Honestly, since the Klingon Civil War arc comes after the Klingon War arc chronologically, I don't think J'Ula should even factor into it. Just clean up the graphics, maybe find some cruft in the story to streamline, and rotate them back in. As it stands, the last we see of B'vat is on Imaga, just after he finds out he's lost control of the Planet Killer. After that, he simply vanishes without a trace. I find that unsatisfactory - he was one of the prime movers behind the early-game conflict (although I suspect he was either replaced by an Undine or somehow suborned by them - his speech on Imaga sounds rather reminiscent of what we heard from Sokkath at P'jem and Cooper after he was replaced), and he should be either killed or imprisoned at the end.
(In thinking it over, replacement by Undine might explain why B'vat doesn't remember his younger self asking us to give him "a warrior's death", because the replacement didn't quite get all the memories. In which case I'd like to see him transform just before that final fight in front of Paris.)
Actually, originally, B'vat doesn't just disappear. In the removed episodes, B'vat kidnaps Miral Paris and takes her to the past, using her DNA to cure the Klingon Augment virus and fulfilling the prophecy of the Kuva'magh. The player, though, follows B'vat to the past, and with younger B'vat's urging at being disgusted with his future self, kills B'vat, thus concluding his storyline.
Yes, that was what I was referring to when I asked to return the story after streamlining. Because currently, the Klingon War pretty much ends with us defeating the Planet Killer and B'vat disappearing, as if this were his only iron in the fire. Before, that was a setback, but he decided that he could keep the war going by kidnapping the Kuvah'magh and using her DNA to "fix" the Klingons in the 23rd century. That gave his story a satisfactory, albeit somewhat confusing if you look too closely, ending. (And as I said in another thread, wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey - history is both altered and unaltered, depending on where you're looking at.) And that's what I want back, before being sent off to look into what the Tal'Shiar has been up to lately. It also, IMO, helps explain why the Klingons are willing to deal with mol'Rihan on D'Tan's own terms, rather than just taking over - the revelation of what B'vat was up to kind of shook things up in the Empire, leading Jm'pok to be a little more circumspect while he figured out who could still be trusted in his own government.
Honestly, since the Klingon Civil War arc comes after the Klingon War arc chronologically, I don't think J'Ula should even factor into it. Just clean up the graphics, maybe find some cruft in the story to streamline, and rotate them back in. As it stands, the last we see of B'vat is on Imaga, just after he finds out he's lost control of the Planet Killer. After that, he simply vanishes without a trace. I find that unsatisfactory - he was one of the prime movers behind the early-game conflict (although I suspect he was either replaced by an Undine or somehow suborned by them - his speech on Imaga sounds rather reminiscent of what we heard from Sokkath at P'jem and Cooper after he was replaced), and he should be either killed or imprisoned at the end.
(In thinking it over, replacement by Undine might explain why B'vat doesn't remember his younger self asking us to give him "a warrior's death", because the replacement didn't quite get all the memories. In which case I'd like to see him transform just before that final fight in front of Paris.)
Actually, originally, B'vat doesn't just disappear. In the removed episodes, B'vat kidnaps Miral Paris and takes her to the past, using her DNA to cure the Klingon Augment virus and fulfilling the prophecy of the Kuva'magh. The player, though, follows B'vat to the past, and with younger B'vat's urging at being disgusted with his future self, kills B'vat, thus concluding his storyline.
Yes, that was what I was referring to when I asked to return the story after streamlining. Because currently, the Klingon War pretty much ends with us defeating the Planet Killer and B'vat disappearing, as if this were his only iron in the fire. Before, that was a setback, but he decided that he could keep the war going by kidnapping the Kuvah'magh and using her DNA to "fix" the Klingons in the 23rd century. That gave his story a satisfactory, albeit somewhat confusing if you look too closely, ending. (And as I said in another thread, wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey - history is both altered and unaltered, depending on where you're looking at.) And that's what I want back, before being sent off to look into what the Tal'Shiar has been up to lately. It also, IMO, helps explain why the Klingons are willing to deal with mol'Rihan on D'Tan's own terms, rather than just taking over - the revelation of what B'vat was up to kind of shook things up in the Empire, leading Jm'pok to be a little more circumspect while he figured out who could still be trusted in his own government.
Ok, cool. Yeah, I thought you should've known that. You've been around long enough. 😊
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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that is unlikely. any program undergoing a revamp is copied and the copy is modified. that's a standard in the programming world, that way if something catastrophic happens, it can be pulled offline and the original restored. Could they add them tomorrow? yes. would there be bugs? yes. would they look horrible? YES. the sad thing is they need to do what they apparently cannot afford, hire a couple of devs whose job is nothing but do quality passes on content.
Precisely this!
My whole point, these last few years, is that the pulled versions still exist, they should be able to make them available again until the revamps are done, just add them to the Available tab. They do that, they might find they'll get a lot less pressure from the community to revamp them. We really just want to play them again.
All I will say is that I would love to have those old missions back. Either re-vamped or simply re-instated as they were.
I can't say I favor simple reinstatement, as that still leaves the surface of Rigel IV glitched all to Gre'thor and back.
Yeah I'll second that most of those missions aren't that great once you view them outside of rose tinted light. Sure they were decent for the time, but put them back now as they were would just ruins the memories we have of them.
I'd say better to have them as re-vamped or not at all.
And it's not just glitches it also things like pacing and what not that are badly out of date.
Yeah I'll second that most of those missions aren't that great once you view them outside of rose tinted light. Sure they were decent for the time, but put them back now as they were would just ruins the memories we have of them.
I'd say better to have them as re-vamped or not at all.
And it's not just glitches it also things like pacing and what not that are badly out of date.
Fortunately for you, Cryptic has decided the same, instead of letting the rest of us decide whether or not we enjoy playing them.
Absolutely they are in need of a revamp, that's not in question. But I've recently replayed a bunch of the ancient Romulan and Cardassian missions and had a on of fun. Dated, in many cases broken, but really enjoyable (and not just in a nostalgic way, tho that was a big factor).
Also I could argue that, gameplay wise, the missions they've been putting out these last few years are incredibly badly paced and with some very tedious mechanics, so it's all subjective.
If the devs did add J'Ula to better integrate the DSC elements it would probably be best to make her involvement very low key, like having an antique Klingon ship skulking around not engaging the Federation forces but rather seen for a few seconds (and mentioned to underline that it was there) before using an unfamiliar cloak type to disappear.
The mystery could then be used to shortcut some of the more tedious parts by having the player attempt to track the ship and instead find something B'vat is up to, or it could send a message (probably with bad lighting or something else to hint that it is J'Ula without being blatantly obvious) that gives the players a clue that allows them to bypass one of the boring (and cut) parts and possibly include a cryptic comment that not all is as it should be in the empire (foreshadowing the Undine since Adet'pa probably noticed something about them, and the revolution at the same time).
And if they want to really get crazy, they could find evidence that someone else had used the Guardian of Forever for something while the players were distracting B'vat, which they may or not figure out was something like sending the plans and theory of the "unfamiliar" cloak type back to a minor house called Mo'kai in the past which gave them an advantage in inter-house rivalries and enabled them to parlay it into becoming a Great house and the cloak tech made its way out to other houses eventually and that surprised the Federation at a certain incident at some binary stars...
Or something like that anyway, there are quite a few possibilities that could improve the story flow and better integrate the DSC elements of the game at the same time.
If the devs did add J'Ula to better integrate the DSC elements it would probably be best to make her involvement very low key, like having an antique Klingon ship skulking around not engaging the Federation forces but rather seen for a few seconds (and mentioned to underline that it was there) before using an unfamiliar cloak type to disappear.
The mystery could then be used to shortcut some of the more tedious parts by having the player attempt to track the ship and instead find something B'vat is up to, or it could send a message (probably with bad lighting or something else to hint that it is J'Ula without being blatantly obvious) that gives the players a clue that allows them to bypass one of the boring (and cut) parts and possibly include a cryptic comment that not all is as it should be in the empire (foreshadowing the Undine since Adet'pa probably noticed something about them, and the revolution at the same time).
And if they want to really get crazy, they could find evidence that someone else had used the Guardian of Forever for something while the players were distracting B'vat, which they may or not figure out was something like sending the plans and theory of the "unfamiliar" cloak type back to a minor house called Mo'kai in the past which gave them an advantage in inter-house rivalries and enabled them to parlay it into becoming a Great house and the cloak tech made its way out to other houses eventually and that surprised the Federation at a certain incident at some binary stars...
Or something like that anyway, there are quite a few possibilities that could improve the story flow and better integrate the DSC elements of the game at the same time.
It's a nice idea, however B'Vat travels back to the 2270s, which is 11 years after J'Ula's jump to the 25th century, J'Ula would have to travel back in time for her to show up in "Past Inperfect", however it makes more sense if another member of Mo'Kai fulfilled that role instead like the Original Aakar, you know the more intimidating one they had prior to Season 20, just reuse the character model.
besides of you can integrate J'ula into the story without her showing up, have an NPC talk to B'vat about his "deal with Matriarch" then beam out using the DSC klingon beam out effect (which ironically isn't the same as in the show as in the show it's red and it's green in the game). That's J'ula integrated into the story without having her show up "in the flesh" so to speak.
Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
You have to remember that game development is a mix of give & take, push & shove. Kael isn't a dev that works on the game, so he can only relay to the devs what it is that the players want to see worked on.
In the past when they revamped the Klingon starting missions & tutorial during the year of Klingon, they were able to do those because they were already working on Klingon assets, so it was easy for them to do both at the same time.
Working on the Klingon War missions wouldn't exactly be the same ease as the Klingon missions were since there's a bunch of different assets for each mission. I think for them to work on them, they'd have to do what they said and cease doing a new mission release.
Ah, but it also occurred to Kael during a recent livestream that they could actually use the new Federation kit they developed for the last FED tutorial revamp to help update the Starfleet side of those missions. So, more work has been done than they initially realized. They just need to find time in the development schedule.
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Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
I'm the type of guy who wants his cake and eat it too, So I'll be happy if we get Both Old (possibly Revamped) and New Stories.
Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
I'm the type of guy who wants his cake and eat it too, So I'll be happy if we get Both Old (possibly Revamped) and New Stories.
I just want 'em back, the Klingon war arc is soooo lacking....it don't feel 'streamlined', it feels.....like a movie one loves, edited for TV.
Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
I'm the type of guy who wants his cake and eat it too, So I'll be happy if we get Both Old (possibly Revamped) and New Stories.
I just want 'em back, the Klingon war arc is soooo lacking....it don't feel 'streamlined', it feels.....like a movie one loves, edited for TV.
I know what you mean, the game is definitely less steamlined than before the missing Klingon missions, Wasteland, Spectres and Cold War arcs all chronologically took place before the Iconian War, most of the newer players would find them after hitting the cap of lvl 65.
Well it’s too bad. A few months ago Kael was saying he was proud that he helped convince the developers to set up a timetable to restore these missions and address the visual spam. Now he is saying that because the developers want to tell new stories, they can’t restore these missions. And visual spam like the dead dilex is a topic which is discussed less and less as well. Little discussion doesn’t mean these issues are not being worked on either— but it does make me nervous.
I'm the type of guy who wants his cake and eat it too, So I'll be happy if we get Both Old (possibly Revamped) and New Stories.
I just want 'em back, the Klingon war arc is soooo lacking....it don't feel 'streamlined', it feels.....like a movie one loves, edited for TV.
I know what you mean, the game is definitely less steamlined than before the missing Klingon missions, Wasteland, Spectres and Cold War arcs all chronologically took place before the Iconian War, most of the newer players would find them after hitting the cap of lvl 65.
Those mission arcs also contain critical story. The Preservers, the introduction of the Enterprise F, etc. It's also weird with the Nimbus arc taken out of the mission flow. (Especially with KDF characters wondering where "the stolen weapons taken to Nimbus" are.)
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Ok, cool. Yeah, I thought you should've known that. You've been around long enough. 😊
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Precisely this!
My whole point, these last few years, is that the pulled versions still exist, they should be able to make them available again until the revamps are done, just add them to the Available tab. They do that, they might find they'll get a lot less pressure from the community to revamp them. We really just want to play them again.
Yeah I'll second that most of those missions aren't that great once you view them outside of rose tinted light. Sure they were decent for the time, but put them back now as they were would just ruins the memories we have of them.
I'd say better to have them as re-vamped or not at all.
And it's not just glitches it also things like pacing and what not that are badly out of date.
Fortunately for you, Cryptic has decided the same, instead of letting the rest of us decide whether or not we enjoy playing them.
Absolutely they are in need of a revamp, that's not in question. But I've recently replayed a bunch of the ancient Romulan and Cardassian missions and had a on of fun. Dated, in many cases broken, but really enjoyable (and not just in a nostalgic way, tho that was a big factor).
Also I could argue that, gameplay wise, the missions they've been putting out these last few years are incredibly badly paced and with some very tedious mechanics, so it's all subjective.
The mystery could then be used to shortcut some of the more tedious parts by having the player attempt to track the ship and instead find something B'vat is up to, or it could send a message (probably with bad lighting or something else to hint that it is J'Ula without being blatantly obvious) that gives the players a clue that allows them to bypass one of the boring (and cut) parts and possibly include a cryptic comment that not all is as it should be in the empire (foreshadowing the Undine since Adet'pa probably noticed something about them, and the revolution at the same time).
And if they want to really get crazy, they could find evidence that someone else had used the Guardian of Forever for something while the players were distracting B'vat, which they may or not figure out was something like sending the plans and theory of the "unfamiliar" cloak type back to a minor house called Mo'kai in the past which gave them an advantage in inter-house rivalries and enabled them to parlay it into becoming a Great house and the cloak tech made its way out to other houses eventually and that surprised the Federation at a certain incident at some binary stars...
Or something like that anyway, there are quite a few possibilities that could improve the story flow and better integrate the DSC elements of the game at the same time.
It's a nice idea, however B'Vat travels back to the 2270s, which is 11 years after J'Ula's jump to the 25th century, J'Ula would have to travel back in time for her to show up in "Past Inperfect", however it makes more sense if another member of Mo'Kai fulfilled that role instead like the Original Aakar, you know the more intimidating one they had prior to Season 20, just reuse the character model.
You have to remember that game development is a mix of give & take, push & shove. Kael isn't a dev that works on the game, so he can only relay to the devs what it is that the players want to see worked on.
In the past when they revamped the Klingon starting missions & tutorial during the year of Klingon, they were able to do those because they were already working on Klingon assets, so it was easy for them to do both at the same time.
Working on the Klingon War missions wouldn't exactly be the same ease as the Klingon missions were since there's a bunch of different assets for each mission. I think for them to work on them, they'd have to do what they said and cease doing a new mission release.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
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I'm the type of guy who wants his cake and eat it too, So I'll be happy if we get Both Old (possibly Revamped) and New Stories.
I just want 'em back, the Klingon war arc is soooo lacking....it don't feel 'streamlined', it feels.....like a movie one loves, edited for TV.
I know what you mean, the game is definitely less steamlined than before the missing Klingon missions, Wasteland, Spectres and Cold War arcs all chronologically took place before the Iconian War, most of the newer players would find them after hitting the cap of lvl 65.
Those mission arcs also contain critical story. The Preservers, the introduction of the Enterprise F, etc. It's also weird with the Nimbus arc taken out of the mission flow. (Especially with KDF characters wondering where "the stolen weapons taken to Nimbus" are.)