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Anyone else want to see new lower stakes story missions?

o0kami87o0kami87 Member Posts: 590 Arc User
Okay, I know for a game exploration and science isn't a heavy seller, combat and explosions are. That being said, isn't it odd for a group of explorers to end up in war after war with higher and higher stakes? First the system, then your territorial border, the quadrant, the unaverse, the multi-verse. I grew up on TNG and reruns of TOS, higher stakes (Outside of a movie here and there) didn't start out until DS9 and Enterprise. Yes there was a war between the Federation and Klingons in TOS but that wasn't the focus, it was one ship, a lot of the issues the crews faced where a bit more... personal. I personally would love to see a story line where another captain takes a "who's the better captain" challenge a little to far, or a Klingon is trying to blow your ship into pieces, for no other reason than he thinks you insulted his mother or something. Having to help a Romulan settlement defensive systems up to protect the village from a incoming natural storm on the planet.
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Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,902 Arc User
    edited September 2023
    Yes, that would be nice.

    I didn't grow up with TNG and TOS, I grew up with Voyager and Enterprise. Although those shows had overarching stories, most of the episodes still dealt with smaller, more relatable challenges.

    Even when there was a big conflict or existential threat, like the Temporal Cold War, most of the episodes actually dealt with a part of that conflict. Like the Xindi arc, which was basically one entity (the Xindi Council) threatening Earth with destruction. And within that Xindi Arc, there were also again smaller stories, dealing with inter-personnel conflicts between the MACO's and Starfleet (ok, just Reed actually :p ), a trip to present-day Detroit, First Contact with holy war fighting aliens who are also worshipping anomaly-creating spheres and so on.

    There were a few allies and of although everything was embedded within a broader storyline, a significant part of the episodes were just about that one battlefield, so to say, within the broader war.
    Even when the Temporal Cold War itself became the main focus of the story with the Na'kuhl, it was still very tangible (New York, the Second World War, Earth's history hanging in the balance).

    The problem, in my opinion, isn't so much that we have big threats and large-scale conflicts. We can have that. But they could and should be played out on smaller scales. That way, you could have the same universal threat as the background for the stories you want to tell. There's no need to remind people every episode that there's a threat to the entirety of existence, or that the future of the entire Federation is at stake. That Klingon trying to blow our ship to pieces may well have reasons that are related to those larger scale conflicts - betrayal in an earlier battle, political schemes of factions opposed to the Empire participating in the Alliance's efforts etc. - but those conflicts themselves - another one every month - don't need to be the focus the entire time.

    Edit: funny thing is, Enterprise even had that. Even though the entire Xindi arc was about to start, ENT's creators still reserved some time to bring back an old Klingon adversary of Archerm just to show how dangerous his mission was going to be.

    Even DS9 - by far the most serialised of the series - had episodes that dealt, for example, with the discovery of an Iconian gateway. And although the war was part of the reasons why the things done were being done and specific choices were made - the story of the episode itself could well have been placed in another setting. I.e. the big, overarching threat was there, but it could be played out in a more localised setting and conflict on a smaller scale.


    Long story short: yes, the omni-threat thing is becoming boring and annoying. If there must be an overarching, omni-present threat, have it be the same one and build enough lower-stakes stories around it that are somewhat related, but also good stories on their own. It wouldn't hurt to shift the focus every now and then, not from one existential threat to another, but from one small story to another one, even if they're part of the same, larger conflict.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
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    spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,297 Arc User
    Yeah we're starting to get a degree of scope exhaustion and a good lower stakes storyline could be used to "reset" the stakes so that every story doesn't have to have multi-verse end level of stakes attached to it.
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    In the space of only THREE (game) years, we've had at least 15 existential threats......I heard Andromeda is quiet peaceful though even though it's mostly devoid of life now :lol:
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    I confess the 'stakes' are largely irrelevant to me at this point. (and largely have been since the absurdity of the Iconian war)

    What I want to see is missions where the player character isn't a mindless drone for whatever the voice talent of the fiscal quarter is. Given the player's rank and position, it should be assumed that they're busy with their own business but also carving out the time to work WITH the current plot characters. I'd rather see iconic characters of the shows being badass and getting things done on their own while the player is also doing equally awesome things towards the same goals. It'd be a far more engaging experience than the helpless princess complex the game has fallen into with its celebrity talent.
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    zzzspina01zzzspina01 Member Posts: 310 Arc User
    i dont know why they removed some story arks. and put them under another tub. but there are some good in game episodes.
    I cant brain I have the dumb
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    sometimes I wish my character commanded a california class.. you know, Second Cotact, the occasional pakled supership...
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    ozwynozwyn Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    honestly a whole season of episodes dealing with, say a rogue Ferengi trying to sell stolen alliance technology to small fringe powers or even boost low warp/pre-warp civs to build their own alliance from scratch would fit the bill.
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    spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,297 Arc User
    Personally I'd have a "season" of unconnected episode which had the theme of being small stakes either because they were very local or because they involved dealing with things like space pirates who had been very good at avoiding capture and Starfleet/KDF/RRN/Dominion called on their best (aka us) to deal with to send a message.
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    nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    i want to hang out in the K-7 bar and pet tribbles while security and Klingons have a bar fight
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    captainrc1captainrc1 Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    Some lower stakes episode-like stories would be welcome change from the usual fate-of-the-galaxy/universe/multiverse stories. I mean... I get that the game creators want to establish that the PC is the latest great legend in whatever faction (s)he is in, but that was pretty much established at the end of the Iconian War. So, how about less universe saving and more seeking out and boldly going and all that Trek stuff.
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,618 Arc User
    I like the idea of some lower-stake missions too, like TOS and most of the traditional Treks mainly consisted of.

    Of course, the devs probably favor the "save the universe" at the moment because the NuTreks tend to be action-hero things with over-the-top season metaplots and in theory they could bring in the most new players because the shows are still relatively live.

    Even SNW with its loose arc-episode structure is plagued by the ship-on-a-pedestal nonsense and a bit less but still significant amount of "save the universe/Federation/whatever that the other NuTreks do, so STO will probably continue with the high-stakes stuff as well for the foreseeable future.
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    nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    to be fair SNW does have some pretty good one off episodes, like the comet worshipping guys. that's exactly the kind of thing I want to see in a few episodes
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    We Need BERETS in the tailor
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    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    edited October 2023
    Just have us deal with Orion Syndicate business, (and... yes, I know not all Orions are Pirates, sorry Tendi), I know I personally just want to meet this Melani D'ian in person, maybe we help her deal with some more Syndicate traitors like Hassan the Undying, like for example a new group of Orions, that's gotten too ambitious for their own good and think that they might have a shot at overthrowing the current leader of the Syndicate.
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,108 Arc User
    Yeah. Something with the Gorn would be nice.
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    Typhoon Class please!
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    spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,297 Arc User
    There's plenty of ways one could do "low stakes mission or missions", we just need to make enough noise to get Cryptic get that there's demand for ones.
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    rynae1rynae1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited October 2023
    I agree, on this one. I personally most enjoyed the first episodes, when you are just captain of random ship among many others, and you do your things in space among many more random captains. I think heroic acts on galactic scale should be very rare. As first post suggests, a lot of Star Trek series revolves around smaller perils, which are interesting to watch to be resolved. With escalation of galactic conflicts, is problem that it is very immersion breaking. World of Warcraft has similar issue, as player character is Champion, Hero and almost demi-god and gods know why, and it is very hard to relate to such story and character. We can see surge of numbers on Classic WoW and one of many reasons players comment on, is that they enjoy being nobody in game universe.

    From RP player perspective it is even more important, as a lot of new stuff which is happening in STO can't be much implemented in interplayer game and RP players still play random captains in huge universe.

    Problem could be solved by implementing again feature of Foundry, and I do not mean bring back old one, as I read there were technical difficulties which prevented devs from maintaining it in future. But creating new platform to give players ability to create own content for them, could partially solve the issue. I remember when forge was active, majority missions (Not all) were small scale encounters and sometimes on level of Star Trek general universe, for example repairing satellites, responding to natural disaster and stuff. Such feature would also increase retention of players in game, as new and new adventures could be explored and content would be generated by players for players.

    Fly safe!
    Post edited by rynae1 on
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    hawkkebank#5650 hawkkebank Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Yes, very very much so.
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    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    rynae1 wrote: »
    I agree, on this one. I personally most enjoyed the first episodes, when you are just captain of random ship among many others, and you do your things in space among many more random captains. I think heroic acts on galactic scale should be very rare. As first post suggests, a lot of Star Trek series revolves around smaller perils, which are interesting to watch to be resolved. With escalation of galactic conflicts, is problem that it is very immersion breaking. World of Warcraft has similar issue, as player character is Champion, Hero and almost demi-god and gods know why, and it is very hard to relate to such story and character. We can see surge of numbers on Classic WoW and one of many reasons players comment on, is that they enjoy being nobody in game universe.

    From RP player perspective it is even more important, as a lot of new stuff which is happening in STO can't be much implemented in interplayer game and RP players still play random captains in huge universe.

    Problem could be solved by implementing again feature of Foundry, and I do not mean bring back old one, as I read there were technical difficulties which prevented devs from maintaining it in future. But creating new platform to give players ability to create own content for them, could partially solve the issue. I remember when forge was active, majority missions (Not all) were small scale encounters and sometimes on level of Star Trek general universe, for example repairing satellites, responding to natural disaster and stuff. Such feature would also increase retention of players in game, as new and new adventures could be explored and content would be generated by players for players.

    Fly safe!

    I agree, this is a great Idea, Canonically Federation Captains can't really respond to natural disasters on undeveloped worlds, but can prevent ones on warp capable planets like Vulcan, Qo'noS and New Romulus because of the Prime Directive, but since STO is a Video Game and Non-Canon, you can pretty much just ignore the Prime Directive altogether.
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    rynae1rynae1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Your reply perfectly touches what makes Star Trek a Star Trek, and that is moral dilema of individuals. I remember episodes where captains had to deal with certain moral dilemas and constrictions of their factions. By it Honor system, Prime directive, or conservative nature of their culture.

    Quests can be from time to time constructed in this was, to make players feel that their faction matter, and that there is slight difference in approach. I will lay out simple quest for this matter:

    1) Player enters system and notices planet going through natural disaster, but denizens of planet are in pre-Warp era. Denizens have telescopes on orbit and they notice advanced ship and start to relay on all frequencies they plea for help.
    2) Player has to with minigame decypher their language and hear the message.
    3) Fork: Based on faction, bridge officers will give their advices. Federation officers accenting prime directive, and KDF officers accenting that this is just how it is and they shouldn't interfere. If player listens to bridge officers, mission is completed. Player saved time and get some reward
    4) Fork2: They go through all story, help the planet, knowing consequences. And on the end, their superiors contact them,
    wanting players to explain themselves. Player would be presented with dialog options and behind scenes would be score counter, how much convincing it is for his faction. Based on final score would be calculated final reward.

    This is quite small quest, nothing on galactic scale, but (I can speak only for myself) I think it is much more interesting, then saving galaxy from another big threat. I do not mean every quest has to be like that, and that it should be without combat, but some return to roots of what Star Trek is would be nice. I would really love to see devs to deliver stories in spirit of series, and what brought to ST people in first place. Players did these missions before, I played some of them, and they were amazing.

    In the end, tools are in hands of Cryptic, and power in our hands as customers.

    Fly safe! And most importantly enjoy game!
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    annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,623 Arc User
    how many times have i said we need to check up on the roman planet, the gangsters, the eminiar folks, the people of vaal....
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    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    edited October 2023
    how many times have i said we need to check up on the roman planet, the gangsters, the eminiar folks, the people of vaal....

    I know keep asking about the Gangsters planet, maybe after all these years they changed from 1930s Mafia gangsters into 1990s gangsters with Boombox weapons.
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    jade1280jade1280 Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    I remember the last time we had some low stakes missions it was when we found the Lukari. I recall it didn't take all that long before some ancient threat that was going to destroy everything came up after that.
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    paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    I get Klingons, Romulans and Jemmies going into war after war, but Starfleet their whole thing Exploration, Science and Diplomacy, the way I see it STO must be set in a different Mirror Universe, since Starfleet Officers clearly act more like Warlike Terrans than the Diplomatic Prime versions.
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    phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,618 Arc User
    edited October 2023
    I get Klingons, Romulans and Jemmies going into war after war, but Starfleet their whole thing Exploration, Science and Diplomacy, the way I see it STO must be set in a different Mirror Universe, since Starfleet Officers clearly act more like Warlike Terrans than the Diplomatic Prime versions.

    Actually, Dominion tactics tend more towards false flag operations, collapsing governments from the inside via disinformation and other sabotage, and just plain strongarm threats than they do to actual wars of expansion if you pay close attention to not only what is said but also how it is said (and the body language in use when they say it). In the case of the Dominion war in DS9 the dirty tricks failed, the Alpha/Beta powers would not be intimidated, and the only option left was outright war.

    A fun factoid about humans from Earth in TOS is that they were ALL called "Terrans", even the ones in the main universe in TOS. That is why the Empire started by people from Mirror Earth was called the "Terran Empire".

    Mark Lenard used the label 'Terran' to refer to humans from Earth as both Sarek and the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror for example, and behind the scenes info revealed that the term 'Earther' was reserved as a derogatory term (which is why the Klingons used it for the heroes and would have used it a lot more had there been a fourth and fifth season).

    Apparently, later on that distinction in terms was lost and the spinoff Treks started calling just the mirror Terrans 'Terran' like it was something unique to the Mirror universe.

    There are a lot of examples of the Federation fighting when necessary, and the Iconian war was just as necessessary as the Dominion war, the Klingon wars, the Earth/Romulan war and others, in fact probably more necessary and unavoidable than those others.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,446 Community Moderator
    Well, after Picard S3, the devs did finally state that STO is a divergent universe, so there's all the explanation you need as to why our Starfleet is a bit more militaristic. 😄
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    avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,201 Arc User
    Since STO was set after DS9/Voy it's no wonder why it is more militaristic.
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    baucoinbaucoin Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    Well, after Picard S3, the devs did finally state that STO is a divergent universe, so there's all the explanation you need as to why our Starfleet is a bit more militaristic. 😄

    Ok, so if the Dev's are saying STO is in a divergent universe how about bring Icheb back? I mean he was stationed on Deep Space K-7 on 2408. He's was removed because he was killed off in the first season of Picard in 2386 and replace with Vintrax with the March 5th 2020 patch.

    Yeah, I know this will never happen just wishing a bit. :)

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    philchapphilchap Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited October 2023
    I wouldn't mind that at all. I know all way like why cann't they do a mission where you bond with someone from your crew. Likee exploring something new. to me that what ST is bout frieendship and exploring the unknown
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    fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,902 Arc User
    The last couple of weeks I've been re-watching ENT episodes every now and then. Been doing that for years, but whereas I usually watched the Xindi arc and the fourth season, I now chose to view some of the other seasons.

    That show had some really good low-stake stories. T'Pol chasing a fugitive, non-corporeal aliens with a damaged ship replacing the crew, stigma's surrounding transferable diseases etc.

    Their replay value would probably be low though.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.

    [6/12 9:59][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 24097 (13711) Physical Damage(Critical) to Elite Tactical Drone
This discussion has been closed.