I like the rank set up for the most part except for the top and the bottom. I agree with others that a Lieutenant should not be in command of a Light Cruiser and that Admirals should not be a dime a dozen and running combat missions on a planets surface (no matter how much I appreciate their help in "Breaking the Planet"). I can't think of a good solution for the Lt-thing, so I would just have to say "whatever" it's a time of war... but the Admiral-thing should be changed to 20 grades/2 Tiers of Captain. Admiral and Commodore should only exist as "titles" for characters who have reached Captain 11 and are the Leader of a Fleet (with Commodore being the standard and Admiral for the Large Fleets.) All of the folks who have already made Rear Admiral should be given some sort of special title to ease their suffering, of course. I would recommend a good example from canon: "Fleet Captain." I will keep my character's title set at Captain when I reach Admiral.
Of course, if they wont change it, I will accept that too.
Argh, Commodore is still a flag rank, and its no longer valid. Commodores are 1 star admirals, and the rank was replaced with Rear Admiral Lower Half. Besides as i keep telling everyone, Admirals would command a starship in a time of war. And Fleet Captain is not a rank, its a position.
Any individual in command of a starship is a Captain. Thats why even when you're an ensign, you're BO's refer to you as Captian. Even an Admiral in command of a starship is a Captain. Not in rank, but position.
Going by your Memory Alpha link it would seem that the rank "Commodore" is accounted for by quite a bit of the Star Trek canon. Sure you can argue that "Commodore" is functionally identical with what they call (with a mouthful) a "lower half rear Admiral" but for the purposes of this game it A) follows Star Trek canon and does not make use of the word 'Admiral'. I suspect most of the people who seem to have a problem with the Admiral rank in this game would probably be able to stomach the whole thing better if STO just cut-n-pasted one word for the other.
At least we know Commodores actually sat in the captain's chair in Star Trek. There's Commodore Wesley in "The Ultimate Computer" and Commodore Decker in "The Doomsday Machine". Decker apparently didn't even have anything other than the USS Constellation under his command so there's no worry about this rank designation "needing" multiple ships and/or a fleet for it to make sense.
Again I'll stress this change is not really needed. But if Cryptic ever decided to make a change like this renaming Admiral to Commodore would probably solve the most problems raised by everyone involved for the least amount of effort. And at the very least it would give them room to reuse Admiral again in a future expansion.
I don't agree with this idea at all. Not saying your idea is bad, nor am I going to flame you for suggesting it, I just don't like the idea of change. Besides, I like the idea of being an admiral some day. Stopping at captain would just irritate me and I am sure alot of the rp players would be upset with this as well. It would interfere with the rp they have already built upon and formed their rp fleets with.
Theoretically if the Admiral rank were removed from the game now it would give Cryptic something to work with when they raise the level cap from 45 to 50 for instance. Of course at this point we may never know how that might have worked out one way or the other.
My suggestion is similar to one in the other thread on ranks:
Ensign (Lv 1 - 10) - Runabouts, Mission Scouts (from insurrection), Delta Flyer types only
Lieutenant (Lv11-20) - Same as before
Lieutenant commander (Lv21-30) - Same as before
Commander (Lv31-40) - Same as before
Captain (Lv41-50) - Same as before
Rear Admiral (Not commodore, that rank doesnt exist in 24th century) (Lv51-60) - 1 pip admiral, gets a dreadnaught
Admiral (lv61-65) - extra ships in fleet instead of new ships.
If you want to expand to have LTJG, then you do this:
the reasoning behind this, in DS9: Valiant, Nog says that he's heard of cadets and ensigns getting command of a shuttle or runabout, but nothing the size of a Defiant class ship, so small ships like the runabouts are perfect for ensigns and multi-role small craft like the DF and MS are perfect for junior LTs.
The ranks are fine especially since you can set your pips and title once you earn it. I would rather see the devs work on something more productive than this.
Theoretically if the Admiral rank were removed from the game now it would give Cryptic something to work with when they raise the level cap from 45 to 50 for instance. Of course at this point we may never know how that might have worked out one way or the other.
I'm actually of the mind that they should look at Rear Admiral for level 50-60, and make the next expansion a "fleet" expansion. Players could essentially command a small fleet of starships, all lower tier, of course.
An Admiral without a fleet is called a desk jockey.
Id go further and suggest they offer ground or space specialization, and you can have ranks based on that--
If you choose ground spec - you get
Tutorial (Academy): Cadet
1-9 Private
10-19: Corporal
20-29: Sargeant
30-39: 2nd Lieutenant
40-49: 1st Lieutenant
50-59: Captain
60-69: Major
70-79: Lt Colonel
80-89: Colonel
90-99: Brig. General
100: Major General
And add bonuses such as if you choose space as your spec you get to command small fleets at commodore (1 extra ship per rank) and if you choose ground spec you can have larger and larger ground teams at Major (1 extra NPC per rank).
Where do admirals command fleets from? THEIR STARSHIPS. Fleet Admiral Nechayev (5 Star) had command of USS Soveriegn at one time.
"Following the Dominion War, Admiral Nechayev became Commander-in-Chief of Starfleet. She frequently made use of the USS Sovereign as her flagship, and was at one point briefly replaced by her mirror universe counterpart. (Star Trek novels: Spectre, Dark Victory, Preserver) "
Who commands fleets in battle? Admirals. Where do they do it from? A Captains Yaught? A Runabout? A Shuttlecraft? An Escape Pod? >.>
And as far as Commodores go, The pip for a commodore in ENT was a single pip in a box. The pip for Rear Admiral in this game is a..... A single pip in a box. In Earth History a Commodore may have been a higher captain, but in Star Trek they Equate to a Rear Admiral Lower Half. Kirk In ST:III was a RALH and he was expecting them to refit Enterprise and give him back command to go to genesis. As seen in the scene in the torpedo bay with the Starfleet C-in-C.
A Flag Ship is so named because it is the ship on which a flag officer chooses to place their flag. When that flag officer is not on board, the ship's doesn't sit in drydock. It has a captain of its own. And Admirals simply do not command ships.
Can you imagine Nelson having commanded the HMS Victory while also commanding the entire Royal Fleet at Trafalgar? Of course not! Samuel Sutton was the Captain of the Victory. Nelson wouldn't have been able to both command a ship and a fleet.
Captains command ships. While it is true that a lower ranking officer might command a ship (many small escorts, corvettes, gunboats, etc... are captained by Lieutenants IRL), Admirals simply don't.
Considering that with any effort given, you reach Admiral in 2-3 weeks at most, it's ridiculous that this is the top rank rather than Captain. What the hell kind of Starfleet has 100,000 admirals all running around with no junior officers to command?
Now, of course, you can set your rank to Captain (or any lower rank) if you wish, but the NPC's all still call you "Rear Admiral". I wish they'd fix that, so that mission givers, mission NPC's, and your own crew referred to you as the rank you had selected as your title.
A Flag Ship is so named because it is the ship on which a flag officer chooses to place their flag. When that flag officer is not on board, the ship's doesn't sit in drydock. It has a captain of its own. And Admirals simply do not command ships.
Can you imagine Nelson having commanded the HMS Victory while also commanding the entire Royal Fleet at Trafalgar? Of course not! Samuel Sutton was the Captain of the Victory. Nelson wouldn't have been able to both command a ship and a fleet.
Captains command ships. While it is true that a lower ranking officer might command a ship (many small escorts, corvettes, gunboats, etc... are captained by Lieutenants IRL), Admirals simply don't.
Correct. Admirals don't command ships. Flagships have a captain who is the acutal commander of the ship. Admirals command fleets/task forces, and battles. In the US Navy, a carrier task force will usually have an admiral commanding it, and he probably is aboard the carrier as his flagship, but he isn't the officer in command of the ship, it will have a captain. The flagship captain is usually the second in command of the fleet, but he only commands the flagship.
Correct. Admirals don't command ships. Flagships have a captain who is the acutal commander of the ship. Admirals command fleets/task forces, and battles. In the US Navy, a carrier task force will usually have an admiral commanding it, and he probably is aboard the carrier as his flagship, but he isn't the officer in command of the ship, it will have a captain. The flagship captain is usually the second in command of the fleet, but he only commands the flagship.
Exactly.
I was thinking about things, though, and I might have a compromise.
What if we left Rear Admiral in place as 41+ but added one requirement...
In order to receive the title Rear Admiral you must not only be 41+, but you also must be a "guild leader" of your own player Fleet?
If you hit Captain 11+ you automatically get access to tier 5 ships and all other abilities that would have been associated with the Rear Admiral rank, but you stay a Captain.
Now, like I said, I'm staying Captain one way or another. This is just me nit-picking. But I think it would be a fair compromise.
Scrap that. Thinking about Star Trek, STO should really only have three ranks Captaining Ships - Commander, Captain and Commadore. In Star Trek, the type of ship a Captain gets commision of is not based upon his rank or senority but rather his past acomplishments. Translating this to STO, you should "buy" ths ships within your rank with Star Fleet Merrits. Whilst we're on about buying stuff, can we please change "energy credits" to "Gold-pressed Latinum". If we're going to have a Star Trek game, let's try keep it as authentic to the IP as possible eh?
You, the player, have the option of choosing which rank, if any, you want to have floating over your head. You, the player, have the option of choosing which rank insignia, if any, you want to have displayed on your uniform.
You, the OP and those who have agreed with the OP, need to learn how to think for yourself.
The idea of an Ensign commanding a ship is laughable. Even a Lt is highly unlikely. I believe Lts may have commanded PT boats in WWII, but an actual ship?
Restructuring the ranks is impossible / impractical anyway.
I would like to see Admiral re-named, maybe to Fleet Captain or Commodore.
The only way the Cadet rank would work is if they changed the tutorial to you being in the Academy, which I think is a better idea anyways. You could go through the academy, graduate, and become an Ensign.
As you can see above, this would provide a long and exciting career. Unfortunately, this would require Cryptic to change the premise of the game from that being the UFP at war to "You" living an exciting life as a Starfleet Officer. The missions would change in content each rank you gained, to show that you're moving through the ranks. A Lt. would have missions that require more responsibility than the missions ran by an Ensign and so on.
I agree with this one. I see someone remembered 'Commodore' ! Good. This looks like a nice well thought out rank process.
Scrap that. Thinking about Star Trek, STO should really only have three ranks Captaining Ships - Commander, Captain and Commadore. In Star Trek, the type of ship a Captain gets commision of is not based upon his rank or senority but rather his past acomplishments. Translating this to STO, you should "buy" ths ships within your rank with Star Fleet Merrits. Whilst we're on about buying stuff, can we please change "energy credits" to "Gold-pressed Latinum". If we're going to have a Star Trek game, let's try keep it as authentic to the IP as possible eh?
Technically A Lt Cmdr is a Command Grade Officer, hence the commander, so might wanna throw them into that lot too.
And once again, Commodore has not existed as a rank in Starfleet since the late 22's, so why are we bringing it back now?
Considering that with any effort given, you reach Admiral in 2-3 weeks at most, it's ridiculous that this is the top rank rather than Captain. What the hell kind of Starfleet has 100,000 admirals all running around with no junior officers to command?
Now, of course, you can set your rank to Captain (or any lower rank) if you wish, but the NPC's all still call you "Rear Admiral". I wish they'd fix that, so that mission givers, mission NPC's, and your own crew referred to you as the rank you had selected as your title.
I second this!
If we're going to have to "pretend" we're still captains at that rank, can they at least make it easier on us?
This is all an excersize in futility, dev said they're not changing the ranks, and if they did the other half of the people would complain about the new ranks, me being one, so why don't we just accept it as it is and move on.
The only way the Cadet rank would work is if they changed the tutorial to you being in the Academy, which I think is a better idea anyways. You could go through the academy, graduate, and become an Ensign.
As you can see above, this would provide a long and exciting career. Unfortunately, this would require Cryptic to change the premise of the game from that being the UFP at war to "You" living an exciting life as a Starfleet Officer. The missions would change in content each rank you gained, to show that you're moving through the ranks. A Lt. would have missions that require more responsibility than the missions ran by an Ensign and so on.
I like it! NOW all we need is the content to support it!
I'd love to have the opportunity for the COMMODORE rank - then I can finally have my crazed Commodore Matt Decker III go after the Doomsday Machine in all it's RP glory!
In all seriousness tho, I think that the current Admiral rank is a tad bit too obtainable in the current format. But as people have stated - the ranks aren't going to change so I guess my opinion is summarily moot at this point.
In hindsight, according to the various series in total - think about how many Admirals you actually either saw or heard of, versus the amount of captains and commanders - or even commodores.
Technically A Lt Cmdr is a Command Grade Officer, hence the commander, so might wanna throw them into that lot too.
And once again, Commodore has not existed as a rank in Starfleet since the late 22's, so why are we bringing it back now?
How do you know it hasn't existed? Just because it hasn't been onscreen and book writers have lacked the imagination necessary to create them, doesn't mean Starfleet scrapped the rank.
Technically A Lt Cmdr is a Command Grade Officer, hence the commander, so might wanna throw them into that lot too.
And once again, Commodore has not existed as a rank in Starfleet since the late 22's, so why are we bringing it back now?
Because it's better than giving a Rear Admiral command of a ship?
And on the latter point about this being an exercise in futility, I think most of us who are posting are doing so because we are bored at work and not able to actually play. Hence, we figure we may as well debate useless topics. =D
They deliberately removed it in the TNG era since Gene Roddenberry wanted the production team to match ranks with the US navy. Commodore was removed from the navy a few years before TNG aired, so he removed it from starfleet's rank system too.
They deliberately removed it in the TNG era since Gene Roddenberry wanted the production team to match ranks with the US navy. Commodore was removed from the navy a few years before TNG aired, so he removed it from starfleet's rank system too.
THERE IS NO COMMODORE RANK.
THERE WAS NO COMMODORE RANK at the end of the movies, either. But then Data was dead too, yet the game insists he took over B4 and is now commanding the Enterprise. There is PLENTY of room for Commodore to be brought back as a rank.
You're not the only one who can type alotta caps...
Comments
I like the rank set up for the most part except for the top and the bottom. I agree with others that a Lieutenant should not be in command of a Light Cruiser and that Admirals should not be a dime a dozen and running combat missions on a planets surface (no matter how much I appreciate their help in "Breaking the Planet"). I can't think of a good solution for the Lt-thing, so I would just have to say "whatever" it's a time of war... but the Admiral-thing should be changed to 20 grades/2 Tiers of Captain. Admiral and Commodore should only exist as "titles" for characters who have reached Captain 11 and are the Leader of a Fleet (with Commodore being the standard and Admiral for the Large Fleets.) All of the folks who have already made Rear Admiral should be given some sort of special title to ease their suffering, of course. I would recommend a good example from canon: "Fleet Captain." I will keep my character's title set at Captain when I reach Admiral.
Of course, if they wont change it, I will accept that too.
Going by your Memory Alpha link it would seem that the rank "Commodore" is accounted for by quite a bit of the Star Trek canon. Sure you can argue that "Commodore" is functionally identical with what they call (with a mouthful) a "lower half rear Admiral" but for the purposes of this game it A) follows Star Trek canon and
At least we know Commodores actually sat in the captain's chair in Star Trek. There's Commodore Wesley in "The Ultimate Computer" and Commodore Decker in "The Doomsday Machine". Decker apparently didn't even have anything other than the USS Constellation under his command so there's no worry about this rank designation "needing" multiple ships and/or a fleet for it to make sense.
Again I'll stress this change is not really needed. But if Cryptic ever decided to make a change like this renaming Admiral to Commodore would probably solve the most problems raised by everyone involved for the least amount of effort. And at the very least it would give them room to reuse Admiral again in a future expansion.
Ensign (Lv 1 - 10) - Runabouts, Mission Scouts (from insurrection), Delta Flyer types only
Lieutenant (Lv11-20) - Same as before
Lieutenant commander (Lv21-30) - Same as before
Commander (Lv31-40) - Same as before
Captain (Lv41-50) - Same as before
Rear Admiral (Not commodore, that rank doesnt exist in 24th century) (Lv51-60) - 1 pip admiral, gets a dreadnaught
Admiral (lv61-65) - extra ships in fleet instead of new ships.
If you want to expand to have LTJG, then you do this:
Ensign (lv1-10) - runabout
LTJG (lv11-20) - Delta Flyer, Mission Scouts, Argo shuttle
the reasoning behind this, in DS9: Valiant, Nog says that he's heard of cadets and ensigns getting command of a shuttle or runabout, but nothing the size of a Defiant class ship, so small ships like the runabouts are perfect for ensigns and multi-role small craft like the DF and MS are perfect for junior LTs.
/notsigned
I'm actually of the mind that they should look at Rear Admiral for level 50-60, and make the next expansion a "fleet" expansion. Players could essentially command a small fleet of starships, all lower tier, of course.
An Admiral without a fleet is called a desk jockey.
If you choose ground spec - you get
Tutorial (Academy): Cadet
1-9 Private
10-19: Corporal
20-29: Sargeant
30-39: 2nd Lieutenant
40-49: 1st Lieutenant
50-59: Captain
60-69: Major
70-79: Lt Colonel
80-89: Colonel
90-99: Brig. General
100: Major General
And add bonuses such as if you choose space as your spec you get to command small fleets at commodore (1 extra ship per rank) and if you choose ground spec you can have larger and larger ground teams at Major (1 extra NPC per rank).
A Flag Ship is so named because it is the ship on which a flag officer chooses to place their flag. When that flag officer is not on board, the ship's doesn't sit in drydock. It has a captain of its own. And Admirals simply do not command ships.
Can you imagine Nelson having commanded the HMS Victory while also commanding the entire Royal Fleet at Trafalgar? Of course not! Samuel Sutton was the Captain of the Victory. Nelson wouldn't have been able to both command a ship and a fleet.
Captains command ships. While it is true that a lower ranking officer might command a ship (many small escorts, corvettes, gunboats, etc... are captained by Lieutenants IRL), Admirals simply don't.
Now, of course, you can set your rank to Captain (or any lower rank) if you wish, but the NPC's all still call you "Rear Admiral". I wish they'd fix that, so that mission givers, mission NPC's, and your own crew referred to you as the rank you had selected as your title.
Correct. Admirals don't command ships. Flagships have a captain who is the acutal commander of the ship. Admirals command fleets/task forces, and battles. In the US Navy, a carrier task force will usually have an admiral commanding it, and he probably is aboard the carrier as his flagship, but he isn't the officer in command of the ship, it will have a captain. The flagship captain is usually the second in command of the fleet, but he only commands the flagship.
Exactly.
I was thinking about things, though, and I might have a compromise.
What if we left Rear Admiral in place as 41+ but added one requirement...
In order to receive the title Rear Admiral you must not only be 41+, but you also must be a "guild leader" of your own player Fleet?
If you hit Captain 11+ you automatically get access to tier 5 ships and all other abilities that would have been associated with the Rear Admiral rank, but you stay a Captain.
Now, like I said, I'm staying Captain one way or another. This is just me nit-picking. But I think it would be a fair compromise.
You, the OP and those who have agreed with the OP, need to learn how to think for yourself.
/10chars
Restructuring the ranks is impossible / impractical anyway.
I would like to see Admiral re-named, maybe to Fleet Captain or Commodore.
I agree with this one. I see someone remembered 'Commodore' ! Good. This looks like a nice well thought out rank process.
/sign this one
Technically A Lt Cmdr is a Command Grade Officer, hence the commander, so might wanna throw them into that lot too.
And once again, Commodore has not existed as a rank in Starfleet since the late 22's, so why are we bringing it back now?
I second this!
If we're going to have to "pretend" we're still captains at that rank, can they at least make it easier on us?
I like it! NOW all we need is the content to support it!
In all seriousness tho, I think that the current Admiral rank is a tad bit too obtainable in the current format. But as people have stated - the ranks aren't going to change so I guess my opinion is summarily moot at this point.
In hindsight, according to the various series in total - think about how many Admirals you actually either saw or heard of, versus the amount of captains and commanders - or even commodores.
/sign - for what it's worth.
How do you know it hasn't existed? Just because it hasn't been onscreen and book writers have lacked the imagination necessary to create them, doesn't mean Starfleet scrapped the rank.
Because it's better than giving a Rear Admiral command of a ship?
And on the latter point about this being an exercise in futility, I think most of us who are posting are doing so because we are bored at work and not able to actually play. Hence, we figure we may as well debate useless topics. =D
THERE IS NO MORE COMMODORE RANK.
They deliberately removed it in the TNG era since Gene Roddenberry wanted the production team to match ranks with the US navy. Commodore was removed from the navy a few years before TNG aired, so he removed it from starfleet's rank system too.
THERE IS NO COMMODORE RANK.
THERE WAS NO COMMODORE RANK at the end of the movies, either. But then Data was dead too, yet the game insists he took over B4 and is now commanding the Enterprise. There is PLENTY of room for Commodore to be brought back as a rank.
You're not the only one who can type alotta caps...