Pottsey, you're quite aspirational, and this is admirable. However, I have had my builds dismissed as "useless" by people with the DPS League logo in their sigs - including the very ship you see below, my beloved Yorktown-class (5 beam banks, two torpedo launchers, one mine launcher, three RCS accelerators because otherwise she handles like a cow on ice). Maybe you should direct this message at the self-proclaimed members of the League?
Gosh this has been around forever and is meant to crushing, know what enemies have it, keep an eye on their ability, and stop firing or get out of range. It still pops me from time to time, but it is meant to. To keep you on your toes, to make enemies fell a bit more shall we say dangerous. But they really don't feel anymore dangerous, just a bit trolly sometimes. lol
Maybe it is though, considering that most of the content in the game promotes exactly that: DPS'ing as much as possible.
No. The game doesn't promote DPS. Some players promote DPS. They even have an organization of sorts for it. Other hand, I've successfully played through the entire storyline on multiple characters without having to chase the DPS dragon. My builds would be considered "useless" by the DPS League (I know this because I've seen similar builds dismissed the same way), yet they are perfectly functional - and not instantly destroyed just because one enemy ship has Feedback Pulse.
When a game has destroying enemies and hence dealing damage as its main objectives, it is promoting DPS.
The fact that you can choose to do something else, doesn't change that the game actively encourages dealing more damage since that's the only way to complete most objectives. Although newer content tends to autocomplete regardless of how much damage the players deal, for years 'dealing damage' was the only way to play most missions.
Maybe it is though, considering that most of the content in the game promotes exactly that: DPS'ing as much as possible.
No. The game doesn't promote DPS. Some players promote DPS. They even have an organization of sorts for it. Other hand, I've successfully played through the entire storyline on multiple characters without having to chase the DPS dragon. My builds would be considered "useless" by the DPS League (I know this because I've seen similar builds dismissed the same way), yet they are perfectly functional - and not instantly destroyed just because one enemy ship has Feedback Pulse.
Agreed. I have 1 character out of ~20 where I've decided to work specifically on space magic DPS for a change of pace, the rest just follow a theme like "Science alien in Tholian ships", "TOS engineer in a TOS Connie", "Klingon Fek'Ihri ship commander with all the flame traits and consoles" etc.
Most players don't consider ISE or DPS the real endgame, it's Space Barbie.
Same here (sort of). For the record: I was not suggesting that 'chasing DPS dragons' is the only valid way of playing. I was pointing out that the game encourages the dealing of damage as this is the main way to deal with whatever is thrown at you (instead of, say, solving puzzles or merely disabling an opponent with a tractor beam or something like that).
That's why I'm of the opinion that (and this is the rest of my comment above, that people were quoting)
Maybe it is though, considering that most of the content in the game promotes exactly that: DPS'ing as much as possible.
While I agree that players also need to use their situational awareness, it's also not surprising that players are taking issue with an ability that effectively renders your entire build useless (and even worse, kills yourself).
FBP is rightly disliked because it effectively does the opposite thing of what the rest of the game expects from players (ie, dealing damage) if they want to complete the content. Whether people actively 'chase' higher - and absurdly high - numbers or not, the incentive obviously exists.
Pottsey, you're quite aspirational, and this is admirable. However, I have had my builds dismissed as "useless" by people with the DPS League logo in their sigs - including the very ship you see below, my beloved Yorktown-class (5 beam banks, two torpedo launchers, one mine launcher, three RCS accelerators because otherwise she handles like a cow on ice). Maybe you should direct this message at the self-proclaimed members of the League?
Thank you. I really don't like Elitist behaviour directed at you or anyone. No one in or outside of the DPS League should be dismissing anyone due to there builds. I have taken your comment a little too personally as I have spent many hours writing guides for the DPS League and trying to help people with builds and so I see negative comments aimed at the League as also aimed at myself and others.
Its not the DPS League that are dismissing your builds. Its a few bad apples who need to be called out for there behaviour. If its functional and meets the minimum DPS requirements for the TFO then player should be free to take what ever type of build they like.
I have been flying a Tricobalt boat with hangar pets at primary for the past 6 months. Personally I prefer off meta builds like we both use.
For your turn rate problem I run into that a lot with Carriers and I prefer the big slow ships. What I found helps is the Prevailing Innervated Impulse Engine. Every time we use a Tactical Firing mode we get 350% turn rate for 5 seconds. There are 2 more versions one that triggers on control/Drain and another that triggers on shield/hull healing.
I understand the grievance with NPC's FBP activity.
I've found that there's actually a few ways to counteract FBP. They're all not popular with DPS builds though so feel free to incorporate any that works with your build.
Reverse Shield Polarity (heals percentage of your shields upon receiving energy damage) - 50% of FBP damage is absorbed by your shields and 50% on your hull.
Consoles or Traits that Disable targets (FBP damage is based on EPG Skill and Auxiliary Subsystem Power level)
Energy Weapons Duty Officer (Small chance to remove 1 buff from target variant per energy weapons activation)
Space Reputation Trait: Energy Refrequencer (Capped Small Heals on your Hull HP for each energy weapon damage you do but every bit of help adds up especially if you have good firing cycle haste)
Space Reputation Ability: Deploy Sensor Interference Platform (-75% Damage done by enemies within 10km of the platform) - this is probably the most sensible method against FBP for DPS builds. Its 5 minute cooldown makes this ability very situational though.
There are probably more that I haven't covered but I hope any of those help.
EDIT: In the context of the video though, I think it's just tough luck as the Mirror Enterprise is not supposed to be nuked at the start of the combat sequence and players are forced to do the intended "TFO mechanics". It was just unfortunate that your AoE attacks killed you in the process.
Cheers! o7
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
For your turn rate problem I run into that a lot with Carriers and I prefer the big slow ships. What I found helps is the Prevailing Innervated Impulse Engine. Every time we use a Tactical Firing mode we get 350% turn rate for 5 seconds. There are 2 more versions one that triggers on control/Drain and another that triggers on shield/hull healing.
I got a friend who basically says that the hull healing version is the absolute best for ANYTHING. Doesn't matter what build you're going for, it MUST have that Impulse Engine.
Admittedly though he also said that no ship will EVER beat the Temporal Multi-Mission Sci, but he's running around in a Pilot Nova at the moment. I admit I get a bit irked when he goes "best in slot mode", and even admits to beating a dead horse over it, but it does happen to synergize pretty well with Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck. I just personally prefer my full Kobali set and sometimes get thrown for a moment if I am using those engines and pop a heal. And my Megawell is using the full Temporal set. Its personal preference.
For your turn rate problem I run into that a lot with Carriers and I prefer the big slow ships. What I found helps is the Prevailing Innervated Impulse Engine. Every time we use a Tactical Firing mode we get 350% turn rate for 5 seconds. There are 2 more versions one that triggers on control/Drain and another that triggers on shield/hull healing.
I got a friend who basically says that the hull healing version is the absolute best for ANYTHING. Doesn't matter what build you're going for, it MUST have that Impulse Engine.
Admittedly though he also said that no ship will EVER beat the Temporal Multi-Mission Sci, but he's running around in a Pilot Nova at the moment. I admit I get a bit irked when he goes "best in slot mode", and even admits to beating a dead horse over it, but it does happen to synergize pretty well with Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck. I just personally prefer my full Kobali set and sometimes get thrown for a moment if I am using those engines and pop a heal. And my Megawell is using the full Temporal set. Its personal preference.
He likely wouldn't like my build then as I have zero Bridge Officer hull or shield healing to trigger the engine as I use passive regen. Personably I only use the engines on the largest ships. I find Cruisers are just about right without them and anything smaller then a Cruiser is to fast for me without the engine let alone with the boost. Its only the big Carriers and Dreadnoughts that I prefer to have a bit of extra turn rate boost. I guess I am trying to say I find Cruisers the sweat spot for turn rate.
I have not run into any problems with FBP and I tend to run cruisers or carriers. I also play on Normal difficulty, though I could probably run Advanced if I wanted (Note I said 'if I wanted', I don't want).
I've done enough damage with one of my ships to earn the Bronze level in the DPS league and I'm not even sure which ship and where I got it from. I just noticed it one day and thought "Oh, cool" and continued playing. This was some years ago and I haven't really changed much since my playstyle is fine. I can kill things and rarely pop anymore.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
I am going to disengage from this thread, at least for now. When people are (presumably) suggesting in good faith that shield tankery can a counter to a power that ignores 50% of your shields and has plenty of damage left over to turn you into a flying ball of plasma, something has gotten lost in the conversation. This has been brought up many times in the past, and never meaningfully addressed (I searched). I'm not sure why that is.
I'll leave the topic on this note: Why is it necessary, prudent, and proper for DEW captains to get lolganked by random little Terran science ships in Counterpoint or Iuppiter Iratus when torp and EPG captains suffer from no such concern? Either remove it from randomly appearing mobs or change FBP to reflect damage from *any* source, not just energy weapons.
Feedback Pulse is definitely one of those powers that doesn't work well in practice due to the rules being different between players and NPCs. While waxing the theoretical over what could or should be done is fun, the most pragmatic advice I can offer is to invest a damage immunity into your build. (Improved) Temporal Insight starship trait is relatively accessible if you were around for a temporal recruit event. Popping a hull heal right as you engage will give you temporary damage immunity long enough to toast a wave of those science ships. Sit back and chill for the next one while your teammates clear it while you wait for the cooldown.
For your turn rate problem I run into that a lot with Carriers and I prefer the big slow ships. What I found helps is the Prevailing Innervated Impulse Engine. Every time we use a Tactical Firing mode we get 350% turn rate for 5 seconds. There are 2 more versions one that triggers on control/Drain and another that triggers on shield/hull healing.
I got a friend who basically says that the hull healing version is the absolute best for ANYTHING. Doesn't matter what build you're going for, it MUST have that Impulse Engine.
Admittedly though he also said that no ship will EVER beat the Temporal Multi-Mission Sci, but he's running around in a Pilot Nova at the moment. I admit I get a bit irked when he goes "best in slot mode", and even admits to beating a dead horse over it, but it does happen to synergize pretty well with Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck. I just personally prefer my full Kobali set and sometimes get thrown for a moment if I am using those engines and pop a heal. And my Megawell is using the full Temporal set. Its personal preference.
Yeah, it is unfortunate when people get stuck in the mud with flavor of the month meta components. Personally speaking, I don't really enjoy how the engines function in practice.
Conversely, I absolutely adore how the Emergency Conn Hologram(phoenix store) + EPTEngines "feels" and have been slowly integrating it into most of my builds over the past year or two. I've even been running Aux2Dampeners on the bigger ships that have the extra engineering seats as well. Most players haven't touched that ability since.. Legacy of Romulus.. but it works wonders in this setup to shorten those turning circles into something more manageable on carriers and dreadnoughts.
As someone who loves to tinker and has often stumbled upon "meta" synergies before they become wildly known, it really does make me sad when people reduce buildcraft into absolutes like "you must use X or your build is non-viable".
I am going to disengage from this thread, at least for now. When people are (presumably) suggesting in good faith that shield tankery can a counter to a power that ignores 50% of your shields and has plenty of damage left over to turn you into a flying ball of plasma, something has gotten lost in the conversation. This has been brought up many times in the past, and never meaningfully addressed (I searched). I'm not sure why that is.
I'll leave the topic on this note: Why is it necessary, prudent, and proper for DEW captains to get lolganked by random little Terran science ships in Counterpoint or Iuppiter Iratus when torp and EPG captains suffer from no such concern? Either remove it from randomly appearing mobs or change FBP to reflect damage from *any* source, not just energy weapons.
We are suggesting shields in good faith as it works. In a decent build there wont be enough damage left over to hull to turn your ship into a flying ball of plasma. Shields are cutting the damage to your hull in half before dodge, defence and resistance.
The 50% works as it reduces the damage to hull by 50% . Dodge reduces the damage by 30%, shields reduce the remaining damage by 50%. Hull resistance removes another 70% of the remaining damage, then remove some more damage from defence and you are on a low hull damage and its survivable. I always get the math wrong but that's only something like 20% FeedBackPulse to hull or possibly less under 10%. That's not even counting all the other FBP counters I gave you.
As for your 2nd question why should a directed energy counter apply to none directed energy builds? I play mines and pets and counters from them do not effect directed energy builds. Should I ask that counters that effect my builds also effect your energy weapons?
In short there are many solutions to your FBP problem and we are happy to help explain how they work.
After reading the OP's responses to the various suggestions, offered here by people who have repeatedly proven they are both knowledgeable about and experienced in playing this game well, I can only come to one conclusion. Based on the OP's last post, he/she/they is absolutely convinced he/she/they are is/are correct in all particulars originally posted. Further, the advice given herein by people who have repeatedly proven they are both knowledgeable about and experienced in playing this game well is going to be willfully ignored by the OP. Because it doesn't fit the narrative he/she/they is/are proposing.
You can lead a horse to water. But you cannot make it drink.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Well, as OP has stated they are abandoning the thread and seem to be unwilling to listen to advice, we'll be closing this "discussion". /Thread
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Comments
When a game has destroying enemies and hence dealing damage as its main objectives, it is promoting DPS.
The fact that you can choose to do something else, doesn't change that the game actively encourages dealing more damage since that's the only way to complete most objectives. Although newer content tends to autocomplete regardless of how much damage the players deal, for years 'dealing damage' was the only way to play most missions.
Same here (sort of). For the record: I was not suggesting that 'chasing DPS dragons' is the only valid way of playing. I was pointing out that the game encourages the dealing of damage as this is the main way to deal with whatever is thrown at you (instead of, say, solving puzzles or merely disabling an opponent with a tractor beam or something like that).
That's why I'm of the opinion that (and this is the rest of my comment above, that people were quoting)
FBP is rightly disliked because it effectively does the opposite thing of what the rest of the game expects from players (ie, dealing damage) if they want to complete the content. Whether people actively 'chase' higher - and absurdly high - numbers or not, the incentive obviously exists.
Its not the DPS League that are dismissing your builds. Its a few bad apples who need to be called out for there behaviour. If its functional and meets the minimum DPS requirements for the TFO then player should be free to take what ever type of build they like.
I have been flying a Tricobalt boat with hangar pets at primary for the past 6 months. Personally I prefer off meta builds like we both use.
For your turn rate problem I run into that a lot with Carriers and I prefer the big slow ships. What I found helps is the Prevailing Innervated Impulse Engine. Every time we use a Tactical Firing mode we get 350% turn rate for 5 seconds. There are 2 more versions one that triggers on control/Drain and another that triggers on shield/hull healing.
I've found that there's actually a few ways to counteract FBP. They're all not popular with DPS builds though so feel free to incorporate any that works with your build.
There are probably more that I haven't covered but I hope any of those help.
EDIT: In the context of the video though, I think it's just tough luck as the Mirror Enterprise is not supposed to be nuked at the start of the combat sequence and players are forced to do the intended "TFO mechanics". It was just unfortunate that your AoE attacks killed you in the process.
Cheers! o7
I got a friend who basically says that the hull healing version is the absolute best for ANYTHING. Doesn't matter what build you're going for, it MUST have that Impulse Engine.
Admittedly though he also said that no ship will EVER beat the Temporal Multi-Mission Sci, but he's running around in a Pilot Nova at the moment. I admit I get a bit irked when he goes "best in slot mode", and even admits to beating a dead horse over it, but it does happen to synergize pretty well with Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck. I just personally prefer my full Kobali set and sometimes get thrown for a moment if I am using those engines and pop a heal. And my Megawell is using the full Temporal set. Its personal preference.
I've done enough damage with one of my ships to earn the Bronze level in the DPS league and I'm not even sure which ship and where I got it from. I just noticed it one day and thought "Oh, cool" and continued playing. This was some years ago and I haven't really changed much since my playstyle is fine. I can kill things and rarely pop anymore.
I'll leave the topic on this note: Why is it necessary, prudent, and proper for DEW captains to get lolganked by random little Terran science ships in Counterpoint or Iuppiter Iratus when torp and EPG captains suffer from no such concern? Either remove it from randomly appearing mobs or change FBP to reflect damage from *any* source, not just energy weapons.
Yeah, it is unfortunate when people get stuck in the mud with flavor of the month meta components. Personally speaking, I don't really enjoy how the engines function in practice.
Conversely, I absolutely adore how the Emergency Conn Hologram(phoenix store) + EPTEngines "feels" and have been slowly integrating it into most of my builds over the past year or two. I've even been running Aux2Dampeners on the bigger ships that have the extra engineering seats as well. Most players haven't touched that ability since.. Legacy of Romulus.. but it works wonders in this setup to shorten those turning circles into something more manageable on carriers and dreadnoughts.
As someone who loves to tinker and has often stumbled upon "meta" synergies before they become wildly known, it really does make me sad when people reduce buildcraft into absolutes like "you must use X or your build is non-viable".
The 50% works as it reduces the damage to hull by 50% . Dodge reduces the damage by 30%, shields reduce the remaining damage by 50%. Hull resistance removes another 70% of the remaining damage, then remove some more damage from defence and you are on a low hull damage and its survivable. I always get the math wrong but that's only something like 20% FeedBackPulse to hull or possibly less under 10%. That's not even counting all the other FBP counters I gave you.
As for your 2nd question why should a directed energy counter apply to none directed energy builds? I play mines and pets and counters from them do not effect directed energy builds. Should I ask that counters that effect my builds also effect your energy weapons?
In short there are many solutions to your FBP problem and we are happy to help explain how they work.
You can lead a horse to water. But you cannot make it drink.
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