for those that want some kind of mini game. well that might be fun as part of a mission or the firs ttime but can you imagine dying ten times in a row, spending five minutes in ground combat aboard your ship between every 2 minutes of play?
Yeah, maybe this is a bit off the wall...
...but seriously, how often do you die? Seriously? Is it more than once a night? How?? I mean seriously... what are you doing??
Could you post a vid? I mean I just don't get how people are dying so frequently that a death penalty scares them.
Unless, you know, their whole tactical play style is predicated on the notion that they want to do as much dps as possible until they bite it, then respawn 15km away. If that's the case, I have zero sympathy for you. That's not how the game is supposed to be played.
Please post a vid of you dying with something above 25 invested in shields and where you use at least one defensive power other than EPtS at least once.
Hardly ever and doesn't matter, and you typically spawn about 20km, the point is YOU find it easy but people have posted that game is hard, so my statement of easy and hard is subjective stands, period.
for those that want some kind of mini game. well that might be fun as part of a mission or the firs ttime but can you imagine dying ten times in a row, spending five minutes in ground combat aboard your ship between every 2 minutes of play?
Death Penalty is coming within the next month. Craig Z has confirmed it in an interview that was released today. They are hammering out some ideas and working out the details.
Get used to the idea and be ready to deal with it.
Death Penalty is coming within the next month. Craig Z has confirmed it in an interview that was released today. They are hammering out some ideas and working out the details.
Get used to the idea and be ready to deal with it.
Simple as that.
Cheers!
Bottom_Line_Canuck
well that's not nice, but I saw that you mite be able to turn it off, and on, but when turned on you get more skills, and better item drops.
Death Penalty is coming within the next month. Craig Z has confirmed it in an interview that was released today. They are hammering out some ideas and working out the details.
Get used to the idea and be ready to deal with it.
Simple as that.
Cheers!
Bottom_Line_Canuck
Zinkievich explained Cryptic's feelings on death penalties, saying that they are usually just a time penalty, preventing players from getting straight back into the game and having fun.
we are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens. But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty.
Means they are looking into it, but since all DPs are proven abitrary and meaningless time sinks I can't see how they could come up with something meaningful.
its clear if they cave into the weak demands that the game is meaningful and more challenging with a penalty then they have not done thier homework.
DPs don't make the enemies behave differently so its arbitrary punishment, they don't make enemies hit harder so its arbitrary punishment, they don't make they enemies survive better so its arbitrary punishment, they don't teach you so its arbitrary punishment. They just add time, in the form of waiting for a debuff to wear off or ensuring you have the resources to stave off the DP just time.
But what they come up with could be a simple as making the respawn timer 30 seconds, the respawn place always the beginning of the map, or the encounter you lost on resetting, all the way to perma death or loss of ship, or nothing, not only that there is no indication when anything will be released.
I guess that because the game is so easy that the death penalty should be uber severe. How about - You lose your ship, half your bridge crew, 40% of your credits, and you fail the mission entirely. Also, if your in a guild: the guild will take a two-week de-buff on all rewards received from fleet actions. This will support co-operative players and eliminate stingy sit-at-spawn players.
Also, we should be able to attack anybody at any time, federation allies be dammed! Make PvE a thing of the past. I want to take my galaxy up against a defiant!
It definitely needs some sort of penalty. Losing Crew and on a rare chance a BO would give it a better a feel that you were actually a good captain protecting his crew, not some butcher sending everyone to die because the end justify the means. Having a crew penalty would make it harder to finish the mission and losing a high level bridge office would be most frustrating but would not set you as far back as taking an XP Penalty.
It definitely needs some sort of penalty. Losing Crew and on a rare chance a BO would give it a better a feel that you were actually a good captain protecting his crew, not some butcher sending everyone to die because the end justify the means. Having a crew penalty would make it harder to finish the mission and losing a high level bridge office would be most frustrating but would not set you as far back as taking an XP Penalty.
Just what casual players need, your phone rings you die now you may not finish the mission you spent 30 mins on all cause of an arbitrary penalty, thats sounds delightful, what's the lesson to be learned by this great idea of a DP? oh yes only play the game if you shut off your phone electrifiy your doors and are being fed by a tube, distractions of like real life are not welcome here.
It definitely needs some sort of penalty. Losing Crew and on a rare chance a BO would give it a better a feel that you were actually a good captain protecting his crew, not some butcher sending everyone to die because the end justify the means. Having a crew penalty would make it harder to finish the mission and losing a high level bridge office would be most frustrating but would not set you as far back as taking an XP Penalty.
And lets see how much whinning would happen the momment you lose that Purple Tactical Boff you spent thousands of skill points on to bring up thier skills.
I've seen only a few people in favour of harsher death penalty. But i've seen more people who want to stay the way it is, or if a small DP is added, without great debuffs, time sinks or money.
15 second respawn for infinite zerg is not a penalty.
The Crystalline Entity has a perfect death penalty. When you die, you lose nothing. The CE heals itself depending how many shards smashed in to your ship and it heals.
Although if you keep dying, you'll never win. If your TEAM keeps dying, you'll never win. You lose nothing but time lost zerging the thing instead of coming up with a plan that works.
There has to be an end game "catch" to keep playing, otherwise they risk the fate of Warhammer Online. I hope a Holodeck (player created episodes) will be an answer, it seems like a good solution for this style game.
I'm not worried about an 'end game'. It's the early-middle-late game that concerns me. I like playing alts. Unfortunately, STO isn't particularly alt-friendly at present, because there aren't enough missions to provide any variety at all - it's the same missions over and over and over regardless of what class, race, or ship you choose. So, rather than an 'end game' I'd prefer...
Missions spanning a character's entire career from Ensign to RA, designed specifically for:
Engineering Officers
Tactical Officers
Science Officers
Each playable race
So that my Engineering captain won't be doing the same old same old 'stock' missions my Science captain has already done half a dozen times over (while teaming with friends), and my Andorian captain can do missions that might just provide a sense of what it's like to be Andorian besides just being blue with antennae.
THIS is what would keep me playing - and paying.
Oh, and before I forget, even though it's obviously falling on deaf ears (or at least, ears with selective hearing): HELL NO to the DP!
Basically I want a credit sink. It would make the money in the game have meaning.
Like many of the reasons to have a Death Penalty I agree here - but it misses the point. That is that currentlly blowing up (and yes, even a very rare instance on the ground) is a death by no fault of your own. this would force many player to avoid specific aspects of the game.
Indeed, especially in an escort that dies *fast* I've been in places that I died 10-15 times to get away. The Romulan sectors were *really* bad for this if you wanted to play random space encounters - even if you immediately hit "exit sector" you could *still* die in the time it took you to enter warp, let alone if you actually wanted to play the game. Further Escorts (haven't been in that area on other ships yet) die so fast and the situation is so common it could take me as long as 45 minutes to an hour when i was futilely trying to avoid death, once I accepted it and let it happen until I could get away then things worked well.
Further there are still places as Captain 5 that I get one shotted - not much I can do over that. Yea, I *could* hold back to no less than 8KM, run like a baby every time anything came in that range, and basically be useless but - really? It's not like it is that often but give me much of a DP and I will think on it really hard.
For most of these it isn't a regularly occurring thing. I agree that most battles are easy: ground combat is unloosable and at least there are a handful of space combats that take either some over levelling or tactics to win. But over all - yea fairly easy game. The issue with a Dp that is more than just instance based is when you *do* hit that place where you die you do over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (need I go on?). Until/unless that is fixed anything more than an instance based DP is going to hurt the game. For that to even be a choice requires a number of changes to many systems.
Personally I like the Guild Wars system - instance based and cumulative on your instance. Go outside of that and it's all reset, within that set you can't zerg something to death. We aren't that far from that - unless you are in a group instance health is restored to full (never understood why shields weren't too) after your death so you almost start from the beginning (NPC's count as group members and can keep their health from resetting). I do not like the zerg mentality that can happen, yet there are a myriad of cases where it takes a number of deaths to figure out what is going on. GW balances that by letting you "work" your DP off and it only being per instance, once you reach a town (sector space) it is all gone.
That model makes it such that you can't simply use a death to insta-heal, yet a death isn't the end of the world. The game has you "work off" DP (that is so many XP points removes so much DP) so a good player that just happens on bad luck isn't screwed - good players never see it. Yet it keeps us from rushing an objective, dying, and respawn/kill everything.
I see no reason this model wouldn't work for STO. the instanced idea is similar and the non-zerging idea is too. Guild Wars has *no* zerging going on yet no one complains about of lack of DP. Yes, I'm sure this will not be the case here (there are a certain amount of Eve players who want that level of DP here and will complain, yet this effectively solves the gameplay issues (of which I agree no DP whatsoever does introduce).
Ah damn, it's optional and I don't need that level of immersion. Some might though. Maybe we should have exploding keyboards for those who want immersion?
The only immersion I require is an orion slave girl. Now if you want immersion, that's what we need.
The answer is option DP for those who want immersion. Pick it in your OPTIONS settings. Since, those who want DP want this to increase the realism/immersion, they will not require a greater reward(s). Problem solved. These are not the droids you are looking for, move along...
The answer is option DP for those who want immersion. Pick it in your OPTIONS settings. Since, those who want DP want this to increase the realism/immersion, they will not require a greater reward(s). Problem solved. These are not the droids you are looking for, move along...
lol immersion? in this game? lemme go find that thread
I guess your money is greener than mine. Bully for you.
Let me fill you in
Q- (From Anthony Pascale) What about word of a Death Penalty?
CZ - This is one of those things that is "living proof" of working with the community and listening to them. Personnaly, I don't believe in Death Penalties. I don't believe it adds to the game and that most players don't like them either. Well, guess what... "I was wrong". We are in the process of putting together ideas that makes the combat a bit more risky and limiting the "easier way outs" that people have been using in missions. There are a few things that are being played with internally. I see it in the "nearer term" than in the future. Definitely in the next month or so.
Q - Pascal asks if the criticizims (from players and reviewers) like ease of missions, lack of Klingon content and finish, etc. Do they feel they are fair or unfair and are things going to be done about them?
CZ - What drives our development is NOT the reviews but rather what the players feel. Reviews are what they are. We knew that STO would be polarizing, that some might love the innovation and others might not "get it". There are issues that they would like to develop on, however where reviews OVERLAP with the community comments, then THAT's something to look at. So not necessarily what is in the reviews, but rather what is echoed in the forums.
Q- (From Anthony Pascale) What about word of a Death Penalty?
CZ - This is one of those things that is "living proof" of working with the community and listening to them. Personnaly, I don't believe in Death Penalties. I don't believe it adds to the game and that most players don't like them either. Well, guess what... "I was wrong". We are in the process of putting together ideas that makes the combat a bit more risky and limiting the "easier way outs" that people have been using in missions. There are a few things that are being played with internally. I see it in the "nearer term" than in the future. Definitely in the next month or so.
Q - Pascal asks if the criticizims (from players and reviewers) like ease of missions, lack of Klingon content and finish, etc. Do they feel they are fair or unfair and are things going to be done about them?
CZ - What drives our development is NOT the reviews but rather what the players feel. Reviews are what they are. We knew that STO would be polarizing, that some might love the innovation and others might not "get it". There are issues that they would like to develop on, however where reviews OVERLAP with the community comments, then THAT's something to look at. So not necessarily what is in the reviews, but rather what is echoed in the forums.
It's a done deal!
Death Penalty FTW!
I'm sure if we end up doing as much noise as you and the small, very small minority did we will have it restated the way it is. Or they end up doing a DP that won't fill in your level of punishment....
All an increased death penalty will do is get rid of all 1st timers to mmos like most of the trekkies and 1st timers to mmos lol. Then who will I have to pwn in pvp?
A death penalty isnt needed here anymore than there alrdy is one....look at xbox games hardly any even have cheats anymore why???? Cuz death penalty isnt soo strict, its the latest trend in gaming sorry bras but wow was like soo 8 years ago.
Just my opinion-- This game doesn't need a death penalty. It's really fine the way it is without one. If you lose you respawn and try again at what you failed at until you can move on. Not being able to advance or gain the reward for the mission and having to retry it is penalty enough. The idea of adding something in that takes away from the player or hurts them is not cool. I don't care about risk. I just care about having fun and earning things, not having them taken away if I somehow TRIBBLE up. Don't change things Cryptic, or if you do, please make death penalties optional that way those who want them can have them and those who are happy with the way things are don't have to worry.
15 second respawn for infinite zerg is not a penalty.
The Crystalline Entity has a perfect death penalty. When you die, you lose nothing. The CE heals itself depending how many shards smashed in to your ship and it heals.
Although if you keep dying, you'll never win. If your TEAM keeps dying, you'll never win. You lose nothing but time lost zerging the thing instead of coming up with a plan that works.
As ****ing infuriating as the Crystalline Entity is to fight (more due to the obscene shard spam and their durability than the regeneration mechanic), it's a wonderful example of why DPs are unnecessary.
There has to be an end game "catch" to keep playing, otherwise they risk the fate of Warhammer Online. I hope a Holodeck (player created episodes) will be an answer, it seems like a good solution for this style game.
Funny you use WAR as an example of failure.. WAR has both a PvE and a PvP death penalty. WAR failed due to PvP balance (since PvP was the primary "end-game"). Then again you do not always let pesky facts get in the way of posting sometimes it seems.
Basically I want a credit sink. It would make the money in the game have meaning.
Then spend money, buy TRIBBLE and delete it, I spend lots of credits, badges and merits up grading my ship, BOs, and customizing my ship.
Stop whining and do something for yourself dont rely on being forced to **** money away for nothing good loard are all of you so uninspired that you can't do anything without the devs forcing you?
Comments
Hardly ever and doesn't matter, and you typically spawn about 20km, the point is YOU find it easy but people have posted that game is hard, so my statement of easy and hard is subjective stands, period.
Don't die 10 times in a row.
Don't die.
Get used to the idea and be ready to deal with it.
Simple as that.
Cheers!
Bottom_Line_Canuck
well that's not nice, but I saw that you mite be able to turn it off, and on, but when turned on you get more skills, and better item drops.
Means they are looking into it, but since all DPs are proven abitrary and meaningless time sinks I can't see how they could come up with something meaningful.
its clear if they cave into the weak demands that the game is meaningful and more challenging with a penalty then they have not done thier homework.
DPs don't make the enemies behave differently so its arbitrary punishment, they don't make enemies hit harder so its arbitrary punishment, they don't make they enemies survive better so its arbitrary punishment, they don't teach you so its arbitrary punishment. They just add time, in the form of waiting for a debuff to wear off or ensuring you have the resources to stave off the DP just time.
But what they come up with could be a simple as making the respawn timer 30 seconds, the respawn place always the beginning of the map, or the encounter you lost on resetting, all the way to perma death or loss of ship, or nothing, not only that there is no indication when anything will be released.
Also, we should be able to attack anybody at any time, federation allies be dammed! Make PvE a thing of the past. I want to take my galaxy up against a defiant!
Just what casual players need, your phone rings you die now you may not finish the mission you spent 30 mins on all cause of an arbitrary penalty, thats sounds delightful, what's the lesson to be learned by this great idea of a DP? oh yes only play the game if you shut off your phone electrifiy your doors and are being fed by a tube, distractions of like real life are not welcome here.
And lets see how much whinning would happen the momment you lose that Purple Tactical Boff you spent thousands of skill points on to bring up thier skills.
I guess the noisiest gets what it wants....
15 second respawn for infinite zerg is not a penalty.
The Crystalline Entity has a perfect death penalty. When you die, you lose nothing. The CE heals itself depending how many shards smashed in to your ship and it heals.
Although if you keep dying, you'll never win. If your TEAM keeps dying, you'll never win. You lose nothing but time lost zerging the thing instead of coming up with a plan that works.
I'm not worried about an 'end game'. It's the early-middle-late game that concerns me. I like playing alts. Unfortunately, STO isn't particularly alt-friendly at present, because there aren't enough missions to provide any variety at all - it's the same missions over and over and over regardless of what class, race, or ship you choose. So, rather than an 'end game' I'd prefer...
Missions spanning a character's entire career from Ensign to RA, designed specifically for:
Engineering Officers
Tactical Officers
Science Officers
Each playable race
So that my Engineering captain won't be doing the same old same old 'stock' missions my Science captain has already done half a dozen times over (while teaming with friends), and my Andorian captain can do missions that might just provide a sense of what it's like to be Andorian besides just being blue with antennae.
THIS is what would keep me playing - and paying.
Oh, and before I forget, even though it's obviously falling on deaf ears (or at least, ears with selective hearing): HELL NO to the DP!
I guess your money is greener than mine. Bully for you.
Like many of the reasons to have a Death Penalty I agree here - but it misses the point. That is that currentlly blowing up (and yes, even a very rare instance on the ground) is a death by no fault of your own. this would force many player to avoid specific aspects of the game.
Indeed, especially in an escort that dies *fast* I've been in places that I died 10-15 times to get away. The Romulan sectors were *really* bad for this if you wanted to play random space encounters - even if you immediately hit "exit sector" you could *still* die in the time it took you to enter warp, let alone if you actually wanted to play the game. Further Escorts (haven't been in that area on other ships yet) die so fast and the situation is so common it could take me as long as 45 minutes to an hour when i was futilely trying to avoid death, once I accepted it and let it happen until I could get away then things worked well.
Further there are still places as Captain 5 that I get one shotted - not much I can do over that. Yea, I *could* hold back to no less than 8KM, run like a baby every time anything came in that range, and basically be useless but - really? It's not like it is that often but give me much of a DP and I will think on it really hard.
For most of these it isn't a regularly occurring thing. I agree that most battles are easy: ground combat is unloosable and at least there are a handful of space combats that take either some over levelling or tactics to win. But over all - yea fairly easy game. The issue with a Dp that is more than just instance based is when you *do* hit that place where you die you do over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (need I go on?). Until/unless that is fixed anything more than an instance based DP is going to hurt the game. For that to even be a choice requires a number of changes to many systems.
Personally I like the Guild Wars system - instance based and cumulative on your instance. Go outside of that and it's all reset, within that set you can't zerg something to death. We aren't that far from that - unless you are in a group instance health is restored to full (never understood why shields weren't too) after your death so you almost start from the beginning (NPC's count as group members and can keep their health from resetting). I do not like the zerg mentality that can happen, yet there are a myriad of cases where it takes a number of deaths to figure out what is going on. GW balances that by letting you "work" your DP off and it only being per instance, once you reach a town (sector space) it is all gone.
That model makes it such that you can't simply use a death to insta-heal, yet a death isn't the end of the world. The game has you "work off" DP (that is so many XP points removes so much DP) so a good player that just happens on bad luck isn't screwed - good players never see it. Yet it keeps us from rushing an objective, dying, and respawn/kill everything.
I see no reason this model wouldn't work for STO. the instanced idea is similar and the non-zerging idea is too. Guild Wars has *no* zerging going on yet no one complains about of lack of DP. Yes, I'm sure this will not be the case here (there are a certain amount of Eve players who want that level of DP here and will complain, yet this effectively solves the gameplay issues (of which I agree no DP whatsoever does introduce).
Ah damn, it's optional and I don't need that level of immersion. Some might though. Maybe we should have exploding keyboards for those who want immersion?
The only immersion I require is an orion slave girl. Now if you want immersion, that's what we need.
They said in an artucle somewhere they want to make death "more meaningful"
so ...its a comin
lol immersion? in this game? lemme go find that thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2192989&postcount=17
Let me fill you in
Q- (From Anthony Pascale) What about word of a Death Penalty?
CZ - This is one of those things that is "living proof" of working with the community and listening to them. Personnaly, I don't believe in Death Penalties. I don't believe it adds to the game and that most players don't like them either. Well, guess what... "I was wrong". We are in the process of putting together ideas that makes the combat a bit more risky and limiting the "easier way outs" that people have been using in missions. There are a few things that are being played with internally. I see it in the "nearer term" than in the future. Definitely in the next month or so.
Q - Pascal asks if the criticizims (from players and reviewers) like ease of missions, lack of Klingon content and finish, etc. Do they feel they are fair or unfair and are things going to be done about them?
CZ - What drives our development is NOT the reviews but rather what the players feel. Reviews are what they are. We knew that STO would be polarizing, that some might love the innovation and others might not "get it". There are issues that they would like to develop on, however where reviews OVERLAP with the community comments, then THAT's something to look at. So not necessarily what is in the reviews, but rather what is echoed in the forums.
It's a done deal!
Death Penalty FTW!
I'm sure if we end up doing as much noise as you and the small, very small minority did we will have it restated the way it is. Or they end up doing a DP that won't fill in your level of punishment....
A death penalty isnt needed here anymore than there alrdy is one....look at xbox games hardly any even have cheats anymore why???? Cuz death penalty isnt soo strict, its the latest trend in gaming sorry bras but wow was like soo 8 years ago.
Just the opinion of a lifetime subscriber.
If you die, your toon and everything they own is deleted. really, even PvP
well, you asked :-P
As ****ing infuriating as the Crystalline Entity is to fight (more due to the obscene shard spam and their durability than the regeneration mechanic), it's a wonderful example of why DPs are unnecessary.
maybe a bit of explaination, I play in permadeath guilds....and that is how they play.
so, not trolling...or a nutter
Funny you use WAR as an example of failure.. WAR has both a PvE and a PvP death penalty. WAR failed due to PvP balance (since PvP was the primary "end-game"). Then again you do not always let pesky facts get in the way of posting sometimes it seems.
Then spend money, buy TRIBBLE and delete it, I spend lots of credits, badges and merits up grading my ship, BOs, and customizing my ship.
Stop whining and do something for yourself dont rely on being forced to **** money away for nothing good loard are all of you so uninspired that you can't do anything without the devs forcing you?