Feedback: nerf the new borg Detonate ability.

lazybunnykiera · September 2023

Ok maybe it's just me, but i think the borg sphere's Detonate needs a little nerf.. Maybe the range, or the frequency, or the damage. Especially on normal mode. Maybe increase how long it takes for them to detonate and let us destroy them before they can detonate, or even get out of range of them.

These things are 1 shotting my full health, full shield+overshield sphere builder science vessel, for like, 90k+. And it's not like once or twice, it's often. Dying 3 times in 1 minute to the same detonate, in a normal TFO, is kind of silly.

It's worse than warp core breaches because the spheres are flying up to me and detonating, but they're just flying out of my gwell like it doesn't even affect them. So perhaps make it so they can't move while detonating.

I'm glad the borg are tougher, but this isn't tougher, this is just giving them a magic win button.

baucoin · September 2023

I agree, needs some adjustment.

majorcharvenak · September 2023

Yeah, though I am of mix opinion. It's a bit of a mess, but it is does make the fight a tad more interesting.

thunderfoot · September 2023

I say leave it alone. Refreshing after all these years the Borg can surprise me. And I was quite surprised during my brief trip to Respawnville. Then I lol'd. I adapted and got back to the business of shooting up the place.

sascpt · September 2023

Yeah, I too like beeing surprised from time to time. Still, maybe it's a bug, my internet connection or something I miss. But to me it seems I get the damage from "detonate" no matter what. As long as I've been in range of the sphere when they start to overload, I'm screwed. Doesn't matter if the sphere is destroyed by weaponsfire, I'm over 7km away (not sure beyond 10), I brace for impact...
For anyone who flies an escort or, in general not a tank, this is almoast always a one-hit-kill.
Little problem when flying my tank-cruisers, but not everyone wants to do that all the time.

The one thing I miss the most is a proper description of the ability in the wiki, so that there's a chance to look up what you might do wrong. Information on this whole release is pretty scarce as it is. E.g. Had to find out about the revamp of the remodulators by try and error. No hint to it in the release notes or the anouncement.

leemwatson · September 2023

Nah leave it. It's great for dropping on an suspecting AFK'er

I don't think it's particularly OP, and it's refreshing to have another enemy that can actually bother players properly. I wanted tougher Borg, and I got my wish

lazybunnykiera · September 2023

Well i just did a Resistance of SB1, and got hit 4x in 1 minute from it. I respawned, and before i could even move, a sphere floats by and detonates. Yes that's including the 11 seconds or so to respawn.
I think what bothers me is there's no cooldown to how often it can hit you, and you can't brace for impact..

I don't mind THAT they have a detonate ability, it's how often they use it. It's one thing to keep me on my toes, it's another to literally, not figuratively, but literally get spawn killed by it, repeatedly.

So even something like a hidden cooldown where if you get hit by one, and even if you die to it, you get a buff that protects you from another one for 30 seconds. At least give me a chance to move before getting exploded again.

And yeah my ship isn't a big dreadnaught with 200k hull. But it still shouldn't be getting 1 shotted from full.

So again, These are my suggestions, and I'm not saying to use all of them, just pick 1.. maybe 2.

Give it a longer charge up, and let the ship be destroyed before it can Detonate.
Reduce the range, even by 1-2km.
Reduce the frequency that spheres use Detonate.
Give players a hidden buff that persists after death, that for 30 seconds they won't be affected by Detonate.
Reduce the potency of detonate by 30% to 50%. It'll still cripple people or kill them if they're damaged, but it shouldn't 1 shot a full hull/shield ship.

Any 1 of those suggestions would probably fix detonate.

thunderfoot · September 2023

You're getting killed by Spheres detonating during the Event runs? Which have a default Difficulty Setting of Normal?
How is this possible? Are you the only player with this issue? I have not seen anyone else post about this. I've not experienced anything close to what you've posted about. I've run the Event in a Hysperian Battlecruiser. Which I had to work at getting just over 96,000 Hull Points. Not one time did a Sphere detonating do to me what you've described. For the record, I consider myself to be an average STO player. Because I don't have access to everything in the game and I flat refuse to spend any more than about US $20.00 a month here.

Do you not have any Damage Resistance or Hull Regen at all? How fast do your Shields regenerate? Do you not use or not know about things like Engineering Team? Emergency Power to Shields? Auxiliary to SIF? Hazard Emitters? Reactive Armor Catalysts?

At what ranges are you engaging the Spheres? Less than 1 Km? Are you using BFAW? Or anything else which draws aggro from more than one NPC at a time?

Do you go into combat in an already damaged ship?

I'm not sure I understand the problem you're having. Or why you think nerfing the Borg Spheres inside an Event TFO with a default setting of Normal Difficulty is the best possible solution for you and everyone else.

theraven2378 · September 2023

Engage them at stand off range out of blast radius then, do as the Borg do and adapt.
The spheres are actually not all that bad and yes I have taken them on in escorts without too much difficulty, a few close calls but that's it.

baucoin · September 2023

This really needs some adjustments. Just finished a run that had an elite player zipping around the map killing everything in sight. This player ended up getting every other player in the mission killed by detonating spheres, plus one of the ships you are trying to protect. That's how he got me, I had gotten close to the mission ship to render aid because it had already taken damage from a sphere. While I was stopped another sphere warped in and got blasted thus resulting in me and the mission ship getting killed.

After a while three of player just didn't bother respawning and waited till the final cube showed up.

majorcharvenak · September 2023

baucoin wrote: »

This really needs some adjustments. Just finished a run that had an elite player zipping around the map killing everything in sight. This player ended up getting every other player in the mission killed by detonating spheres, plus one of the ships you are trying to protect. That's how he got me, I had gotten close to the mission ship to render aid because it had already taken damage from a sphere. While I was stopped another sphere warped in and got blasted thus resulting in me and the mission ship getting killed.

After a while three of player just didn't bother respawning and waited till the final cube showed up.

Agreed. This happens more than some might think or wish to believe, and I am ashamed to admit that I too can be a tad too enthusiastic (i.e. bone-headed) as to where/when I plant my GW3 and SIA effects.

As others have highlighted, folks just need to remember to engage them at a range greater than 5km and then keep and kill them at that distance. Weapons/effects hold - If they are near a rescue vessel or another player or try to push/pull them away. I wouldn't want them to remove the effect (even in Normal difficulty) as it is an interesting mechanic, but I concur that the damage could be scaled down just a tad in normal mode.

lokharno · September 2023

At minimum, I'd like to see the detonation (and the detonation radius) better telegraphed visually. I fairly frequently find myself suddenly missing 30% of my hull "out of the blue." I eventually figured out that it was the sphere's self-detonate ability (probably!). I don't object to making the Borg more dangerous... it's actually kind of overdue. And I appreciate the effort not to add to the visual chaos that is the typical STO space battle these days. But I do feel like players need a better indication of what's happening -- or is about to happen.

pottsey5g · September 2023

Those of you with problems are you running glass cannons or small ships with low HP? I don't get why the detonation is a problem. I am running a bare minimum tank and don't die or see any suddenly massive hull drops. Perhaps your resistance is to low or you are not using shields?

Based on my own experience running normal and Elite I don't feel like a Nerf is required.

lazybunnykiera#9316 wrote: »

These things are 1 shotting my full health, full shield+overshield sphere builder science vessel, for like, 90k+. And it's not like once or twice, it's often. Dying 3 times in 1 minute to the same detonate, in a normal TFO, is kind of silly.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the build like low resistance. What is the hull and shield resistance? Its not normal to be 1 shot from hull health and its not what I am seeing in game.

lazybunnykiera · September 2023

pottsey5g wrote: »

Those of you with problems are you running glass cannons or small ships with low HP? I don't get why the detonation is a problem. I am running a bare minimum tank and don't die or see any suddenly massive hull drops. Perhaps your resistance is to low or you are not using shields?

Based on my own experience running normal and Elite I don't feel like a Nerf is required.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the build like low resistance. What is the hull and shield resistance? Its not normal to be 1 shot from hull health and its not what I am seeing in game.

I think the issue we're having is the frequency. High DPSers are being punished for building for high DPS.
Glass cannon or not, we should at least have a chance to survive. But some of us will die, respawn, and immediately die again within 3 seconds of respawning to another Detonate. It's why I want some sort of immunity, even if it's like 20-30 seconds.

Or if i completely destroy a ship before it can detonate, that should be it.. no detonate. But they seem to detonate after they should be dead.. We should be getting warp core breaches.

You're running a tank, even a bare minimum tank. Well this is just like any other mmo. There are your tanks, your DPS, your healers, your wizards. I play as a space wizard, crowd control and such.
I have a raider pilot captain that would be more like a ranger. With positional damage.
My carrier captain has a lot of heals.

The problem is, these detonates are going off so frequently. I even run Hull Imagers, so i'll often have additional hull, as well as overshields. And i'll still get 1 shotted for 90k+ by a detonate.
And we can't brace for impact, which is what i do for warp core breaches.

Trust me, you don't want everyone flying tanky ships. The lack of DPS will just make missions/TFOs take way too long.

pottsey5g · September 2023

lazybunnykiera#9316 wrote: »

pottsey5g wrote: »

Those of you with problems are you running glass cannons or small ships with low HP? I don't get why the detonation is a problem. I am running a bare minimum tank and don't die or see any suddenly massive hull drops. Perhaps your resistance is to low or you are not using shields?

Based on my own experience running normal and Elite I don't feel like a Nerf is required.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the build like low resistance. What is the hull and shield resistance? Its not normal to be 1 shot from hull health and its not what I am seeing in game.

I think the issue we're having is the frequency. High DPSers are being punished for building for high DPS.
Glass cannon or not, we should at least have a chance to survive. But some of us will die, respawn, and immediately die again within 3 seconds of respawning to another Detonate. It's why I want some sort of immunity, even if it's like 20-30 seconds.

Or if i completely destroy a ship before it can detonate, that should be it.. no detonate. But they seem to detonate after they should be dead.. We should be getting warp core breaches.

You're running a tank, even a bare minimum tank. Well this is just like any other mmo. There are your tanks, your DPS, your healers, your wizards. I play as a space wizard, crowd control and such.
I have a raider pilot captain that would be more like a ranger. With positional damage.
My carrier captain has a lot of heals.

The problem is, these detonates are going off so frequently. I even run Hull Imagers, so i'll often have additional hull, as well as overshields. And i'll still get 1 shotted for 90k+ by a detonate.
And we can't brace for impact, which is what i do for warp core breaches.

Trust me, you don't want everyone flying tanky ships. The lack of DPS will just make missions/TFOs take way too long.

I am just not seeing that. I have effectively zero tank the bare minimum not even Hull Imagers. I have 1 RSP2, 1 Rally Point Marker 1 and a few sources of low level temp hitpoints and I am not seeing one shots, or a immediately die within 3 seconds. So we do have a chance of survival.

Space Wizards are surly using Temporal Operative so if they are being 1 shot which shouldn't happen anyway they will Auto teleport and survive. I think the problem is not something that needs to be nerfed but rather comes down to problems with a players build or problem with player piloting.

You play a space wizard and crowd control so why are you even being hit? Are you flying point blank into the centre of your own crowd control gravity wells? One decent gravity well and you should be 100% safe from the explosions.

majorcharvenak · September 2023

pottsey5g wrote: »

Those of you with problems are you running glass cannons or small ships with low HP? I don't get why the detonation is a problem. I am running a bare minimum tank and don't die or see any suddenly massive hull drops. Perhaps your resistance is to low or you are not using shields?

Based on my own experience running normal and Elite I don't feel like a Nerf is required.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the build like low resistance. What is the hull and shield resistance? Its not normal to be 1 shot from hull health and its not what I am seeing in game.

Oh, it is happening (in SB1 TFO at least). Granted it was much worse upon release, but it's a bit better now that folks know what to expect. I run on a sci EPG build with enough hull strength and DR to survive a hit but, as OP mentioned, there are times when you get hit twice from a nearby second sphere (which I don't survive). Sometimes, you die at the respawn point because it is near where the occasional sphere spawns in and dies because another teammate zealously took it out too close to you. It happens, more than you might have experienced, depending on how often you run that particular TFO and whom you ran it with.

Like I and others have mentioned, folks having raid awareness of what is going on and how to adapt can help mitigate some of this issue but detonate still hits awfully hard. If the devs do adjust, I hope they keep or increase the damage for higher difficulty settings (if they ever release it that is) but for normal play it is a bit much.

phoenixc · September 2023

The ironic thing is that supposedly the new "Assimilator" unit was added to make the classic Cube meaner, but it didn't work that way because the detonate ability has made the Sphere the meanest Borg unit instead.

majorcharvenak · September 2023

phoenixc#0738 wrote: »

The ironic thing is that supposedly the new "Assimilator" unit was added to make the classic Cube meaner, but it didn't work that way because the detonate ability has made the Sphere the meanest Borg unit instead.

Truth! Sometimes I am doing a double take with borg spheres in non-event content.

theraven2378 · September 2023

I've had to go to using the digitiser plasma weapons, the number of Sphere self destructs dropped off dramatically

Feedback: nerf the new borg Detonate ability.

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