ships attacking. Then see a Klingon BOP(a friend) decloak and unload on the Fed players attacking me. It was rather funny watching the Fed ships explode. After that today, I'll be making a Klingon Character.
Psychological warfare is very powerful and I use it to get the upper hand. I know my ship is not powerful enough to take on a fed cruiser head to head 1v1 and it was never meant for that in battle. If you look at the specs it doesn't even remotely compare to a cruiser so surprise is really the ONLY advantage we have. Cloaking while being attacked if not done soon enough is lethal so it's a gamble.
I do NOT flame individuals or groups but will use the text area as a tactic to gain the advantage and will use it to gain information about your tactics. As Vietnam's Hanoi Rose proved this to be a powerful tactic I do to.
Feds do have many things at their fingertips to detect cloaked ships and countermeasures to all of the things I use and have beaten me even when almost dead so to say we are stronger and better off because we can cloak when in battle is plain old silly and bluntly shows a lack of willing to figure out how to counter the other players tactics.
I am a Commander in KDF but a RA5 on fed side so I've been on both sides of the coin and know that no matter how smart one is and no matter how smart I am there is ALWAYS someone out there smarter than I.
So what does all this mean? I think it is perfectly Honorable to use battle cloak or any cloak as a tactic just as ANY military around the world use it if they had it at their fingertips. I find flaming and picking on ONE individual intentionally to be dishonorable. Mind you choosing a name of a ship of someone or something that is controversial makes you a target and I find that to be Honorable to help that person realize he/she may have their view but imposing it on others will only end in DEATH and a 9 second reset before death comes again.
Best wishes to all even feds as I'll see you in battle on-line and I will not shed a single tear for the death of your player as I know in good conscience that the reset button is only 9 seconds away not only for me but for you too.
James
So drop on by
A Klingon Bird of Prey de-cloaking and firing on a ship is no different than the shark, it dose what it's built for.
The problem is not cloaking, its the honor-less crowd control both sides shamelessly spam. The fault lies with Cryptic for trying to lure the WoW crowd with its cloned battlegrounds and combat system.