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Feedback loops, self harm endeavours and borg diamonds,oh my...
ussvinovia
Member Posts: 77 Arc User
There is something fundamentaly counter intuitive about hurting yourself. Endeavours that need you to actually damage yourself. When I get heal health I Do 'home' and toast myself for around 15 minutes in the first plasma fire because there is no other way that I'm going to take that much damage.
In Space I just forget it. But what really annoys me is feedback pulse. I am punished for the damage I deal. I can now on FAW guarantee to be dead in 1 second against feedback pulse because of how good my damage is. I am punished for making a great ship. So now I have to sit and wait against feedback pulse enemies as if I even take a shot I'm dead.
This is also TRIBBLE for my teammates. Get rid of feedback pulse (and it's equally TRIBBLE alternatives). I don't want or need to spend a trait or console against somthing I have no control over. The only way to is by primary spec Temporal (ie free life).
In Space I just forget it. But what really annoys me is feedback pulse. I am punished for the damage I deal. I can now on FAW guarantee to be dead in 1 second against feedback pulse because of how good my damage is. I am punished for making a great ship. So now I have to sit and wait against feedback pulse enemies as if I even take a shot I'm dead.
This is also TRIBBLE for my teammates. Get rid of feedback pulse (and it's equally TRIBBLE alternatives). I don't want or need to spend a trait or console against somthing I have no control over. The only way to is by primary spec Temporal (ie free life).
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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They are not going to get rid of FBP. It's an useful skill........and why shouldn't NPC's have the exact same skills as players!? Why should you be allowed to vape NPC's without any consequence? You're not being punished.
You mean other than the fact that there's a couple of orders of magnitude difference between what their FBP reflects at me vs what a full-sci, max-rank, max-aux FBP will reflect back at them, right? Or how about the fact that FBP only works against energy weapons. Not torps. Not exotic. And there is nothing like FBP for torps or exotics. Just energy weapons, and nothing else.
Those sure seem like pretty important details to ignore....
This. "Best practice" for those trying to min-max their time with these endeavors might dictate you go stand in a pool on Nukara or apply a self-damaging ability in space. But there's nothing in the design of the game requiring that behavior. Personal conventions =/= commandments from on high.
If you're experiencing friction facing an ability, change approach. Eg. don't go all out on a target you *know* will spam FBP until after its used the ability. Apply careful timing. Don't leeroy jenkins your way into combat ad infinitum and against direct evidence that such an approach is not universally appropriate.
Games exist as structured activities that incentivize and disincentivize behaviors to create the challenge, entertainment value, and narrative experiences of said game. The stick is an entirely valid approach for designers as (for example) it pushes players out of paths of least resistance and gets them thinking about what they're doing. As is the case here. See also vaadwuar AOE spam, na'kuhl invincibility, tzenkethi proximity buffs, iconian control powers, and difficulty scaling with level generally. Each is designed to get the player to do something different than their habituated routine. In FBP's case, its moderation and observation. Think when it comes to tackling spikey targets, be vigilant in what you activate against whom (probably the single greatest issue for players in STO: looking around them and processing information about what's happening in the game, so of buttons that an ability could push, this is a very valuable one), and you'll consistently succeed.
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Because enemies already have a numerical advantage.
There's nothing wrong with enemies having skills, but it needs to be one or the other. Not both.
Besides, they need to be counterable. Enemy ability A is countered by player ability B, which is nulified by enemy ability C and so on...
Having stuff that you just need to wait out (for most builds) is dumb.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
True, but in practice those healing endeavours are only done in a reasonable amount of time if you deliberately handicap or damage yourself.
Taking the shield healing as an example: it only works if you're also missing hit points. Which means that anyone with a reasonable amount of passive hull healing will see half his shield heals not add any progress for the endeavour.
On the ground, it generally means you have to wait until your shields are entirely gone + losing some hit points, before you recharge your shields. With HP healing on the ground, you'd have to get killed almost entirely for like 18 to 30 times or so (depending on your toon's HP) before you've done enough healing.
These endeavours are poorly designed. There are undocumented criteria that make no sense (a requirement to have missing HP when the task is to heal shields) and to complete them in normal gameplay, you (or a team mate) need(s) to utterly suck at playing the game.
Because anyone with a decent build is going to vaporise the enemy before they've been hit with enough damage, or they're going to be just too good at dealing with the damage passively.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
FBP IS counterable. And NPC numbers are irrelevant, they don't fire off 50 abilities in 4 seconds like players do. I have no issue with NPC's have the same skills. If a player cannot figure out what to do, especially to counter something as easy to counter as FBP, it's a player-problem, not a game problem. Just because a player has to wait out an ability is not a game issue either.
It's complaining because someone can't vape because an ability stops it, that's all.
If there is any ability that needs to be removed from the game it's the Viral Impulse Burst that the Mokai Klingons are able to spam nigh infinitely at times. That power is just plain rage inducing when you get hit by it enough.
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Oh, yes, I would love to see Viral Impulse Burst gone. There's a fine line between "challenging" and "gratuitously frustrating", and IMO VIB falls into the latter. Nothing like being forced to zoom well away from the battle because Engineering Team happened to be on cooldown... and sometimes if it wasn't, because I get hit with it twice in a row.
FBP, I admit to finding kind of funny. There's a certain delicious irony in knowing I exploded because I'd min-maxed my own build a bit too well.
Yes, Viral Impulse Burst needs to be removed. I don't object to, say, Subnuc, the problem there being how it's handled; it's not balanced for the swarming tactics Cryptic so loves, and it shouldn't be possible to reapply it the instant it's cleared. Viral Impulse Burst is rage inducing indeed, especially since it forces you to waste your main heal.
However in some situations just like Viral Impulse Burst, Subnuc can be just as infuriating. When you have a very good build and can nuke waves of enemies, like in Ninth Rule against Hirogen, that is when the problem REALLY shows because you now have FRESH ships coming in that can hit you with fresh stacks of Subnuc when your Sci Team is still on cooldown from the previous wave. And the worst part is that both the Frigates and Hunters have Subnuc, and there's like five of them per wave.
Regarding Moaki Viral Impulse Burst some more, its only specific ships that use it. All the battleships other than the Cleave have access to Viral Impulse Burst. Honestly not sure why the Cleave is different, but its a welcome repieve from the Charg and Bortas'bir VIB spam.
As of right now I think the counter to FBP is Subnuc, and perhaps by extention Subnuc Carrier Wave from Intel ships. Also I believe FBP does NOT trigger off Kinetic weapons like Torpedoes. Just Energy weapons. So tactics wise it might be wise to let off the Energy attacks and fall back on Torps if possible. This is especially hard for pure energy builds and Escorts that have spike damage because you are effectively spiking yourself. Maybe if there was a DOff or an ability/trait that had a chance of stripping enemy buffs it might be interesting to experiment with, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I always use Reverse Shield Polarity (RSP) for FBP, heals my shields and I ride FBP out whilst still shooting if I don't have Subnuc ready, and I'll throw Tac Beam (on my Sci ships) because that'll do the killing for me.
VIP is indeed frustrating, but I don't come across the Mokai often enough to warrant to call for it's removal. It's their equivalent of the shield reinforcement with the Tzenkethi. Again, it's clearable with Hazard Emitters and Eng Team, or avoided by staying out further than 5km. I think it's that, but I know distance is key, best to stay far out.
What are you doing that Engineering Team is your main heal? I know I play primarily as a tank, but you should have more than just that. Not trying to dunk on your build if it sounds that way, legitimately curious as to what you're running.
With that in mind, I'm of the mindset no debuff like Subnuc or ViB should be able to be reapplied immediately after it's been cleared. There should be a few seconds of immunity to major powers like that being applied to you again. Doesn't have to be super long, could be as simple as 5 seconds.
Relevant section highlighted in bold.
I didn't say it has to be removed. What I said was that if they're going to remove annoying NPC powers, that one needs to be at the top of the list. Giving folks a few seconds of immunity after being effected by it a first time would alleviate alot of the complaints about it. Problem is that NPCs can potentially spam it on you. I've had hazard emitters up and still been sent flying by that power so I'm not sure what went on there. Can it be cleared by certain powers like Eng team, sure, but that's only good for one instance of the power. If they can spam it on you then you effectively have zero counter for it. The 5km thing also doesn't work either as I've gotten tagged by it while sitting at 9km out.
For the bolded section, just no, that's not even remotely the same kind of power. Is it one of their signature abilities, certainly. However shield reinforcement doesn't remove you from the fight completely. At least with the shield reinforcement you have multiple ways you can approach it, not so with ViB. See previous paragraph, problem isn't per say the existence of the power, but that it can be spammed with impunity. If for example you're fighting them with a full team of 5, with enough spam pops of that power the NPCs can effectively keep one guy out of the fight permanently which is way overpowered and not fun at all.
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Apologies Dark, this was addressing the sentiment others made. I totally agree it's annoying when it's spammed, but it can be protected against with Hazard Emitters whilst that is active. On PC it's a judgement call when to activate it, but it would be great if conditional triggers were allowed on PC like they are on Console. On Console, ViP can be instantaneously nullified by Hazard Emitters or Sci/Eng Team (forgot which one) the moment it hits by selecting the appropriate setting, although you really want Hazard Emitters as it is a continuous cleanse.
If I'm in a TFO where I'm using a cannon build and there's a possibility of FBP being used by an offending enemy ship, I tend to "tickle" the suspect ships with unbuffed weapons prior to more fully engaging (with buffs) in an attempt to get a reaction out of them. Some of my cannon builds include a copy of CRF as well as CSV so it's possible to individually target other ships in the same enemy group instead of waiting for the FBP to end and targeting the entire group.
With a cannon build I don't think it's really a matter of building or not building for "dps" as with the higher spike damage that cannons bring to the game it's basically the nature of an offensively orientated ship that you'll blow yourself up in a fraction of a second when firing at an NPC with FBP if you're fully buffed.
Its Engie Team. Should be if Console is the same as PC anyways. I don't know from personal experience if Hazard Emitters or Sci Team works on Viral Impulse Burst. I thought it was an Engie Debuff, not a DoT or Sci Debuff.
I might have to see if the wiki classifies it and identifies counters.
https://stowiki.net/wiki/Ability:_Viral_Impulse_Burst
Ok Wiki doesn't list counters, but apparently it does say that its a 5 km radius and Control Resist can decrease the duration.
Pretty sure the Republic Star Navy would also, and DEFINITELY the klingons.
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Pssst - Here's a tip. You can keep an eye on what your Boffs say in Chat and STOP firing when they warn you when the Queen's Diamond is about to FBP. (Yes, I know, horrible you have to hit any other key than Spacebar in a fight from time to time and need to pay a little attention to the encounter once in a while.)
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The big problem with the game currently is NPC's encounter enemy X who hit them with 100% uptime Grav Wells, BFAW, CSV, Torp Spreads etc. etc. without respite and are unable to counter it (in most cases). There is something deeply wrong with a game that constantly punished NPC's with giving them inferior defense tactics.
THINK OF THE (NPC) CHILDREN!!!!
Sorry, I've no sympathy for folk who won't adapt, even if AI has to spam irritating abilities to last more than 2 seconds against players.
The game is not Farmville. It's a player problem, not a game problem. Players have never had it so good in this game.
I'm all for promoting situational awareness, but then the player also needs to be able to actually do something with it.
Just laying there with your ship and waiting until the enemy buff has expired isn't exactly engaging gameplay.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
True, but some of the cigar shaped ships also have Feedback Pulse. If there's only one Sci on the team, there's a fair chance it has to be used and will be on cooldown when the fight against the Queen starts (basically the same problem with endlessly spamming Hirogen in some patrols, even if those are even more annoying due to their greater numbers).
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
The best counter, besides SubNuc and/or RSP plus Hazard Emitters is a Tachyon Beam from a Sci vessel with Deteriorating Sec Deflector equipped. Melts the ship in question and has a fast cooldown.
Just because waiting it out isn't 'engaging gameplay', it doesn't make it wrong or mean the game has an issue though. This is a player complaining because there is something they can't vape in 2 seconds flat. FBP used to reflect MORE than 100% of incoming damage and Cryptic nerf'd it so it did not exceed that, and guess what, players complained! The OP clear just wants to vape everything as fast as possible and wants to shave a few seconds of their speed runs.
Your advice isn't that different, it just boils down to 'melt the ship differently'.
As much as I enjoy flying my own different Sci builds, it's kind of funny to defend the workings of FBP by suggesting anyone opposed to its current workings is just complaining because they cannot melt ships instantly anymore (when people are actually just asking for effective counters) and then suggest they melt ships faster...
I hope you see the irony here.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
That's NOT what I said. I gave valid and easily accessible counters as a way of adapting. There is no irony.
This complaint is purely because someone can't/won't adapt their own play style. Even if I don't use a Tac Beam, with RSP (Reverse Shield Polarity) and Hazard emitters, I can still dispatch an enemy throwing FBP easily without worrying about destroying myself. If that person won't slot RSP to protect themselves, then it's their own fault, not the game's.
RSP is freely available at any Boff skill vendor and it outlasts the duration of FBP. It simply is the best and most economical defense against FBP. It should be mandatory for survivability on every build