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About the Upcoming Changes to DX/OS Support: And Why i think they need to be reconsidered.
ghosthunter94
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
I wouldn't blame anyone if maybe they are tired of seeing posts like this, but i believe this needs to be said.
I don't believe its "I Quit" type post, but still, its a voice of concern.
I saw a little bit late that the announcement was made that Windows 7 and Direct X version 10 would be dropped from support effective 2-15-2022.
As someone who has used Win 7 with a Passion over the years, I must say its upsetting.
I'm Autistic and have a fear of Certain forms of Change, But this fear is especially present in regard to Technological Change, Which i think some people can understand and relate to.
That said, Please excuse me when i voice my thoughts and feelings in relation to these upcoming changes, and please go easy on me, I honestly mean well when i write this post, and whatever i write is because i'm concerned, perhaps fearful.
I originally got into the game at the end of 2018 before stopping for a bit in November 2019 (initially when a patch was released and caused some weird issues).
After returning to Star Trek Online back in April after a year, I was hoping enjoy it more, but then i see the recent September Update talking about this plan?
I feel like i was basically told to stop enjoying it or something to that effect.
I understand, Win 7 has been EOL for a While by Now, but it doesn't mean i have to like it.
There are reasons why i've personally stuck around Win 7 for so long, and i think a number of you can relate.
I personally do not like where Microsoft had gone with their OS Installments that followed Windows 7, I honestly hate(d) them.
While i can't speak much for Windows 8/8.1, Just because i haven't had any real experience with it, I know that i've had a bit of a Disliking for Win 10.
Not just because i guess there is a Spyware Issue (Which i just recently found out about), But because it looked so different, and didn't really seem to uphold the whole "Elements of Win 7 and Win 8" that i thought i heard of at one point.
And then i see what is to come with Windows 11, no matter how official Win 11 is?
How could i as someone who fears change just sit here and be forced to accept and like this, Or anyone else?
I know anyone could tell me something like: "Time and Tech wait for no man", The Time Part, Maybe, But honestly, the whole tech part is just utter B-S in my opinion.
Change should only be an option, and likely voluntary, not something that is Mandatory or to be basically forced upon someone.
Because i will tell you right now, We Do NOT need to put up with it, I don't care what anyone else says.
But anyway, I feel like i needed to get all that off my chest.
I apologize if it seems like much, Like i say: I mean well, but i hate/fear certain elements of change, at least where tech is concerned, and whatever i wrote would be me voicing my feelings about what's been going on.
The changes depress me a bit, So i hope you will forgive me in advance.
I also hope Arc Games/Cryptic Studios, or whoever runs STO currently, will reconsider their support change deadline and move it to January 2023, or at least December 2022, when Windows 7 PCs eligible for Security Updates through OEM vendors ends.
Because at a time when a Pandemic is Ranging and things are crazy, I feel like we deserve better, perhaps a reprieve if you wanna call it that, for now.
I believe we deserve a little more time than this to enjoy what we love, and certainly what i love.
And hey, By doing this, Arc/Cryptic can continue to make more money, If that was to be a concern on their end.
You don't have to agree with me on this, But i hope you will at least understand how i feel at the moment.
I don't believe its "I Quit" type post, but still, its a voice of concern.
I saw a little bit late that the announcement was made that Windows 7 and Direct X version 10 would be dropped from support effective 2-15-2022.
As someone who has used Win 7 with a Passion over the years, I must say its upsetting.
I'm Autistic and have a fear of Certain forms of Change, But this fear is especially present in regard to Technological Change, Which i think some people can understand and relate to.
That said, Please excuse me when i voice my thoughts and feelings in relation to these upcoming changes, and please go easy on me, I honestly mean well when i write this post, and whatever i write is because i'm concerned, perhaps fearful.
I originally got into the game at the end of 2018 before stopping for a bit in November 2019 (initially when a patch was released and caused some weird issues).
After returning to Star Trek Online back in April after a year, I was hoping enjoy it more, but then i see the recent September Update talking about this plan?
I feel like i was basically told to stop enjoying it or something to that effect.
I understand, Win 7 has been EOL for a While by Now, but it doesn't mean i have to like it.
There are reasons why i've personally stuck around Win 7 for so long, and i think a number of you can relate.
I personally do not like where Microsoft had gone with their OS Installments that followed Windows 7, I honestly hate(d) them.
While i can't speak much for Windows 8/8.1, Just because i haven't had any real experience with it, I know that i've had a bit of a Disliking for Win 10.
Not just because i guess there is a Spyware Issue (Which i just recently found out about), But because it looked so different, and didn't really seem to uphold the whole "Elements of Win 7 and Win 8" that i thought i heard of at one point.
And then i see what is to come with Windows 11, no matter how official Win 11 is?
How could i as someone who fears change just sit here and be forced to accept and like this, Or anyone else?
I know anyone could tell me something like: "Time and Tech wait for no man", The Time Part, Maybe, But honestly, the whole tech part is just utter B-S in my opinion.
Change should only be an option, and likely voluntary, not something that is Mandatory or to be basically forced upon someone.
Because i will tell you right now, We Do NOT need to put up with it, I don't care what anyone else says.
But anyway, I feel like i needed to get all that off my chest.
I apologize if it seems like much, Like i say: I mean well, but i hate/fear certain elements of change, at least where tech is concerned, and whatever i wrote would be me voicing my feelings about what's been going on.
The changes depress me a bit, So i hope you will forgive me in advance.
I also hope Arc Games/Cryptic Studios, or whoever runs STO currently, will reconsider their support change deadline and move it to January 2023, or at least December 2022, when Windows 7 PCs eligible for Security Updates through OEM vendors ends.
Because at a time when a Pandemic is Ranging and things are crazy, I feel like we deserve better, perhaps a reprieve if you wanna call it that, for now.
I believe we deserve a little more time than this to enjoy what we love, and certainly what i love.
And hey, By doing this, Arc/Cryptic can continue to make more money, If that was to be a concern on their end.
You don't have to agree with me on this, But i hope you will at least understand how i feel at the moment.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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It costs money to support the older OS. QA must be done on 7, QA and support must have 7 PCs or VMs available to test reported issues, developers must either not use some Windows 10 only APIs or must have 2 sets of code for 7 vs 10.
It's cheaper for Cryptic to lose a few holdouts than to support 7 forever.
If you and the few other Windows 7 holdouts could band together and pay Cryptic a million or two, maybe then it would be worth their while. Otherwise, they're a business and must do what's best for them and the vast majority of their customers. Often "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
I do understand. I hated 8 when I had to use it for work, and only moved to 10 because I was forced to to use Microsoft's development tools. That was back in late 2015 though. It's been six years already and it's time for you to either move to 10 or switch to Linux.
Have 10 already, but really looking at Linux.
I switched to linux after xp stopped being used. So, I'm a bit used to the bugs.
Not otherwise.
Its NOT that hard to manage/support 7 for another year, it ISNT forever, so don't give me that.
At this point, I think i'll just file an Appeal to have the deadline reconsidered, along with the Millions of others who Do Not support these changes, and we will do whatever it takes to get it done.
If anyone thinks that is wrong, I have the right as a completely sane person to call you a liar and ignore you.
You are free to express your opinion. But DO NOT lash out at others over it, be it Cryptic itself for the decision or fellow forumites over their opinion on the subject.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
As you say, I have the right to voice how i feel, to which i have done so, and i am merely defending my feelings and beliefs.
If that is wrong, then that is your problem.
However, To an extent, I stand by what i said, call it doing something out of love, fear or whatever, or certainly a fear of change, but i hate having to just sit by and see these radical things/changes happen.
But at any rate, i apologize if anyone sees my actions as a bit strong, I did technically warn about this earlier, despite me meaning well.
As i say, Just understand how i feel and how depressing these changes are to me.
But as i've said, I understand these things, I just wish that Cryptic/Arc would at least consider the fact we're going through a pandemic, and until we're on the trend of getting better with it, then i think it would be nice if they considered an extension until 2023, because by then even OEM Vendor Security Updates will have stopped, and im hoping we'll be on a trend back to normality by then.
That would be a nice Reprieve until then.
Once more though, Sorry If i do lash out at anyone, but as i've said already, I'm Autistic and if i do react strongly, its how you know i've loved something and have certain fears, which i've warned about earlier
And i believe i have the right to defend my Feelings/Beliefs.
Please forgive me in advance.
You are misinterpreting my intent. I was not saying you are wrong in any way. I specifically said that you are free to express your opinions. I was just stating that there is a line that should not be crossed, and making it clear that yes, we've seen this and due to the nature of the subject we'll be keeping an eye on it.
Basically I was saying that you're fine unless you cross the line.
For all intents and purposes... I am flag waving to keep the peace here. You're welcome to some venting, as long as you follow the forum rules. You did come on very strong (by your own admission), which is why I felt the need to step in. I won't be taking any action unless things go south. These kinds of things do tend to attract the wrong kind of attention, and have the potential to devolve into a flamefest. So I was being proactive to try and prevent that. Admittedly it doesn't always work, but... still worth a try.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
That being said, while it might be difficult for you, if you're going to continue to operate in the area of online interaction and gaming, it's a change you will have to face at some point. The good news is, most PC's that currently run Windows 7 easily meet the requirements for Windows 10. I understand that at this point, you don't want Windows 10, but I would suggest sitting down with someone you know who uses Windows 10 and have them run you trough some of the features of the OS if possible. Perhaps if you were able to sit with someone you're comfortable with and go through things in an orderly fashion, you will see that Windows 10 not only isn't as bad as you think but is actually quite good and in most ways, superior to Windows 7.
I covered this in another thread, I was adamantly against Windows 10 at launch. I was a big fan of Windows 7 and for the first year of Windows 10, while I ran 10 on my laptop to 'play with it,' my main PC ran Windows 7. There were elements of Windows 10 that I didn't like and at the time 7 was still perfectly viable. I followed along with 10 though, I approached it with an open mind, and as it was updated, I continued to use it on my back up machine and I was surprised to see that after some time, I started to prefer 10. Honestly though, the difference between the two really isn't that big anyway.. I can honestly say that if you can navigate Windows 7, you can navigate Windows 10. Yes, you will have to search for a few things the first time you use them, but as far as learning it goes.. you have already done most of the work.
Here is what you need to consider.. not only is Cryptic not going to reverse this decision, but as time goes on you will see many other titles taking the same path. Windows 7 compatibility is just going to continue getting less and less common and one day you will reach the point where you just can't use it anymore. Now, I'll give you.. that point probably isn't going to happen within the next year, but it's going to happen at some point. Your only option is going to be to evolve or move on to something else and that choice is yours.
I understand your trepidation and I sympathize, but in the end if you approach with an open mind, I think you will find most of your fears to be unjustified.
I wish you luck.
The devs have already extended Win7 support by a year past Win 7's life and they have given plenty of notice. So we cannot expect them to keep extending this support given how few people use Win 7 and play STO. Its just not cost effective. Why should they keep losing money supporting windows 7 years past is End of Life when almost no one users Win 7 anymore for STO?
Like it or not Windows 7 is dead and is going the same way as Windows XP. Its only going to get worse for Win7 with every passing month.
But yeah, You better believe i'm afraid of certain elements of change, so i'm hoping that can be respected.
While i don't really believe my feelings about 10 will change, even if somehow i was to get into one, as I honestly think i may go mad if i do so, because of how radically different i've seen it look to me, not to mention that there seems to have been a Spyware Problem with it.
But Hey, i'm just glad there's somebody like you.
Yeah, I think you and i can both agree on that about our love of Win 7, I was always to passionate about it, and Win XP back in the day (Try not to feel old, Right?).
It hurt to let go of XP when i did, and after all this time, i know its going to hurt perhaps more repeating it with 7, that's how much i loved them and how afraid of change i am.
And thing is, If Microsoft had extended the support life of their products to 15-20 years instead of just 5-10, 12 if you include OEM Vendor Security support, even while they may make something new, then it may not seem as bad.
And i believe such a thing can be done, It certainly should not be such a hard thing for them to do, and heck, it would make them more of a profit if they did so (in my mind it would) and give us more time to enjoy the OS we love.
Not to mention, Only 5-10 years for the support life of a Product? Not only is that not very long (in my opinion), But That's not really what i would call 'Old', Let alone 'Ancient' as some like to claim it is, I think it makes something quite young in contrary, certainly if you compare it to a person or other things that are older and can get older.
I certainly don't see myself using the new, supposed Windows 11, As the things i've seen based on pre-release images make it appear too radically different, and too much like Apple, which i don't understand and im not sure how that was allowed to happen.
So Yeah, Even if i do get into 10 at any point, Believe me, i would use it as long as i can to avoid Win 11, certainly until 2028 when that gets supposedly unsupported as a whole.
Then again, I think a lot of us were anticipating Win 10 to be the last one , and was believed for a time to be more of a Service or a 'Forever OS', and i may have been just fine with it.
But thanks Sea, I MIGHT keep what you say in mind, even though the thought of making these changes scares/depresses me.
Though i may still (probably) defend my feelings/beliefs and possibly see if i can do something about these changes (Possibly?), but otherwise we will see what happens.
The extended security support is not free. For the companies that want that they have to pay large sums of money. Given how few people still use Win7 with STO the cost is to high for the few users left and this cost doubles every year.
Just use something like http://classicshell.net/ and most of your problems go away. Win10 doesnt have to look radically different you can change it to be similar to Windows 7. I still use the Windows 7 Control Panel as I prefer it over the Win 10 control panel.
EDIT: (I am not saying this is the best classic shell mod its just the one I know from years back when I used to use them)
When Windows 10 first came out, there was a number of trackers that were enabled by default. This was never really a big deal, but it got blown up a bit more then perhaps it should have. The 'trackers' in Windows 10 would collect information on what type of websites you like, what products you frequently buy and things of that nature so it could send you what are called 'targeted advertisements.' These are things you still see today in many browsers and other apps. You ever notice that if you go to Amazon and look for Electric Guitars, the next time you browse facebook you will see ads for Electric Guitars? It's that type of thing. It should also be noted that this tracking only occurred in the bundled browser Internet Explorer which is now Mircosoft Edge. This means that if you used something like Firefox or Chrome it wasn't even effecting you.
Microsoft received a fair amount of backlash for this practice and they have since reduced the tracking though they have not removed it completely. This got blown up though and people were saying it takes bank account information, harvests your Social Security Number, etc.. and none of that was ever true at any point..ever. While Windows 10 does still have some tracking, you can bypass most of it by just using a different browser and if that isn't enough, there are freeware tools that you can run and with a few clicks of the mouse you can turn off all tracking completely. It should be noted that Microsoft is required by law to allow the user to disable tracking and they do. They just don't always make it easy which is why there are free tools available to do it for you.
As for the look of Windows 10, @pottsey5g gave some great advice.. Classic Shell is perfect for people like you. Classic Shell turns Windows 10 into Windows 7.. it looks just like it and functions the same. You see Windows 7, the PC runs Windows 10.. it's a great program and it's completely free. Pottsey gave you a link to look, but in case you missed it, click - here. It's the same link he already provided.
Again, the issue here is that Cryptic isn't going to reverse this decision. At the end of the day, you only have 2 options and that's either upgrade to Windows 10 or stop playing Star Trek Online in February. The good news is, with things like Classic Shell, you can perform this upgrade without losing the look and feel of the OS you currently love.
Classic Shell is great advice, I have used it in the past and it worked absolutely great. I don't use it anymore because I actually grew to prefer the Windows 10 interface but this might be a perfect solution for you.
5-10 years really IS old in the tech world, some devices have been rendered obsolete within a year or two of their release. Tech moves a LOT faster than most other industries do.
Windows 10 really isn't that different from Windows 7 though, if you actually try it I think you'll find that out isn't hard for you to get used to. Windows 8 was a different story altogether, that abomination was a mess because Microsoft was trying to turn home computers into tablets, thankfully they learned from that mistake before making Windows 10.
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide
But is even less in North America (assuming you live there, as Cryptic)
https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/north-america
As i said.. too little, too few, considering that most people can upgrade to 10 for free...
My best friend is like you, very reluctant to change, so i totally understand, i had to sit with him a few days so he could notice that there is some change, but not too much, it took time, but is happy so far!
But they have been working at raising the visual fidelity of the game over time to keep it fresh enough that they can keep players and even get new ones despite being an old game. And they know that is very important to the viability of the game. When they are makin new ships or missions, they take a lot of effort in making it look good and better than what came before.
And if that means in the future they can leverage a more recent DirectX version that will give them features they need to make the game more beautiful and avoid making it outdated, that is just what they will do. It costs them some players, but it will keep them others, and it will gain them new ones.
But i do thank especially you, seaofsorrows, for hopefully understanding how i feel.
And once more, I apologize in advance.
As someone who is Autistic and Afraid Change, Particularly in Technology and certainly where PC/OS is Concerned, It tends to be really hard for me to accept even the possibility of having to make a potentially radical change in life.
I tend to hold off for so long on something because that's how afraid i am, especially if i don't like what may be next.
I don't like being Afraid, because obviously i may end up reacting a bit strongly, but it can't really be helped that much.
Especially when i believe these changes don't have to be mandatory/forced but rather voluntary or be allowed last longer.
Maybe things could have been better if they were different in that regard.
Regardless, I guess thanks anyway, sorry to anyone if there was any offense in my reaction to the potential changes that may end up happening.
--
On a side note, If anyone reading this believes they can sympathize/relate to my fears of Change and would care to talk about it off-forum, i think i may appreciate the talk if offered.
I am sure they are, but sometimes the reality is that it's good business overall to sacrifice a minority for the benefit of the majority. We can debate all day rather that policy is ethical or 'fair' but it would ultimately go nowhere. They are going to make the decision that best benefits the overall game, and while I am sympathetic to the plight of those excluded, I ultimately agree with Cryptic's decision.
You're very welcome, and for what it's worth.. I hope you're able to come to a solution. I am not a licensed mental health professional, but I would pose the possibility that maybe engaging in small acts of change can, over time, allow you to learn to adapt to bigger changes that life may bring.
What I, as a forum person without any type of license or formal education into your condition would suggest.. try not to think of this as a big change. It's honestly not, all you are doing is upgrading the operating system from 7 to 10. If you can perhaps learn to look at this as a minor thing, not a major life change.. maybe you can adapt to it better? There is also the added security that if you just can't work with Windows 10, it does have an option to revert back and there is always something like Classic Shell that can also be used.
The change doesn't have to be permanent, it can be rolled back. Perhaps that knowledge will give you the security to not find the change so daunting. Again though, I am a Mainframe Systems Analyst.. my Mother worked in the Mental Health field for many years, but sadly that type of expertise is not hereditary so I don't know jack.
Good luck to you with everything. I hope it works out for you.
As others have stated, I emphasize but in the end it was the right decision. This game doesn't even have enough resources and man power to add content like other MMOs do or fix bugs that have been in the game for numerous years. Not slagging the workers that ARE here working their tales off {thank you by the way), just stating the obvious. It's a small crew doing the best they can and running support for an old operating system is just added time and effort that could be used more efficiently elsewhere.
No matter what physical and or mental hindrances keep us from moving forward in life. In all cases the only option is to push through. I understand what you are saying about fear of change, I understand the degree of fear you experience could well be much more or less then another human being. Still it is a common human characteristic. We all fear change to some degree. Still the only option any of us have is to move forward. Nothing in life is stagnant.
Operating systems change. As you well know Windows 7 was replaced, and its replacement was replaced and now very shortly its replacement will also be replaced. The issue for Cryptic is continuing to support windows 7 means supporting a completely separate code path. A path they would be supporting for a very small % of their customers. Within that % many people using 7 are doing so by choice not necessity... for many users their is no technological hurdle to simply upgrading to 8 or 10.
OP you are well spoken and I am sure your post is sincere. All I can offer is push on and good luck, perhaps if upgrading your old machine is to much emotionally perhaps pick up a completely new system and slowly switch over. (or that you find some other personal solution) Change is the one constant we all share... we all have to find ways to cope with change. Stopping change is very rarely an actual option.
"Especially when i believe these changes don't have to be mandatory/forced but rather voluntary or be allowed last longer."
Its already been allowed to last longer. They have already made it last longer and given you a large grace time. Its just not financially possibly to make it voluntary. You acting like its free to make it voluntary or last longer and that just is not the case. Its just too expensive to keep going any longer and to risky. Who and how are they going to fund this extra time that you want? What about all the security and spyware problems that windows 7 will have going forward. Why should they have to open themselves up to that which can risk the rest of the company and all games they produce.
Not great advice, for your best security at the current time, upgrade to Windows 10.
It's also not possible to upgrade to 11 as it's not out yet.
Even with it's enhanced security features, Windows 11 will need to go through a break in period before it's sorted. I'll be running it on a secondary machine to test but if security is your top concern you are best staying with Windows 10 for the time being.
There are also a number of things like TMP 2.0 and Secure Boot requirements that will prohibit older PC's from even being eligible for upgrade to 11 at all.
Stick with Windows 10 for now.