I sent the link to this thread to Phoxe, and told him to also look closely at your posts about how MTs are unfair in the long run. Not sure if he will comment about it, but we can always hope.
Thanks Daelin. Thats appreciated. Darmak made some fantastic points.
it's more like a multi headed hydra, one body but different heads, we are talking to Atari, or d oyou consider the billing and sales departments of your ISP "different companies"
It would be a Hydra if Cryptic wasnt directly answering to Atari. Its more like an upside down tree. Cryptic answers to Atari, and has no say what they do with their supply of Cryptics product. Because essentially its Atari product.
Cryptic is on the frontlines here, they see and understand whats going on in the playerbase. Atari doesnt get to see the every day back and forth that Cryptic does. So Atari has a very jaded idea of whats going on. While Cryptic can see it clearly. Unfortunately Cryptic doesnt have the luxury of telling its boss it doesnt like what its doing.
It would be a Hydra if Cryptic wasnt directly answering to Atari. Its more like an upside down tree. Cryptic answers to Atari, and has no say what they do with their supply of Cryptics product. Because essentially its Atari product.
Cryptic is on the frontlines here, they see and understand whats going on in the playerbase. Atari doesnt get to see the every day back and forth that Cryptic does. So Atari has a very jaded idea of whats going on. While Cryptic can see it clearly. Unfortunately Cryptic doesnt have the luxury of telling its boss it doesnt like what its doing.
It could work like that, but Im not so sure.
Im still under the impression that perhaps Cryptic IS Atari. Atari IS Cryptic.
Even over the recent Atari game 60 days free sale, when one of the GMs or mods made his apologetic statement, he said something along the lines of
" WE were trying something new. It was an experiment. WE thought it would garner more players." This is not a direct quote. I can look up the link if you'd like.
Now is that a Cryptic guy or an Atari one? I think they are both. Atari OWNS Cryptic. They are not partners. So if you are a Cryptic Employee you are an Atari employee.
Thats the way I theorize it. I could also be wrong.
ALSO, the date of the 60 days sale on the Atari site was wrong. I think it was Stormshade (maybe) that made a post here on the main site saying that HE fixed the typo. HE did it. I really think Atari and Cryptic are just different names for the same flower at this point.
Im still under the impression that perhaps Cryptic IS Atari. Atari IS Cryptic.
Even over the recent Atari game 60 days free sale, when one of the GMs or mods made his apologetic statement, he said something along the lines of
" WE were trying something new. It was an experiment. WE thought it would garner more players." This is not a direct quote. I can look up the link if you'd like.
Now is that a Cryptic guy or an Atari one? I think they are both. Atari OWNS Cryptic. They are not partners. So if you are a Cryptic Employee you are an Atari employee.
Thats the way I theorize it. I could also be wrong.
I had always though the opposite actually, which could be totally wrong. A "merger" made partners, and talking about one is a kin to the other. Buying out on the other hand, would be like the buyer being dominant over the other, such that they say what the other does, and the other can't disobey or risk being fired.
I had always though the opposite actually, which could be totally wrong. A "merger" made partners, and talking about one is a kin to the other. Buying out on the other hand, would be like the buyer being dominant over the other, such that they say what the other does, and the other can't disobey or risk being fired.
Well to my knowledge Atari did BUY Cryptic. They bought them. Atari owns Cryptic.
I also added a bit to my last post. It came to mind after I wrote it.
Im still under the impression that perhaps Cryptic IS Atari. Atari IS Cryptic.
Even over the recent Atari game 60 days free sale, when one of the GMs or mods made his apologetic statement, he said something along the lines of
" WE were trying something new. It was an experiment. WE thought it would garner more players." This is not a direct quote. I can look up the link if you'd like.
Now is that a Cryptic guy or an Atari one? I think they are both. Atari OWNS Cryptic. They are not partners. So if you are a Cryptic Employee you are an Atari employee.
Thats the way I theorize it. I could also be wrong.
ALSO, the date of the 60 days sale on the Atari site was wrong. I think it was Stormshade (maybe) that made a post here on the main site saying that HE fixed the typo. HE did it. I really think Atari and Cryptic are just different names for the same flower at this point.
I agree their statement is a bit confusing. But understand it from a point of view, your Boss isnt going to go to the fanbase and answer why they did something. Your boss is going to expect you the middle man and public figure for STO to make a statement about it.
The GM or Dev wont be able to say "Well the guys up at Atari decided they wanted to try something new" Cause that makes them seem like they arent playing on the same team (more of a show to Atari then us when they use "We").
I know this might not be a good example, but when I was in the Army over in Iraq, alot of times my Higher Ups made some stupid decisions about things that went on "on the ground" where they rarely were seen. But when those things came back to haunt us. It wasnt the Higher Ups that were apologizing and making amends. It was Us, the guys "on the ground". And we couldnt say, "Oh well it was our Commanders decision", because no one would accept that. We had to say "We" so that people understood we were taking their anger seriously and were serious about our guilt.
I agree their statement is a bit confusing. But understand it from a point of view, your Boss isnt going to go to the fanbase and answer why they did something. Your boss is going to expect you the middle man and public figure for STO to make a statement about it.
The GM or Dev wont be able to say "Well the guys up at Atari decided they wanted to try something new" Cause that makes them seem like they arent playing on the same team (more of a show to Atari then us when they use "We").
I know this might not be a good example, but when I was in the Army over in Iraq, alot of times my Higher Ups made some stupid decisions about things that went on "on the ground" where they rarely were seen. But when those things came back to haunt us. It wasnt the Higher Ups that were apologizing and making amends. It was Us, the guys "on the ground". And we couldnt say, "Oh well it was our Commanders decision", because no one would accept that. We had to say "We" so that people understood we were taking their anger seriously and were serious about our guilt.
No no that makes total sense. I mean....it really hard to know and in a way I dont think it really matters all that much. Its a little scary to think about. And I dont like Atari. AT ALL.
But then there's no telling really. It could be very much like you say.
It could also be Cryptic taking responsibility for any sales decisions or anything regarding STO. Good or not. And they should. So who knows.
No no that makes total sense. I mean....it really hard to know and in a way I dont think it really matters all that much. Its a little scary to think about. And I dont like Atari. AT ALL.
But then there's no telling really. It could be very much like you say.
It could also be Cryptic taking responsibility for any sales decisions or anything regarding STO. Good or not. And they should. So who knows.
it is totally possible they are overseeing the sales. im just inclined to think that atari wouldnt partner with someone they bought out. i cant call cryptic what i want as its against tos and eula. but it a female dog, and a male child.
Possibly like my work, where they have this "no blame culture" stuff - you just have to say "we" rather than pointing the finger at a specific team or dept.
Bit TRIBBLE I'll have to shell out for the Excelsior skin I've been asking for since Open Beta.
What about the Ambassador class?
it is totally possible they are overseeing the sales. im just inclined to think that atari wouldnt partner with someone they bought out. i cant call cryptic what i want as its against tos and eula. but it a female dog, and a male child.
Erm just thought I should point out here that Zinc has implied that is was cryptics idea to do the 90 day promo......see my sig
Not really surprised by the cash-grab and to be brutally honest, we all knew it was coming. Maybe now, players will start to see beyond the BS and "We love the fans" BS that Cryptic peddle.
The races, slots and ship stuff SHOULD be released as content and should NOT be used to nickle and dime the players who already pay subs. I bet Zinc and Dollar Bill are already laughing at this and I wonder who won the bet?
How much more will the playerbase take? I know a lot of people are not happy but will they do anything about it? I for one will be putting some stuff up on facebook regarding Cryptic and have a laugh.
Not really surprised by the cash-grab and to be brutally honest, we all knew it was coming. Maybe now, players will start to see beyond the BS and "We love the fans" BS that Cryptic peddle.
The races, slots and ship stuff SHOULD be released as content and should NOT be used to nickle and dime the players who already pay subs. I bet Zinc and Dollar Bill are already laughing at this and I wonder who won the bet?
How much more will the playerbase take? I know a lot of people are not happy but will they do anything about it? I for one will be putting some stuff up on facebook regarding Cryptic and have a laugh.
Just keep plugging away at them......if you don't like how things are stay vocal!!
Sure it's not got us everything we have been asking for......but.....they are grudgingly conceeding that actually what the players want is what they should be giving.....it just means we have to keep it up and not give in.
As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew. Never give up... and never surrender.
Ahh well the captains table was thing I liked the most anyway,also the title was nice....I still have my free 240 points to fall back on
Dang. Missed out on the free 240 points from doing the survey. But meh. It's just $3, and it sounds like the community got many of the same points I was going to make across.
EDIT: Btw, I could cite that Guild Wars and City of Heroes have the same micro-transaction setup, but then again one of those games has no monthly fee. :rolleyes::D
They let us stew for over a month with content missing, not bothering to answer anyone's queries or demands to get resolutions to their questions on additional content or missing content that should be there. And now in their "Season one" update, everything we've been asking for has conveniently been made available - as a CSTORE purchase, rather then freely delivered as it should be.
Am i the only one that thinks cryptic let the situation run as they did to find the most demanded content by players only to TRIBBLE players out of more money to get the content - when by all rights it should have been delivered when we purchased the game to begin with?
EDIT:
Just to clarify, here's my point, we get new "authentic" bridge variants coming in the next patch from the C-store, instead of the half assed ones they've provided us from launch, and our missing most wanted ships? Nebula, Excelsior, Obert, Constellation? They're there too ("Old Classics with a new twist")
Character slots i can live with, that makes sense, but if this content is conspicuously absent from launch, putting in the Cstore now reeks of nothing but moneygrabbing
I am fine with having it in the C-store - as long as Cryptic use the revenue to continue development.
What bothers me - and apparently Reed as well - is that it's looking like all the new bridge and all the new ship skin options are going into the C-store.
Until I left CO for STO, I was pleased to note that the C-store offerings were very much 'icing' and mostly special-interest. The mechanical beast and samurai costume set and the shaped capes were all things only a smallish set of people would probably ever want and use (not everyone even uses capes, after all). The Halloween costumes were, well, Halloween costumes and not exactly superhero gear (not that you couldn't get a lot of mileage out of some of the parts if you wanted). And at the same time they were rolling those out, they added and improved to the general set of selections - expanding hairstyles, adding new overwear types, making capes compatible with all costume options, etc.
In STO, the equivalent as I perceive it would be putting, say, the Excelsior and the Nebula into the general game because they're seen fairly frequently, are pretty iconic, and contemporary with designs in the game already. On the other hand, ships found only in the Wolf 359 debris field that have some following among fan communities - like the New Orleans - but not much general exposure or interest would be C-store appropriate.
Now, maybe this impression of how things are going to be in STO is wrong, and I would hope for a dev to clarify if so.
They let us stew for over a month with content missing, not bothering to answer anyone's queries or demands to get resolutions to their questions on additional content or missing content that should be there. And now in their "Season one" update, everything we've been asking for has conveniently been made available - as a CSTORE purchase, rather then freely delivered as it should be.
Am i the only one that thinks cryptic let the situation run as they did to find the most demanded content by players only to TRIBBLE players out of more money to get the content - when by all rights it should have been delivered when we purchased the game to begin with?
EDIT:
Just to clarify, here's my point, we get new "authentic" bridge variants coming in the next patch from the C-store, instead of the half assed ones they've provided us from launch, and our missing most wanted ships? Nebula, Excelsior, Obert, Constellation? They're there too ("Old Classics with a new twist")
Character slots i can live with, that makes sense, but if this content is conspicuously absent from launch, putting in the Cstore now reeks of nothing but moneygrabbing
man the game is missing the depth other mmos have successfully launched with. i and say successfully loosely. Im canceled myself. maybe a year from now new subs will be happy. but people who waited for this? Hell no. Its going to take alot longer. Ill take my money and time somewhere else. I can watch the real trek on dvd when i get bored.
I am fine with having it in the C-store - as long as Cryptic use the revenue to continue development.
Yea thats me in a way. I still think they should put out the same KIND of content they are also putting in the store.
If you are putting bridge variants in the store put some of them as free additions as well. Dont put ALL the new bridge variants in the store. Same with ship exteriors. And races.
They're putting all the new cosmetic content in the store! Or so it seems. So there's no knew cool cosmetic content to the game now? Without having to pay for it? Im okay with some but not ALL of it.
I hope they continue development of course, I just hope half of that continued development doesnt end up in the C store.
Yea thats me in a way. I still think they should put out the same KIND of content they are also putting in the store.
If you are putting bridge variants in the store put some of them as free additions as well. Dont put ALL the new bridge variants in the store. Same with ship exteriors. And races.
They're putting all the new cosmetic content in the store! Or so it seems. So there's no knew cool cosmetic content to the game now? Without having to pay for it? Im okay with some but not ALL of it.
I hope they continue development of course, I just hope half of that continued development doesnt end up in the C store.
And thats why we are on the forums discussing it, so that the Devs read it, and listen to us yes?
The respecs and the character slots should be free
They are basic parts of the game not "fluff". The confusion they have created over skills with a distinct lack of decent information, is bad enough but finding you have to PAY to change your spec when you finally get some experience, is just bloody ridiculous.
As for the character slots, come on cryptic 3 character slots with 2 main races and 3 possible basic specs, this should be standard. In fact there should be a bare minimum of 6 character slots to start with not a pathetic 3.
Have cryptic turned this game in to a free to play browser game or something?? This is what they do not games we have to pay every month to play.
Points like this may seem trivial to the people with money to spare, but things like these are going to turn people away.
This really is money grabbing at its very worst. You are selling an incomplete game, then trying to sell parts that should be included as standard. If you want to make this a success take a leaf out of blizzards book and stop being money grabbers.
You said people see you as money grabbers wallowing in money in a recent interview, and now you prove the very point. I'm sorry but behaviour like this will ruin the game, stop it now and sort yourselves out. You will easily generate enough money to support the game and make a nice profit, by putting this stuff in game as standard. Driving people away by penny pinching isn't going to help you in the long run.
Well......I had planned on getting some slots. One at least. Depending on the cost. And that was as far as I was willing to go with it.
Some of the cosmetic things they are adding look good. I was looking forward to more bridges and ship exteriors. But nothing new added except for C Store stuff? Bleh.......
That too me is like them not adding it at all. I probably wont pay for it outside of my monthly sub. Even though, Id really like to see at least something released in game instead of C store.
a few things because I'm a little confused. they are filling out the C- store a bit, great that place has been looking sad, being so empty.does this mean they do not have any "free" new bridges and fed ships this go round? I'm personally fine with the updated stuff we are getting, new raid content and the like, its just the way they were marketing this update though, they rubbed me the wrong way a bit. It may be that it was only a recent decision to make this content C-store but I can not recall any mention of having to pay extra for the stuff. All the notes I recall lumped it in with the rest of the update and caused an expectation that it would be in the update as normal content. then again they told us before the patch so at least its something.
on an unrelated topic. will access to the captains table be in the C-store to buy? I did like that place, and if its cheep enough I might spring for that. worth more to me then a new bridge, though when they implemented Ready Rooms, I would expect the entrance to be moved there.
They let us stew for over a month with content missing, not bothering to answer anyone's queries or demands to get resolutions to their questions on additional content or missing content that should be there. And now in their "Season one" update, everything we've been asking for has conveniently been made available - as a CSTORE purchase, rather then freely delivered as it should be.
Am i the only one that thinks cryptic let the situation run as they did to find the most demanded content by players only to TRIBBLE players out of more money to get the content - when by all rights it should have been delivered when we purchased the game to begin with?
EDIT:
Just to clarify, here's my point, we get new "authentic" bridge variants coming in the next patch from the C-store, instead of the half assed ones they've provided us from launch, and our missing most wanted ships? Nebula, Excelsior, Obert, Constellation? They're there too ("Old Classics with a new twist")
Character slots i can live with, that makes sense, but if this content is conspicuously absent from launch, putting in the Cstore now reeks of nothing but moneygrabbing
While it is nice to have the bridge that really goes with the ship you have, since you can't really do anything on the bridge but sit in the captain's chair by standing on it, or run around looking at your officers doing their jobs. It really doesn't matter that much right now. Once they break out the ship where you can actually use the inside of it for something other than just sitting there watching a bunch of blinking lights on panels it's really not that big of a deal is it?
Comments
Where else can these wild speculations take us?
Thanks Daelin. Thats appreciated. Darmak made some fantastic points.
It would be a Hydra if Cryptic wasnt directly answering to Atari. Its more like an upside down tree. Cryptic answers to Atari, and has no say what they do with their supply of Cryptics product. Because essentially its Atari product.
Cryptic is on the frontlines here, they see and understand whats going on in the playerbase. Atari doesnt get to see the every day back and forth that Cryptic does. So Atari has a very jaded idea of whats going on. While Cryptic can see it clearly. Unfortunately Cryptic doesnt have the luxury of telling its boss it doesnt like what its doing.
It could work like that, but Im not so sure.
Im still under the impression that perhaps Cryptic IS Atari. Atari IS Cryptic.
Even over the recent Atari game 60 days free sale, when one of the GMs or mods made his apologetic statement, he said something along the lines of
" WE were trying something new. It was an experiment. WE thought it would garner more players." This is not a direct quote. I can look up the link if you'd like.
Now is that a Cryptic guy or an Atari one? I think they are both. Atari OWNS Cryptic. They are not partners. So if you are a Cryptic Employee you are an Atari employee.
Thats the way I theorize it. I could also be wrong.
ALSO, the date of the 60 days sale on the Atari site was wrong. I think it was Stormshade (maybe) that made a post here on the main site saying that HE fixed the typo. HE did it. I really think Atari and Cryptic are just different names for the same flower at this point.
I had always though the opposite actually, which could be totally wrong. A "merger" made partners, and talking about one is a kin to the other. Buying out on the other hand, would be like the buyer being dominant over the other, such that they say what the other does, and the other can't disobey or risk being fired.
Well to my knowledge Atari did BUY Cryptic. They bought them. Atari owns Cryptic.
I also added a bit to my last post. It came to mind after I wrote it.
I agree their statement is a bit confusing. But understand it from a point of view, your Boss isnt going to go to the fanbase and answer why they did something. Your boss is going to expect you the middle man and public figure for STO to make a statement about it.
The GM or Dev wont be able to say "Well the guys up at Atari decided they wanted to try something new" Cause that makes them seem like they arent playing on the same team (more of a show to Atari then us when they use "We").
I know this might not be a good example, but when I was in the Army over in Iraq, alot of times my Higher Ups made some stupid decisions about things that went on "on the ground" where they rarely were seen. But when those things came back to haunt us. It wasnt the Higher Ups that were apologizing and making amends. It was Us, the guys "on the ground". And we couldnt say, "Oh well it was our Commanders decision", because no one would accept that. We had to say "We" so that people understood we were taking their anger seriously and were serious about our guilt.
No no that makes total sense. I mean....it really hard to know and in a way I dont think it really matters all that much. Its a little scary to think about. And I dont like Atari. AT ALL.
But then there's no telling really. It could be very much like you say.
It could also be Cryptic taking responsibility for any sales decisions or anything regarding STO. Good or not. And they should. So who knows.
it is totally possible they are overseeing the sales. im just inclined to think that atari wouldnt partner with someone they bought out. i cant call cryptic what i want as its against tos and eula. but it a female dog, and a male child.
Bit TRIBBLE I'll have to shell out for the Excelsior skin I've been asking for since Open Beta.
What about the Ambassador class?
Erm just thought I should point out here that Zinc has implied that is was cryptics idea to do the 90 day promo......see my sig
See post above you
Sorry correction he implied it was the STO dev team not cryptic......eek sorry.....it's late and i'm tired haha
lol, same here I think this will be one of the last posts I make.
Think I will take the lazy route and get myself beamed straight into ma bed!!!
Have tech will snooze
The races, slots and ship stuff SHOULD be released as content and should NOT be used to nickle and dime the players who already pay subs. I bet Zinc and Dollar Bill are already laughing at this and I wonder who won the bet?
How much more will the playerbase take? I know a lot of people are not happy but will they do anything about it? I for one will be putting some stuff up on facebook regarding Cryptic and have a laugh.
Just keep plugging away at them......if you don't like how things are stay vocal!!
Sure it's not got us everything we have been asking for......but.....they are grudgingly conceeding that actually what the players want is what they should be giving.....it just means we have to keep it up and not give in.
As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew. Never give up... and never surrender.
Dang. Missed out on the free 240 points from doing the survey. But meh. It's just $3, and it sounds like the community got many of the same points I was going to make across.
EDIT: Btw, I could cite that Guild Wars and City of Heroes have the same micro-transaction setup, but then again one of those games has no monthly fee. :rolleyes::D
I am fine with having it in the C-store - as long as Cryptic use the revenue to continue development.
Until I left CO for STO, I was pleased to note that the C-store offerings were very much 'icing' and mostly special-interest. The mechanical beast and samurai costume set and the shaped capes were all things only a smallish set of people would probably ever want and use (not everyone even uses capes, after all). The Halloween costumes were, well, Halloween costumes and not exactly superhero gear (not that you couldn't get a lot of mileage out of some of the parts if you wanted). And at the same time they were rolling those out, they added and improved to the general set of selections - expanding hairstyles, adding new overwear types, making capes compatible with all costume options, etc.
In STO, the equivalent as I perceive it would be putting, say, the Excelsior and the Nebula into the general game because they're seen fairly frequently, are pretty iconic, and contemporary with designs in the game already. On the other hand, ships found only in the Wolf 359 debris field that have some following among fan communities - like the New Orleans - but not much general exposure or interest would be C-store appropriate.
Now, maybe this impression of how things are going to be in STO is wrong, and I would hope for a dev to clarify if so.
Content is storyline.
These C-Store items all seem appropriate to me.
The only one I question is Tellarite. They are founding race of the Federation, they should be included in the core game, not as an extra.
Thank God they didn't try to pull that with Andorians.
:P
man the game is missing the depth other mmos have successfully launched with. i and say successfully loosely. Im canceled myself. maybe a year from now new subs will be happy. but people who waited for this? Hell no. Its going to take alot longer. Ill take my money and time somewhere else. I can watch the real trek on dvd when i get bored.
Yea thats me in a way. I still think they should put out the same KIND of content they are also putting in the store.
If you are putting bridge variants in the store put some of them as free additions as well. Dont put ALL the new bridge variants in the store. Same with ship exteriors. And races.
They're putting all the new cosmetic content in the store! Or so it seems. So there's no knew cool cosmetic content to the game now? Without having to pay for it? Im okay with some but not ALL of it.
I hope they continue development of course, I just hope half of that continued development doesnt end up in the C store.
And thats why we are on the forums discussing it, so that the Devs read it, and listen to us yes?
They are basic parts of the game not "fluff". The confusion they have created over skills with a distinct lack of decent information, is bad enough but finding you have to PAY to change your spec when you finally get some experience, is just bloody ridiculous.
As for the character slots, come on cryptic 3 character slots with 2 main races and 3 possible basic specs, this should be standard. In fact there should be a bare minimum of 6 character slots to start with not a pathetic 3.
Have cryptic turned this game in to a free to play browser game or something?? This is what they do not games we have to pay every month to play.
Points like this may seem trivial to the people with money to spare, but things like these are going to turn people away.
This really is money grabbing at its very worst. You are selling an incomplete game, then trying to sell parts that should be included as standard. If you want to make this a success take a leaf out of blizzards book and stop being money grabbers.
You said people see you as money grabbers wallowing in money in a recent interview, and now you prove the very point. I'm sorry but behaviour like this will ruin the game, stop it now and sort yourselves out. You will easily generate enough money to support the game and make a nice profit, by putting this stuff in game as standard. Driving people away by penny pinching isn't going to help you in the long run.
DONT PAY FOR STUFF YOU ALREADY PAY FOR!!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Seadgir
Well......I had planned on getting some slots. One at least. Depending on the cost. And that was as far as I was willing to go with it.
Some of the cosmetic things they are adding look good. I was looking forward to more bridges and ship exteriors. But nothing new added except for C Store stuff? Bleh.......
That too me is like them not adding it at all. I probably wont pay for it outside of my monthly sub. Even though, Id really like to see at least something released in game instead of C store.
on an unrelated topic. will access to the captains table be in the C-store to buy? I did like that place, and if its cheep enough I might spring for that. worth more to me then a new bridge, though when they implemented Ready Rooms, I would expect the entrance to be moved there.